Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[aweigh]

so was the point of the royal tomb just for the phat loot at the end? i'm using the high king's sword on my mark of ruin Lord and he's doing about 350 dmg; i guess that was worth it? i combed every inch of the tomb expecting some great climax but after realizing there was just this coffin with 1 good sword and two whatever items i was like x_x

what are the moon, sun and mysterious "fragments" for? the old man inside the royal tomb said i'd need them when i was honest about the color of the orb tucked inside one of the coffins. i've been selling them to the Shoppe all game.



wtf

 

[Courtier]

TIGER FUCKING CENTAURS

I WARNED YOU BRO
THIS IS WHERE THE REAL PAIN BEGINS
THIS THREAD IS A COLISEUM WHERE ONLY REAL MASOCHISTS MEN SURVIVE, AND CASUALS ARE REDUCED TO POPAMOLE PUDDLES THAT DRAIN AWAY INTO THE POE SEWER LEVELS WHILE BURBLING ''SHIT GAME'' AS THEIR LIQUID SCROTUMS RECEDE BACK INTO THEIR BODY

ONLY MASTER GIMLI MADE IT THROUGH THE POSTGAME
ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO BEAT ELMINAGE?

 

[Courtier]

To answer your questions - the point was the sword. My eyes popped out of their sockets when I first used it. Hit a high score with it the other day:

Spoiler

It does 1.5x damage to all ''adventurer'' classes.

About the fragments, the blacksmith makes you something if you sell enough of them.

Here's some stuff I've been looking into. These are monster-adventurers at level 1, with no equipment. I couldn't add them to my party because they're evil, but there's a trick for that involving resting in a dungeon and coming to pick the characters up with another party. Changing alignment using friendly encounters is easy.

Spoiler

Insane. For the ninja, that's not even featuring in the increased beheading chance as she gains ninja levels or +% smithed on gear.

I've also tried others - Lamias for instance have a high petrify chance on hit, 100% charm and confusion resistance, and a couple of spells. Only problem is, if you class change monsters they lose their innate skills and resistances. It's mostly a situational thing, and for the novelty of having monster portraits.

Deeper in the new dungeon my party is getting wiped quite often. Enemies are starting to use breath that beheads, they teleport your party away, use EX skills and buffs more, there's mages that can hide and become impossible to hit, nearly every enemy has multiple actions per turn, and some use party-wide multi-status attacks that confuse/charm/paralyze all at once.

 

[aweigh]

bullet point list of reactions to your post as follows

- my party is functioning so well-oiled right now that i'm struggling to find someone i could change into a summoner. i have lord/fighter/servant/ninja/bishop/alchemist, and they all have mastery except the lord. now, i know you'll say "fuck that servant!", but servants are actually really useful. mix batches of stone softener's and mahi mahi oil's and full-health potions in x9 stacks by mixing 1 + 1 of the ingredients. for example, 1 illusion drop + 1 first love crystal = 9 stone softeners. after the end of a round they automatically activate "Treatment" ability and use a curative item from their bag (you have to keep it stocked) on everyone, and so far it's the best way i've found to cure yourself painlessly from petrify and paralyze. to top that off servants are actually Cleric-level in terms of Martial prowess, and they even get the same Phys. Atk. Up. mastery skill. they also get on mastery Resistance Up, same as the lord, because the entire point is that they DON'T get petrified so that they can "treat" the party at end of round; won't work if they get afflicted. all that said... i think i will change her to a summoner anyway, because i would basically be adding a 7th full party member wouldn't i? that seems to outweigh the pros of having her around. in fact, i could poke-ball a monster that's servant class or something, with probably better resistances.

- breath that beheads?? what the fuckkkkkk

- BREATH THAT BEHEADS WHAT

- oh, here's a nice trick: you can disable enemies "invisibility" when they hide by using the alchemy spell

"Ramialf: Returns all enemy and ally abilities changed during battle"

i found that out because i used it in one battle when the enemy changed my rank formations, and it happaned at the moment that another enemy was hidden, and when i used it voila formation back in place and enemy un-hidden. it's proven invaluable against Ninja-types.

- of course none of that matters when the motherfucking tiger centaur has twice the AGILITY score of any of your party members and opens the battle by drawing a Tarot card that sleeps your entire party. FUCK

 

[k0syak]

You are still in the reasonable parts of the game.
I got burnt out from fighting these guys, the smaller one IIRC is fucking annoying rape.

 

[aweigh]

i had an epiphany k0syak. i realized that just like in PoE (lol) the most important stat is AC. can't get beheaded if they miss, amirite? can't get petrified by a melee attack or some-such if they miss, rite-rite?

i've been dual-wielding all throughout the game this far; wait, the point is that i finally ran into a boss that i can't beat (yet): the Hellfire floor master from the volcano. I still haven't cleared Sanctum, although i have every tile explored except the final ones that lead into the boss' room. (the Sanctum floor master was laghable). I got the location to the volcano and went there and was mopping up the enemies and tried to beat the floor master like always and imagine my surprise when the fucker just will not go down.

so i decided to have everyone wear a 1-handed main weapon (mixer blades for the front-row, at the moment) and shields for everyone!

i have two shields of truth and 1 dragon shield, then my back row is the ninja (no shield) with 1 shuriken enchanted with 22% beheading rate and the power gun sub-weapon; the alchemist/bishop i've had using magician's bow the entire game but i switched them to a Book-weapon each, and one of them has the Rusty Shield (i uncursed it) and the other one has the Exorcist's shield. so everyone has a shield.

i got my front row's AC down to -19 (lord), -17 (fighter), and (-15 samurai), ninja has -3 AC and the bishop and alchemist are at positive 2 each. right now the limiting factor is scarcity of ore that gives AC...

since each shield i got has 30-40% spell defenses (not resistances, defenses) i boosted them further and then slapped cloaks on everyone and boosted the Resistances. everyone has 2 cloaks and 1 shield: cloak #1 has boosted mage-resistance, cloak #2 has boosted cleric-resistance, and the shield has boosted everything-defenses.

tl;dr: instead of losing to Hellfire in 2 rounds now i can tango with him for 5 rounds :D

btw, those hitpoints on ur party... wee. my front row has just now broken the 500-ish HP barrier. what is your AC? i have no idea what the silly letters mean once you go past -10.

 

[k0syak]

It's from google, not my screenshot. VL=very low
Played it a while ago, forgot some things already,but I think for post-endgame you NEED to have a lord (for resistances on whole party), shaman (anti-magic) and samurai (for actually attacking) . And you need everyone to be as high level as possible, so finalize the multiclassing asap.
Do you use the jap wiki? ( http://translate.google.com/transla...p://spoiler2.sakura.ne.jp/srv2/elg/&sandbox=1 )

 

[aweigh]

nah, never used it. i scour the steam discussions mostly. argh i just alt+f4'd in anger cos some dumb vampires level drained me while i was trying to farm greater demons in sanctum b5.

EDIT: my lord finally reached lv. 36 btw, and i finally have court of sanctuary. what's that do exactly? spread his resistances/defenses to the entire party? are there any special conditions?

EDIT: i beat Hellfire


i put everyone who had it casting Psi-Breath every round, and the others casting Orath and Hallobuken, non-stop. i probably had about 10 layers of Hallobuken and Orath when he started missing :D then i hit "all attack" and my ninja beheaded him. heh.

 

[RuySan]

I love blobbers, but this game is both average and annoying. I really hate the level designs. Those 1x1 rooms with 4 doors on each side connected to multitude of other 1x1 rooms is right out of demise/mordor book of stupidity. And if you want me to map the game, at least give me a compass. It's not like i can look at the stars.

And the interface is made of murdered kitties.

 

[Viata]

And if you want me to map the game, at least give me a compass.

What?

[/QUOTE]And the interface is made of murdered kitties.[/QUOTE]
This is true. It's an interface for the PSP, they just included a mouse option to the port.

 

[RuySan]

That's irrelevant if it's a PSP port. I've been playing with a gamepad and there's tons of console blobbers with much better interfaces.

 

[Viata]

I'm just saying the shit interface is because they didn't change anything while porting the game(they even removed the church donation, btw).

 

[aweigh]

anyone know what the devil mace does? it's a cursed mace with terrible stats only usable by devil race.

i can't be arsed to remove it's curse/race-restriction just to see what it does; and i'm sure it does something when used. i sold it to the shop and it costs 72k to buy back.

i used a hermit's knife in the royal tomb to change my thief into a ninja. i did not know it would do that. i just found the knife incredibly bizarre because it did 1 - 1 dmg and i was like, wtf, i need to test this... imagine my surprise.

i have a few items equipped right now, mostly shields, that all offer to UNLEASH THEIR JIZZ on my face when i equip them but i always select NO because from previous experience doing that it's always a crappy reward that's way worse than the actual item.

high king's sword -> +20-30 max hp... wow
shuriken -> +1 agility... herpderp
glass slipper -> only wearable by female but if you remove the gender-restriction and have a male equip it he'll change into a woman


here are a few items i suspect do "something" when unleashed:

- pope's mace (maybe changes the char into a cleric?)

uhhhh i forget the rest.

 

[Dorateen]

You are still in the reasonable parts of the game.
I got burnt out from fighting these guys, the smaller one IIRC is fucking annoying rape.

Love those fights with the demon trio. Later, when they are grouped with other monsters, made for some epic encounters.

The archdemon and his buddy were not so much of a problem eventually, but Belial on the left, was always a challenge to take down.

aweigh Court Sanctuary confers the Lord's resistances to all the members of the party. Very beneficial, I found.

 

[Courtier]

glass slipper -> only wearable by female but if you remove the gender-restriction and have a male equip it he'll change into a woman

-Pope's Mace does nothing besides be cursed
-Devil Mace surprisingly changes your breath element to dark, though of course only Dragonewts can use a breath attack
-Shield of Truth changes alignment to Good
-Hanged Man's Whip makes you lose LUC (???)
-Empress Whip ages you by 10 years (could be useful for monster adventurers that start out at toddler age)
-Oldest Book petrifies you (???)
-Judgement Book turned my Bishop to ash. RIP
-Item Encyclopedia gain INT
-Medal of Power change to random class while keeping levels/innocence, most useful one by far. There's only two in the game

That's all I found so far. But there's many more, and some of the shitty ones probably have a trick to them to get a good effect. In Elminage Original you also had to activate some items while having a certain monster summoned, and they would combine into a new item.

 

[aweigh]

one of the main reasons i keep clocking hours into this game is the nigh-endless amount of incredibly well itemized loot. no joke!

after 90 hours i already know i'm only about 60% done with the game (can't wait to get to post-game dungeons!) and i've only seen about 70-80% of the weapons (i think). i gave in to temptation and looked at the japanese wiki, and while i didn't scour through the entire item list i saw just enough to know there's still good loot yet for me to find.

i like weapon stats as well, and how varied they are; the complete opposite of how PoE does it basically, which is the last rpg i spent dozens of hours on.

every class has multiple weapon choices to make, and there's always SOMETHING unique or interesting you can pull off if you want to like acquiring a rare item, or finding a use for a weapon by uncursing it, or removing its gender-restriction or race-restriction. take the devil mace for example, as you say it changes your breath to dark element but only dragonewts have elemental breath, and the mace is only usable by devil race.

the only way to make use of this is to find a special event inside one of the dungeons that allows the character a random chance to change into the devil race. there is no possible way a first-time player could possibly know any of this convoluted meta-gaming beforehand; and the event itself and the weapon itself are completely possible to pass by, so the imaginary dragonewt character could very well never even know he can use an item to change his breath to dark but only if he triggers a special event in a dungeon and makes the connection to the weapon properties.

the hermit's knife is also pretty interesting and it's probably the best moment i've had in the game so far. i had zero knowledge of this item beforehand and i got it as a drop (it's rare, apparently) and its stats seemed curious to me as they would to anyone and so i decided to equip it and it turned my thief into a ninja. the game never tells you any of this or gives any overt hints about it: in fact, unlike the devil mace the hermit's knife's name does not clue the player into anything about it.

it's fun to be surprised by the game in positive ways. from what i understand a lot of this stuff is conceptually (and mechanically) carried over from wizardry, correct? in fact, i think i read there's a hermit's knife-equivalent in wizardry?

side note: while browsing the jap wiki i read their section on the differences/changes/additions in the 3DS "Remix" of Elminage Gothic and aside from the returned ability to donate gold for XP at the temple all of the changes are unnecessary mainstream/convenience changes made for handheld usage. they added "shortcut exits" out of most of the story-line dungeons as well as lowered the levels and stats of random enemies; however they RAISED the levels and stats of the floor masters. they added a dozen or so new weapons but that's not really that enticing considering the base game already has hundreds of them.

amusingly the jap wiki itself ends their summation of the changes as "many changes made evok modern feel of gameplay compare to original wizardry style" (google translation).

 

[aweigh]

just beat cycloneous. was a bit a disappointed (i hit him with a sleep lol)

at least i know the content coming up next is gonna be twice as hard

EDIT: i used the medal of power to change my samura (i was running a lord/fighter/samurai/ninja/bishop/alchemist team) to change my samurai into a summoner. i kept reloading until it did.

caught myself my first pokemon; a leprechaun from the tunnels haha

 

[aweigh]

my fucking jaw is on the floor right now. an arch demon USED MIRACLE WISH TO TELEPORT ME AND I WAS TELEPORTED INSIDE THE STONE WALLS.

"your party was annihilated".

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

 

[Courtier]

Just wait until you reach the Cave of the Ancients, this is getting surreal. I've literally entered Wizardry 1. Did the developers go insane at the end of production? I'm going down the rabbithole but it just keeps getting deeper. This game offers you a red pill like Morpheus and then crams a whole bottle down your throat. NPCs are popping up everywhere to subtly break the fourth wall and make fun of the player. There's sheep sleeping in the corridors and doppleganger doorkeepers blocking the way deeper into this nightmare. I'm not even at the Tower yet. SOMEBODY SEND HELP

 

[aweigh]

the most incredible thing about this post-game experience is that it's the best the game has been, ever. every single fight forces you to be RESOURCEFUL, and since the enemies literally CHEAT (multiple turns / and they use spells like Imoraleti over and over even though for the player that spell is 1 use only), fuck they can TELEPORT YOU INTO THE WALL RANDOMLY THERE IS NO DEFENSE AGAINST THAT IT IS PURE RANDOM CHANCE OF MIRACLE WISH SPELL.

what i'm trying to say is i'm having more fun than before, if that's possible. right now i'm "stuck" in floor b6 of cave of the giant soldier god, you know the one that looks like a gaping vagina walls. party's currently level 50-60-ish.

front row is lord/fighter/ninja using emperor's sword + shield of truth, fighter's using Great Club + shield of truth, ninja's dual-wielding a shuriken + an insanely good sub-katana i found called Kuneltsu, its stats are 4-21 atk. rate 4 ACC modifier +4... and it's a sub.

back row is the bishop/alchemist/previously-samurai-cum-summoner-who-is-utterly-useless except at capturing monsters. to out fit her i had to buy ragged/torn Cursed gear from the shop and uncurse it just so she could have smothing with 1 ac in each slot. right now i have captured a red cap :D

their behead chance is BANANAS. i want to get a brawler-type tho. but the problem is the summoner char is only around level 48, and i don't have a brawler to lower resistances. took a long time to get the red cap... quesiton: could i roll a new Brawler char, pay him up to level 10-15 real quick with some gold (i have endless game riches, heh) and use his group attack to lower enemy resistance even though he'll be hitting for like 10 dmg? the only thing that matters is that he hits them right? how's that work?

 

[Courtier]

When a brawler does a 4-hit combo (you get the ''fainted'' message) every resistance of the enemy is lowered by a flat 20% regardless of damage, for the turn immediately following it only. This means that if your ninja then gets his turn and defends or something, the resistance hit is wasted. You can set turn order (Page Up on keyboard/L1 on controller) or have the other characters run away to make sure you get it right. Unarm your brawler so he doesn't kill the monster while beating it up. Disable it with status ailments to make things easier. Your brawler is going to miss a lot, especially at lower levels.

When your summoner is 10+ levels above the monster, you only have to roll higher than its resistance with two d100s on contract cast. That still makes most monsters borderline impossible to catch normally, since with a 90% resistance (all devil race monsters) you have a 1% chance to succeed both rolls. Floor masters all have 99% summon resistance, so you have a 0.1% chance to catch them at best. This is why brawlers are invaluable, their hits are the only way to lower summon resistance (rapidos doesn't work).

 

[aweigh]

Courtier

thanks for the explenation.

btw, check out this gem of wisdom from the japanese wiki; (while i was searching to see what "elements" what abilities were, such as miasma wave)

"It should be noted that the abnormal state grant of breath, such as breath, etc. of fascination and petrochemical there is no relief means."

:D



edit: HOLY SHIT.

• Characteristic
  • Total darkness attribute damage + instant death
    • If you could not be disabled, but intends no matter how level Takakaro it is allowed to instant death at a certain probability.
      
    • Since the damage itself is not high up there, there is (but still early to watch out) too there is no need to worry.
• The main use monster
  • Haisosarisu, deployment shop, roots less tail, Baikon etc.
• approach
  • Because it is darkness attribute in magician spells, there is no problem if either resistant to more than 100%.
    
  • Since Zefefusu-Razefesu monks Spells if the darkness attribute resistant to 100% can also disable, here it is recommended.
    
  • (Rather than a, there is no means to raise the magician Spells resistance because the case since after clearing that penetrated the resistance in essence almost)
    
  • Some were removed, there is the impression that a relatively low level of the enemy uses, humiliating when a high level of character is swallowed by the crack in the ground.

ALL THIS TIME I'VE BEEN THINKING THAT YOU HAVE TO BOOST HOLY DEFENSE VERSUS THAT SHIT. now it all makes sense! that's why there are TWO different story-line quests that reward you with Dark Seals (seal +1 and seal +2 respectively) in the dungeons leading up to the Sanctum.

EDIT 2: more fun stuff from the japanese wiki:

mage spell from level 7, the "nuke" one: you can increase its damage by increasing the THUNDER elemental attack attribute. in the japanese wiki it says...

-- Enterukumisuta †

• Every time familiar, high-firepower spell of range two rows. This time, initial power has been weakened.
• Instead other skills "magician spell UP", the power is increased by LV rise. → LV about damage 180-250 in about 2000 of human monarch, about damage 500-650 in LV about 1500 human samurai (magician spell UP192%)
• Magician only, power is increased in each attribute correction value of Hikorikaminari.
  • Note that does not increase power in the "spirit Agreement".
• True value of this spell is in when you have selected in the "spirit contract" rather than "magic of the essence."
  • A stable high-firepower was, it is really big for Tatakikomeru ignoring the magic resistance. --

so 1) spirit contract boosts its damage, even though the game says it is a non-attributable spell attack, and 2) its damage is boosted by the mastery skills, so a pure Mage will ALWAYS nuke for way more damage than a bishop/bard/samurai; and 3) apparently you can boost its damage by increasing the value of "Hikorikaminari".

i did a quick google of that word and it says it is terminology often used in reference to natural storms and typhons, and in common usage is shortened in various ways and used as names and nicknames and that it denotes thunderous qualities.

i assume this means it's the lightning one...

also, the "Quake" spell is actually a death spell and apparently has absolutely NO relation to a natural phenomenon. according to the jp wiki that spell is the mage cracking open the underworld to suck them down to hell. literally. in order to boost the chances of voiding the enemies when you cast it the related attribute to pump up is DARKNESS.

accordingly to DEFEND against it you must have pumped your darkness defense. as i mentioned earlier the "instant death" spells from the Cleric spell lists are also darkness attribute, and operate the same way. boost dark attack percentage to increase change of killing enemy with it, boost dark defense to increase chance of nullifying it. this is why when you cast Elanmn on some enemies, usually devil/mytholgy types, it just always says "nullified". they probably have a high dark defense.

 

[Courtier]

Ibag Tower. Jesus christ.

My highest character level is 133, and everyone has the best equipment I could find. Spells of every type. Resistances and AC smithed on every pore of their body. Slaying enchantments for nearly every monster race. Ready as I'll ever be, I enter the tower...

Four steps in, Obi-Wan Kenobi shows up and decimates my entire party by himself. Apparently it's a god, and they're regular encounters. And there are lots of them.

 

[k0syak]

Is he the one dropping the hermaphrodite sword?

 

[Courtier]

I haven't found any sword like that yet.

Spoiler