Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Haplo]

Yeah, I have Ninja and Brawler. Currently Ninja is in the Back, but maybe will move him to front once I find a sub spear for my Valk.
But only 3 Bifei slots... My Samurai and Brawler have pretty decent ailment resistances.

 

[Jasede]

Is there a nice guide to help a newbie like me create a party? I am a little overwhelmed because I don't know how the lategame pans out, so it's hard for me to decide on what class balance to use and if/how/when I should multiclass, and if so, who.

If you can just give me a cookie cutter basic standard party for beginners to get started it'd help me a lot. I'm not as young as I used to be and it's not longer as fun as it was to just learn by throwing things at the wall and seeing what works.

 

[Courtier]

EXAMPLE PARTY:

G/E Fighter
G/N Brawler
G/E Cleric
N/E Thief (remember: Evil can't be in party with Good characters, restriction is later lifted, you can also use the go into dungeon>switch party>join up with the character in dungeon-trick to circumvent alignment clash)
Alchemist
G/E Mage

==YOU CAN CHANGE ALIGNMENT WITH FRIENDLY ENCOUNTERS ONLY BETWEEN GOOD/EVIL, CHANGE WITH SPECIAL USE ITEMS, OR BY USING ALCHEMY PROTECTORATE SPELL WHEN THE CHARACTER IS AT STAT CAPS==

Reclass Fighter to Samurai (can't be evil) or Lord (g/e) in teens
Keep Brawler as is
Reclass Cleric to Bishop after learning all Cler spells
Reclass Thief to Ninja (e) asap with Hermit Knife (this can be used regardless of alignment) or when alignment/stat requirement met
Keep Alchemist as is
When Mage learns all Mage spells, reclass to Alch, Cleric (g/e) or both for spells as desired, reclass again to Summoner as final class


-Beware, the first dungeon is the casual filter
-Use the premade Bishop at the tavern to identify gear
-There is a quest where you find a child who joins you as a Ninja, you can get one this way as well
-Consider switching out the Alchemist for a stronger character (such as Valkyrie) at a later point and keeping them at the bar solely for smithing
-Save money for the class changing you'll be doing later, so that you can convert gp to exp and not have to start from scratch
-At the start before every trip buy a fuckton of maps filling at least one character's inventory, you get the reusable goblin map at the Great Tree
-I highly recommend using a gamepad because of the psp-intended UI
-You can change all the spell names and battle sounds to your liking (e.g. make the turn sound silent to not have it ring 100 times a minute)

 

[aweigh]

Jasede

front row:

- 1 Fighter, Male, Alignment: Good. (In order to later class into a Lord); starting BP distributed evenly.
- 1 Cleric; starting BP favoring Piety. (Once he/she learns all Cleric spells then class into an Advanced class).
- 1 Thief; starting BP favoring Agility and Luck.

back row:

- 1 Alchemist; starting BP favoring Intelligence and Agility. (You want the Alchemy spell buffs to trigger early).

- 1 Mage; starting BP distributed evenly. (Once he/she learns all Wizard spells then class into one of the other spell-casting classes; I recommend making him/her a Cleric and thus filling the void left by the previous starting Cleric who would at this time now probably either a Samurai or a Valkyrie).

- 1 Bishop. Pure convenience and nothing else.

Ex-Skills for the front row:

- Brace for starting Fighter and the starting Cleric, and Chi Wave for the Thief.

Ex-Skills for the back row:

- Divination for the Alchemist, Brace for the Mage and Magic Mysterious Bag for the Bishop.

Tips for the first few dungeons in terms of what to equip:

- For any character who is going to be attacking via melee you will want weapons with a high modifier in the "Accuracy" stat. It is the number right above the damage spread.

- Getting your starting Cleric to learn "Rizefus" as fast as possible will make life infinitely easier. (Resurrection spell).

In case you're confused:

1x Fighter -> Lord
1x Cleric -> Samurai/Ninja
1x Thief

1x Alchemist
1x Mage -> Cleric
1x Bishop

EDIT:

Optimal races are:

- Dwarves, Dragonewts, Werebeasts and Hotlets. Any race can work any Class; each one has its own advantages.

 

[Jasede]

Thanks, that's great.
While I was waiting for your input I used the premade party a bit. Servant is nice, gets rid of micro managing the healing.

I found some elven iron but I don't know how to give it to the blacksmith. In the end I sold it to him, but that didn't complete the quest. Any advice?

Also, how do I find secret doors? Do I just walk into them? Or do I have to cast Milwa (or the equivalent)? Or do I need to hit a button on the keyboard?

Also, is here an auto-battle or a button I can hold down in combat? I often end up mashing enter a lot.

Also, for your sample parties, is race not that important? You haven't mentioned races so I am going to assume it's not a huge deal other than obvious Wizardry rules. (Fairy Ninja = low AC, lizard/dragon = high HP/STR, Hobbit = good trap disarm)

Also, the first dungeon level is really, really easy. I feel like I am getting old, though. When I was 13 I could definitely remember the entire first level map without using the Magic Map item, but now I have to use that shit like 5 times to make sure I checked every door. Decline!

 

[aweigh]

Elven Iron is one of the 6 different types of "Enchantment Ore" that your Alchemist will utilize in order to enchant weapons and armor, or to make "utility" items such as the Air Seed (lets you breath underwater) and other a few other cool things. (The Sheephair's Brush allows viewing fixed enemies on the map and it is the only "utility" item I always carry throughout the entire game).

Your party's Alchemist can Enchant or make these utility items by accessing the town inn's "Warehouse" option.

As for the specific Quest you're talking about: he needs "story Ore" which you will find as you plow through the dungeons. You won't be completing that one any time soon so don't sweat it.

This is the link to the English-language Elminage: Gothic wikia which contains all of the important information: http://elminage-gothic.wikia.com/wiki/Elminage_Gothic_Wiki

 

[aweigh]

Oh, yeah: secret doors can be found by:

- Pressing the "Function" key in every wall until you stumble onto one. Tee-hee.
- Thief, Bard, Hunter and Ninja classes has a random chance to detect them.
- Casting "Erod" raises the random chance.

The dungeon maps are brilliantly designed though, and I can guarantee you wholeheartedly that if there is a secret door in need of finding and you can't seem to progress any further then simply open the dungeon map and look carefully at the "routes" of the level; visualize where the layout seems to be missing geography and 9 times out of 10 you'll find that secret door by going to that area of the map and pressing the "Function" button on every wall of that area.

 

[Jasede]

The function key is that default Enter key I mash to confirm actions, right? Kind of obvious question but hey.

 

[aweigh]

It makes a little sound when you press it

 

[Jasede]

Okay, I think I got everything I need. Thanks guys!

 

[an Administrator]

Oh i started without an Alchemist. Is it THAT necessary to have one?

 

[an Administrator]

Also, is here an auto-battle or a button I can hold down in combat? I often end up mashing enter a lot.

I didn't find any auto-battle button but you can press E every turn to do an All-Out Attack.

 

[Courtier]

You can make do without, and for smithing use the premade one. But you really want Alchemy spells on at least one person for the life saving buffs/debuffs. Also you can't reforge equipment (get ore back/use new one) without a high mastery Alch, and will not get an AP boost when smithing so your gear will be inferior. Later it makes a huge difference, so even if you decide to go without one for now it's a good idea to level one eventually.

 

[Jasede]

Oh man starting at level 1 is a lot harder than with the premade level 4 party! Not as bad as Wizardry 1 though.

 

[aweigh]

Also you can sell enchanted gear and then buy it back from the shop and it will be de-enchanted. This is good because then you can re-enchant that gear with better Ore when you find some.

It's very useful if your party Alchemist doesn't have his High Mastery skill learned yet (which allows him/her to de-enchant gear); and/or if you don't have a party Alchemist and simply use a benched one you keep at the Tavern which means he/she will never have that skill.

 

[aweigh]

Jasede

Hey bruh, if you think it's too easy just lemme know and I'll upload my custom modded MONSTER.xls files which I've tweaked for my own personal enjoyment / torture.

For my current PC playthrough (of which I'm currently at Ibag's Tower's 20th floor) I'm using:

- 2x Health dice for all enemies.
- 1.5x enemy HP turn recovery.
- 2 point bonus to all enemy Armor Class.

I recommend you keep playing until at least the mid-way point (Royal Tomb, Volcano, Inner Sanctum, etc); if it's still too easy then send me a PM and I'll upload the modded enemy files).

Trust me tho: shit gets real once you reach the first real "Demon Dungeon", which is the one called "Underground Church". That's when enemies start spamming Tiltowait (Enterook Mista) at your party.

 

[Jasede]

I don't doubt it, it just seemed easier than it should have been because of the premade level 4 party. It's good now. Little easier than Wiz 1 at the start but Wiz 1 was pretty brutal all things considered. 'member traps that wipe you? I 'member.

 

[aweigh]

Traps are the main reason I always keep a Thief around. Elminage traps are exactly as deadly as Wizardry traps. I can't count the number of times I got party wiped, or put into a situation in which the trap left my party too weak to survive back to town due to being too greedy.

Magic spells don't guarantee perfect trap disarming; only a Thief can reach a high chance of that. Opening chests in the later dungeons is like playing russian roulette sometimes: just like Wizardry.

Of course, this being 2016, the adrenaline rush is mitigated due to the fact that in Elminage you can simply reload your last save if you get a bad trap. I prefer not doing that though; in fact my fondest Elminage: Gothic memory was defeating Cyclonus then in the following random battle getting fucked by a chest trap that left only me party's Thief alive (ironically enough); so I had to escape Cyclonus' dungeon and make it out alive so as not to have to repeat his boss fight using my Thief's ability to hide in battle and escape all of the insanely dangerous enemies.

Mid-way through he got fucking poisoned and since I wasn't carrying any Antidotes, and none of my spell-casters were alive, it was a death sentence. I literally managed to make reach the exit stairs with 4 Hit Points left and the only reason I even managed that feat was because I took a gamble during an encounter and took down an enemy while Hidden in the hopes that the chest it left behind would contain a health potion.

It did.

 

[Mustawd]

Badass story

 

[Haplo]

Guess something like this is pretty standard:
Valkyrie
Fighter/Brawler
Cleric
Thief
Alchemist
Mage

Later on you could mix things a bit.


Btw. the Cave of the Ancients really is something else. The developers have balls, I'll give them that.

 

[Haplo]

Oh, late to the party I see. Well, nevermind me then.

 

[aweigh]

Cave of the motherfucking Ancients is probably my all-time favorite dungeon. BTW, the majority of the cryptic dialog from the NPCs inside the CotA are either oblique or outright overt references to Starfish's previous series of games, the Wizardry Empire series.

They also throw in some dialog/references that link together the world of Wizardry Empire (which is the same canonical world of Wizardry 1-8, as Sir-Tech gave them full rights); the references amount to "fan services" that allows the player to head-canon their own reasoning as to how the world of Elminage came into existence due to the Wizardry dragon god L'kabreth.

You can play in English the 2nd title, Wizardry Empire 2: Legacy of the Princess, by downloading the English patch from its relevant thread right here on the JRPG sub-forum. The game was translated by MrRichard999. You can download the game .ISO from The ISO Zone website.

The dungeon design in Empire 2 is Starfish's best out of all of their 'crawlers; and I would go so far as to say that it is the best classic Wizardry title.

(Much better than the lackluster 3rd entry in the series, which was Starfish's last Wizardry game before losing the license).

 

[an Administrator]

Should i change my Summoner to a Mage? He doesn't do too much during turns. (Level 4)

 

[Jasede]

If he's just 4, why not remake him into a Dragonewt thing and take advantage of the Breath Attack?

PROGRESS REPORT:

I cleared the tutorial dungeon. I am switching between the two suggested parties:

Fighter
Brawler <-> Bishop
Priest
Alchemist
Mage
Thief

Adding the Brawler made me clear fights MUCH quicker but it feels like I really want a Bishop later on. I wish the party size were 8 people. There's just not enough slots.

I'm thinking of restarting to try the more weird classes. The parties you guys suggested are really good and the game has been relatively easy so far (until I accidentally ran into the Floor Master) but I am curious how the weird classes play. I think I'll make a secondary party and try them out, something like...

Valk
Brawler
Ninja (the child because neutral)
Shaman
Bard
Summoner

Missing an Alchemist, and so far, the Alchemist has been DOPE. I put HP Recovery on Obi and now I don't even need to heal, it's amazing. And his spells are just magnificent. Party seems really weak on paper though due to not enough spells, so maybe I need to consider making straight up Clerics/Mages, then switching them into the classes I want. I got the hole in Lv 3 now, so I can grind quickly thanks to my Mage's nukes and my Fairy Brawler.

Edit: Fuck, I want a Hunter, too! Just too many fucking classes!

 

[Haplo]

Depends. Do you like summons?
Sumoner generally is a long-term commitment. Ideally you want to be 10 levels above your summoning targets (mainly imprtant in post-game, for enemies with 90-99% Summon resist). And you want these High Mastery Blood Oath bonuses (again, mostly post-game).

Due to the fact you mentioned, it's best to maximize their utility. Teach them other spell schools, maybe make them Dragonnewts to breath fire. Ideally Mage 13 / Cleric 13 / Alchemist 13 / Summoner max
So I'd rather multiclass your other casters to a Summoner.

That said, if you don't care about summoning much, you can still get some good mileage even from a very low level Summoner. I mean catching and binding with a Spirit Pact some monster adventurers. Early picks even a 4th level Summoner (ideally a few levels more, for more slots - more capturing attempts) could possibly manage include:
Golem from Dezaporila Tunnels - Fighter - 50% Elemental resists across the board, immune to Behead and Petrify and 50% resist rest except Sleep.
Minotaur from the bottom level of the Great Tree - Brawler -19 HP recovery and Giant Race resistances (30% all, 50% Behead).
RedCap from the top level of the Great Tree - Ninja - 20% base behead, Devilish race.
Could also wait till the Uhlm Zakir Hall for a Dragonfly Ninja, but that's much later - 25% base Behead, 35% Charm and various other 5% on hit.