From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lutte]

Die, Lutte.

This is why fromsoft has the most retarded fanbase in existence. Imagine being this buttmad because your little game has aspects that don't please everyone.

Don't worry, Librul, you'll die of starvation before I die of old age.

We're not buttmad. We're simply aware of the fact that we have superior taste in games than everybody else. We have the right to be snobby. Go back to playing your degenerate gay infested western RPGs.

This is what I mean by the most retarded fanbase. I've played every single souls game to completion, along with sekiro and BB. I like most of them, and in fact I like much of what I found in Elden Ring and stated as much in this thread (like the classic dungeons, most bosses etc). But I'm being told to "go back to playing your degenerate gay western RPGs" by a 15yo edgelord. Because, of course, From can never do a single wrong thing, ever. Elden Ring is the absolute, most perfect game in existence. It's 10/10, KYS if you don't think like it is, amiright?

 

[Skinwalker]

 

[Silverfish]

Those are two of the longest run-on sentences I've ever seen.

You're welcome.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Because, of course, From can never do a single wrong thing, ever. Elden Ring is the absolute, most perfect game in existence. It's 10/10, KYS if you don't think like it is, amiright?

Don't put words in my mouth, chump. I been shitting on Elden Ring alot lately (mainly in comparisons involving Dragon's Dogma 2). I've always shit on Dark Souls 3 and I'm not a huge fan of Sekiro. I just think you're a retard for trying to compare Elden Ring to fucking Ubisoft games which are bottom of the barrel trash.

 

[Silverfish]

I just think you're a retard for trying to compare Elden Ring to fucking Ubisoft games which are bottom of the barrel trash.

They're so bad that Fromsoftware felt the need to borrow their shit to make their most successful game to date.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I only have a cursory knowledge of Ubishit games, but from what little i've seen their brand of open world has jack shit to do with Elden Ring.

Ubifuck games feel like they came out of an assembly line. You can complain all you want about the recycling in Elden Ring but there's nothing that feels as inorganic and cut and paste as Ubifag open world shit. This is a problem with a lot of modern games in general but Ubicock is particularly bad with this, which is, everything feels very "gamey", there's no possibility of immersion because it's all just routine busywork masquering or LARPing as a game or living world.

Elden Ring at times feels as if Golden Axe was an open world 3D RPG, but the open areas are all distinct and everything you find in them feels hand placed and organic to the enviorment, even if there's an element that is arcadish to it. Like i said many times, Elden Ring's open world is only "bad" (or underwhelming) when compared with the traditional Dark Souls level design, which can still be found in the legacy dungeons of Elden Ring itself. But compared to modern AAA slopt, i had a far, FAR better time with Elden Ring.

Lutte rightfully pointed out Elden Ring doesn't feel hand crafted and does feel copy and pasted. Every area has the same assets used for it's dungeons. They all have a mine, they all have graves, they all have catacombs and they don't feel unique or hand crafted to be special. Reusing bosses repeatedly makes it feel very copy and pastedi.

If the areas are so distinct then why does so much of the early game look exactly the same? Why do we have multiple Nox cities and how unique are they do each other?

You do this exact same song and dance while frothing at the mouth every time someone points out Elden Ring is shitty and would have been better without the open world. You ignore everything said, defend Elden Ring no matter what and then go "why can no one tell me the flaws!!?!?!?!?!?!" as if watching a horse's asshole for 50 hours of a 120 hour game isn't a big enough flaw to be worth considering. If the map was so unique and special only an artist could create it then why didn't they design ways to traverse it outside of jumping down tombs (generic and used in a few places so not unique and hand crafted) or making your horse fart so hard it flies into the sky? If this is what hand crafted looks like I'd rather go back to Star field. At least I got a jet pack there.

 

[Terenty]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Unreal Tournament jump points throughout the map, totally organic and completely not out of place

 

[smaug]

I only have a cursory knowledge of Ubishit games, but from what little i've seen their brand of open world has jack shit to do with Elden Ring.

Ubifuck games feel like they came out of an assembly line. You can complain all you want about the recycling in Elden Ring but there's nothing that feels as inorganic and cut and paste as Ubifag open world shit. This is a problem with a lot of modern games in general but Ubicock is particularly bad with this, which is, everything feels very "gamey", there's no possibility of immersion because it's all just routine busywork masquering or LARPing as a game or living world.

Elden Ring at times feels as if Golden Axe was an open world 3D RPG, but the open areas are all distinct and everything you find in them feels hand placed and organic to the enviorment, even if there's an element that is arcadish to it. Like i said many times, Elden Ring's open world is only "bad" (or underwhelming) when compared with the traditional Dark Souls level design, which can still be found in the legacy dungeons of Elden Ring itself. But compared to modern AAA slopt, i had a far, FAR better time with Elden Ring.

Demon Souls already did everything good with the formula for Dark Souls and this series has never went beyond that. Elden Ring just did DS design dirty by having a filler pointless open world for no reason. Also, lol at people defending the open world because “muh Witcher 3 and Ubisoft games” so bad design isn’t bad anymore lmao you guys are absolute fags

 

[Damned Registrations]

What is this ever-elusive "Open-world with no Ubisoft-isms" platonic ideal of a game that lives in your heads?!

There's this obscure game most people on this forum haven't heard of called Fallout that was pretty cool. Also Might and Magic, Arcanum, Wizardry, Ultima...

 

[Skinwalker]

Lots of kvetching going on itt.

There's this obscure game most people on this forum haven't heard of called Fallout that was pretty cool. Also Might and Magic, Arcanum, Wizardry, Ultima...

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lutte rightfully pointed out Elden Ring doesn't feel hand crafted and does feel copy and pasted.

No, it does not.

Every area has the same assets used for it's dungeons

So?

It's a variation on a theme. That's not the same as literally copy/pasting the same prefabs like Ubisuck games do.

and they don't feel unique or hand crafted

To the contrary, the layout of each is unique to itself, and as you progress forward, each of them also has a new gimmick. They are basically minature legacy dungeons.

Reusing bosses repeatedly makes it feel very copy and pastedi.

Boss recycling is indeed an issue, but i'll say the bigger problem is that there doesn't appear to be any particular logic to boss placement.

Personally, i think a better way to go about it would have been to have randomized bosses for the caves and catacombs (obviously not for the major bosses). Also, the game needed more "themed" variants of the same boss. We get a rotten Ulcerated Tree Spirit in Dragonbarrow, we should have gotten a frozen one in the Mountaintops of Giants and so forth.

If the areas are so distinct then why does so much of the early game look exactly the same?

Because the early game is all set in the same area?

Why do we have multiple Nox cities and how unique are they do each other?

There's only one Nox city.

You do this exact same song and dance while frothing at the mouth every time someone points out Elden Ring is shitty and would have been better without the open world.

It's more that you people don't actually have valid arguments and are just mouthing off retarded shit that makes no sense. Case in point:

If the map was so unique and special only an artist could create it then why didn't they design ways to traverse it outside of jumping down tombs (generic and used in a few places so not unique and hand crafted) or making your horse fart so hard it flies into the sky? If this is what hand crafted looks like I'd rather go back to Star field. At least I got a jet pack there.

I don't even know WTF are you even asking here.

There are concrete problems with the game but it's uncanny how you guys always miss the mark and keep screeching about retarded shit that makes no sense. It's not that i have a compulsion to defend the game at every turn, i just can't stand people making stupid arguments.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Unreal Tournament jump points throughout the map, totally organic and completely not out of place

It's an arcade game there's nothing out of place about it.

 

[Lutte]

It's an arcade game there's nothing out of place about it.

Haha. How far we've come into the mcdonaldisation of Fromsoft that you would think like that, when one of their strongest point is how they always paid attention to detail and cared to craft a world that made sense within the confines of its gameplay mechanics. Sure, the souls like any other game have some gamey elements, as games will always need concessions to be good games and pure realism isn't a good thing. But how many games even bother making sense of the player's ability to respawn in it/reload a save the way the souls games did? The immortality of the undead, the bonfires, the firekeepers etc all feature lore just to explain this very question. It's a core part of the setting and it was entirely crafted because they wanted to answer just that question. Hollowisation exists to explain why those immortals became mindless (or crazy) enough to become foes that must be slain when they cross your path. The setting, at the core, exists to make sense of why the game is a game.

In most video games when you fight against a supposedly intelligent (not bestial style) dragon they will always let you smack them in melee on the ground for.. reasons? why even bother trying to explain why the Dragon's IQ dropped and thought today was a good day to die instead of just flying in circles around you and breathing fire on you or pelting you with rocks.

Dark Souls 1 thought this was something that needed an answer.

So there you enlist the help of a giant to shoot an arrow that's more like a goddamn missile into the dragon's wing to hurt it enough that it can't indefinitely stay in the air. DS1's designers had people who gave a shit.

It is attention to the world like this that made Souls games great. Not just the level design, or the well balanced combat.

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Fromsoft makes arcade game? you've not played a real arcade game since forever, have you?
They have some elements of arcade philosophy in gameplay design (like repeating some of the content being the punishment for failure, not giving you user controlled quicksave/quickload mechanism etc) but they're no arcade games. Arcade games don't let you gear up your way into turning challenges into easy mode. They're still RPGs at the core, despite the action mechanics. Levelling the right stats completely changes your approach to the game, as will your choice of weapons or spells, or the choice of going soul level 1 to omit some the benefits of the RPGness of those games and make them behave more like highly punishing action games.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I like Lyric Suite's style. He fights like old man, nothing held back. A little autistic but good man.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Lutte can jump off a cliff.

Nobody likes you. You know that right?

 

[Odoryuk]

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Tell me why gamey elements that don't ruin the immersion and atmosphere are bad. There's tons of gamey element in their games since Demon's Souls and the fact that some of these elements are explained and incorporated into the world (like dying and respawning, multiplayer, etc.) doesn't mean they have to come with some convoluted answers to every gameplay element.

 

[gabel]

Every area has the same assets used for it's dungeons

So?

It's a variation on a theme. That's not the same as literally copy/pasting the same prefabs like Ubisuck games do.

and they don't feel unique or hand crafted

To the contrary, the layout of each is unique to itself, and as you progress forward, each of them also has a new gimmick. They are basically minature legacy dungeons.

 

[Terenty]

It's a variation on a theme. That's not the same as literally copy/pasting the same prefabs like Ubisuck games do.

Let's see: prefab giant pulling a cart, prefab walking bell, prefab church ruins, prefab ruins with a chest in the cellar, prefab evergaols, prefab minor Erdtress and their bosses and I'm sure I missed something else.

And every cave and catacomb has the same recognizable tiles only placed in different order that's why they feel so painfully artificial

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Tell me why gamey elements that don't ruin the immersion and atmosphere are bad. There's tons of gamey element in their games since Demon's Souls and the fact that some of these elements are explained and incorporated into the world (like dying and respawning, multiplayer, etc.) doesn't mean they have to come with some convoluted answers to every gameplay element.

Sure, those elements don't need clear in-world logic behind them
And yeah the lack of such answers doesn't affect game design
But it shows that From no longer cares for their craft and worldbuilding like they did some years back, which is Lutte's point
Which is a sad loss because that dedication was indeed one of the highligths of Fromsoft
So yes, the lack of such care does end up hurting immersion, as those more gamey elements no longer have sensible reasons to allow suspension of disbelief

 

[Odoryuk]

But it shows that From no longer cares for their craft and worldbuilding like they did some years back, which is Lutte's point

It doesn't show it in the slightest, as there's a lot of small and clever world building things in Elden Ring, as it was in Sekiro and Dark Souls 3 before.

So yes, the lack of such care does end up hurting immersion, as those more gamey elements no longer have sensible reasons to allow suspension of disbelief

Remember when back in the days people hated inventory weight limit, and then FromSoftware removed it? And now players can hoard literal tons of heavyweight demon hammers and other shit and it doesn't affect their movement at all. And don't tell me about Botomless Box, you can access that only at checkpoints. This stuff is gamey as hell and exist since Dark Souls 1.

I'd rather jump very high on my steed at special points to get to elevated territory than "naturally" climb it, like in modern Zelda games.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Don't hate on the new Zelda games. As a matter of fact they influenced Elden Ring a great deal.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Tell me why gamey elements that don't ruin the immersion and atmosphere are bad. There's tons of gamey element in their games since Demon's Souls and the fact that some of these elements are explained and incorporated into the world (like dying and respawning, multiplayer, etc.) doesn't mean they have to come with some convoluted answers to every gameplay element.

Sure, those elements don't need clear in-world logic behind them
And yeah the lack of such answers doesn't affect game design
But it shows that From no longer cares for their craft and worldbuilding like they did some years back, which is Lutte's point
Which is a sad loss because that dedication was indeed one of the highligths of Fromsoft
So yes, the lack of such care does end up hurting immersion, as those more gamey elements no longer have sensible reasons to allow suspension of disbelief

Armored Core 6 just released late last year, assholes. Calm your tits. Not every game they make is gonna be Elden Ring type shit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Except we have multiple examples of storm or wind based effects or abilities in the game. The Banished Knights create vortex of wind to leap on you and there's that whole wind theme going with Stormveil and the hawks etc.

I'm assuming they likely designed Stormhill/Limgrave first and those springs were supposed to be related to the whole wind theme going on with the area but then dropped any lore reference since they needed the springs anywhere else in the game as well.

Fromsoft makes arcade game? you've not played a real arcade game since forever, have you? They have some elements of arcade philosophy in gameplay design (like repeating some of the content being the punishment for failure, not giving you user controlled quicksave/quickload mechanism etc) but they're no arcade games. Arcade games don't let you gear up your way into turning challenges into easy mode. They're still RPGs at the core, despite the action mechanics. Levelling the right stats completely changes your approach to the game, as will your choice of weapons or spells, or the choice of going soul level 1 to omit some the benefits of the RPGness of those games and make them behave more like highly punishing action games.

The fact they have RPG elements doesn't mean a lot of the lifeblood of those game doesn't relate to arcade games. FromSoft doesn't make western RPGs. Their games are fairly grounded and immersive in their own way and that's one of the reasons i prefer them over the more actiony stuff like DMC, Monster Hunter etc, but their games are still rooted in that Japanese action tradition where what feels good mechanically usually trumps any consideration of realism.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's a variation on a theme. That's not the same as literally copy/pasting the same prefabs like Ubisuck games do.

Let's see: prefab giant pulling a cart, prefab walking bell, prefab church ruins, prefab ruins with a chest in the cellar, prefab evergaols, prefab minor Erdtress and their bosses and I'm sure I missed something else.

Some repeated elements are to be expected in an open world game, but it's still not the same as in Ubitarded games.

People keep saying Zelda was an influence in Elden Ring. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those repeated elements take inspiration from that since like i said to me it feel rather arcadish.

And every cave and catacomb has the same recognizable tiles only placed in different order that's why they feel so painfully artificial

No, disagree entirely with this. The caves and catacombs have the same elements as big legacy dungeons, just on a much smaller scale. To say they are all the same with some minor variations in layout is an outright lie. Maybe at first it feels that way but by the time you get to shit like the Auriza Side Tomb you should have a clear idea of what FromSoft is doing with those places.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Tell me why gamey elements that don't ruin the immersion and atmosphere are bad. There's tons of gamey element in their games since Demon's Souls and the fact that some of these elements are explained and incorporated into the world (like dying and respawning, multiplayer, etc.) doesn't mean they have to come with some convoluted answers to every gameplay element.

They feel immersion breaking because it's obvious From either dropped a traversal mechanic or didn't realize how fucking stupid their map design is. So they added Torrent farting into the sky, which isn't even animated beyond the jump. It looks stupid and it shows a lack of foresight or a really bad design decision day one. Plenty of Elden ring uses natural slopes and paths to get up and it all should have.

Some repeated elements are to be expected in an open world game, but it's still not the same as in Ubitarded games.

You've admitted you haven't played a modern ubisoft game but continue to call them bad and different to Elden Ring. While those of us willing to try different games are pointing out it's very Ubisoft in it's reused assets and design philosophy. I wonder who's opinion is more informed and valid.. The guy who refuses to try these games, argues all flaws don't exist except some nebulus ones he will never list.. Or the people playing Open world games, with experience in the genre from the top selling ones and saying 'Yes, these use similar design philosophies. I'm going to say Horizon zero dawn has a better open world than Elden ring does. Which is impressive considering how bad that games open world is. But at least getting the map in that game involves gameplay, not pressing X to show you where everything is (and yes it does. It clearly has markers for the mines and other locations)