From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Alienman]

Imagine people raging over Gothic 2 using Gothic 1 graphics and animations.

Probably would do if Gothic was on Gothic 6 with the same graphics and animations.

 

[Lutte]

It was clear from the start that this was going to be Dark Souls 4 under a different name. They just wanted to build a world without being restrained by the lore already established by the series, and that's what they did.

But it doesn't even do that. It's not "unrestrained by the lore established by the series" it's just replacing names that will end up meaning the same thing. Chosen undead, bearer of the curse, ashen one, now it's tarnished, it's all the same archetype. Enemies look like deformed atrocities from a zombie apocalypse, same thing again. Something Something deities something humans are cursed something wanna bet if the endings all lead to circular / cycle type bullshit once more and mankind is never salvaged anyway?
Ok so now the zombies wear viking armor. Whatever. I already felt disgusted by snownigger inspired settings about a decade ago, there was no need to push more of that shit.
Bloodborne was higher effort theme wise, even though it was still very much soulsy at the core.

Gameplay looks like an unholy mix of Sekiro and the Souls, random mooks look even less important than ever, they were already pretty meaningless in Sekiro as with the high mobility you were never really under threat by anything other than bosses/minibosses, the stealth looks as meaningless as ever as you're probably wasting more time crouching and slowly walking to things once again than r1r1r1ing the weaker mobs while sprinting into them (the only use of stealth in sekiro was to remove one health bar from a mini boss). This is completely devolving from the game design of DeS/DS where being crowded by enemies actually meant something and where a first playthrough always encouraged you to engage with the content of the world methodically and not just run past things as if your first playthrough is already your second or third playthrough turned speedrun attempt. Low mobility and high endurance consumption for your muh iframe button is a feature, not a bug, of the gameplay promoted by the souls.

They've made another "the only gameplay is in the boss fight" game but with 300% more padding with that retarded open world that is 70% empty and 30% filled with trash fighting. Oh god I totally look forward spending 1 hour of walking around before getting actual content to engage!

Absolutely bankrupt.

It's the worst feature of Sekiro, the fact that encounter design was meaningless for most of the game with the ease with which you moved around and could even just kill by r1 spamming every mook around a miniboss, just flee to greener pasture losing aggro, then stealth shotting that one free bar of health on the miniboss when coming back.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Imagine people raging over Gothic 2 using Gothic 1 graphics and animations.

Hey I'd be happy if they were reusing ds1 animations! I just think the ds3 combat system is lame and that reusing those animations means it will probably be similar to ds3 system.

 

[Wunderbar]

So you're specifically only talking about how the game looks? Not about gameplay story elements, only looks? In that case, yes, the game looks like a DS3 DLC. I'm fine with that because I would buy a DS3 DLC right now for any amount of money. If I can be sure that the gameplay will be reminiscent of anything from Demon's Souls to Sekiro.

Looks-wise it's a dark souls 3 asset flip.

Gameplay-wise it's a dark souls 3 clone (same animations, same attributes, same combat, same bonfire-estus mechanics), except with decline-inducing ubisoft open world, with towers, bandit camps/monster dens, activities and crafting.

Story-wise it's another souls rehash, complete with onion knight and maiden in black.

Lore-wise... wait a minute, I don't give a damn about the lore. Fromsoft themselves don't give a damn about it either, the lore is an afterthought they come up with in the last month of development.

Because a game with "Dark Souls" in its title comes with certain expectations. If they fail to meet even a single one of those expectations, their fans are ready to grab the virtual pitchforks and start a shitstorm that can easily last for up to 7 years. People are still bitching about DS2 not being faithful enough to DS, and about DS3 being too faithful to it. How can you blame them for wanting a fresh start?

people are NPCs who are willing to slurp the game's cock as long as it's marketed properly.
No one bitches about Dark Souls 3 other than a few codexers. Pretty much every person who bitched about Dark Souls 2 did so because the game had awful graphics (due to cut lighting) and because of that elevator that goes from the windmill to the lava castle.

Meeting Patches the first time around was cool and unexpected, meeting him the second time around was funny because you already knew he's gonna pull some kind of trick on you, meeting him the third time was annoying.

And what about meeting him for the fourth time? And the fifth?

If by the third time you were already annoyed, this complaint stands for DS2, Bloodborne, and DS3. Everything you're saying (apart from the 100% assets reuse) applies to all recent FS games. If you were already tired of the decline of the series after DS2, expecting things to chance with ER after they were exactly the same in BB and DS3 doesn't make much sense.

so you're gonna defend the blatant fanservice now?

By the way, Dark Souls 2 didn't have Patches. Pate & Creighton sidequest was a fresh spin on the "unreliable NPC" trope, too bad Miyazaki thought "nah" and just reused Patches two more times.

The Ubisoft game design worries me too, but the "old and tired gameplay formula" is all but tired to me.

I'm still playing all souls games on a yearly basis, some of them more than once per year. I'm still trying to do a 100% run of BB without dying. I'm excited to try the upcoming mods for DS3. If all this isn't true for you, maybe you should have tuned down your expectations when they said they were going to make another game very similar to Dark Souls. I remember having a discussion here where someone said "no no this isn't true", but hey, who's laughing now?

I don't really have much in terms of expectations, but like Jinn said earlier I'm gonna buy and play it anyway. So far everything I saw made me think of ER as a lazy and trend-chasing game, Fromsoft's attempt to repeat The Witcher 3's success.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Because local self-loathing anti-Maxie Movement cocksucker cringelord Lutte also dislikes this game I'm going to change my mind and hope this game is a success in every possible way.

As does Verylittlefishes

 

[NJClaw]

No one bitches about Dark Souls 3 other than a few codexers. Pretty much every person who bitched about Dark Souls 2 did so because the game had awful graphics (due to cut lighting) and because of that elevator that goes from the windmill to the lava castle.

Either you're exaggerating or you haven't followed closely the shitstorm around DS2. People were mad about A LOT of things, and many of them were (and still are) mad about its story and lore not fitting enough within their idea of the DS universe. I don't even have an idea of what this means, since these discussions about hidden lore usually are just infinite circlejerks where everyone has to roleplay as some kind of enlightened mystery man, but they exist.

When judging a sequel, people expect throwbacks, but not too many of them. But hey, not even too few. It's a minefield, a game of chance that will always leave someone unhappy. Maybe they just wanted to make a game without the burden of having to reference anything about DS, or maybe they were just tired of the DS series as a whole. Whatever the reason might be, I don't really see any problem with naming the game Elden Ring over Dark Souls 4, even if the concepts and ideas behind it are the same that inspired Dark Souls.

By the way, Dark Souls 2 didn't have Patches. Pate & Creighton sidequest was a fresh spin on the "unreliable NPC" trope, too bad Miyazaki thought "nah" and just reused Patches two more times.

So you're fine with a concept being refreshed with a new coat of paint and reused? Then why are you so upset about ER probably doing exactly that with the concepts and ideas behind DS? They will take everything that has always been in these games since Demon's Souls and present it in a different way, just like they always did with every single installment of this series.

I don't really have much in terms of expectations, but like Jinn said earlier I'm gonna buy and play it anyway.

Why would you buy it if you only have negative things to say about it?

You're saying that everything about it is stale, old, and tired, and yet you want to play it?

 

[Matador]

I don't really have much in terms of expectations, but like Jinn said earlier I'm gonna buy and play it anyway. So far everything I saw made me think of ER as a lazy and trend-chasing game, Fromsoft's attempt to repeat The Witcher 3's success.

I doubt they wanted to ride on the Witcher 3 success making an open world ARPG. You can criticize FROM Soft. in other aspects but they are not a trend chasing company. They simply are wise doing what they know they do well, like a craftman.

I think they wanted to use their increased technical capabilities to scale up the world,try new things and give their perspective to open world design.

I don't think what we saw was open world decline. Having the ability to put markers on the map after discovering things exploring is immersive (like Ultima Underworld), in contrast to Ubi soft auto filling with bloated boring stuff when reaching a tower.

It will be interesting to explore open areas with Bosses and encounters, that worked very well in Dragon's Dogma, and then finding big dungeons with classic Souls design. In fact I think this game will resemble more Dragon's Dogma than Ubi Soft crap, but with more detailed and crafted dungeons.

Even with some asset rehash (inevitable because they don't have AAA resources) I'm pretty hyped to see what they can achieve with these new ingredients, I prefer this to DS4 cloning DeS-DS3 experience one more time.

 

[Wunderbar]

By the way, Dark Souls 2 didn't have Patches. Pate & Creighton sidequest was a fresh spin on the "unreliable NPC" trope, too bad Miyazaki thought "nah" and just reused Patches two more times.

So you're fine with a concept being refreshed with a new coat of paint and reused? Then why are you so upset about ER probably doing exactly that with the concepts and ideas behind DS? They will take everything that has always been in these games since Demon's Souls and present it in a different way, just like they always did with every single installment of this series.

putting a new spin on existing trope and literally copypasting a character or a concept are two different things.

I don't really have much in terms of expectations, but like Jinn said earlier I'm gonna buy and play it anyway.

Why would you buy it if you only have negative things to say about it?

You're saying that everything about it is stale, old, and tired, and yet you want to play it?

what else would I play otherwise? Another slav fallout clone?

The way I see it, when developing a sequel, devs should focus on something their previous game excelled at. Like, Nioh was a combat/build-wankery game, so the sequel focused on weapon/skills/endgame variety. Should a potential Disco sequel have a combat system, a fully-explorable Revachol, and the bowling minigame? Maybe, but what devs should definitely focus on is the writing, like in the original game.

Souls series didn't become a worldwide phenomena because of its combat, or the lore, or presentation, or whatever. Souls series succeeded because it offered a fresh experience. Being kicked down the hole full of monsters by a seemingly friendly NPC? Realizing that the dudes at the hub locations got murdered by Lautrec/Yurt? Trudging through the Depths knee-deep in feces with your healthbar halved by a curse? Fighting Maiden Astraea, dodging Anor Londo archers, getting backstabbed by Maldron who was wearing a White phantom ring. These sort of things.

And now, all Fromsoft are doing is rehashing it again and again, without even improving other aspects such as combat/presentation/level design/etc.

I doubt the game will be outright bad or incompetently made, but I also strongly doubt it'll be a memorable experience.

 

[Lutte]

Souls series didn't become a worldwide phenomena because of its combat, or the lore, or presentation, or whatever. Souls series succeeded because it offered a fresh experience. Being kicked down the hole full of monsters by a seemingly friendly NPC? Realizing that the dudes at the hub locations got murdered by Lautrec/Yurt? Trudging through the Depths knee-deep in feces with your healthbar halved by a curse? Fighting Maiden Astraea, dodging Anor Londo archers, getting backstabbed by Maldron who was wearing a White phantom ring. These sort of things.

And now, all Fromsoft are doing is rehashing it again and again, without even improving other aspects such as combat/presentation/level design/etc.

The reality is worse than the way you put it. It's not just rehashing. It's devolving what was already there. With sekiro-ish mobility, no jumping damage etc how can you possibly replicate the experience of trudging through something like Senn's Fortress?
The parts that made the souls interesting is not being rehashed, it's vanishing. Meanwhile they're presenting a Midir clone boss as a game highlight. F'king pathetic. I like good bosses, honest, I enjoyed the bosses in DS3 and Sekiro, but they were never the core of From's games at all. DeS had puzzle bosses, that became trivial once the puzzle was solved. Yet DeS is a jewel of the series. Honestly, I would stomach it better if they made a DeS 2 sort of game over the direction they're taking, a legit rehash would be a massive improvement, at least the game would have more to it than just running from bosses to bosses.

 

[Perkel]

My take:

- many pages and no one noticed they finally removed retarded roll. Now dodge is like in BB aka quickstep though a bit slower.
- they fixed lighting and character models from DS3
- DS2 unused torch mechanic seems to be back this time.
- from preview it seems like they target DS2 amount of gear
- DS3 special attacks that won't be attached to specific weapons
- Charged heavy strike is back
- my fears toward open land is sould game weren't resolved.

 

[Black Angel]

People are still bitching about DS2 not being faithful enough to DS, and about DS3 being too faithful to it.

Yeah, no. It wasn't that DS3 being 'too faithful', so much so that they rehashed some of the plot points, while also bringing the EXACT same NPC (what the fuck is Andre doing here?) or at least the exact same NPC but with different name. This is nowhere near going from Gothic 1 to Gothic 2 (which is obvious since the latter takes place immediately right after the former), or even Fallout 1 to Fallout 2.
What happens in Dark Souls 3 isn't what one could call an organic and logical continuation of Dark Souls 1 (and even Dark Souls 2) stories, instead they're doing it based on, again, vague impression that their own fanbase has on their games. Basically, nostalgia bait.

I do agree with you that they're most likely tired of DS series, which would make sense if you've read the interview about them being not too keen on making sequels in the first place. Hence, I'd personally hold my breath that ER would be something new, even though the skin and sound might seems the same as Souls(borne).

Why would you buy it if you only have negative things to say about it?

You're saying that everything about it is stale, old, and tired, and yet you want to play it?

Ma'am, RPGWatch is over there.

I doubt they wanted to ride on the Witcher 3 success making an open world ARPG. You can criticize FROM Soft. in other aspects but they are not a trend chasing company. They simply are wise doing what they know they do well, like a craftman.

It isn't From that I'm worried about, it's fucking Scamco. Being the first game in the series, I'd assume they gave From a higher degree of freedom in regards to design decisions, but going forward?

Still, ER's supposed to be a new IP, so I'd sincerely hope they gave From the exact same degree of freedom as they did with Dark Souls 1, which is kinda dreadful since it would mean any straying from what made From great in the first place would be largely From's fault (and maybe also their own audience).

Souls series didn't become a worldwide phenomena because of its combat, or the lore, or presentation, or whatever. Souls series succeeded because it offered a fresh experience. Being kicked down the hole full of monsters by a seemingly friendly NPC? Realizing that the dudes at the hub locations got murdered by Lautrec/Yurt? Trudging through the Depths knee-deep in feces with your healthbar halved by a curse? Fighting Maiden Astraea, dodging Anor Londo archers, getting backstabbed by Maldron who was wearing a White phantom ring. These sort of things.

And now, all Fromsoft are doing is rehashing it again and again, without even improving other aspects such as combat/presentation/level design/etc.

I doubt the game will be outright bad or incompetently made, but I also strongly doubt it'll be a memorable experience.

Indeed

 

[Wunderbar]

no dedicated "encumbrance" attribute, which means Endurance now affects both Stamina and equip load (just like in DeS and DS1). Why would they make END a no-brainer stat for any melee characters again?

 

[Sentinel]

The skin could be anything, it's what they're doing underneath, how they put together what they're truly good at into one whole package, and if they're doing better this time, are all what matters to me personally,

FromSoftware has shown that they can't evolve in this department though.

no dedicated "encumbrance" attribute, which means Endurance now affects both Stamina and equip load (just like in DeS and DS1). Why would they make END a no-brainer stat for any melee characters again?

Because unlike what fanboys think, FromSoft never learns from their past mistakes, and as shown by DS2, 3 and BB, they misunderstood what people enjoyed about DeS1 and DaS. But it doesn't matter because half the fanbase sees "button = awesome" gameplay and claps, and the other half buys the game anyway hoping it will be just as good as that game they played 10 years ago.

 

[NJClaw]

putting a new spin on existing trope and literally copypasting a character or a concept are two different things.

But what makes you think that ER will just be an exact copy with no new ideas? A 20 minutes introductory gameplay video? Do you think that the pot-boy will be EXACTLY like the Onion Knight only because they both need help?

Souls series didn't become a worldwide phenomena because of its combat, or the lore, or presentation, or whatever. Souls series succeeded because it offered a fresh experience.

This is a very bold claim. I think the combat and presentation (or, more precisely, the hype and street cred that at one point started to surround the combat and presentation) played a much bigger role. When Demon's Souls launched, it definitely gathered a bunch of hardcore fans thanks to its novelty and the fresh experience it offered, but what cemented the series as a worldwide phenomenon is definitely the legendary status it somehow gained online as a difficult unforgiving game with excellent presentation. Of all the people I know IRL that love the series, half of them were drawn in by the combat, the other half by the setting, presentation, and lore.

And now, all Fromsoft are doing is rehashing it again and again, without even improving other aspects such as combat/presentation/level design/etc.

I doubt the game will be outright bad or incompetently made, but I also strongly doubt it'll be a memorable experience.

I guess that, after all, our positions aren't so different. You're still willing to hope for better things, while I might be so accustomed to mediocrity that I no longer know how to see it. So far, no FS game truly disappointed me. Not DS2, not DS3, and not Sekiro. Everyone bashed them for many different reasons, calling them bland and uninspired, but they all still had enough elements to make them unique and memorable to me.

 

[Zlaja]

Oh also this is the only game where riding a horse actually looked fun, every other game I've ever played horses/mounts have been the worst part

Really? Teleporting on top of a hill by riding into some blue light, and no fall damage so just jumping off a cliff with no care in the world is "fun horseriding" for you. To me it looked retarded.

"a world without being restrained by the lore" yeah, but it's still gonna have the usual Muhyazaki crap like Patches, Onion Knight, Kiln Yggdrasil, Maiden-in-black-this-time-with-one-eye, etc. Why bother with "the new world with a new lore" if you are going to rehash the old lore anyway?

I got to ng +7 on DS3 whereas I only beat DS1 once

I'm still playing all souls games on a yearly basis, some of them more than once per year

Wow, personally I think souls games got old already in 2015. Very old. And I loved that shit when it was fresh.

 

[perfectslumbers]

This is a very bold claim. I think the combat and presentation (or, more precisely, the hype and street cred that at one point started to surround the combat and presentation) played a much bigger role. When Demon's Souls launched, it definitely gathered a bunch of hardcore fans thanks to its novelty and the fresh experience it offered, but what cemented the series as a worldwide phenomenon is definitely the legendary status it somehow gained online as a difficult unforgiving game with excellent presentation. Of all the people I know IRL that love the series, half of them were drawn in by the combat, the other half by the setting, presentation, and lore.

You're right that those parts are what people latched onto, but honestly those parts were unique experiences too. It sucks that From Soft games have become derivative but, what are they derivative of? Themselves. If it was Dark Souls 3 that came out in 2011 instead of DS1 people still would've found it overwhelmingly new and fresh. Since DS1 came out a million games have copied it's dodge roll combat and checkpoint system and even it's dark aesthetic. I'm fairly certain I even remember an interview where a Witcher 3 dev said they were heavily inspired by Dark Souls combat.

It makes me sad though, knowing I'll probably never get the feeling I got when i was at the bottom of Blighttown, or when Firelink Shrine died, or when I walked into a boss room and found contemplative music and a corrupted maiden praying in a sea of gunk instead of an actual boss. The first two souls games are the only games that ever affected me emotionally through gameplay to the extent other games would affect me through their stories and characters.

 

[Black Angel]

The skin could be anything, it's what they're doing underneath, how they put together what they're truly good at into one whole package, and if they're doing better this time, are all what matters to me personally,

FromSoftware has shown that they can't evolve in this department though.

What, putting several things together into one whole experience? They proved themselves going from (Demon's Souls in bracket since I haven't personally play it), to Dark Souls 1, to Bloodborne, and to Sekiro. It's making sequels where they're weak right now (haven't played anything they made pre-Demon's Souls so I wouldn't know here), but making new stuff? That's what they're best at.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Miyazaki-san reading this thread, amused at weak anglo gaijin energy.

 

[Cromwell]

But what makes you think that ER will just be an exact copy with no new ideas? A 20 minutes introductory gameplay video? Do you think that the pot-boy will be EXACTLY like the Onion Knight only because they both need help?

doesnt matter. They are quoting themselves which is about as grating as all the pop culture references in western games. When I piss in the soup I serve you, even if its just a few drops, there are two kinds of people, some, like you, which argue endlessly that theres enough tasty soup around it maybe and the others who throw it in my face (especially if I did it 5 times before), we call them the non retarded.

personally I feel like everything before it suddenly feels like an early acess build of ER and by extension it would mean that ER is probably a new build for the next one.

 

[NJClaw]

doesnt matter. They are quoting themselves which is about as grating as all the pop culture references in western games. When I piss in the soup I serve you, even if its just a few drops, there are two kinds of people, some, like you, which argue endlessly that theres enough tasty soup around it maybe and the others who throw it in my face (especially if I did it 5 times before), we call them the non retarded.

You do realize that in this metaphor the non retarded are also still licking the soup from your face, right?

 

[Multidirectional]

What I saw in that video looks like a game I'll have no problem enjoying. And I wonder how many of the people who bitch about it now will end up playing it 10 times more than me.

 

[Cromwell]

You do realize that in this metaphor the non retarded are also still licking the soup from your face, right?

nope that would count them in the retarded camp. I will play it too and also count as retarded but I would never berate anyone for not liking the direction this seems to take and ideally not buying.

 

[Silverfish]

no dedicated "encumbrance" attribute, which means Endurance now affects both Stamina and equip load (just like in DeS and DS1). Why would they make END a no-brainer stat for any melee characters again?

We don't know for sure that that's the case (it is, obviously, but you know, it's not confirmed yet). ER looks to be taking a page from Nioh, with its summoned creatures being a parallel to Nioh 2's yokai abilities. It's possible, though admittedly a big stretch, that equipped creatures would carry their own stat and skill bonuses like N2's yokai.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

So if there's invasions this is gonna be some BULLSHIT to contend with as an invader.

Look at this shit.

I gotta fight the host, his friends, possibly some sort of seed of giants thing that makes the enemies wanna kill you, and the host/his friends now have a fuckin' spirit animal gank squad on demand?

Meanwhile as invader you got limited heals and probably some other handicaps.

God, Miyazaki, you really are a genius.

kneels

 

[Matador]

All the critic voices in this thread, please recommend me some good games, given that From Software is not up to your standards.

Genuinely curious and open to play some gems I don't know yet.