Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Elite: Dangerous

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,500
Don't hold your breath, because there's probably not going to be "meaningful" content until the first expansion.



:hmmm:

Flipping systems allegiance for the sake of flipping system allegiance ,comunity goals but no rewards, no special modules , no faction ships for doing so...Gotta need motivation to haul the same shit over and over and eventually fighting one dumb AI ship interdicting me.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,281
Location
Italy
Dude, seriously? What the hell kind of ship were you flying that can mount them in TURRETS? That's, what, 1000t in LPAs?

panther clipper.
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Panther_Clipper
iirc there should be at least a ship or two more capable of this but then there wouldn't be any more space left.


meanwhile...
downloading it. i'm going to use this joypad setup https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71532 hoping for the best, because my experience during beta with mouse and keyboard has been devastating.
 
Last edited:

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
There's space left even in this? I would have figured that the engines, shields, and all the other essential systems would consume all the space. I think the largest thing I could stand to actually fly was the IEX. I never bought a Panther.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
There's space left even in this? I would have figured that the engines, shields, and all the other essential systems would consume all the space. I think the largest thing I could stand to actually fly was the IEX. I never bought a Panther.
IEx was effectively a Panther-sized fighter.
A cool ship, but without turrets it could be easily dismantled even by lowly Adder packing 5MW pulse.

BTW: Wasn't an LPA 900t and SPA 500t?
2 LPAs alone would pretty much fill a Panther.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
In theory, if you could get an Adder there. In practice, since Ye Olde Elite was single player, combat came in the simple format of two ships encountering each other at maximum weapons range, then proceeding to blast at each other until you either managed to lance your opponent, or he rammed into you. Not exactly a finesse experience. If PvP had existed? I dunno. Presenting anything other than your thin frontal profile probably represents death, considering that an SPA will insta-kill anything it hits (I didn't ever bother carrying an LPA, it was just unnecessary).

BTW: Wasn't an LPA 900t and SPA 500t?
2 LPAs alone would pretty much fill a Panther.
You might be right, yes. I normally never carried anything bigger than the 20MW, which would pretty much kill anything anyway.
 
Last edited:

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
In theory, if you could get an Adder there. In practice, since Ye Olde Elite was single player, combat came in the simple format of two ships encountering each other at maximum weapons range, then proceeding to blast at each other until you either managed to lance your opponent, or he rammed into you. Not exactly a finesse experience. If PvP had existed? I dunno. Presenting anything other than your thin frontal profile probably represents death, considering that an SPA will insta-kill anything it hits (I didn't ever bother carrying an LPA, it was just unnecessary).
The thing is that anything capable of carrying an SPA, including IEx rotated so slowly that it should be possible to approach without substantial risk (Adder had mediocre acceleration, but it was small and fast to rotate), while staying out of crosshairs at close range would prove trivial.
Popping IEx with Adder wasn't exactly that hard or dangerous in FFE.
 

Bradylama

Arcane
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
23,647
Location
Oklahomo
N-n-not the ignore list! :negative:

Ignored Advice: If you want to figure out how to improve your standing with the Empire you should look up how to get a permit to Achenar, the capital system. I'm trying to get a permit into Alioth for the Alliance right now, and it's not dependent on your faction reputation, but your relations with the ruling faction: the Alioth Independents. Alioth Independents have branches in two nearby systems so you have to trade or run missions until they like you to get a permit into Alioth proper.

Doing missions for and trading with Great Power-aligned factions will slowly but steadily improve your faction relations. Once you reach Friendly faction status then all other Faction-aligned groups will also be friendly to you, and so on and so forth etc. You could improve your faction standing at any Alliance, Federation, or Empire system.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,281
Location
Italy
so? no love for the empire?
liberals

back in frontier i used facece-vequess because of the abundance of taxi and pony express missions. isn't there anything like that in this one?
 

Bradylama

Arcane
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
23,647
Location
Oklahomo
Just download ED's BPC tool and plot a good trade route in Imperial space. You can even manually input price information yourself. I'd also recommend setting up on a frontier world out in the fringes of settled space. There's a lot of High Supply/High Demand stations out there.
 

Bradylama

Arcane
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
23,647
Location
Oklahomo
Am now the proud new owner of a Python. 3 Class 3 Burst Lasers are capable of one devastating alpha strike.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
The thing is that anything capable of carrying an SPA, including IEx rotated so slowly that it should be possible to approach without substantial risk (Adder had mediocre acceleration, but it was small and fast to rotate), while staying out of crosshairs at close range would prove trivial.
Popping IEx with Adder wasn't exactly that hard or dangerous in FFE.
Yeah, but that's because the AI has shit aim and shittier flying skills. In practical field conditions, at midrange, even against a target tracking perpendicularly to your face, he will not have enough angular acceleration to prevent you from tracking him, and won't be a small enough pixel that you can't hit him. Like I said, I typically used a 20MW, which requires a noticeable dwell time on target to get a kill, and had no problems tracking even the tiniest targets at medium range. Since you have to get through long and medium range before you can get to short range, you'll be toasted well before then. At short range, of course, he can avoid your front easily enough, but at longer range, the distance you need to cover to do that is just too much, even in a fast ship. If PvP existed, you'd need to find some kind of pretense for approaching without being fired upon, such as engaging with multiple teammates from different vectors, or not being identified as hostile until it's too late. Otherwise, it's just too easy to drill a target with a hitscan weapon, since the only thing that matters is that your angular velocity is less than my turn rate at those ranges, so BAM, you dead.

Of course, the AI, being a shit pilot, never really capitalized on this at close range either, since at close range, the AI always just rams you, at which point the tiny fighter emits a muffled thump as it impacts my windshield.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Like I said, I typically used a 20MW, which requires a noticeable dwell time on target to get a kill, and had no problems tracking even the tiniest targets at medium range.
Then again, the AI was never into dodging your crosshairs and IEx *IS* extremely sluggish for a ship without turrets.
It would be nice to test it in PvP.
Of course, the AI, being a shit pilot, never really capitalized on this at close range either, since at close range, the AI always just rams you, at which point the tiny fighter emits a muffled thump as it impacts my windshield.
Actually, it's most likely that it is you that's ramming the AI.

That said there is one aspect of the AI that's brilliant - the way it uses missiles, conservatively and with near-human malice - once it almost managed to hit me with a fucking mine.

It also handled intercepts and relative motion pretty well, so that makes two things Frontier combat excelled at over much superior and newer IW2 (where the AI couldn't wrap its head around Newtonian physics and just spammed missiles until it ran out).
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Actually, it's most likely that it is you that's ramming the AI.
Can't be. Like you said, the IEx is a slug. Usually, my combat maneuver is to face towards the enemy and apply reverse thrust to try to decrease angular velocity by trying to hold the range open. I cannot possibly be ramming someone if I am in reverse, trying to back away from him as he faceplants into my windshield. In any event, as the smaller and more agile ship, the onus of avoiding collision is on him, anyway (especially since it kills him, but doesn't even manage to annoy me). If a fighter collides with a bomber, it ain't the bomber's doing.

Besides, the penchant for the AI to ram you is a well-documented thing, a commonly noted practice of people flying barges. Hell, that's how I did assassinations in my IEX without ever getting a criminal record, I'd just park myself in the target's flight path and wait for him to plow into me and die.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Slowly getting better at this. Had a bit of a streak of bad luck concerning some minor initial unfortunate misconceptions about contraband and shooting a cop that quickly spiraled out of control. Leading to a rather massive bounty. And suddenly I learn that human players are the most unpredictable and scary things to see on your radar. With my crummy ship I decided that my options where to run away, talk and bluff. All three which turn out to be quite valid in their own way. Best laugh however was the bluff. Get intercepted by a human. Drop speed and fly in a straight line. Makes it look like you want to be intercepted. Led to the last two aborting their own interception. Psychology 101, bitches.

Paid my own bounty off now. Methinks I need a place with a black market and minimal security presence to peddly whatever stuff I pick up. Methinks I also need a kill warrant scanner, bigger guns, interdiction toy and a wake scanner. Time for some interdictions of my own.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,281
Location
Italy
systems with just small outposts are the best for smuggling: even if they're fed or empire you'll never be scanned by police, as long as you keep away from the nav point (if present).
 

Bradylama

Arcane
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
23,647
Location
Oklahomo
Outposts never have a security patrol, and anything that needs something bigger than a Medium pad can only use stations anyway.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
i think i'm done. this game is (currently, with next to 0 hope of change), at it's core, a colossal piece of shit and a borderline scam. they've removed offline because of the background sim, but the only thing the background sim actually is, is 2 SQL jobs that update the CommodityToSystem and FactionToSystem tables every X minutes. all the rest is done manually by the devs, and it doesn't seem it will ever change considering the 2 next big updates. it's no the dearth of content, but the core concept of how players and NPCs influence the galaxy that is so idiotic that it's painful. and the exploring is not even half as cool as SE because it's not even half as accurate or half as pretty. and with the changes planned for 1.1 they've also shown they're so bad and literally fucking stupid at balancing, it killed all my hopes the ship progression will be something else than "bigger = better" and in a couple of months all the 50 players playing will all have just trading Anacondas and combat Pythons with beam lasers and multicannons because everything else is pointless. this game should've just had an Arena Commander module for combat and be done with it, 'cause PvP is the only fun to be had in this game. btw, this post on reddit (gasp! yeah i know, but it's the only way to keep up with what's going on 'cause the forums are even more of a fanboy hugbox circlejerk than reddit ever was, and i vomit every time i visit there), was what made me "snap" and finally realize how bad and rotten to the core this "game" actually truly is. here's the post in full if you don't want to visit that shithole:

it likely just means we'll basically be doing the same thing that has already been done in Lugh, Mikuun etc. That is grinding missions until a quota is met, but with nothing really changing. A faction getting a capital ships impacts the game very little, amounting to a random % chance that it will jump into a conflict zone and look intimidating. Beyond that, the capital ships don't really do anything, so why should players be working towards this goal if nothing interesting will happen? Since factions don't seem to have any resources/autonomy of their own, the results will always be predictable and boring. The entire background simulation is anemic to the point of being practically fictional at this point, since seemingly everything is done by Frontier manually, such as spawning ships, expanding into unexplored territory, wars, etc.

The game suffers from an identity crisis, resulting in a bizarrely curated Frankengame. The pitch was a sandbox but lacks the reactive environment that allows for player creativity which makes sandboxes worthwhile. A sandbox without sand. Okay. So what can we do? Grind. Grind cookie cutter missions, cookie cutter bounties, or cookie cutter trade routes for cookie cutter rewards and cookie cutter +/- 0.0000001 faction influence that has the cookie cutter result of spawning cookie cutter conflict zones until red is green or blue is yellow. And once red is green, or blue is yellow? Nothing. I guess you could do it again. But the sad truth of the matter appears to be that there is just no A.I beyond basic combat routines and them pretending that they're doing something (when in reality, a lot of the time they just fly around aimlessly and then jump out/sit still doing literally nothing), and the only way that the galaxy can change beyond basic color swaps and cookie cutter missions is that Frontier has to manually do it. And with that, the sandbox is approach is effectively neutered. The moment to moment gameplay? Meaningless. All that matters is that at the end, Frontier racks up a tally and implements a predictable result, where nothing unexpected, new, or creative could happen.

Take the planned method for human space expanding for example

One of the other community goals will be a more involved process enabling the expansion into an unpopulated system. This will be a three stage process. The first step is for us and the DDF to establish a short list of candidate systems. The aim for this initial colony is to support further exploration and to act as a hub for other expansion in the region. Once we have the shortlist players will be invited to map the candidate systems and whichever system has the most data about it sold will be the target system. A community goal will then start to gather the resources needed to build an Ocellus starport that will be deployed in the chosen star system.

I don't want to participate in expanding into unpopulated systems like you describe it, Frontier. An arbitrary list compiled completely outside of the actual game, which Frontier will then instruct us to grind exploration data on, taking the tally and making the system that received the most grind the next to be colonized. This entire method has no gameplay value, and boils down to casting a vote. it could be done entirely without the game by doing just that, and opening a poll on the forums. Unfortunately, Frontier doesn't seem interested in developing the sterile, static, and superficial background simulation that seems less and less relevant in favor of Frontier curating every event in the game. it's like playing a game of D&D in group of 300 thousand other players, with a GM that presents you with a handful of predetermined actions with predetermined results, and has the 300 thousand cast a vote to choose both action and result in one fell swoop.

And really, I'm starting to wonder, why is this game even multiplayer? They have had to sacrifice so much because of the multiplayer and have gained so little.

They wanted this to be an MMO, but they didn't want to spend the money on servers. No servers and p2p matchmaking cripples the capability of what they can do. Want to prevent people from alt-f4ing? You can't, because it being p2p means that there is no server to track them and keep their character in the game world for 15 seconds to prevent combat logging. Want to have any sort of sophisticated A.I that is capable of pursuing its own objectives? Nope, no server to track that kind of behavior, instead we can only have a selection of randomly spawning events with randomly spawning npcs that appear out of nowhere, like how there's pirates hundreds of ly away in a system that only has a blackhole, saying the same tired selection of one liners that make no sense in context of what is happening, and where.

And what do we get in return? Grinding, with friends. Like killing trash mobs over and over again with a buddy on WoW. And we get meaningless flavor text updated every few days that describes conflicts that simply don't exist in game. The instancing, p2p, low bandwidth requirements, and the purely curated approach have neutered the game to the point where it still lacks a lot of the complexity that was present in FE2, FFE, Oolite etc. So what's up next? Wings? Doesn't address the core issue, only lets you experience it with friends. Planets and FPS? it will be flashy, but it will only allow us to experience a meaningless grind from a different point of view. Then we can kill 7 boars instead of 7 pirates for eternity. I just don't know anymore. The expansions and all the updates planned so far seem to be slated to add more flash, but little substance.
 
Last edited:

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Using the 1 instead of the i doesn't really help you with bringing across your message. Then again, perhaps you intended to make it look like a mindless raving rant. Then you did succeed.

I for one am loving the game. I miss more varied missions, I miss passengers, I miss more varied equipment and ships, I miss genuine faction conflict and I absolutely miss planetary landings. I've played the original Elite and Frontier to death and, frankly, Elite: Dangerous is very much on its way to trump both these games while staying incredibly close to their recipe. With 1.1 there will be community goals and space station construction. Which will make an immediate impact on the gameworld itself. Not to mention the ability to form wings. Looking forward to convoy attacks, bodyguard missions and such.

This is the original space game with better graphics. This is a massive universe for you to play around in. This is Space Truck Simulator if you want it to be when it can also be Boba Fett Simulator. If you don't dig flying into a massive space station, circling a star, intercepting another human player after following him through two solar systems, smuggling a crate of illicit booze through security by basically going Das Boot or diving through the rings of a gas planet then this isn't for you. It is for me, though.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
Using the 1 instead of the i doesn't really help you with bringing across your message. Then again, perhaps you intended to make it look like a mindless raving rant. Then you did succeed.

are you serious? have you not noticed that stupid filter replacing "it" with "Rich Homie Cloaked"? (wooo it's finally fixed. will edit the previous post too)

[VD quote mode on]

Elite: Dangerous is very much on its way to trump both these games while staying incredibly close to their recipe

it's really not that close. even the original '84 game had more stuff to do a more meaningful universe that did't change only when the devs said so. 30 years ago!

With 1.1 there will be community goals and space station construction. Which will make an immediate impact on the gameworld itself. Not to mention the ability to form wings.

a) wings are coming in 1.2 in march. that's a 3 month post release wait for basic multiplayer functionalities in what was marketed as a multiplayer focused game

b) community goals will be nothing more than the exact same fetch quests, but now they'll have a global counter that when reached will spawn a completely meaningless and stationary capital ship that you can completely avoid or go check it out even though it looks exactly the same as every other capship in the game. or you'll have to "vote by grinding" in which dev-shortlisted system a new station will spawn, regardless of all the other shit that's going on in the game (read the post i quoted/spoilered for a more detailed analysis), it will take who knows how long and

c) [which was the crux of point of the post i quoted] will have next to no impact on the gameworld itself. cool, a new station spawned. what does that mean? absolutely nothing. a new source of the same pointless, boring missions, or maybe a new traderoute that you can repeat while you're contemplating suicide

Looking forward to convoy attacks, bodyguard missions and such.

if those will be done by the same designer(s) who did the current missions, i dread to think how boring, pointless and meaningless they'll be

This is the original space game with better graphics.

again, no. when the game is surpassed in everything but graphics and flight model by it's 20-30 year old predecessors (not to mention a whole host of other similar games), something is very very wrong with it

This is a massive universe for you to play around in. This is Space Truck Simulator if you want it to be when it can also be Boba Fett Simulator.

again, you're wrong. the universe is actually really tiny because the differences between systems/factions amount to next to nothing so you have a huge amount of the same shit. this isn't space truck simulator 'cause in truck simulator the driving is the challenge while looking at the diverse and pretty scenery, while here supercruising is trivially easy and boring and the only "challenge" is getting interdicted by another player (good luck with that anywhere but the most popular systems), while the scenery is balls of different colours with nothing interesting to them (not to mention SpaceEngine does it a million times better and more accurate... a freeware "game" done by one russian dude), and the stations are slight variations of the same 4 models (and sometimes not even that).

and don't get me started on the stupidly shitty "bounty hunting" where there's no actual "hunting" involved (unless you call camping at a RES/NAV "hunting"... or waiting for the correct USS with the same elite anaconda for the 100th time to spawn as "hunting". the only "hunting" would be to hunt the top5 player bounties in a faction, but as Isinona's recent shenanigans demonstrated [and (s)he's a far better pilot than all of us at the codex combined], unless you accidentally stumble upon them there's almost no way to actually hunt/track)

If you don't dig flying into a massive space station, circling a star, intercepting another human player after following him through two solar systems, smuggling a crate of illicit booze through security by basically going Das Boot or diving through the rings of a gas planet then this isn't for you. It is for me, though.

i dig that, it's one of the reasons why i bought the game. and i was as giddy and optimistic as you are a month ago when i had only 2 weeks of playtime behind me. but those aimless adventures get boring rather quickly and after a while, all the massive flaws of this empty husk of a game become way too obvious to bear, and it's clear the devs have no idea what is fundamentally wrong or they do but have no will/intention/talent to fix it (seriously, read the thing i spoilered in the previous post)

[VD quote mode off]
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
I actually wrote out a lengthy reply but then decided I can't be arsed posting it at what amounts to be more of an angry rant. Let's just say that I really doubt you ever having played the original Elite when you declare this game is worse than its 30 year old original in every way. And in the way you describe missions as being pointless I also highly doubt if you ever played in the static gameworld that was Frontier. This game oozes the spirit of the original Elite through and through. Just better.

'i dig that, it's one of the reasons why i bought the game. and i was as giddy and optimistic as you are a month ago when i had only 2 weeks of playtime behind me. but those aimless adventures get boring rather quickly and after a while, all the massive flaws of this empty husk of a game become way too obvious to bear, and it's clear the devs have no idea what is fundamentally wrong or they do but have no will/intention/talent to fix it'

Now this, this does deserve a reply. Yes, the game is huge and cold and empty. Which is what Elite always was about. You're a speck in a universe. However right now there is already more reactivity in the game than there ever was in the previous ones. I just hope it becomes more meaningful and, seeing as how they went mp, also gets more social tools. Which the addition of wings and community goals is a good step towards. Perhaps this is just a matter of perspective. I'm not in it to change the galaxy through being the special snowflake that I am. I just want to trade, explore, fight, smuggle and plunder my way through it. Like I did in its previous incarnations. Right now Elite is letting me do that in spades. Perhaps I just don't care about the mmo part, although some of the most interesting interactions I had in the game where with human players. So, that's a plus for me. I also did read the spoilered part of your last post. Frankly? It's bull. From patch 1.05 on you could see how prices, influence and so on started to fluctuate. All over the universe. Noone is doing that by hand, pall.

Do hope we'll see planetary landings at some points though. Not too worried about that not happening. Every mayor update so far has added lots of new stuff. Looking forward to the future.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom