Encounter design is king

[BBMorti]

Lie? Don't waste my time with idiotic questions just because you can't play the game. Unless you wish to fight a few selected encounters you will wipe the floor with them by using the wand of sleep. You pick up the evermemory ring near the friendly arm, you go south and sell it to the mage, you pick up his wand of sleep (Usable by any class, as I said) Then the game is pretty much won, for any competent player.

Why are you being such a pathetic liar still? Evermemory is a needle in a haystack, that NO ONE is gonna find short of using a walkthrough, pixel hunting, or playing BG in the BG2 engine to take advantage of Tab-key highlighting.

Sleep only works on low HD foes aka mooks. Yes, there are lots of mooks in the early going but they don't constitute 98% of the encounter design. So, why did you lie?

You calling me a liar is just making evident you are a bad enough player you even warrant the need for creating a scrubby "guide" for the game, which speaks volumes.

It's not a guide: it's an in-depth retrospective on the original incarnation; one that, to my knowledge, is unequaled. If you disagree, pls show me a write-up that is superior. I'm srs, I'd like to read it.

For BG2 I was talking about a single item used by any class to make the game trivial, not a single most powerful class you imbecile.

But the Wand of Sleep doesn't make the game trivial, you liar. Literally nobody is gonna agree with you. Nobody.

most of the tower is still beaten by the use of sleep charge spam, the greater doppelgangers or greater ghouls you might want to throw in a greater malison first, if you don't have that spell, use a few more charges. I hardly ever take any damage playing BG, so if we are talking metagamers the 1hp rest is a none-factor to me, no matter how much it seemingly impresses you.

How are you putting to sleep higher HD foes and MR foes (golems, skeleton warriors). Enlighten me, lil' liar.

I played both the games a lot, I liked them mainly because of the combat and prep-work for certain encounters. IF you prepare, the game can't touch you, like a little game of chess. Go to friendly arm, pick up the ring (for selling) + Jaheiras invis potion, keep the potion in case you get the archer ambush, instantly drink it and leave, sell the ring to the mage, buy the core items (wand + few scrolls of invis and some potions) and you are untouchable from there, if you are competent.

Are you trying to impress me with your meta? If so, it's pretty pathetic. Srsly read what you just wrote. Are you a Metal Hurlant alt, btw?

Not sure how you manage to miss the word metagamer enough times to type that drivel. My whole point about the wand of sleep was from the perspective of the metagamer, stop being intentionally obtuse or work a bit on your reading comprehension. Reading things before eagerly slamming your hands away at a keyboard makes you look a bit less of a fool, shitslurper.

Sleep works on 98% of the foes in the game, since it is almost entirely low HD dice trash mobs. How many fucking Golems and Skeleton warriors do you count in the game, compared to goblins, gibberlins, bandits, spiders, kobolds, gnolls, dobbelgangers, ogres, any type of animal (sleep works on them all from bears to wolves to rabbits) etc. Furthermore the minute handful of undeads, including Skeleton Warriors who could even pose a remove threat you can make yourself immune too by use of a usable by any class scroll.
I can think of three places in the game where I might consider using it, Greater ghouls in Durlags tower/the maze and a crypt where you can pickup a wand of sleep, if you wish it from level 1-2 on some character. Those + the handful of golems in the game, which you kill like flies with boots of speed + a wand of fire are a tiny percentage. Besides those you have a few more it wont work on, like Sarevok or the Deamon. Even greater Basilisks drop to wand of sleep. Add that to your shit in-depth retrospective.

Nobody is going to agree with me? Nice of the shitlord to speak for everyone. Ask anyone in this 647 pages long thread for people who complete the game without re-loads for starters. Anyone else competent will confirm me, as well, that would be people who aren't you. http://forum.bioware.com/topic/124374-baldurs-gate-1-no-reload-challenge/

You are overestimating the hit dices of the mobs in BG, try the wand out, you might be shocked.

I am in no way trying to impress you, I have better things to do than worry about impressing imbeciles. I just clicked through some pages of this thread and saw you endlessly spew one inanity after another, so I figured you might appreciate that tidbit of information with the sleep wand, since you mostly seem to make a point out of being a clueless shithead with an odd attitude of know-it-all, which made my left kidney cringe a bit.

 

[Lilura]

There are no goblins in BG, you excitable lil' fool. But yeah, there are lots of mooks in the early going, that's common knowledge on the Codex. They don't "almost entirely" comprise the encounter design and they don't constitute "98%" of the encounter design, though. So yet again, why did you lie?

I'm a big proponent of the power of Sleep, Blindness, Web etc., but, with every post, you mention more items that are required, and more Sleep-immunes, so it's pretty obvious you're talking out of your ass (there are many more Sleep-immunes, too).

Go and read my in-depth retrospective if you wanna be elite someday, cuz at it stands you're just a witless ape, and a liar.

 

[BBMorti]

You remind me of a Jehovas withness I once knew. She also had the tendency to keep repeating the same nonesense over and over again, hoping it would magically become truth. You can keep denying the wand of sleep solves most of the game for you, it wont change reality.

I am a 6'4 tall guy so you must be one massive hog of a lady since you keep calling me 'lil, calling me 'lil or a liar doesn't make you any more correct or that little in-depth retrospective of yours.

Oh and about those Goblins http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Goblin

 

[Lilura]

Yes, I'm sure you are 6'4 in height, fully ripped etc. But why are you so butthurt about my retrospective, and why can't you cite one that's superior?

Oh and about those Goblins http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Goblin

Uh yeah. That's... BG2.

 

[octavius]

98% of BG can be dominated by a wand of sleep (With or without SCS mod), an item any class can use.

That's probably the worst bullshit I've read in this sub-forum.

 

[Malpercio]

I read the word "balance" with April's from TLJ voice, is p. funny.

By the Balance!

Yes you are right, but why is this a bad thing? Chapters 2-3 is 40 hours (give or take) worth of pure open side quest content and sure you don't have to do it all, but it has little to do with the plot. (plot/story being one of the problems i have with BG2 as i mentioned above). By the time all that shit is done, all the characters are decked out and i'm in the 'it's time to end the game mode'. I can understand if there was shit that you didn't like between Spellhold to Suldanessellar cause i wasn't to crazy about it all myself, but if it's the linearity, and not the content that gets under your skin the most than idk what else to say.

It's not even that linear anyway.

There are two ways to enter Spellhold. The fish town is completely optional. The underdark is a massive area with some optional dungeons (Mindflayer and Beholders strongholds) and a lot of side-content (Elemental portals, Portal-spell prison, Ust Natha side-quests)

The only part I consider truly linear is Bodhi's Lair---> Suldanessellar --->Hell, but what the hell, this game has to progress the fucking plot at some point.

 

[Lilura]

98% of BG can be dominated by a wand of sleep

That's probably the worst bullshit I've read in this sub-forum.

Probably the biggest bald-faced liar I've ever seen on the Codex.

"All encounters can be made trivial with one item, the Wand of Sleep. ALL".
"Sleep works on 98% of the foes in the campaign. A statistic I totally didn't grossly exaggerate or pull out of my anal orifice."
"There are only three places in the campaign where the Wand of Sleep is useless. Oh, and maybe scores of others, too."
"You will wipe the floor with the Wand of Sleep. Btw, Sleep works on rabbits!"
"Durlag's Tower is still beaten by the use of sleep charge spam. It's filled with xvarts, gibberlings, tasloi and kobolds; not mid-high HD foes and others that are immune to or easily resist its effects, didn't ya know?"
"The wand of sleep solves most of the game for you."
"I'm 6'4 in height. You do believe me, right?"

 

[Malpercio]

If the items below are not overpowered, I don’t know what is:

Lilarcor +3
Properties:
THAC0: +3.
Damage: 1D10 +3
Equipped Abilities: Immunity to Charm and Confusion.
Weight: 10.
Speed Factor: 8.
Requires: 14 Strength.


Adjatha the Drinker +2
Properties:
Equipped Ability: Wielder is immune to Charm and Domination spells.
Special Ability: Each hit heals the wielder of 1 hit point damage.
THAC0: +2.
Damage: 1D8 + 2.
Weight: 3.
Speed Factor: 3.
Requires: 6 Strength.


You see, all the cool effects and little details don’t matter much if they are going to make you into a unstoppable killing machine.

That's what you came up with? Look, if you're gonna list OP shit do so, pls.

Robe of Vecna: insane casting time reduction, stacks with the ammy: get your spells off long before anyone else. A munchkin's dream.
Celestial Fury +3: Stuns almost anything, even MR-immunes. Best one-handed wield in SoA. Also the best backstabbing weapon until Staff of the Ram.
Flail of Ages +5: Slows almost anything, even MR-immunes. Elemental damage penetrates stoneskin to disrupt spellcasting. This weapon slays any foe, excepting magical golems (an extremely rare enemy that is immune to magical weapons). Best one-handed wield in BG2, ToB included.
Belm/Kundane: off-hand wields that bestow +1 ApR. This is how you get 10 ApR even before GWW HLA. Tuigan is a bow that gives +1 ApR.
Crom Faeyr: 25 Strength, turns anyone into a Titan. Dual-wield with Crom and solo BG2 with a warrior.
Defender of Easthaven: 20% DR, stacks with Hardiness and innate DR for 80% total DR.
Foebane +5: Demon-killer. heal 4d4 HP per round. dual-wield with purifier. 'nuff said.
Blackrazor +3: stacking on-hit level drain, plus heals/hastes wielder.
Vhailor Helm: self-simulacrum, you munchkin faggot!
Staff of the Magi +5: at-will invis, hits as +5, lvl 30 on-hit dispel, lots of other bullshit abilities.
Staff of the Ram +6: A kensai/thief dual chunks almost anything with this.
Mace of Disruption +2: Vamp-vanquisher. Bypasses Lich's mantle because it hits as +5. Bane of Demi-Lich, Kangaxx.
Shield of Balduran +3: Eats Beholders for brekky.
Shield of Harmony +2: Laugh in the face of common negative statuses.
Carsomyr +6: 1d12 +6, +6 vs. chaotic evil. on-hit Dispel, and wieldable by pallys and UAI thieves.
Gram the Sword of Grief +5: drain bosses 10lvls/rnd.
Psion's Blade +5: anti-illithid wield.
Ixil's Spike +6: capable of impaling bosses, very dmging wield.
Spear +3: Impaler: this is what you wield b4 you get Ixil's, +10 piercing dmg for romping SoA.
Axe of the Unyielding +5: 10% vorpal, its 3 HP/round regen stacks with Gaxx.
Ravager +6: 1d10 +6 +3d6. In addition, Sarevok has 15% vorpal on any non-boss wielding this.

List is not exhaustive, not by a long shot. Not to mention all the Str girdles, magic protection items, OP armors, perma-haste items (whole party has perma-haste) etc.

I'm not sure what's the argument here? Because:

- You don't get most of these items until midway game-beat some of the "major" questlines. Yes, some of them like Robe of Vecna and the Shield of Balduran (both from come from extra merchants, eh)
are accessible asap, but don't tell me you can break the game with the Robe of Vecna or the Shield of Balduran. Celestial Fury is the only one truly broken that can be accessed asap, but I seriously doubt any new player who wanders by accident into the Celestial Fury building is going to have easy time dealing with one of the harder encounter in the game. And if they do...

- A lot of these items come from hard fights. You need to beat a fucking evil dragon for Carsomyr. The already mentioned Celestial Fury is behind a very tough group of enemies that will most likely wipe you if you run into them by accident. Crom Faeyr needs to be forged. This is one of the aspect that made BG2 itemization so good. A lot of powerful, unique items are behind very tough-endgame fights. Or behind a lot of gold. A lot of today games fail by giving you random trash with % defense and damage if you beat some of the world strongest foes.

- Some of them necessitate of a particular setup to be effective. You mention Staff of the Ram+6 Kensai/Thief, yes, because I'm going to know that on my first playthought. The Celestial Fury is a fucking KATANA. It's not like you can load everything you find on CHARNAME and Minsc and call it a day. Of course I may do that in further playthought, but why would I do replay the game if itemization is not fun? The fact that people like to come up with so many different combinations to "break" the game is a testament on how much BG2 itemization and encounter design stuck with people. Items and encounters are not forgotten, they are not random trash.

- This is a mid-high level D&D campaign. If we don't get tons of magic items now, then when? It's not like we spend 90% of the campaign fighting wolves. Enemies include some of the most powerful foes in D&D bestiary, you fight golems, elements, high-level vampires, lich and demi-lich, dragons, high-level groups of foes and high-level mages. They give you powerful items because you are fighting powerful foes.

 

[Lilura]

Call me a stick in the mud, but BG2 itemization is grotesquely generous compared to its predecessor.

A few points:

-Extra merchants are in the final, offical patch by BioWare (well, Deidre, at least); and in the GoG version, too. It's been like this for over a decade.
-Most ppl are gonna roll with a six person party, so there is almost always someone who can wield/wear the items. You speak of first playthroughs; well, maiden runs are not solos, so slap them on someone.
-Not being proficient in a weapon does not mean you can't wield it. THAC0 is already low in mid-high lvl campaigns. F.e, You don't need proficiency in warhammers to wield Crom in the off-hand for Titan strength. You don't need prof in scims to wield Belm, off-hand, for +1 ApR. You don't need prof in flails to wield Easthaven, off-hand, for +20% DR. Plus warriors get 17 weapon profs over the course of the campaign, so they are not confined to one or two wields; especially not companions who cannot Grandmaster, which is most of them (only Mazzy, Korgan and Sarevok can GM, and GM was nerfed, anyway).
-Robe of Vecna lets you dominate almost straight off the bat. The reduced casting time means you break mage duels. Let's be real, it in fact breaks encounters in which mages dominate, which is almost all. Weren't contingencies and sequencers enough?
-Vhailor Helm gives self-simulacrum by Chapter 2, when you can afford it. That's normally after completing one sidequest. Flail of Ages, Celestial Fury, Gnasher, Stonefire, Frostreaver, Blackblood, Firetooth, Rhynn +4, Belm, Dak'kon's Zerth, Easthaven and Harmony are found/bought early. I've probably only named half of the good wields, too.
-Amulet of Power bestows immunity to lvl drain. Gaxx to poison and disease. Blanket immunities are bad design; the player should be forced to use spell-based wards, kit special abilities (e.g, Berserk) or restoration scrolls and other cures; else, they are rendered useless.

The others are mid to end-game wields and some are crafted in late SoA or are found, and upgraded, in ToB.

The vorpal and other on-hit effects trigger often due to 10 ApR, and that's just OP.

Compare with BG:

(Not saying BG doesn't have OP itemization, btw - Detonation Arrows & Wands, f.e - but I've criticized them in my retrospective.)

Max of 4 ApR. Weapons enchanted to +2 with a few +3 wields found deep in Durlag's Tower (and one in Ulgoth's Beard - a quarterstaff). Off-hand I remember only a few of these have on-hit effects: Varscona, Ashideena (both mild) and DoV (the most powerful wield in BG due to stacking poison).
Best armor is full plate. Yep, just plain old full plate and a Ring of Protection +2 is better than enchanted FP, none of which bestow ele resists.
Best shield is Large Shield +2. No blanket wards; and it's found deep in Durlag's Tower.
No Strength belts (only GoOS for 18/00), almost no MR gear, no +ApR gauntlets or wields, no regen gear (the only way to get regen in BG is for a dwarf who can get 20 Con), no DR gear, no casting time reduction gear, no superior potions of healing (quaffing these can keep a grunt alive against even the Ravager), only charge-based blanket negative status protection etc.

To get many of these items you also have to overcome lethal encounters, which are - relatively speaking - just as lethal as the BG2 encounters (low lvl RNG and not having as many options at your disposal).

 

[BBMorti]

That's probably the worst bullshit I've read in this sub-forum.

The No-reload thread I linked gives more than 600 pages of proof. Being as bad, or worse, at the game as Lilura will make many things seem 'bullshit', that are easy to pull off for normal functioning individuals.

Probably the biggest bald-faced liar I've ever seen on the Codex.

"All encounters can be made trivial with one item, the Wand of Sleep. ALL". <-- Yep
"Sleep works on 98% of the foes in the campaign. A statistic I totally didn't grossly exaggerate or pull out of my anal orifice." <-- Yep
"There are only three places in the campaign where the Wand of Sleep is useless. Oh, and maybe scores of others, too." <-- Never said that, 'lil liar, I said there was three places I would consider using the item that makes you immune to undead, it's called 'Scroll of protections vs undead' Add that to your little in-depth restrospective.
"You will wipe the floor with the Wand of Sleep. Btw, Sleep works on rabbits!" <-- Yep
"Durlag's Tower is still beaten by the use of sleep charge spam. It's filled with xvarts, gibberlings, tasloi and kobolds; not mid-high HD foes and others that are immune to or easily resist its effects, didn't ya know?" <-- Never said Durlags was filled with those creatures, 'lil liar, however the spiders, greater dobblegangers, Basilisks (greater and below) etc. will go to sleep.
"The wand of sleep solves most of the game for you." <-- Yep
"I'm 6'4 in height. You do believe me, right?" <-- Yep, why the fuck would I lie about that, imbecilic hog. There is nothing special about that height except I found it funny you kept calling me "'lil' like some teenage diva trying to make herself feel all adult and mature, or you being huge enough to make me some 'lil dwarf

<-- I imagine you look like that on a good day, yes.

Yes, the sleep wand makes most of the game trivial. You being a butt-hurt baddie doesn't change that, nor does your cringe-worthy attempt at being sarcastic.

 

[Ninjerk]

All these years later, people care enough to flame each other over Baldur's Gate.

Tell me that's not a classic.

 

[Orobis]

All these years later, people care enough to flame each other over Baldur's Gate.

Tell me that's not a classic.

Yep. It's just further testimony to the greatness that is the BG series. Love it or hate it, you cannot deny the effect it had on the industry.

 

[Orobis]

My blog may be shit, but there is nothing tryhard about what I wrote. I criticize BG pretty heavily, and some ppl thought unfairly! But if you can find a better write-up - especially one that covers DT in its entirety - show me.

What exactly am i going to learn from your blog? Am i going to come to some great epiphany and suddenly realise: "OMG! i have been so blind! That crazy broad/dude/tranny Lilura was right! BG2 was actually one of the worst games ever made cause weapons are overpowered and it's linear after chapter 3! I need to re-think my whole life! Thanks crazy broad/tranny/dude Lilura i am now enlightened."

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my drunken rambling post that yes BG2 is far from a perfect game but there is a lot it does right. Please explain to me the point of these discussions. what is your logic/reasoning to all of this?. What is the overall point your trying to make here?

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The difference between AoD super items and BG2 items is that the first one don’t make you invincible.

Actually, I pretty much stop worrying about dying completely once I get PA but regardless none of the BG2 items you mentioned make you invincible either, heck they don't even come close to bridging the gap between any sort of caster class combination (which is where true power lies in BG2) and a pure melee one.

The power armor requires a lot of tubes to activate and lore to unlock its final stage.

-Most of BG2 items you mentioned require different parts from all over the world, you can't get them without going through a large chunk of the game content.

-Tubes are pretty plentiful considering the scope of the game, you'll have no trouble whatsoever scraping 3 of them.

-Final PA stage is pretty much useless (considering I can freely switch between 3 modes in combat), 8 Lore has other much better uses for it (such as using machines to boost stats and weakening end boss so you can paste him).

It has lower than DR than most heavy armors. You still can be hit a lot. It has a shield you can’t remove, so you can’t use a dodger with a two handed weapon. These are all disadvantages.

If you're getting hit a lot with a combat focused char in AoD past Teron you're playing it wrong. Regarding those perceived disadvantages, they pale in comparison to the huge benefits (big stat bonuses, high DR with nearly no defense penalty, regeneration), especially for a dodge build.

Craftings and stuff is all very nice, but they don’t make you immortal.

In the context of your complaint about BG2's overpowered gear sure they do (if you have a decent grasp of the systems), more so than Crom Faeyr/Flail of Ages/Celestial Fury do in the latter for a vanilla melee class (that can still get pummeled by a random dragon or a lich) actually. Rendering challenge obsolete in BG2 is achieved through casters (that have an answer for every situation basically), not gear.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

List is not exhaustive, not by a long shot. Not to mention all the Str girdles, magic protection items, OP armors, perma-haste items (whole party has perma-haste) etc.

Wait what? Perma-haste items?

Anyway, Durlag's Tower, all by itself, makes BG superior to BG2. There isn't anything comparable to its encounter design, itemization and resource management in BG2. In fact, DT is the only TRU meat-grinder the IE RPGs ever offered; in no small part thanks to its remoteness/depth, non-trivial on-rest spawns, timed respawns, stingy itemization, and BG engine "resting only heals 1 HP". Apart from the Aurora toolset, it represents the best of BioWare.

Almost inclined to agree, not a fan of BG1's dungeon design on the whole but Durlag Tower is sweeet. Interesting background story, lethal traps, excellent variety of enemies (party vs party, elemental challenge rooms, invisible backstabbing monsters, good boss fight etc.), decent loot, good art direction etc. IIRC you could actually get closed-in/trapped if you tried to rest on some levels. Best IE dungeon, I'd say.

 

[Lurker King]

ZagorTeNej I think that the difference is that in AoD you have to master the system in order to survive. If you survive Teron, you can survive the rest of the game. It’s only hard to die if you have a combat focused character and mastered the system, not because the special items are game breaking. It’s not as if you are going to die all the time without them, because what truly matter is whether you have the right stats and understood the system. The system is tough, but fair. If you learn it, you can beat it. None of that applies to BG2. Never mind AD&D rules, you can railroad the entire game like a buffoon, just clicking in things like a one trick pony and showered with an overabundance of magical items. Sometimes you even carry unused overpowered items because you feel sorry to throw them away. What a waste.

 

[Space Insect]

ZagorTeNej I think that the difference is that in AoD you have to master the system in order to survive. If you survive Teron, you can survive the rest of the game. It’s only hard to die if you have a combat focused character and mastered the system, not because the special items are game breaking. It’s not as if you are going to die all the time without them, because what truly matter is whether you have the right stats and understood the system. The system is tough, but fair. If you learn it, you can beat it. None of that applies to BG2. Never mind AD&D rules, you can railroad the entire game like a buffoon, just clicking in things like a one trick pony and showered with an overabundance of magical items. Sometimes you even carry unused overpowered items because you feel sorry to throw them away. What a waste.

If you didn't have a clue about any AD&D rules or any mechanics of the game, how would you know what is OP? How would you know which weapon parts you should actually save and which you should buy? How would you know which spells are incredibly OP and that casters become gods near the end of the game? I certaintly don't think that you can beat BG2 by just selecting all your characters and then clicking attack like you seem to believe works.

 

[octavius]

The funny thing about the BG games is that those players who are experts at them are also those who dislike the games the most.

 

[Lilura]

What exactly am i going to learn from your blog? Am i going to come to some great epiphany and suddenly realise: "OMG! i have been so blind! That crazy broad/dude/tranny Lilura was right! BG2 was actually one of the worst games ever made cause weapons are overpowered and it's linear after chapter 3! I need to re-think my whole life! Thanks crazy broad/tranny/dude Lilura i am now enlightened."

Thanks for the admission (that there are no write-ups superior to mine). The lil' liar admitted it, too, by attacking my retrospective without citing a superior one, when prompted.

Please explain to me the point of these discussions. what is your logic/reasoning to all of this?. What is the overall point your trying to make here?

Are you new to the Codex? BG2 is madly overrated here, even by those who haven't played BG (or have only played BG in the BG2 engine, using Tutu, BGT or EE - which is the same as not playing BG). Durlag's Tower, historically, has had little love here, or elsewhere. And yet, it represents the best of BioWare, along with the Aurora toolset for NWN.

We haven't even got to the worst of BG2. Someone just happened to pull the critics up on their itemization concerns. BG2's encounter design is trivialized in worse ways than that.

Wait what? Perma-haste items?

Items that bestow perma-haste. You don't need me to list them or tell you why they suck so much, do you? Party can outrun foes, party can easily backtrack out of a dungeon to rest/restock/recompose party, haste reducing the tedium of doing so. Shit design.

Anyway, Durlag's Tower, all by itself, makes BG superior to BG2. There isn't anything comparable to its encounter design, itemization and resource management in BG2. In fact, DT is the only TRU meat-grinder the IE RPGs ever offered; in no small part thanks to its remoteness/depth, non-trivial on-rest spawns, timed respawns, stingy itemization, and BG engine "resting only heals 1 HP". Apart from the Aurora toolset, it represents the best of BioWare.

Almost inclined to agree, not a fan of BG1's dungeon design on the whole but Durlag Tower is sweeet. Interesting background story, lethal traps, excellent variety of enemies (party vs party, elemental challenge rooms, invisible backstabbing monsters, good boss fight etc.), decent loot, good art direction etc. IIRC you could actually get closed-in/trapped if you tried to rest on some levels. Best IE dungeon, I'd say.

Almost? Not sure how anyone with good taste can disagree. Anyway, the lead writer of BG answered a few of my Qs and gave insights into DT and riddlecraft, here. It's a good read.

 

[Zetor]

Well, if we're looking at it like that, I didn't find Durlag's Tower that difficult either (and yes, I played the original BG-TOTSC, blind) combat-wise... the traps and overall setup were cool, though. My recollection from 16+ years ago has my teenaged self spamming arrows of detonation that basically mowed down almost everything in there by themselves (the chessboard fight was particularly hilarious). Arrows of dispelling for the few tricky enemies including aec-letec.

 

[Lilura]

The funny thing about the BG games is that those players who are experts at them are also those who dislike the games the most.

Misspent youth.

 

[Orobis]

Thanks for the admission (that there are no write-ups superior to mine).

The lil' liar admitted it, too, by attacking my retrospective without citing a superior one, when prompted.

Are you new to the Codex?

Joined: Aug 8, 2015

BG2 is madly overrated here, even by those who haven't played BG (or have only played BG in the BG2 engine, using Tutu, BGT or EE - which is the same as not playing BG). Durlag's Tower, historically, has had little love here, or elsewhere. And yet, it represents the best of BioWare, along with the Aurora toolset for NWN.

So that's it? that's what all the hubbub is about? To kick BG2 down a notch and bring BG1 up one? wow ok, You go girl.

We haven't even got to the worst of BG2

 

[Malpercio]

ZagorTeNej I think that the difference is that in AoD you have to master the system in order to survive. If you survive Teron, you can survive the rest of the game. It’s only hard to die if you have a combat focused character and mastered the system, not because the special items are game breaking. It’s not as if you are going to die all the time without them, because what truly matter is whether you have the right stats and understood the system. The system is tough, but fair. If you learn it, you can beat it. None of that applies to BG2. Never mind AD&D rules, you can railroad the entire game like a buffoon, just clicking in things like a one trick pony and showered with an overabundance of magical items. Sometimes you even carry unused overpowered items because you feel sorry to throw them away. What a waste.

I can BS on it. Extreme BS.

My 10 years old self who played BG2 for the first time barely manage to pull himself together, I even remember giving all my gold away to the Black Dragon. The game just throws to much different shits and situations at you that you just can't click on things and hope for the best.

Today I have a solid understanding of D&D ruleset, what magics do and when to use them, and I can easily beat the game strongest foes with the right buffs and debuffs.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Items that bestow perma-haste. You don't need me to list them or tell you why they suck so much, do you? Party can outrun foes, party can easily backtrack out of a dungeon to rest/restock/recompose party, haste reducing the tedium of doing so. Shit design.

Well they increase movement speed, don't give you the full benefit of the haste spell. There aren't that many in BG2 (off the top of my head, you can get 3 not including Watcher Keep), only in ToB you can equip the whole party.

Almost? Not sure how anyone with good taste can disagree.

I agree that Durlag Tower represents the apex of Bioware when it comes do dungeon design, disagree with the notion that one segment of the game is by itself enough to put it over the sequel. That said, there are a number of other things I prefer in BG1 like the itemization, exploration, lethality of non-magic combat, character sprites, inventory breaking pause and resting only healing one point (unless you're using a variety of inn rooms which cost money), low-key plot which for the majority of the game revolves around standard "Group of adventurers investigate local troubles" which I've always liked, the main villain and his motivations etc.

Anyway, the lead writer of BG answered a few of my Qs and gave insights into DT and riddlecraft, here. It's a good read.

Interesting read. To what capacity was he involved in the sequel when it comes to writing? I do think BG1 tone is quite a bit different compared to the sequel with the latter's much more epic story, romances and similar.

 

[Carrion]

Anyway, Durlag's Tower, all by itself, makes BG superior to BG2. There isn't anything comparable to its encounter design, itemization and resource management in BG2.

There's nothing that even remotely compares to it in BG1 either. It is not at all representative of the main game, and it's memorable precisely because of how superior it is to anything else in BG1 or its expansion. For every level of Durlag's Tower you'll find a Nashkel Mines, Firewine Ruins (yeah, they fucking suck, sue me) or some other dreadfully repetitive and uninteresting slog that doesn't even begin to compare to any major dungeon you find in BG2.