From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Silva]

Anybody heard if there will be new Godskin/black flame/Night Eye Queen stuff in Shadow of Erdtree?

That would be the only reason for me to get it at launch. I'm a Godskin bitch.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yes, across thousands of years and an entire continent, everyone agreed on what kinds of sex were okay. Sounds plausible.

It's plausible because truth exists and human beings have an intelligence capable of understanding good from bad. That's why even today people scoff at gay shit. Even when they pretend to be "tolerant" deep down they still likely flinch at the thought of two men butt fucking each other. And this idea ancient socities were more "accepting" or debauched than our own is just a modernist cope.

"Look, the ancient Greeks were all homos! That means we can be homos today!".

Except no, Greeks weren't homos, and homo shit wasn't "accepted" or normalized. It's a fantasy constructed by some British homo hostorian based on cherry picking evidence in art and by reading too much into certain Greek terminology.

As for mythology, none of that stuff was meant to be taken literally or be a reflection of any kind of societal value. Mythology is basically coded metaphysical or esoteric knowledge. That's the real "meaning" behind the use of myth in Plato's writings for instance.

The question in Elden Ring now is whether they are just relying on mythology or if they actually did capitulate to the "agenda". Given FromSoft's work so far i have a very hard time believing they did (doesn't seem they are even aware it exists, they are just stuck in their own world), but there's the looming trojan horse that is GRRM's influence.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The pearl clutching over modern historians interpreting ancient cultures is especially funny considering how much ancient mythology was sanitized by catholics trying to bring people into the fold by changing their legends to conform to what were, at the time, their modern values.

As for mythology, none of that stuff was meant to be taken literally or be a reflection of any kind of societal value.

Unlike video games, which are serious business and not intended for entertainment.

 

[Spike]

The pearl clutching over modern historians interpreting ancient cultures is especially funny considering how much ancient mythology was sanitized by catholics trying to bring people into the fold by changing their legends to conform to what were, at the time, their modern values.

As for mythology, none of that stuff was meant to be taken literally or be a reflection of any kind of societal value.

Unlike video games, which are serious business and not intended for entertainment.

I think you misunderstand what Catholics (rightly) did. They didn't just "take" their legends, they affirmed them by acknowledging the natural law written in every man's heart. They affirmed them insofar as they were true, because there are degrees of Truth the world over. Like a circle. Catholicism is all 360 degrees, baby. Buddhism may have 80 degrees for example (some views they have on suffering such as acknowledging its necessity but then they stray away into error pretty quickly), the Orthodox have 355, etc. Catholicism is a way of seeing.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Unlike video games, which are serious business and not intended for entertainment.

Unlike video games, yes.

Not to say fantasy isn't often a play on objective realities or archtypes (the best kind of fantasy most certainly is), but mythology is literal coded knowledge and it's very different from fantasy. It's not just some vague "allegory" to various principles or archtypes. Myth is actual esoterism, to be decoded by those with the "ears to hear". That's why i mentioned Plato, because the inclusion of myth in his dialogues wasn't just some kind of aesthetic or artistic touch, or a kind of superficial morality or pietism, a nod to some of the more "irrational" or "outdated" impulses in the Greek sensibility of his time. His use of myth is not "theology", it's actual metaphysics.

The same applies to religious scriptures. That's what explains all the "strangeness" in both ancient myths or ancient religious texts. If the Gods like to copulate so much, it may just be because those myths are dealing with the relationship between trascendent principles, anthropormophized for the sake of keeping those higher truths hidden away from the uninitiated.

 

[Spike]

Unlike video games, which are serious business and not intended for entertainment.

Unlike video games, yes.

Not to say fantasy isn't often a play on objective realities or archtypes (the best kind of fantasy most certainly is), but mythology is literal coded knowledge and it's very different from fantasy. It's not just some vague "allegory" to various principles or archtypes. Myth is actual esoterism, to be decoded by those with the "ears to hear". That's why i mentioned Plato, because the inclusion of myth in his dialogues wasn't just some kind of aesthetic or artistic touch, or a kind of superficial morality or pietism, a nod to some of the more "irrational" or "outdated" impulses in the Greek sensibility of his time. His use of myth is not "theology", it's actual metaphysics.

The same applies to religious scriptures. That's what explains all the "strangeness" in both ancient myths or ancient religious texts. If the Gods like to copulate so much, it may just be because those myths are dealing with the relationship between trascendent principles, anthropormophized for the sake of keeping those higher truths hidden away from the uninitiated.

Well said. *tips zucchetto* Also, the struggle of taking control of your flesh and its difficulty I think is a part of the point of all of those stories with unbridled sexuality.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

The idea that a femboy and anyone they fucked would be too taboo to create a myth about is beyond absurd.

This has nothing to do with taboo. Zeus turning into a bull and abducting Europa isn't there so that a couple Cretan furries can feel represented, it's an affirmation of the conquering male - a core value of contemporary human culture.

This is a general problem with From worldbulding. They write those stories in the guise of societal allegory, but there is no society behind them. Their ontology is confused, stuck between the Lovecraftian inhuman unknowable, and nebulous human sacral experience devoid of any of its natural practicality. It exists in the service of Miyazaki's end of days fetish, rather than trying to appear as if it could have ever been the standing order of things that involved more than just the pantheon alone.

When you remove the human component of the abstract/human dynamic of myth, the audiance will naturally try to humanize the abstract. This, in turn, makes stories like Miquella and Mogh lose all pretence of a higher meaning, and circle back to base physicality.

 

[Spike]

The idea that a femboy and anyone they fucked would be too taboo to create a myth about is beyond absurd.

This has nothing to do with taboo. Zeus turning into a bull and abducting Europa isn't there so that a couple Cretan furries can feel represented, it's an affirmation of the conquering male - a core value of contemporary human culture.

This is a general problem with From worldbulding. They write those stories in the guise of societal allegory, but there is no society behind them. Their ontology is confused, stuck between the Lovecraftian inhuman unknowable, and nebulous human sacral experience devoid of any of its natural practicality. It exists in the service of Miyazaki's end of days fetish, rather than trying to appear is if it could have ever been the standing order of things that involved more than just the pantheon alone.

When you remove the human component of the abstract/human dynamic of myth, the audiance will naturally try to humanize the abstract. This, in turn, makes stories like Miquella and Mogh lose al pretense of a higher meaning, and circle back to base physicallity.

Yes! Great take, and true. This is why their stories never truly sit right or ring true to me. There is something always missing. Because it is confused and half-thought. Some cool ideas for sure, some cool things going on. But nothing compared to a real fantasy author like Gene Wolfe and the rest.

 

[Silverfish]

Yes! Great take, and true. This is why their stories never truly sit right or ring true to me. There is something always missing. Because it is confused and half-thought. Some cool ideas for sure, some cool things going on. But nothing compared to a real fantasy author like Gene Wolfe and the rest.

Funny enough, this is something that B-team handled pretty well. DS2's setting seems a bit more fleshed out and is largely devoid of the end of days fetish, feeling more like an 80's fantasy novel with some of the details obscured.

 

[Ravielsk]

The idea that a femboy and anyone they fucked would be too taboo to create a myth about is beyond absurd.

This has nothing to do with taboo. Zeus turning into a bull and abducting Europa isn't there so that a couple Cretan furries can feel represented, it's an affirmation of the conquering male - a core value of contemporary human culture.

This is a general problem with From worldbulding. They write those stories in the guise of societal allegory, but there is no society behind them. Their ontology is confused, stuck between the Lovecraftian inhuman unknowable, and nebulous human sacral experience devoid of any of its natural practicality. It exists in the service of Miyazaki's end of days fetish, rather than trying to appear is if it could have ever been the standing order of things that involved more than just the pantheon alone.

When you remove the human component of the abstract/human dynamic of myth, the audiance will naturally try to humanize the abstract. This, in turn, makes stories like Miquella and Mogh lose al pretense of a higher meaning, and circle back to base physicallity.

Exactly, however I get the impression that this is more the consequence of From just refusing to do proper world building. They made a game with an entire Pantheon yet barely give us any actual info on the gods themselves.
So even if in Miyazaki's head there is some kind of context beyond "uwu femboy bussy" then we simply cannot perceive it when he is unwilling to plainly share even world building basics.

It would be like removing Zeus's mastery over lightning and his battle with the titans or that he is the 'head deity' but then keeping all his sexual escapade. By stripping out so much, even by simple omission, you end up presenting an entirely different character/story.

 

[MasPingon]

The idea that a femboy and anyone they fucked would be too taboo to create a myth about is beyond absurd.

This has nothing to do with taboo. Zeus turning into a bull and abducting Europa isn't there so that a couple Cretan furries can feel represented, it's an affirmation of the conquering male - a core value of contemporary human culture.

This is a general problem with From worldbulding. They write those stories in the guise of societal allegory, but there is no society behind them.

Please stop, this is beyond retarded. Myth is not a societal allegory.

 

[Stoned Ape]

There's also some Japanese stuff concerning the gender of deities which I wouldn't be surprised about being included in this. Some Kami were female when the major religion was Shinto but were then reimagined as male when the government became Buddhist. There's also some examples of Shinto deities that have male and female aspects along with genderless forms.

Trying to view any of the portrayal of the demigods through a positive LBGT representation lens because you want to get annoyed is pretty much as dumb as the idiots who consider Kami trans icons (which is blatant cultural appropriation in its truest sense, something which those people are supposedly against). A lot of modern people are myopic and only look at any subject as a means to reinforce their world view, whether that be left or right wing.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Please stop, this is beyond retarded. Myth is not a societal allegory.

Sure, but I'm saying From's attempts at myth read as if they were actually attempting allegory, not myth. They lay out a puzzle box of oblique ideas, and expect the audience to solve it, except most of the tools used in the solution are external to the setting.

Myth is predominantly supposed to be the explanation, not a conceptual DIY kit.

 

[Ivan]

SOON

 

[Cryomancer]

Any details about how to start the DLC? Also, since the last update, I'm unable to play online in linux.

 

[Silva]

SOON

"Promise you'll bang me"

- Miquella

 

[d1r]

SOON

"Promise you'll bang me"

- Miquella

(only if you're male)

 

[Lyric Suite]

FromSoft needs to get new composers. The ones they had since DS3 are pretty mid.

Art at least is still pretty good.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, even Sekiro had pedestrian music.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Shit trailer. Btw, the latest patch nerfed everything into the ground again. It's like they're watching build videos and making lists. There is absolutely no design or any kind of vision regarding combat and weapons balance in this game. They just do whatever. Popular? Nerf. PvP morons cry about something? Nerf.
And radahn is now a pedo. The best character in the game turns diddler. I don't even.... I mean I knew that they always put what passes as story/lore in these games whatever it is they puked yesterday but this is...just confirmation at this point.

 

[Removal]

Any details about how to start the DLC? Also, since the last update, I'm unable to play online in linux.

gotta kill Radahan and Mohg and then interact with the egg in Mohg's arena

 

[9ted6]

Don't tell him about greek culture, the roman orgies, the catholic priests that owned brothels (which caused the necessity to call a vatican council to ban such happenings)... and that's just Europe.

Good 20th century revisionism.

Don't look up what greek philosophers actually said about sexual deviancy, like how they said it rots the mind and soul and destroys culture. They were especially harsh about homosexuality.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Some korean plays it

 

[Silva]

Don't tell him about greek culture, the roman orgies, the catholic priests that owned brothels (which caused the necessity to call a vatican council to ban such happenings)... and that's just Europe.

Good 20th century revisionism.

Don't look up what greek philosophers actually said about sexual deviancy, like how they said it rots the mind and soul and destroys culture. They were especially harsh about homosexuality.

If they were critic of those customs that means said customs were commonplace and disseminated.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Some update (~6 GB) dropped for the base game.
Removed flashbang from the intro and now you can call horse for 2nd phase of final fight.
cool