From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Old Bald Bad]

I've had some fun with Code Vein. Though don't really expect a souls' experience from it. VERY different - over the top anime style and atmosphere.

I will give it another try.

The Surge 1 & 2: Mech suit souls-like? Cool, I guess. One hour into the game, I had to navigate through a narrow and dark tunnel with flickering lights. I refunded it immediately. Stupid developers—were they trying to kill people by triggering photosensitive epilepsy and motion sickness at the same time?

If you can't handle flashing lights don't play video games period. DLC is probably worse on this front.

What else? Nioh 1 & 2: While they are good games, like others said, they don't fit in the souls-like genre. After leveling my character above level 10 and unlocking some skills, these games become a totally different beast. Very fast and reward aggression.

Bloodbrorne is not a souls like then?

Is Elden ring not a souls like if I mod it to be faster?

I get it. Everybody has a different opinion about what is “souls-like.” Mine revolves around the importance of the stamina bar. In Nioh games, when you unlock certain passives and skills, the stamina bar becomes irrelevant because you can Ki-Pulse and do other things to replenish your stamina. In Souls games, no matter how much you speed it up, you still have to manage your stamina bar. Sometimes, you have to wait for your stamina bar to recover, which makes the combat slower. I’m not sure if “slower” is the right word here, but I hope you get what I mean.

 

[Hell Swarm]

In Souls games, no matter how much you speed it up, you still have to manage your stamina bar. Sometimes, you have to wait for your stamina bar to recover, which makes the combat slower. I’m not sure if “slower” is the right word here, but I hope you get what I mean.

One of the major complaints about Dark souls 3, bloodborne and Elden ring is that stamina is irrelevant. You always have enough to spam dodges.

And one of the major complaints about Dark souls 2 by people who don't like it is the stamina bar is very tight and you have to manage it.

Same series, very different stamina management mechanics.

 

[toro]

On the other hand, Dragon's Dogma 2 combat shits all over DaS combat.

In what way?

DD2 combat doesn't devolve into a retarded dance, roll fest or R1 spamming. It's simply refreshing to be liberated from all that bullshit.
Then there is no lock in DD2 therefore mobility and positioning is more important than in ER. Also the spells are much better than the ones from ER.
DD2's combat is balanced for multiple enemies while in ER aggroing more than one enemy means that you are fucked. ER's combat cannot into multiple enemies.
DD2's physics engine is simply better than ER's physics implementation and this is reflected in better animations and more organic/natural fights.
DD2's fights are grounded compared to ER's anime fights (jumping while handling two heavy swords and wearing heavy armor is so retarded).
DD2's combat is simply fun. Fighting a lizard in DD2 is more fun than a retarded super buffed ER boss.
DD2's combat represents a step forward in the right direction while ER's combat is already creatively bankrupt (how much faster can you make a boss spin!?).

 

[Silverfish]

DD2's fights are grounded compared to ER's anime fights (jumping while handling two heavy swords and wearing heavy armor is so retarded).

Okay, but warrior jumping attacks have always been fairly potent in DD.

 

[Lyric Suite]

DD2's fights are grounded compared to ER's anime fights

If you say so, but i distinctly remember seeing DMC animu shit in some Dragon Dogma videos i've seen.

 

[Silverfish]

DMC animu shit

Don't be silly.

 

[Anonona]

If you say so, but i distinctly remember seeing DMC animu shit in some Dragon Dogma videos i've seen.

DD's combat offers a certain array of play style depending on skills and vocations

So you can go from down-to earth vocations like Fighter, Archer and Mage to more "animu" ones like Mystic Spear, Thief and Magick Archer. And even then, depending on your skill loadout, Vocations like Thief and Magick Archer can be quite down to earth, Warrior and Sorcerer have different degree of realism and Archer can go from skilled marksman to Legolas.

DD2's physic engine in particular does give the fights a more grounded feel. For example, bashing a goblin with a shield, seeing it reel backwards from the impact and then tripping and falling off a cliff, or being able to make a Cyclops lost balance because you tackle it while running or falling from a considerable height, and them it slips on its own weapon while tumbling back. It has a considerable amount of emergent gameplay. And the player himself isn't free of these kind of things happening to him.

I wouldn't call Dragon's Dogma's combat inherently better. Each game has very different goals with its combat system and influences. They are both good games that have very different interpretations of ARPGs with exploration. Souls focus on solo combat with a dreamy and dark world, while DD2 feels like the best translation to action game of DnD, focusing on adventure and teamplay.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Personally, I think the things DD2 does better than ER in combat involve the feeling of weight and momentum, the number of abilities you can assign (and how they are tied to Vocations rather than specific weapons or ashes of war), better 1v many combat, and a far superior physics engine.

I think ER is far more challenging unless you use mods or run some sort of challenge mode, DD2 is very, very easy.

The world in DD2 feels far more alive than ER.

I think ER has far more interesting lore, generally better looking armour and weapons, superior art design, more interesting unique dungeons.

I still think Bitterblack Isle is more atmospheric than anything in either of the other two games and is up there in level design with anything from ER. The only thing holding it back is how damage scaling is tied to level in DD1 which means you have to resort to throwblast spam to kill anything tough if you try to complete the dungeon at a lower level.

 

[Machocruz]

BBI is a GOAT'd crawl, at least relative to this degraded era of dungeon design. Harkens back to the halcyon days of the 80s-early 2000s.

 

[Odoryuk]

I'm too much of a fromdrone to enjoy DD, I'm sorry. I tried the first game recently and visually, storywise and, the most important, atmosphere–wise it's so bland that I didn't care about the combat at all. Maybe it is technically better (though I doubt it, maybe DD2 has the better combat, but I don't have any incentives to try it anymore), but nothing supports this combat. Believing in the world is one of the most important aspects to me, and FS always delivers the best worlds

 

[Anonona]

I tried the first game recently and visually, storywise and, the most important, atmosphere–wise it's so bland

I find the aesthetics of DD actually to be fantastic and to achieve with flying colors what they are trying to do; they are old DnD, both DD1 and 2. They are very much a love letter to RPGs. The pawns banter, the design of armors, the usage of old english, the down to earth monsters. Calling it bland is missing the point, as it was intentionally created to evoke a feeling of true classic fantasy.

Here is a piece of official artwork done as an homage to DnD.

Image

Just look at some of the promotional in-engine images. These could have perfectly been taken from a RPG's bestiary

Image 2

Without mentioning the numerous inspirations on classic mythology and art when it came to monster design. Like the fact they gave Cyclops tusk in a nod to the origin of the myth being the discovery of elephants skulls which were mistaken as having a single eye.

Examples

As for the plot, both game have big issues with pacing and writing sadly, but DD1 actually pulls off a interesting twist near the endgame that makes the game world far more interesting and re contextualizes the premise of the game, and even links plot elements into game play mechanics. DD2 tries to do the same but it isn't near as effective and it relays in part of having played DD1 to really appreciate them.

Also the expansion of DD1, Dark Arisen, is dripping with dark fantasy atmosphere, one of the reason is one of the most regarded parts of the first game.

DD1 in particular is a game that does take time to show its true value. Is a bit of a meme that the game only starts getting good after the oxcart quest, but there is true in it. I remember back when DD1 released on PS3 I wasn't too impressed at the beginning of the game, but by the end it I end up really liking it. They are kind of niche though, so it is normal if you are not into them.

 

[Odoryuk]

Calling it bland is missing the point, as it was intentionally created to evoke a feeling of true classic fantasy.

Yeah, I guess I was never a fan of classic fantasy imagery and always liked more messed up fantasy.

I'm remembering how when I replay Dark Souls, when I get to the DLC area I always get disappointed by this boss, because I always forget about its existence solely because of its lackluster design:

 

[Lyric Suite]

I have no issue with classic fantasy. I also don't think FromSoft's art is great merely because the fantastic elements are "messed up". The art is just good in itself. Would be good with generic fantasy too.

While i do have some preferences of my own generally i care more about execution than the subject of the art. Most of my pet peeves, when i have any, have more to do with the style. I prefer art that is serious and grounded over cartoony stuff for instance.

I actually had half a mind of starting DD1 now that i finished Bioshock but i better wait until i'm done with my current job. I don't want to repeat the mistake i did with the Elden Ring DLC where i dragged it for two months just because i could only play three days out of a week and sometimes barely even that.

 

[The Decline]

I actually had half a mind of starting DD1 now that i finished Bioshock but i better wait until i'm done with my current job. I don't want to repeat the mistake i did with the Elden Ring DLC where i dragged it for two months just because i could only play three days out of a week and sometimes barely even that.

Would playing it on your Steam Deck give you more time? It runs great on it.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I wouldn't call Dragon's Dogma's combat inherently better. Each game has very different goals with its combat system and influences.

Agree
Their combat systems are fundamentally distinct, so trying to argue which one is "objectively better designed" usually fails because it's starting from an erroneous premise

Still, even within the "Souls" type combat system I think From has been surpassed by others

 

[DJOGamer PT]

DD2's fights are grounded compared to ER's anime fights

If you say so, but i distinctly remember seeing DMC animu shit in some Dragon Dogma videos i've seen.

Capcom's animu shit > From's animu shit


Most complex ER player combo (it's a canned animation):

DD2 simplest combo:



Most exicting ER fight agaisnt a large enemy:

Dullest DD2 large enemy showdown:

 

[notpl]

Do you really think those DD2 excerpts you posted look fun, rather than tedious?

 

[Multidirectional]

It's a bit like when people post DMC video where some combo tryhard is rendering a regular pushover enemy completely helpless and expect people unfamiliar with it to see from that video why combat in those games is good. Nobody is getting convinced by those videos, and generally people need to actually play the game to see why it's fun.

 

[AfterVirtue]

Most exicting ER fight agaisnt a large enemy:

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Do you really think those DD2 excerpts you posted look fun

I don't think
I know

 

[DJOGamer PT]

It's a bit like when people post DMC video where some combo tryhard is rendering a regular pushover enemy completely helpless and expect people unfamiliar with it to see from that video why combat in those games is good. Nobody is getting convinced by those videos, and generally people need to actually play the game to see why it's fun.

It's just a funny shitpost man
Also poking fun at LS self-contradiction regarding him not liking rule of cool anime silliness, but turning a blind eye everytime From does it (even when they're being as over the top, if not more, than the opposing game)

Still, even for someone who has played ER but hasn't played DD, those videos make it evident that the latter's combat system is more freeform and has a greater depth of interaction than the former

 

[Multidirectional]

Still, even for someone who has played ER but hasn't played DD, those videos make it evident that the latter's combat system is more freeform and has a greater depth of interaction than the former

Oh I'm certain the combat is more freeform and has more depth of interaction. If a game designed by DMC guy wouldn't even have that it would be a pretty big fail. Doesn't seem like it's something From Soft fans are looking for though. If you actually see nothing wrong with combat in ER I don't think videos of other games will convince you.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Doesn't seem like it's something From Soft fans are looking for though. If you actually see nothing wrong with combat in ER I don't think videos of other games will convince you.

I am a From fan
I am looking for more depth to From combat

I have been looking for it since Dark souls 3 and so have many of the original Souls fans. The argument has been "If you're going to sacrifice the adventure for combat then make the combat more interesting and complex. Let the player keep up with the weeaboo bosses or stop making weeaboo bosses"

I enjoyed the extra depth I recently got from a mod. It wasn't a lot but it was more and I appreciated a modder making From look like a bunch of lazy faggots recycling content rather than improving on it. 15 long swords with the same move set when they could have easily added basic combo deviation and made most of them unique. I don't need a magic long sword upgrade and a default magic upgraded sword. They're the same thing and a waste of everyone's time to exist. If From weren't utter faggots they might have tied weapons to bosses souls DMC style and given the player much more interesting reason to grind shitty bosses than "it's a deathroot and a summon worse than Mimic tear"

 

[Multidirectional]

I have been looking for it since Dark souls 3 and so have many of the original Souls fans. The argument has been "If you're going to sacrifice the adventure for combat then make the combat more interesting and complex. Let the player keep up with the weeaboo bosses or stop making weeaboo bosses"

Well I'm definitely in full agreement with that argument. When I said FS fans I meant the type that counters any criticism of their combat design with "skill issue". And there seems to be plenty of them. I don't think these people are looking for any changes and most of them probably don't play melee action games outside FS catalogue or their copycats.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It has nothing to do with not wanting change, we just don't want the combat system to become what you like.

I don't want Souls to become Ninja Gaiden or DMC or Monster Hunter. I had no problem with Sekiro, so it's not a question of change.