From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Skinwalker]

Dark souls 3 has a better quest system.

These lies are unbearable. DS3 had some of the most bewildering quest triggers I have ever seen.

Example 1. Leonard keeps telling you to "give yourself to Rosaria" even after you've found Rosaria, joined her covenant, gave her tongues, did everything possible with her. Still "Come on, give yourself to Rosaria". THEN, much later in the game, after you beat Yhorm the Giant (who has jack shit to do with Leonard), Leonard's quest automatically progresses.

Example 2. The lady knight appears in Firelink Shrine and politely tells you she wants nothing to do with you. Ok, weird. Then you never see her for the rest of the game again. Huh. Then, after you've finished the game, you find out that she will vanish from your playthrough if you ever interact with Rosaria, even though there is literally nothing to indicate this in her initial dialogue. If you happen to not interact with Rosaria long enough, she appears again, warns you that she doesn't like Rosaria (you should have said that from the start!!), and has an entire questline culminating in an extra boss fight.

Thanks, FromSoftware!

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Dark souls 3 has a better quest system.

These lies are unbearable. DS3 had some of the most bewildering quest triggers I have ever seen.

Example 1. Leonard keeps telling you to "give yourself to Rosaria" even after you've found Rosaria, joined her covenant, gave her tongues, did everything possible with her. Still "Come on, give yourself to Rosaria". THEN, much later in the game, after you beat Yhorm the Giant (who has jack shit to do with Leonard), Leonard's quest automatically progresses.

Example 2. The lady knight appears in Firelink Shrine and politely tells you she wants nothing to do with you. Ok, weird. Then you never see her for the rest of the game again. Huh. Then, after you've finished the game, you find out that she will vanish from your playthrough if you ever interact with Rosaria, even though there is literally nothing to indicate this in her initial dialogue. If you happen to not interact with Rosaria long enough, she appears again, warns you that she doesn't like Rosaria (you should have said that from the start!!), and has an entire questline culminating in an extra boss fight.

Thanks, FromSoftware!

You are correct, that is all bullshit and annoying.

Now tell me how you're supposed to figure out Millicent's quest line. Without a wiki she's impossible to find and often expects you to go to areas you've already finished. The castle owner guy's quest was unfinished for months the same way Patches is/was. Dark souls 3 quests are bullshit but they're not unfinished and waiting to be patched in.

 

[Skinwalker]

Now tell me how you're supposed to figure out Millicent's quest line. Without a wiki she's impossible to find and often expects you to go to areas you've already finished.

I've followed Millicent's quest line to the end without any wiki. I suppose there's an element of randomness to it, depending on which areas you've already explored before beginning her questline. For me, she always appeared in the new areas that I had explored, so it worked out fine.

A far more bewildering example is finding a second Sorceress Selen imprisoned in a random dungeon, and then having no way to interact with her or ask why there's two of them, until much later in the game when you find an ancient sorcerer that progresses her quest line. Either add some reactivity in the dialogue, or don't reveal the double until it becomes relevant in the questline. Also, apparently the jester-looking guy in Caelid castle was involved in this questline and had a whole second ending to it, but there was nothing indicating that, so I totally missed out on it.

Elden Ring quests aren't much better than DS3.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The Souls formula is tired as hell and needs some sort of mixup to keep it fresh. FS made the same game repeatedly since 2009.

I felt the open world helped with that a lot. The problem is that they should've pared it down to like a third to a half of the length and used the extra time to make better content instead of cookie cutter mines and such with different mobs.

Yes, the fundamental problem with Elden Ring is not the Open World itself but that the entire game is about as long as all three Dark Souls games combined. The number of mini-dungeons could have been cut in half, and similarly with certain repetitive content existing in the exterior of the Open World, accompanied by some compression in the area of the overworld, and the result would have been a far stronger game with much more replayability.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I've done SL1 Elden Ring and I can assure you Elden ring does have a bunch of bullshit. Especially if you played early release and not-baby mode current patches. They had to drastically change duo boss fights AI because they would give you unavoidable damage situations. It's not a skill issue when the game is clearly balanced around weapon arts and people who like the traditional souls combat aren't happy with Morgot swinging 20 hit combos at you and input reading your healing. And he's the first boss the game leads you to despite him gate keeping what is essentially the middle of the game.

I think the focus on weapon arts is making people lose sight of the fact within the scope of what you call "traditional Souls" combat you still have a wide range of tools that you ARE expected to use. Stance breaking, jumping, parrying (this is more or less a mandatory tool now), blocking + guard counters, learning to get around hyperarmor etc. If you are thinking you can just make due by dodge rolling everything that's where you are failing, not the least because at this point the timing for dodge rolling isn't actually any easier than the one for parry, and i'm not talking about the long combos either:



Notice the obvious parry clue when Morgott pulls out his big hammer but lounges at you with the sword first, which usually is the prelude for a long winded combo. The fact you can stop that in its tracks with a well timed parry IS the intended way to do it. Notice also how i was able to just sidestep the second long combo by moving behind him. I don't see how the combat changed a whole lot from what Souls was always about, it just got more complicated because of all the mechanics they introduced over the years. It's not a matter of reflexes, it's still fundamentally a question of skill.

As for the inclusion of stuff like ashes of war, spirit ashes or various status effects and tools, none of that stuff is mandatory for bosses. I do think the multiple boss fights were likely intended to be countered by spirit ashes. I think the AI nerf for a lot of them was too much and unwarranted if that's the case, but it's not like fighting them legit without spirit ashes was particularly fun before those patches:



Probably did it wrong by not parrying the spear crystallian but in my first playthrough i still didn't understand parry was meant to be used as a standard tool and it's no longer the "high risk, high reward" optional tool it was in past Souls games. Some enemies proved to be exceptionally difficult because i still had to realize i was supposed to use ALL the tools at my disposal. I died to that dual wielding knight in Castle Sol so damn much until i realized i was just supposed to either parry him or use guard counters with a bouncy shield. Guard counters almost make other difficult enemies much easier to manage, like those annoying insects, or the birds.

BTW, a lot of those tools were also intended to make certain parts of the game less boring. Why fight those lobsters over and over when you can just put them to sleep and move on. That too is part of the game and i was completely fine with that. They even beg you do it by showing you sleeping lobsters or bears. People who rage it takes 20 minutes to kill a bear for basically no reward apparently didn't actually get the memo that you weren't supposed to fight them at all for the most part.

Ultimately, all of this comes down to the fact that Elden Ring isn't just an action game, but also an RPG.

 

[Skinwalker]

Why fight those lobsters over and over when you can just put them to sleep and move on.

Put them to sleep with what?!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why fight those lobsters over and over when you can just put them to sleep and move on.

Put them to sleep with what?!

Erm, sleep?

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Sleep

I made a video where i basically killed them with sleep but you don't have to. Takes couple of hits with the St. Trina sword then you can just ride away into the sunset if you want:



Same with bears:

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Ultimately, all of this comes down to the fact that Elden Ring isn't just an action game, but also an RPG.

So we're clear. I did Elden ring at SL1. I know the game pretty damn well all things considering. I have never parried a single boss in Elden ring. Not even one once. Never will. There's no point when you can dodge everything and it takes less time to learn and gets you through the game fine.

The problem is From have a very narrow formula and instead of mixing things up they limited your options. Elden Ring is very clearly balanced around using summon ashes and weapon arts. There are utter bullshit bosses doing insane garbage and it's obvious they intended you to always be fighting them 2 on 1 with the ashes because they're all anime bullshit now. It creates it's own set of problems because From still haven't fixed their awful AI when multiple players/summons are involved. A game with summons in mind should have seen improved boss AI to handle multiple foes and they didn't fix the AI. They just added larger swings and longer combos to compensate. And the worst part is, From's AI is STILL broken from Demon's souls. You can fight the same boss and get radically different levels of aggression. Berserker AI that never stops attacking or really passive AI that barely attacks can be two fights back to back. Something there is clearly fucked beyond belief and like every other From problem has not been fixed.

Elden Ring still lacks any sort of real combo system. There's no interesting ways for weapons to interact. They all effectively do the exact same thing. Dodging is the only game in town in Elden Ring. Stance breaking is something that randomly happens (I know there's math) when you whack something. Hyper armour randomly happens and gets you an unfair hit against you when you whack something. Dark souls is at this point as bad as Bethesda games in terms of depth. There's infinite items you can use and weapons but.. I still have to whack you to death and dodge your attacks by hitting circle. That's it. Animations different but in terms of raw gameplay nothing changes here. Every weapon is the same very small set of moves. I couldn't get into Nioh but at least that tried to do something deeper than R1 spam and dodge timing.

Oh I forgot "you're not supposed to fight the giant bears!" Sure. Fill your game with loads of enemies you make annoying to fight and have way too much health. That's a fucking GREAT idea. I fucking love the Ogres and Lobsters in the sewer. 10/10 experience right there. This isn't a red eyes knight, it's bullshit and it's not acceptable to make stuff annoying to fight so you avoid it and go "lol hard game". Because it's not hard, it's just tedious to fight a giant health bar over and over.

I got a rune bear as the last boss in a randomised run. It was genuinely difficult even with a late game build. And that enemy is from a starting area with an essential quest line starting there if you want to see all the games content (and most people naturally ended up doing it).

 

[Lyric Suite]

Rolling in this game is in no way easier than parrying because of the delayed attacks and wayward patterns of enemies. If you can time the roll on that jump slam that cat statue does, you can time the parry too. There's literally no difference, and there's many enemies that are rendered MUCH easier with parry, like the Crucible Knights:



Parry is also less risky in this game because you can have buckler parry frames on a 100% dmg reduction medium shield. It's less risky than ever, why not do it.

Sure you can play the game with rolling only, but don't complain if some bosses appear to be BULLSHIT when in reality you just chose to play the game wrong.

Ho, you are also wrong about stance breaking being "random". I always knew when it was coming (like in the second Morgott video i posted), so there's obviously a build up meter like with everything else. Hyperarmor isn't random either, and you can learn when it comes on and when it doesn't.

Like i said, it all comes down to a skill issue. The game wants you to use proper counters and tools. Big deal. It's called strategy, which is exactly what one would expect in an RPG. In a way this is one of the best things about Elden Ring, especially considering all the damn enemy repetition.

As for skipping enemies, are you serious bro? It's an open world game of course you may wanna want to skip enemies, if anything just to avoid tedium. Check that 10 minute bear video i just posted. Are you REALLY going to tell me you actually went to the trouble of killing all the bears in that area? Why? I only did it for the video lmao who the fuck would normally want to do that.

 

[Silva]

The Souls formula is tired as hell and needs some sort of mixup to keep it fresh. FS made the same game repeatedly since 2009.

I felt the open world helped with that a lot. The problem is that they should've pared it down to like a third to a half of the length and used the extra time to make better content instead of cookie cutter mines and such with different mobs.

Yes, the fundamental problem with Elden Ring is not the Open World itself but that the entire game is about as long as all three Dark Souls games combined. The number of mini-dungeons could have been cut in half, and similarly with certain repetitive content existing in the exterior of the Open World, accompanied by some compression in the area of the overworld, and the result would have been a far stronger game with much more replayability.

It's no just a matter of size but content. Exploration is completely random, you waste 1 hour combing a tomb to find a doube handed axe that has nothing to do with your mage build. Or you kill the 10th gaol enemy to give a magical wand to your barbarian. There's no clue whatsoever of whats to be found, while traditional DS level-based format gave you thematic levels with linked items, so the "mage" level would give you mage items, etc. This keeps more or less true in Elden's legacy dungeons but everywhere else is big random map full of random shit.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Even more terrible plot then the plot about timelines and worlds merging together because everything is going to shit? Where every storyline is a metaphor about Miyazaki not wanting to make these games anymore? Where almost every enemy is a Bloodborne recycled asset that's colored grey from head to toe with long gangly limbs?

DS3 has exactly 0 aspects where it is better than Elden Ring. And just proof that "gamers" in general don't have any grasp about what is beautiful, artistic or elegant or why that should even matter.

Dark Souls 3 has a better ending than Elden Ring, if nothing else:

The First Flame quickly fades.
Darkness will shortly settle.
But one day, tiny flames will dance across the darkness.
Like embers, linked by lords past.

Ashen One, hearest thou my voice, still?

...

You can select an avatar of a halfling, such as this one under D&D Art - Clyde Caldwell:

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Parry is also less risky in this game because you can have buckler parry frames on a 100% dmg reduction medium shield. It's less risky than ever, why not do it.

Sure you can play the game with rolling only, but don't complain if some bosses appear to be BULLSHIT when in reality you just chose to play the game wrong.

I can just.. not be where the attack is and that's much easier than learning parry timing and having to use a specific piece of equipment. The game forcing you to use specific strategies is bullshit when no other souls game has ever done that.

Ho, you are also wrong about stance breaking being "random". I always knew when it was coming (like in the second Morgott video i posted), so there's obviously a build up meter like with everything else. Hyperarmor isn't random either, and you can learn when it comes on and when it doesn't.

I've seen illusionary wall's videos. I know exactly how this stuff works. In the real world you can't rely on stance breaking to happen. You hit stuff and some times it staggers. You hit stuff and some times it goes into a move with hyper armour before you connect.

Like i said, it all comes down to a skill issue. The game wants you to use proper counters and tools. Big deal. It's called strategy, which is exactly what one would expect in an RPG. In a way this is one of the best things about Elden Ring, especially considering all the damn enemy repetition.

The strategy of summoning spirits and spamming the shit out of weapon arts is what the game is designed around.

As for skipping enemies, are you serious bro? It's an open world game of course you may wanna want to skip enemies, if anything just to avoid tedium. Check that 10 minute bear video i just posted. Are you REALLY going to tell me you actually went to the trouble of killing all the bears in that area? Why? I only did it for the video lmao who the fuck would normally want to do that.

Are you serious bro? Why would you kill enemies that look like mini bosses in a game with exclusive loot for mini boss kills?

I also mentioned it in the Sewer where the ogres and lobsters are extremely powerful and protect a mid-game boss. But that must be my fault for not using my extremely limited supply of sleep consumables or equipping the 1 sword in the game doing sleep build up instead of a weapon I enjoy using.

You think you're being so super smart because you have all this niche ways of beating enemies. But literally no one uses them because rolling and hitting them is the optimal strategy. A big flaw with souls games being 'le RPGs' is you never have enough resources to use the RPG elements. I only have enough upgrade material to upgrade 1 weapon to keep up with the world progression. It's not like say monster hunter where I can make a fire sword and an ice sword. I'm stuck with my +5 halberd and any upgrade material I find is making a +6 halberd. Anything else is a downgrade so the RPG elements go out the window. Infinite options, zero depth.

Souls games are bad RPGS, after Dark souls 2 they became bad adventure games and even worse action games. They are effectively on par with Pokemon now in terms of rehashing outdated systems but adding a new gimmick each time. They're serviceable games if you can look past the 6 games worth of broken garbage From either can't or won't fix. Unless you want to excuse enemies hitting you through walls for some reason

You can select an avatar of a halfling, such as this one under D&D Art - Clyde Caldwell:

Oh I know. I'm not the kind of fag that would associate with adult play pretend. I like robots.

Thank you though.

 

[Skinwalker]

I made a video where i basically killed them with sleep but you don't have to. Takes couple of hits with the St. Trina sword then you can just ride away into the sunset if you want:

That bear did not take just a couple of hits. I hadn't found much use for sleep when I played, because... you can just run away from giant lobsters and bears without putting them to sleep...

 

[Dadd]

Every Souls game after Dark Souls 2 has been faggoty pseudo-melancholy grimdark soulless garbage not worth playing, and I blame redditors who memed the "difficulty" into reality and VaatiVidya's mumbling clickbait trash that interpreted all Souls lore as mysterious sad cry shit

 

[Lyric Suite]

I can just.. not be where the attack is and that's much easier than learning parry timing and having to use a specific piece of equipment.

You think it's easier to dodge roll this guy than to parry him?

The game forcing you to use specific strategies is bullshit when no other souls game has ever done that.

How would you know? It's clear you never tried. I already posted an example of how parry made the Corvian guys easier. Gundyr too:



Even in Dark Souls Gywn is famously easier if you parry him. Artorias is also easier if you stagger him during his power up animation, and Manus requires an item to block one of his attacks if you have medium roll instead of fast roll.

Keep in mind that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls and i think this idea of having "counters" for certain attacks is precisely one of the ways they tried to make the experience of this game somewhat unique to itself.

Can you beat the game by relying on rolling only? Sure, but why limit yourself so much. I'd personally try different approaches if anything to avoid the sheer boredom of having to fight the same boss over and over in the same exact way.

In the real world you can't rely on stance breaking to happen.

Dude who cares about the real world. This is an arcade action RPG.

The strategy of summoning spirits and spamming the shit out of weapon arts is what the game is designed around.

Not really, no. You just failed to get good and learn the game properly.

Are you serious bro? Why would you kill enemies that look like mini bosses in a game with exclusive loot for mini boss kills?

The game makes it obvious that you are not supposed to engage them if you can help it the first time you fall for the trap in Patches cave. You literally find the bears already sleeping, and at that point in the game you are likely not powerful enough to engage them to begin with, which should "imprint" the idea they are best left alone.

But that must be my fault for not using my extremely limited supply of sleep consumables or equipping the 1 sword in the game doing sleep build up instead of a weapon I enjoy using.

It's an RPG. Who cares what you "enjoy" using just pick the best tool for the job. It's called strategy.

I'm also not saying you should ALWAYS skip them but if the opportunity is there why not take it. Why bother fighting the lobsters in the open areas if you don't have to.

But literally no one uses them because rolling and hitting them is the optimal strategy.

If it was there wouldn't be an endless litary of retards complaining incessantly that the game is bullshit and that you must cheat or cheese your way through its challenges to beat it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I made a video where i basically killed them with sleep but you don't have to. Takes couple of hits with the St. Trina sword then you can just ride away into the sunset if you want:

That bear did not take just a couple of hits.

It's three or four i think. Keep in mind i was SL1 with a +4 St. Trina sword. I would assume in a "normal" run it should be easier. You can also use the weapon's art to increase its sleep build up.

I hadn't found much use for sleep when I played, because... you can just run away from giant lobsters and bears without putting them to sleep...

Is it really that easy? Both the bears and the lobsters have ranged attacks. Lobsters in particular have that absurd laser beam spit that can hit you with extreme accuracy at great distances.

Not saying it's invariably always easier to put them to sleep, but hey, it's an option.

 

[Silva]

Lyric Suit my man, trying to convince someone that an enemy is manageable while linking videos of a Chinese no-life like Ongbal parrying him eyes closed with only one hand, is not really helping your case.

 

[Dadd]

Memorizing numerous unintuitive enemy attack patterns is not an interesting part of skillful gameplay.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lyric Suit my man, trying to convince someone that an enemy is manageable while linking videos of a Chinese no-life like Ongbal parrying him eyes closed with only one hand, is not really helping your case.

When i played DS3 i found rolling to be much more difficult than parrying with Gundyr. As far as i remember, that wasn't just me he is notoriously easier if you parry his attacks, kinda like Gwyn.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Memorizing numerous unintuitive enemy attack patterns is not an interesting part of skillful gameplay.

Except it is and i love it.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

You think it's easier to dodge roll this guy than to parry him?

I think it's easier to stand on a ledge he can't hit you on and shoot him to death with arrows. Which is the optimal way to beat him if you're a sad sack of shit who thinks an enemy like this belongs in a souls game. DMC? Fine. Souls? Absolutely fucking not and I refuse to fight enemies like him the same with the Corvians.

Manus requires an item to block one of his attacks if you have medium roll instead of fast roll.

I only use medium roll and I never needed the pendant to beat manus. Get good kid, learn to space your rolls trololololol. That's the argument right? Git gud if your solution isn't my solution?

Keep in mind that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls and i think this idea of having "counters" for certain attacks is precisely one of the ways they tried to make the experience of this game somewhat unique to itself.

Elden Ring is Dark souls the same way Dark souls is Demon's souls. A change of name doesn't mean shit when it's the same engine and half the enemies and items are the exact same.

The game makes it obvious that you are not supposed to engage them if you can help it the first time you fall for the trap in Patches cave. You literally find the bears already sleeping, and at that point in the game you are likely not powerful enough to engage them to begin with, which should "imprint" the idea they are best left alone.

Excuse me, did you just assume my first sexual encounter with a bear is the same as yours? I will have you know I didn't find Patches cave until after I reached Atlus and I ran into several bears who fisted me pretty hard in mist wood. You know that area you get to if you follow a main road in the newbie area. The game is BAD at teaching you not to fight bears when you see a giant bear defending a staircase you can get down without hitting him and can't get out of without hitting him.

If it was there wouldn't be an endless litary of retards complaining incessantly that the game is bullshit and that you must cheat or cheese your way through its challenges to beat it.

You do realize every From game has bullshit right? I would love for you to defend the hit boxes in some of this games grabs. A problem From has had since at least Dark souls. The big demonic snake thing with a skull head who's name I can't recall right now can grab you even if you dodge clear out of the actual animation. There's also Radagon having specific moves line up that force you to take damage. I've beaten every souls game except Bloodborne at SL1 and I'm very aware of what the games can and can't do. I've parried bosses and used specific boss weakness items to get through. None of it amounts to shit because the games are not designed to let you use those tools in any reasonable way. You equip the biggest numbers you can to keep the roll you want and then hit enemies until they die and that's it. I'm doing a Crossbow only run of Dark souls 1 right now and I genuinely am having a very similar experience to my usual melee only runs because the game is extremely basic and the only reason they're special is the exploration. Which Elden ring does worst of any souls game.

Memorizing numerous unintuitive enemy attack patterns is not an interesting part of skillful gameplay.

Correct. Figuring out the narrow window using a specific item so you can get a free critical hit isn't interesting.

Lyric Suit my man, trying to convince someone that an enemy is manageable while linking videos of a Chinese no-life like Ongbal parrying him eyes closed with only one hand, is not really helping your case.

When i played DS3 i found rolling to be much more difficult than parrying with Gundyr. As far as i remember, that wasn't just me he is notoriously easier if you parry his attacks, kinda like Gwyn.

Then you're retarded. Gundyr is really easy to roll to avoid and easy enough to parry. If you find parrying easier than rolling then you seriously have mental issues. Roll windows are significantly larger and less punishing than taking a hit from a bad parry is. They're also timed to fit with melee attacks, so you get 1-2 hits and have to roll again. Bosses are synced up to these windows and are not synced to parries at all.

Memorizing numerous unintuitive enemy attack patterns is not an interesting part of skillful gameplay.

Except it is an i love it.

I see, you're autistic. Have you tried playing Euro truck sim instead?

 

[Silverfish]

terrible NPC quests

Only if you do what you're supposed to. Greirat's quest had one of DS3's few laugh out loud moments, when after informing him that Loretta is dead and he tells you to keep the ring you were meant to deliver to her, you can sell it back to him via his vendor menu.

When i played DS3 i found rolling to be much more difficult than parrying with Gundyr.

Yeah, he abuses delays to catch rolling way too much. Parrying or, if you've got the stats, turtling with a strong enough greatshield work wonders.

I think it's easier to stand on a ledge he can't hit you on and shoot him to death with arrows.

A real DS fan would have used poison arrows.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

A real DS fan would have used poison arrows.

Can you poison him? He's a ghost so I assume not. Some of us aren't wiki whores like SOMEONE writing an essay length post right now.

 

[Dadd]

HP bloat is a significant problem underlying enemies' delayed roll-catch attacks. If enemies didn't have huge HP pools they wouldn't have the luxury of delaying almost every single attack while tanking hits.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You think it's easier to dodge roll this guy than to parry him?

I think it's easier to stand on a ledge he can't hit you on and shoot him to death with arrows. Which is the optimal way to beat him if you're a sad sack of shit who thinks an enemy like this belongs in a souls game. DMC? Fine. Souls? Absolutely fucking not

Imagine thinking doing this is too difficult: