Is there even a reason to reply to Lyric ever? You know he won't listen.
At this point, it does feel like arguing with a Bethesda fanboy
But he keeps twisting my arguments and making wild assumptions of my stances
So in the end I feel like I have to jump back into the fray, defend myself and make my position more obvious (if that is even possible anymore...)
For instance:
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the combat system
You say you don't understand the criticism of From's combat
People explain the issues they have
People repeatedly, consistently, logically explain these issues - and after some analysis one can see that many of the issues all these posters have share common factors
Your response?
You close your ears and go "Ah la la la la la. Seems like your problem bro, just adapt. Ah la la la la la. That's just liek ur opinion bro. Ah la la la la la. You just don't get From's genius bro."
People leave, because they got tired of your shtick and once again you proclaim "I just don't get what's the problem with From's combat"
Rinse and repeat for the last 8 years
Grasping at straws already on your very first rebuttal.
Am I?
I mean...
And mind, you do this even at the times we are not discussing abstract design components, but actual concrete technical gameplay flaws - which are downright embarassing after 10+ years of making these games:
- enemy attacks still go through walls, while player attacks bounce off
- input buffering is still overzealous, a minor annoyance on the pre-Bloodborne games but completely inexcusable now that combat runs on turbo mode
- critical hits still don't work consistently on slopes
- lock-on still breaks when bosses do their spazz attacks, even though there's nothing else in the room to lock-on to
- enemy pathfinding is still hilariously wonky, leading to either exploitable or unpredictable movement paterns
Where is your rebuttal of this?
Oh that's right:
Even when you bother to actually engage in the discussion, you mostly just reply to the low hanging fruit and ignore the strong arguments...
It's also another case of "it's only bad when FromSoft does it".
It's another case of fanboy equates fair criticism with "your game has 1 micro-issue and therefore it's shit and you're a pleb for liking it"
I would would critize any game for presenting the same issues
This kind of attitude usually stems when one is afflicted by underdog syndrome, which is an emotional and not an objective reponse. FromSoft is "mainstream" now, that means everything bad they do is unforgivable where as those other games can be exscused by virtue of being "unfairly" overlooked
The fucking irony
On this website and coming from you of all posters
Not to mention I haven't been the one who has constantly been arguing in bad faith and making strawmans every chance I get
Even within FromSoft itself you can see this attitude when it comes to Dark Souls 2, the black sheep of the series.
An unfairly accrued reputation based on a unfortunately botched development cycle and criticism of the game's design that for the most part doesn't hold true under scrutiny (and the flaws that warrant consideration are usually ignored by its detractors, also in part because it would force them to recognize they exist subsequent games)
it's also worth pointing out a lot of this animosity against them didn't exist when FromSoft were themselves percieved to be the underdog.
Because when From was the "underdog", their games still didn't the emphasize combat to the detriment of the other components and also the overall style of the gameplay lessened the combat's flaws to annoyances and not severe presistent issues
And even back in DS2 days we had posters here annoyed that their combat was starting to stagnate and the technical faults I listed above were still present despite the game running on a new engine
But now it's been nearly 10 years since Bloodborne and its shift in combat sensibilities, yet with every new game From has either ignored its shortcomings or doubled down on them
Running cover and mounting a strawman in the same argument.
No, you weren't making any "humourous" statement
This is getting tiresome
You might not have a sense of humor, but don't fault me for your inability perceive humor
That shitpost was clearly made in a very popular meme format
And the point of the post was first and foremost the fact that I find Capcom's anime wackiness cooler than From's anime wackiness - this should really be obvious to anyone that can read, given the fact I started the post with the comparasion "Capcom anime > From anime"
Furthermore, and I am really repeating myself here, it's hidden motive was poking fun at the fact you repeatedly proclaim to be turned off by such frivolous weeb shennanings, yet you apparently have no such problems when From games are being just as over-the-top (if not more)
Thirdly,
you were specifically making a point about combos in ER not being anywhere near as complex as even the simplest combos in DD2
in that first comparasion, I was specially making a point about combos in ER not being anywhere near as impressive as combos in DD2 - because despite being more a visually flashy and complex movement (also therefore more animu, but I know you don't like such things
), at the end of the day it was still a pre-defined move which was simple to perform as even the most basic of attacks ; while that DD2 combo despite being a simple sucession of simple moves, it actually required mastery from the player's part and due to the game's nature also ends up as an unique moment that may not again be replicated even 100 hours down the line (as such, imo it ends up being far cooler)
Second, i don't recall being particularly appreciative of this kind of stuff when found in Souls.
DS3, Sekiro and ER are overall far more shounen anime than anything found on DD
Shit, Godrick's fight alone is more chaotic and flashy than Credo (the most hectic boss in DMC4) despite the latter's more gaudy appearance
Which is a completely irrelevant point to make, because in ER, "complex combat moves" aren't a thing.
That ER flying kick gif I posted was a multi-hit attack that also completely changes the character's positioning while active
It might not be a complex move to execute, but mechanically I would say it qualifies as a "complex combat move"
It's not what the combat is about.
Agreed
As it stands From's combat isn't about challenging the player with mechanically interesting choices
It's about playing Guitar Hero: Prepare to Roll Edition
You have a preference for a specific kind of combat games which FromSoft always seemed to actively want to stay clear of.
You're right
From seems to be actively trying to avoid compelling action combat design
Or maybe they can just keep doing their own thing which is what set them apart originally in the first place.
Of course they're going to keep doing their own thing
It's brought them nothing but success
It has also brought them stagnation
And that's exactely the opposite of what set them apart in the first place - the willingness to be unconventional - which they no longer are
I do have some familiarity with fighting games ...
With that said, i think i know enough about how those games work ...
Yeah I'm going to call bullshit on that Mr. "What the hell even is tracking?"
you seem to be making the case your preference has priority based on this general idea of what a "melee action combat" game ought to be, citing this vast gaming tradition with all it's accumulated knowledge in terms of mechanics and gameplay styles.
And once again you've given me reason:
Funny thing here is
If I, or anyone else, were to invert the script and use this very reasoning to defend such bad game design in a genre you are particularly familiar and fond of, you would be popping a vein right now and calling that poster a complete retard
I don't want them to turn into spazzy action fests, with "complex" combos, fast reaction times, flashy move sets and all the res
They already did and you liked it and asked for seconds
Also, once again you go for the low hanging fruit
I mean, I recall making a thread where I tried to explain what the general principle of this tradition was all about - even made a slapdash comparasion to chess
Never once in it did I state or even imply, in that thread or any where else, that turbo speed and combocrafting where the pinnacle of the "tradition"
Shit, in my post you're here quoting I even suggested From could look into a game whose combat is even slower paced and more methodical than DeS and DS1 are - Bushido Blade (which as expected, you completely ignored)
And yet all you can think of everytime I talk about "melee action games"
Another sign that you really don't know much about the topic and despite that you keep making absurd conclusions
The pedigree you are alluding to holds no interest for many of us because we never saw FromSoft has being part of that world.
And that's a failure on your part
Because the action component is very clearly is part of that world
The fact Dark Souls shares its origins with an attempted Ultimate Underworld clone shows that we are dealing with something that isn't exactly just your average "melee action game"
Ultima Underworld is not a 3rd person Hack 'n' Slash
And from what I remember UU also isn't even half as focused in combat as DeS was
The second FromSoft veers in that direction is likely going to be moment when i stop playing their games.
Doubtful
It should be obvious if you have eyes to see. If you can't see it, i suspect it's because you are actually a bit blind as to the real complexity in FromSoft games ...
I'm gonna file this one under your catchphrases, as per already expected
In terms of how enemy move, their attack patterns etc, i just find FromSoft games to be smarter than their competition, and cleverness is not something that can easily be defined like quantity can ... it's less easy to define why bosses in Sekiro are a lot more clever than those in Nioh in their design and attack patterns.
I could very easily describe you why Credo is an excellent boss fight
It's only hard if you don't know what you're talking about
Honestly, why keep this up?
At this point we all know for you these things boil down to "thing I like = good. thing I don't like = bad"
Just be forthright man
He made the claim that FromSoft combat is "mediocre" and then delineated his reasons: jank.
Yeah... this does it
On this matter, talking to you is like talking to an overly verbose brat
Doesn't matter how many times I say it, how many different ways I try to frame it, how much more transparent I try to make it
You simply refuse to consider opinions opposite to your own
And what's more insulting is you clearly can't even be bothered to extend back the courtesy of properly reading what's written
You've fully degenerated into a fanboy
Congratulations
