Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[k0syak]

Maybe you need to steal it?
Its super good, but for 3rd gender only

 

[aweigh]

i just cleared cave of the ancient soldier and my party level's around 70-80.

nobody said the cave of the ancients was in vector graphics!!!!!!!!!!!

awesome-sauce.

btw, that jedi enemy looks fucking hilarious haa

(did you enchant yer weapons with double-damage = god?)

 

[Courtier]

Yeah, I reforged my gear to slay gods because they're everywhere.
I also managed to steal the sabre K0syak was talking about. Here are the results:

Spoiler

It's as he says. But uh, I'm not going to make it out alive. My thief can't revive and doesn't have Honey Restorer.

 

[aweigh]

its stats are very good, but the only thing that puts it over the Hekatan Hammer for a Lord is the ACC modifier. (the turn recovery's nice sure, but at these levels it's completely worthless let's be honest).

the Hekatan Hammer can be enchanted; can the Holy Sabre? if it can't be enchanted then it is inferior to the Hekatan Hammer.

EDIT: never mind i hadn't noticed the double-damage modifiers for all races. CARRY ON NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

EDIT EDIT: what end-game weapons do you guys recommend? so far i have:

hekatan hammer on my Lord (can be enchanted)
kuneltsika sword + demon's shuriken (can't remember the full name) on the Ninja (the demon-shuriken cannot be enchanted)
saint's spear + serpent mace on valkyrie (the saint's spear can't be enchanted... blergh)

i really fucking dislike these top weapons that can't be enchanted... but whatevs.

bishop + alchemist + summoner just lick each other's asses while my front row does all the work.

 

[Dorateen]

nobody said the cave of the ancients was in vector graphics!!!!!!!!!!!

When people said this was an early Wizardry-clone, they weren't joking.

As for end-game weapons, I looked back and saw that on level 6 of Ibag Tower, I switched to dual wielding using a sword called Saga Bringer, and a spear that did triple damage against gods.

 

[Courtier]

Ohoho they're going to get busy very soon. You are going to want to be casting status effects and buffs every turn, and defending, healing or turning invisible anybody that got hit like a titanic truck by the postgame enemies.

When it comes to weapons, well let's just say I'm glad I kept an innocent fighter throughout the game.

Spoiler

You're going to find powerful weapons for every class by simply exploring. A lot of incredible spears, making me really regret not having a Valkyrie. Also you might want to look for ore (key item) in the volcano to give to the blacksmith.

 

[aweigh]

these white lines are giving me a headache.

so far it's proving easier than the soldier of the ancient gods, truth be told. in the previous dungeon any fight could be the last because of the mind-suckers and the squeezer's, and the prolific use of Miracle by the demon lords.

that said, i'm only down to floor b4f of cave of the ancients.

EDIT: ok, the juggernauts are mildly threatening.

 

[aweigh]

i just got ibag tower marked on my map.

let's rocka nd roll

EDIT: whoever didn't take fucking Tackle and Swallow Killer on atleast one each of their characters is SOOOOOOO FUUUCKED.

1f down, time to take a break.

EDIT EDIT: i bought the uber-secret weapon the Aura Punch from the ELDER GODSMAN or whatever inside the locked-door room in the b6f of the cave of the ancients and after some deliberation i gave it to my Alchemist, and now he can contribute physical damage same as the rest of the team! yay!

(note: the weapon only deals damage versus adventurer-types unless you enchant it. i gave it god, undead and devil to go along with it.)

 

[getter77]

Just to throw it in: There's going to be a re-release of sorts coming up in the not distant future of Elminage: Original for PC---obviously no word on any official English localization, but I guess depending on how it goes and the fact we got Gothic then MAYBE there's some hope?

 

[aweigh]

from what i've read E:O is harder and easier than E:G in different ways: dungeons are nastier but smaller due in part to not forcing the player to rely on numbered amount of maps, and enemies and bosses are harder because they have better gear (for you to steal!).

if that gets released i'll be all over that shit

 

[Courtier]

I've played Original for about 90 hours total, and still need to finish my second run, which started after my party was tricked by an astral librarian. It's one of my favorite vidya and is what gave me this everlasting boner for the series and Wizardry in general. It's definitely not as difficult overall as Gothic, but more varied, with a lot of humor and a different charm to it.

It has a more D&D/classic adventure type of feel, as opposed to the very dark and oppressive atmosphere of Gothic. This especially shows in the music, which I really like. It's also got a fantastic intro:

Consider getting PPSSPP and emulating it, the botched translation even got fixed with a patch. Or get a cheap secondhand PSP and throw some CFW on it, it's worth it for the many good (often obscure) games for the system and new fan-translated ISOs coming out to this day.

Gothic is notorious for being the hardest of the series, and this seems mostly true. While the permadeath by aging is mostly negligible, time passes at a quicker rate and enemies are very tough. As you noted exploring is more difficult and in my experience the dungeons take longer to complete. The encounters and levels in Gothic are designed in a way to test the party's endurance (and the patience of the player) more than anything.

Partial list of differences:
-There are no EX skills in Original, which makes a big difference (though some enemies still have unique skills)
-Only one save slot
-Many dungeons are available to explore in any order from the start, much less linear
-More dungeons with gimmicks (riddles, ''mirror levels'', puzzles, entire dungeon underwater, dungeon is a living fat bird that's mid-flight)
-Smithing is easier, and there are more special items to customize your party
-There are more encounters similar to lesser demons (cockroaches are great)
-There are no Floor Masters, but more bosses (especially in the postgame, some ridiculous eldritch monstrosities and gods on a different plane)
-You can't turn monsters into adventurers with Spirit Pact, instead you have ''marriage'' which creates a new ''child'' adventurer from traits of a monster and existing adventurer of your choosing
-A bunch of cities with their own quests, more NPCs, and interesting antagonists (including a rival demon adventuring party that levels as you level)
-Art for every single item in the game (!!!)
-Nearly every monster indeed has themed items to steal. You can literally steal a succubus' seductive touch and breath or a tiger's claws and then equip them
-Donation to temple (!!!)
-More races and portraits to unlock, but no fullbody portraits
-One of the defining features of this series: custom portraits. I can't believe they left this out of the Gothic port
-New Game+ (!!!)
-Cute guildmaster

Spoiler

Her quest involves stealing a legendary whip for her to whip you with.

 

[Dorateen]

Good information there, that sounds fantastic. But I'll wait for the PC port and English translation.

 

[aweigh]

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this motherfucker right here

 

[aweigh]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

 

[Courtier]

Finally activated the floor 10 elevator, I'm halfway the--

Well okay then

 

[aweigh]

should i just go ahead and re-distribute my ores (dissasemble/reforge) all my shit specifically to get as high as possible behead resistance?

cos that's basically the #1 way i'm dying right now. although that demon kicking you for 999 dmg per GRoup Attack looks so fun

 

[Dorateen]

Wait until you meet the Archer Polete's big sisters.

 

[Courtier]

I can't do it. I can't fucking beat the small demons (Belial, couple of posts back). I've encountered them a dozen times and have been wiped every single time, without being able to kill ONE of them. Each of their several turns allows them to destroy your frontline with +/- 1000 damage hits, regardless of AC unless you are approaching -60. They can leisurely chain a combo of these hits from character to character every turn. They destroy weapons and armor (doesn't matter though, since you will be dead). They have high resistances against everything.

They have -92 AC.

MINUS
NINETY
TWO

They're so bad that they were changed in the 3DS version to have 10 positive AC. I had to look this up on the Jap wiki because I can't even kill one to look it up in the bestiary.

I've played this game for 170 hours and can't beat a regular encounter halfway through the final dungeon. I glanced down on the wiki page and saw the horror that is Polete 2: Electric Boogaloo. Odin is chuckling on his throne in Valhalla and sends his valkyries down to earth, who with a knowing smirk whisper ''git gud'' into my ear.

 

[aweigh]

-92 ac jesus fucking christ.

i looked on youtube for "elminage ibag tower" and the only relevant video i found is somebody who video-captured themselves going to the Inn and levelling up before tackling the final 5 floors. he describes that he farmed demons for several hours (mild understatement!) and in the video each of his chars gains about 80 levels and rocket into 3k hp thereabouts.

at first i thought "gee that's neat, but way overkill man", but if what you describe is true then that sounds about what the player's gonna need jesus fucking christ.

btw, what about abusing miracle/immoraliti combo? use miracle for inifnite mp once you use immoraliti and/or also use a miracle to revive ashen party during battle or teleport the enemy away.

 

[Courtier]

I think it's possible to beat them without endless grinding. These guys are kind of uniquely powerful even among the tower enemies, and maybe a dev oversight considering they were changed so drastically in the remake. To avoid them one cast of Mahamaha is sufficient. I haven't tried wish yet, might have to give that a go (though I'd like to keep my levels). Immolarati by itself didn't do enough damage. If I had a single-classed mage with smithed boosts I could probably nuke them. I'm thinking Ziakalad with an enhanced +4 lightning seal. Maybe EX: War Rite thrown in to increase the damage.

Some ways I can think of to deal with 'em are to have a high leveled brawler or ninja (who also get AC close to what this guy has if you've kept one throughout the game) and cast the decoy spell on them. Then there's Tarot, which can inflict status ailments which bypass all resistances. This is important, because if you put these demons to sleep they can be easily killed, but they have 75% resistance and high status recovery. A fairy bard (high AGI) might have been useful. A shaman with their 8 attacks per round should be able to land a status effect smithed onto their charms...

I also recall there being an EX skill to make an absolute barrier, which would buy you time for their Mark of Ruin to whittle down their HP. If you survive enough turns they basically kill themselves because of it.

For now I will try to improve the damage spells on my bishop, and otherwise avoid these monstrosities.

 

[Courtier]

Spell damage test

Without lightning charm:

With charm equipped:

With War Rite

Now if she was a pure mage she'd be doing three times as much damage. With better ore and a higher level alchemist this could have been quite a bit higher - the importance of alchemy in this game can't be understated.

EDIT: I DID IT, THE SPELL DAMAGE MADE THE DIFFERENCE

Spoiler

 

[aweigh]

only one note: at least on the player Mark of Ruin will never kill you. once it reaches low enough HP's it does 0 damage.

yeah the elemental attribute attack/defense modifiers are incredibly important. it's not even worth your time or ore boosting spell resistances and instead one should ALWAYS try to boost as much as possible the elemental attack and defense attributes instead. as long as your attack/defense % is higher or equal than the enemies corresponding attribute attack/defense % then you will overcome their spell resistance OR nullify/absorb their attack.

i wish i had known this like 50 hours earlier when i was cracking my brain open trying to figure out the best ways to smith my spell resistances evenly...

according to the japanese wiki enterook mita is mitigated (and strengthened) by the thunder elemental attribute, and the cleric instant-death spell, as well as the mage earthquake-spell's instant death occurance are nullified by the Dark elemental attribute defense; your chances of landing said spells' instant-death procs are strengthed by the dark elemental attack.

it's the reason the story-mode offers 2 specific side-quests that reward you with +1 and +2 dark seals respectively.

by the way i had no idea the ex skill war rite also increased spell damage! this places it in the top 5 spot for sure. as for the Tarot card tactic the idea is super sound as playing 1 fool card will sleep all the enemies immediately but you have to remember that you can't teleport back to town inside ibag's tower and sleep at the inn in order to replenish the tarot success rate; the only way to do it is using a Magic Herb inside the dungeon which requires a Servant.

 

[Courtier]

The dark resistance info checks out, my monster-adventurer brawler has 200% native resistance to it and Argeiss actually heals her. But about Elminage's version of Tiltowait...

Enterook Mista Damage

With 221% lightning boost

Without lightning boost

I tried holy too and it also did nothing. I don't read moon, but I think the 雷 (thunder) character meant something different in context. Filthy EOPs like us can only guess as to the true meanings of these arcane runes.

 

[Viata]

The translation seems to be something like:
Rising power by the value of all/each attributes(Ice, Fire, Thunder).
Your elemental affinities increase the spell damage. Try to see if you have the three attributes with a boost to see if changes anything.

 

[Courtier]

With a boost to all elements:

Spoiler