ELEX ELEX II - Jax is back

[Jinn]

For some reason I'm getting Mega FPS (tm) in parts of Ignadon, which means I can reliably go through the combat The Intended Way (tm) and spam ripostes against everything.

This is so mindless and stupid, I can't possibly comperehend how anyone could defend this. It's not at all much different from Roxorowski's award-winning power-strike-after-roll attack pattern.

While I can by no means defend how they developed the combat for this game, I can't say that I find it as terribly bad as you tend to, even after playing a ways further in. Playing on Ultra while utilizing parry and riposte 17 hours in will still lead me to have some interesting encounters where I can't quite read every attack tell and find myself "END"-ed all over the ground. It's not necessarily good, and Piranha Bytes should obviously strive for something much better, but it's also not something that's ruining the game for me.

That said, out of all the points to defend in the game, I don't feel combat is the hill to die on. But nor do I find it terribly offensive nor overly braindead. It's just there as a vehicle for progression, and as I've stated before, character progression and equipment progression are still the biggest underlying aspects of success in battle, which is what I'm looking for above all else in a PB game. I feel fairly similarly about ELEX 2's combat as I do ELEX 1's.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

and as I've stated before, character progression and equipment progression are still the biggest underlying aspects of success in battle, which is what I'm looking for above all else in a PB game. I feel fairly similarly about ELEX 2's combat as I do ELEX 1's.

the only real progression is what weapon you use, it's nowhere near the same as earlier PB games

 

[Jinn]

the only real progression is what weapon you use, it's nowhere near the same as earlier PB games

Major progression in earlier PB games came primarily from weapon and armor progression, which you raised your stats to achieve. Any bonuses you received from attribute enhancement was minor at best, much like this. Besides that, minor skills such as lockpicking are still in. I don't understand this angle you're driving at, except as someone who doesn't like PB games in general. Which is of course fine.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the only real progression is what weapon you use, it's nowhere near the same as earlier PB games

Major progression in earlier PB games came primarily from weapon and armor progression,

All the armor of the same tier is completely identical sans cosmetics and it provides zero unique benefits. If you aren't being a tard getting hit is rarely even an issue.

Any bonuses you received from attribute enhancement was minor at best, much like this.

BS
They might as well provide zero benefit with how little they provide.

I don't understand this angle you're driving at, except as someone who doesn't like PB games in general.

I've regularly been positive towards even PB games that are shit on here(e.g., G3, R2/R3)

 

[Jinn]

All the armor of the same tier is completely identical sans cosmetics and it provides zero unique benefits.

I was just comparing armors of the same tiers at different vendors last night and didn't find this to be true. I would prefer there were different damage types factored into more armor's stats, but I'll have to see what I find later on.

BS
They might as well provide zero benefit with how little they provide.

Agree to disagree? Only time I've ever found a noticeable jump in lethality and survivability has been with major equipment progression. I guess I could try testing it with a low level weapon through the entirety of Gothic 1 or something, but even wielding the same weapon for a long time while enhancing strength or agility has only ever yielded very minor increases in damage dealt.

I've regularly been positive towards even PB games that are shit on here(e.g., G3, R2/R3)

I could dig through your posts over the past 4 years in every PB related thread to see if this is true, but my general impression, and definitely every time I've seen you mention PB games in shoutbox for example, has been in a negative context. Though I don't hold R2/R3 any high regard at all. I've tried to play them both a couple times and can't stand them. G3 is alright with the community mod for the first 10-20 hours, but turns to shit real fast.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

In ELEX 2, you have a lot more interesting options

> proceeds to list riposte spam or shield+circle strafing as the only viable options, because those very much are the only viable options

Riposte is not spam, it's a skill move since you need to know when to do it based on enemy attack patterns.

And block circle strafing was THE ONLY viable combat option in ELEX 1, so I don't see your point.

blocking with a weapon was a bit more interesting but still involved just holding a button down for a while.

I bet you don't even know you could execute ripostes in the first game, and they worked much better than in this shit

You know, Roxor, I shitpost a lot for fun, but I generally know my combat systems pretty well, since I enjoy deep aRPG mechanics and modding combat. So you are quite wrong, not only do I know about the riposte in ELEX, but I also know that it was utter shit. First, it only worked against one-handed humanoid weapons, which means it only worked against something like 1/4th of enemies.The timed block in ELEX 2 works on everything. Second, its effects in ELEX were terrible as well. Sometimes it would glitch out and lock the enemy in eternal statis, until you hit them again. When it worked normally, it would just give you a very small window to attack, and since in ELEX that meant only the first, lowest damage attack would hit, it was almost useless. In ELEX 2, it staggers them, giving you a chance to land a highly damaging power attack while they are down.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Riposte is not spam, it's a skill move since you need to know when to do it based on enemy attack patterns.

I mean spam in the sense of "using it against everything, everywhere, as the sole winning move"

And block circle strafing was THE ONLY viable combat option in ELEX 1, so I don't see your point.

I never used shields in ELEX 1, and also didn't rely much on regular blocking except for ripostes. What now?

The timed block in ELEX 2 works on everything.

This is not a point in its favour.

 

[JDR13]

How many times do you have to upgrade the fuel capacity of your jetpack before you actually see a difference?

 

[Jinn]

How many times do you have to upgrade the fuel capacity of your jetpack before you actually see a difference?

Easiest way to actually tell near the beginning is jetpacking straight up and down. Fuel is used very inefficiently if you switch direction mid air. I gained several more feet in probably 5 canisters.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I have 20something canisters and the difference is pretty obvious.

 

[lukaszek]

with max canisters you can melee 3 flying critters without landing in between, provided you survive so many hits against you

Also with nearly max you can reach roof of sky tallest scrapers. Surprise surprise, there is weapon to be found there

 

[Ladonna]

I enjoy it. They improved some things (like the jet pack) made others worse (arguably the combat). Still fun for me.

So would you say it is Gothic 1/2 to Gothic 3? Or Risen 1 to 2/3?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Those comparisons don't really apply, because Gothic 3 and Risen 2/3 were just crap while ELEX 2 is more mixed. The takeaway on major points from me after ~15 hours, compared to ELEX 1, is:

- Exploration roughly on the same level, maybe a little better, though the world feels like it lost a lot of its 'wonder' compared to the previous game
- Improved character system/progression
- Combat is nosedive-tier decline

I'm enjoying it overall, the first and foremost thing I look for in a PB game is going from one point of interest to another while thinking "ooooh, what's over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere", running from angry yokels that I disturb around the said points of interest and eventually wondering how come the last 3 hours passed so fast, and ELEX 2 still delivers when it comes to that aspect.

 

[just]

I enjoy it. They improved some things (like the jet pack) made others worse (arguably the combat). Still fun for me.

So would you say it is Gothic 1/2 to Gothic 3? Or Risen 1 to 2/3?

fallout 3 to fallout 4

 

[JDR13]

I think people are exaggerating about the combat. That, or they're not really remembering what it was like in Elex 1. I'm not seeing how it's worse.

 

[HoboForEternity]

i am kinda with roxor in here. in elex 2 you at least have a reason to time your attacks to build a combo meter. in here, while in theory it offer more strategic choices by choosing to do heavy or light attack, but in my experience 15 hours so far, heavy attack is rarely worth it unless you wait until the enemy is out of stamina and perform the heavy attack takedown.

so basically spam light attack > enemy run out of stamina > use heavy "finisher" attack.

WHILE technical aspect of the combat is better in E2 (hit detection, response, enemies' telegraphing, sometimes animation and hitboxes and actual working parry ofc) but there is not much going on in what can you do compared to elex 1, especially because it demands more attention from you regarding the old combo meter.

!!!! BLACK LIVES MATTER !!!

 

[aloeh]

Guys, is still worthy play ELEX 1 or just jump to 2?

Elex 1 is 75% of in gog, and I'm not having much time because architecture finals.

 

[soulburner]

Patch 3 is out -> https://steamcommunity.com/games/900040/announcements/detail/3114808330567292018

The changelog looks good, but no word on any performance improvements.

• Fixed unwanted dialog break ups, which could cause potential plotstoppers
  
• Fixed wrong behaviour of Eva if Jax has committed a crime
  
• Fixed Gregor, who had strange behaviour after completing the "What doesn’t kill" you quest
  
• Fixed plot killers with some main characters who died by mistake
  
• Fixed incorrect kill quest amounts of targets
  
• Fixed plot killer at the gates of the main former, which remained closed after completing the main quest at this point
  
• Fixed situation, where Tilas and Marwin could not get back to work after their conversation
  
• Fixed some key bindings issues
  
• Fixed a situation, where Irissa could not talk to Jax after she has spoken to Skibor.

• Fixed certain items, that could not be picked
  
• Fixed some linguistic errors
  
• Prices were displayed in quantity popup and total cost did not match the actual price with the haggler skill
  
• Fixed parts of the destruction bar were visible on teach screen
  
• Fixed flickering of occluded highlighted objects
  
• Fixed damage value for plasma cannon MK 2 Normal
  
• Fixed wrong behaviour of Vivian due to committed crimes by Jax in certain areas
  
• Grenade launchers are craftable now
  
• Fixed a bug, where vegetation on meshes were missing
  
• Fixed a bug in Jax's hitpoints by adding and removing constitution points
  
• Fixed climbing issue, no jump when evading after hanging on a ledge
  
• Fixed climbing issue, let go when pressing the evade button
  
• Fixed deadly weather zones, no more resistances into account
  
• Removed rushed movements, when the target is not reachable
  
• Fixed improper loot of one of Craig's bandits
  
• Holding a shield will no longer make the back immune to projectiles.
  
• Fixed a bug, Jax might be unable to speak to Caja or she will not join back to the Sixth Power
  
• Fixed a bug, where Crony stayed in combat after a teleport
  
• Fixed a situation, where Vakis might get stuck at the gates of the Fort
  
• Fixed Khan is not stuck anymore after the dialog with Asmir in certain situations
  
• Savety fix for the 6th Power sub quests were not given when interacting with Adam
  
• Fixed problems, when Jax was hit while lockpicking
  
• Bugfix for "Text” may be displayed instead of icons, when the training menu is opened the first time
  
• Fixed improper cancel option during the end screen
  
• Fixed a bug, where user were able to upgrade any weapon without losing the two copies needed in the upgrading process
  
• Fixed incorrect behaviour of Tilas after smalltalk with Vakis
  
• Fixed Voice of Khan not interacting with Jax after he has spoken to Ruben and fulfilled his duty
  
• Added safety mechanism for Skibor if he did not go to Irissa after he had guided Jax to the depot
  
• Fixed wrong item name appearing, when pickpocketing a NPC
  
• Adjusted ditch check if subtitles should be visible if voice and text language are the same
  
• Added safety mechanism for NPCs with problem to continue their routine after cutscenes

 

[HoboForEternity]

well, i'll wait then

 

[Darth Roxor]

finished work earlier, time to inject patched ELEX

 

[Peachcurl]

I enjoy it. They improved some things (like the jet pack) made others worse (arguably the combat). Still fun for me.

So would you say it is Gothic 1/2 to Gothic 3? Or Risen 1 to 2/3?

No, I don't think that would be accurate. Overall, Elex 1 and 2 are much more similar to each other than any of those examples.

 

[Peachcurl]

I think people are exaggerating about the combat. That, or they're not really remembering what it was like in Elex 1. I'm not seeing how it's worse.

Guess I lack proper descriptors for this, but let me try:

1. First off, nearly all problems only apply to melee. No significant changes for ranged combat, as far as I am concerned. Ranged air-ground fighting only means more cheese, but since many enemies also are able to attack at range that is kinda fine with me.

2. Ground melee: In terms of the underlying 'theoretical' mechanics (i.e., how it is supposed to work) I think you are right. What makes it worse is the 'physical' implementation of these mechanics. As in, the interaction of movement during animations, hitboxes, hit-timing (i.e., when does an enemies animation actual hit? at what physical point, at what point in the animation?), in general the floaty-ness of the combat. The reason all this worked better in Elex 1: simplicity.

3. Air melee (both air-ground and air-air): Admittedly, the flying/floating melee looks cool at first. But is actually even more wonky if you try it for a while: seems to me that you randomly push back flying enemies (or not) leading to some really odd sequences of zoom-bash-zoom-bash actions. And if you start the zoom at a bad angle, you get non-hits or oscillating (?) camera movements. This latter issue also applies to air-ground. Also noteworthy: many of the ground-melee actions (esp related to damage avoidance) do not translate to air-ground or air-air melee. Notably, air melee quickly breaks the focus control, meaning you will often kill some harmless critter in the vicinity of your actual target.

So to summarize: nothing much changed for ranged damage (maybe a bit more cheese potential). Air melee is new, so hardly "worse", but definitely not good. Ground-melee has some reasonable ideas in terms of the intended mechanics, but implementation made it worse.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Can anyone tell me what exactly is the point of wasting a learning point on ammo crafting when there's no special ammo in this game?

also men i have p e r f e c t e d the tardo roll attack protocol

after you roll and do that unbalancing attack, the trick is to delay the power attack ever so slightly, so that Jax lands it only after the enemy gets up - this way the enemy will get dusted again, giving you an opportunity for another special power attack, which will also most likely drain a nigga's stamina to 0, letting you follow-up with another coup de grace while he's on the ground

bonus points if you manage to get yourself behind the nigga after the first unbalancing attack, as the follow-up will be a backstab that does even more domoge

so far i've confirmed this working on raptor-types and wolf-types

at strength 50, level 12 i can kill an alien raptorid in two such combos without breaking a sweat

 

[lukaszek]

cant wait Darth Roxor when you enter oblivion space elves ruins

 

[Darth Roxor]

cant wait Darth Roxor when you enter oblivion space elves ruins

you mean risen 3 shadow army ruins

am i the only one out here who's getting dangerously big deja vu when it comes to this game's story and risen 3's

i mean i probably am because nobody played that shit game, much less finished it


also speaking of that, one thing i find very iffy about the whole setup is that while you're prancing around the world, it hardly even feels like there's an interdimensional space elf invasion going on, it's like nothing's happening and nobody gives a shit about it either