From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Matador]

Hate these beta tests. Game is releasing on late february and we have min maxing, exploits, spoilers,etc all over the place. Game squeezed like an orange or an early access title.

I won't see any video to keep my first playthrough blind, but still this doesn't feel right.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

 

[Shrimp]

Some guy posted a youtube video of Elden Ring parry, which looks more like DaS1 parry, no wind-up frames, just hit parry on hit. Is this true? That would be so awesome. I loved parrying in DaS1, still used it in DaS2, but it was a lot less effective with windup frames (having to predict when enemy would attack), and by DaS3, it was mostly useless, cause many enemies would have very different patterns and switch up at the last moment.



They will also have something called guard counter, which from the description sounds like parry for people who can't parry: basically a less effective follow up after simply blocking a strike. That sounds boring.

DS1 style parrying returning is pretty cool. I remember parrying a ton of enemies in DS1 as well as the parryable bosses in DS2 but I never really made much use of it in DS3 since I never seemed to be able to get the timing right.
Seems like it's definitely worth it for me to at least consider using it in regular gameplay this time. I personally prefer the reactive approach to parrying rather than the idea of having to set it up in advance.

 

[Silva]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

They should purge rolling altogether and swap in BB quickstep instead. Rolling should be limited to fall from long or high speed jumps. Having PvP being this silly rolling everywhere is what made me abhor Souls PvP. My son's Roblox arena game is less silly than this shit.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Not that it had a great combat system or anything, but Witcher 3 got it right in this regard: parry humans, dodge beasts by sidestepping, roll against massive monster attacks.

 

[Egosphere]

They will also have something called guard counter, which from the description sounds like parry for people who can't parry

You can see it for yourself, 2:56

 

[kalganoat]

Pathetic performance on consoles lmao

Quality modes:

PS5 and Series X are Native 4K, Series S is 1440p.

PS5: Runs around 45fps, never drops below 30.

Series X: Runs around 40fps and is generally around 5-6fps lower than PS5 in like-for-like scenes.

Series S: Just slightly above 30fps most of the time.

Performance modes:

Performance modes on the current-gen consoles feature worse shadow quality but other settings (foliage density and draw, effects, textures, ambient occlusion) are equal to the Quality mode! Only other difference is that Series X|S lose motion blur in performance mode whereas PS5 keeps it in all modes.

PS5: Targets native 4K but is generally 1512p to 1800p. Runs at 45 to 60fps depending on the scenario.

Series X: Targets native 4K but is generally 1512p to 1800p. Mostly 1512p though, often a lower resolution than PS5 in like-for-like scenes.

Series X generally runs worse than PS5. Just walking through the grass sees Series X struggling to reach 60fps. PS5 has a 10fps lead sometimes. However there are outliers which favour Series X; rapid traversal on horse back for example. Riding one particular path via horse gives Series X a 10fps advantage of its own. For the bulk of gameplay though, PS5 has better framerates.

Series S: Same settings as Series X and targets 1440p but seems to actually be around 1008p. Runs between 40-60fps but is generally around 50fps

 

[NJClaw]

Pathetic performance on consoles lmao

 

[Lyric Suite]

Platforms: Xbox Series X and Series S, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One, Microsoft Windows

That's a shame.

 

[Hassar]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

One of the first techniques I learned in kendo (Japanese swordplay/fencing) was rolling. But it wasn’t anything like how it is implemented in DS. Those i-frames would have been useful.

 

[Jaedar]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

They should purge rolling altogether and swap in BB quickstep instead. Rolling should be limited to fall from long or high speed jumps. Having PvP being this silly rolling everywhere is what made me abhor Souls PvP. My son's Roblox arena game is less silly than this shit.

Isn't quickstepping just rolling with a different animation though?

 

[cvv]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

One of the first techniques I learned in kendo (Japanese swordplay/fencing) was rolling. But it wasn’t anything like how it is implemented in DS. Those i-frames would have been useful.

I think ppl are being way too hysterical about rolling, like a bunch of bleeding broads. Yes it's gamey....because it's a fucking game. It's just as gamey as chugging estus or parrying/riposting or a number of other videogamey features.

Rolling in DS3 is retarded not bc it's rolling but bc it's rolling done badly (too many iframes, too little stamina consumed). Btw BB's hopping around like a bird isn't inherently better or worse, more or less goofy.

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

 

[NJClaw]

That's awesome! Love the fact that they are emphasizing shields blocking and parrying again, which are ACTUAL melee combat techniques, as opposed to rolling which is mostly video game made up bullshit! I don't mind rolling sometimes, like against a large boss, etc, but to have it as the base defensive move was retarded in Dark Souls 3. Very glad to see this!

They should purge rolling altogether and swap in BB quickstep instead. Rolling should be limited to fall from long or high speed jumps. Having PvP being this silly rolling everywhere is what made me abhor Souls PvP. My son's Roblox arena game is less silly than this shit.

Isn't quickstepping just rolling with a different animation though?

I guess his point is that quickstepping looks less ridiculous than somersaulting around to avoid an attack. Personally, I'm not bothered by it, but I'm aware that my suspension of disbelief has a very low bar to clear.

 

[Black Angel]

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

I would also nominate Ghost of Tsushima, in that to even roll dodge you need to unlock it, and to perform it you have to double tap the dodge button. Additionally, there's even the Perfect Dodge™ that's also needs to be unlocked first. My only complaint would be that dodging feels weird because of the over-the-shoulder-camera and no proper lock-on system.

 

[Silva]

I think ppl are being way too hysterical about rolling, like a bunch of bleeding broads. Yes it's gamey....because it's a fucking game. It's just as gamey as chugging estus or parrying/riposting or a number of other videogamey features.

Rolling in DS3 is retarded not bc it's rolling but bc it's rolling done badly (too many iframes, too little stamina consumed). Btw BB's hopping around like a bird isn't inherently better or worse, more or less goofy.

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

Come on man, Rolling IS retarded by principle. If I show up in your door now with a wooden stick to beat the hell of you, I bet you won't go rolling around like a retardo, will ya?

So, why a game that's praised for (among other things) its verossimile and physics-coherent combat, as DS1 is, should rely on nonsensic immeesion-breaking shit? What's next, no fall damage? Super combos like Bayonetta? Eternal rolling like Metroid??

I guess his point is that quickstepping looks less ridiculous than somersaulting around to avoid an attack. Personally, I'm not bothered by it, but I'm aware that my suspension of disbelief has a very low bar to clear.

Exactly.

 

[Wunderbar]

Rolling visually reduces your hitbox and makes it look believable when you roll through/under enemy's attack. Quickstepping through attacks would look worse than rolling, and it will immediately expose Dark souls combat as a simplistic i-frame abuse fest.

 

[NJClaw]

I think ppl are being way too hysterical about rolling, like a bunch of bleeding broads. Yes it's gamey....because it's a fucking game. It's just as gamey as chugging estus or parrying/riposting or a number of other videogamey features.

Rolling in DS3 is retarded not bc it's rolling but bc it's rolling done badly (too many iframes, too little stamina consumed). Btw BB's hopping around like a bird isn't inherently better or worse, more or less goofy.

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

Come on man, Rolling IS retarded by principle. If I show up in your door now with a wooden stick to beat the hell of you, I bet you won't go rolling around like a retardo, will ya?

So, why a game that's praised for (among other things) its verossimile and physics-coherent combat, as DS1 is, should rely on nonsensic immeesion-breaking shit? What's next, no fall damage? Super combos like Bayonetta? Eternal rolling like Metroid??

I wouldn't say that DS gets praised for its verisimilar and physics-coherent combat. Heavy two-handed weapons have a certain feeling of weight to them, but that's it.

Once your dodging mechanic already has invincibility frames that allow you to phase through enemies' weapons, is the rolling animation really what ruins your immersion?

 

[Hassar]

I think ppl are being way too hysterical about rolling, like a bunch of bleeding broads. Yes it's gamey....because it's a fucking game. It's just as gamey as chugging estus or parrying/riposting or a number of other videogamey features.

Rolling in DS3 is retarded not bc it's rolling but bc it's rolling done badly (too many iframes, too little stamina consumed). Btw BB's hopping around like a bird isn't inherently better or worse, more or less goofy.

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

Come on man, Rolling IS retarded by principle. If I show up in your door now with a wooden stick to beat the hell of you, I bet you won't go rolling around like a retardo, will ya?

So, why a game that's praised for (among other things) its verossimile and physics-coherent combat, as DS1 is, should rely on nonsensic immeesion-breaking shit? What's next, no fall damage? Super combos like Bayonetta? Eternal rolling like Metroid??

I wouldn't say that DS gets praised for its verisimilar and physics-coherent combat. Heavy two-handed weapons have a certain feeling of weight to them, but that's it.

Once your dodging mechanic already has invincibility frames that allow you to phase through enemies' weapons, is the rolling animation really what ruins your immersion?

The criticism is leveled against both iframes and invincible animation strings. From relied on those too much.

I think immersion was broken way back when the series first started and players realized that despite the trappings of a more weighty system, there were elements of a “press button to win” approach embedded in its system. Once a crowd of npcs are wailing on you to no avail because you rolled or parried at the right moment, any semblance of combat was lost.

I’d say that was when disappointment crept in but we overlooked it for the most part unless you’re forced into pvp.

 

[Silva]

I think ppl are being way too hysterical about rolling, like a bunch of bleeding broads. Yes it's gamey....because it's a fucking game. It's just as gamey as chugging estus or parrying/riposting or a number of other videogamey features.

Rolling in DS3 is retarded not bc it's rolling but bc it's rolling done badly (too many iframes, too little stamina consumed). Btw BB's hopping around like a bird isn't inherently better or worse, more or less goofy.

Plus the best dodging system by far is not in any FS game but in Nioh anyway.

Come on man, Rolling IS retarded by principle. If I show up in your door now with a wooden stick to beat the hell of you, I bet you won't go rolling around like a retardo, will ya?

So, why a game that's praised for (among other things) its verossimile and physics-coherent combat, as DS1 is, should rely on nonsensic immeesion-breaking shit? What's next, no fall damage? Super combos like Bayonetta? Eternal rolling like Metroid??

I wouldn't say that DS gets praised for its verisimilar and physics-coherent combat. Heavy two-handed weapons have a certain feeling of weight to them, but that's it.

Once your dodging mechanic already has invincibility frames that allow you to phase through enemies' weapons, is the rolling animation really what ruins your immersion?

The criticism is leveled against both iframes and invincible animation strings. From relied on those too much.

I think immersion was broken way back when the series first started and players realized that despite the trappings of a more weighty system, there elements of a “press button to win” element. Once a crowd of npcs are wailing on you to no avail because you rolled or parried at the right moment, any semblance of combat was lost.

I’d say that was when an element of disappointment crept in but we overlook it for the most part unless you’re forced into pvp.

Yeah, this.

DS3 is the culmination of this process with it's popamole rolling. The series should have go the opposite direction, eliminating i-frames altogether, a long time ago.

 

[Matador]

If you eliminate i-frames you make the combat slower and have less depth, because you have less options to move in combat; it would be very tough to deal with the melee/ranged combined encounters, narrow passages, cliffs, traps,etc.

You would have to change the level design, one of the main virtues of the games.

 

[Doktor Best]

Imho parrying a sword/axe thats about your size and weighs thrice as much as you is as unbelievable as dodge rolling.

If you look hard enough for things that break your immersion you will succeed every single time you play a game.

I am currently in the middle of my second try to play through Dark Souls 3 and i just killed Abyss Watchers. Whats hurting my immersion the most is the repetition of themes throughout the series. Theres always a swamp, always a village, always a crypt with reassembling skeletons etc.

Its the biggest drawback imho to the souls series. They should keep their gameplay and pacing and level structure but please be a little more creative with your area themes.

 

[Silva]

Imho parrying a sword/axe thats about your size and weighs thrice as much as you is as unbelievable as dodge rolling.

And you just reminded me of another bullshit - parrying a ton-weighting giant weapon swing (like Gundyr's) with a buckler.



There should be limitations in place for parrying (perhaps based on weight difference of weapons and shields).

 

[Hassar]

If you eliminate i-frames you make the combat slower and have less depth, because you have less options to move in combat; it would be very tough to deal with the melee/ranged combined encounters, narrow passages, cliffs, traps,etc.

You would have to change the level design, one of the main virtues of the games.

I disagree. The reason Dark Souls’ combat feels better than other games is because it is slower with more weight. Removing invincibility frames increases that weight. As it is, the level design is cheapened by existing systems because a flank attack means nothing when you become invincible by remembering where an enemy is and parrying at the right time. These criticisms are meant to extend the initial feeling of weight and of being committed to a course of action that players initially felt when playing the game.

We are using the term ‘immersion’ but I think the right term is ‘consistency.’ It feels inconsistent to have i-frames and invincibility animations in a system so primed for weighty combat. I think most players encounter this. Once the i-frames start, you no longer think of the other enemies surrounding you because you know you have a few moments of breathing space.

 

[Silva]

Yup, moves were slow to execute and had inertia. Once you swing you had to commit to it. That's what gave DS1 a certain combat-sim quality.

 

[The_Mask]

The reason Dark Souls’ combat feels better than other games is because it is slower with more weight.

This man has spoken from the gospel of truth.