Multiple Sarcasm
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Messages
- 3,181
You... actually think bleeding people dry with DLCs wasn't their plan?
I'm half-expecting Johan to introduce microtransactions in HoI4.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Europa Universalis IV
- Thread starter Kane
- Start date
I'm half-expecting Johan to introduce microtransactions in HoI4.
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
of course that was their plan all along, but still they're not selling horse armors but complex and meaningful additions.
Multiple Sarcasm
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Messages
- 3,181
Except they aren't additions - they're mechanics that should've been in the game at release, instead of saddling players with retarded ones until you feel safe to ask them more money for replacing them with ones that work. Leaving room for future "additions", of course - I'm sure that "sitting around a fort with thumbs up your ass" will be complexed and meaningfuled away eventually. For a low-low price of $4.99. Pre-purchase now.
We are not yet there but who knows, i might be wrong. The short time period it took a group of bros from Sweden to turn into a group ofYou... actually think bleeding people dry with DLCs wasn't their plan?
I'm half-expecting Johan to introduce microtransactions in HoI4.
(still from Sweden) makes me think that the possiblity can't be completly dissmissed.The worst thing is that there are people here - on the Prestigious Codex that defend this shit. Paradox buisness model started to get ridiculous already during EU3 era but now is in the Realm of Far Beyond Ridiculous and yet people try to defend it.
Andnjord
Arcane
Oh, I'm not disagreeing that if you buy everything at release their DLC model has gotten outrageously expensive, and their constant release of models and music while optional is ridiculous. But if you wait for the steam sales (which seem to happen more than once a year) you get them for a reasonable price. Heck, if you're patient enough you can even wait for them to start development of the new version when prices for the old one drop to low levels. HoI III with its four expansions is just 20£ on steam, EU III 24£, without any sales going on.
That is of course, assuming that they'll ever start a EU V or CK III, their new model could potentially be sustained for a looooong time.
Their model has the advantage of having them working intensively on three games at the same time, and I'd argue with anyone that CK2 and EUIV are better games than their predecessor (you are an idiot if you buy the DLCs at full price thought). Compare to the barren state EU Rome was left in, or how CK1 had to be modded to be a decent game (although yes, the DLC model is the death of a big part of the modding scene).
The way I see it, Paradox games are games with a dev cycle of about 2-3 additional years before you should buy them. Which incidentally was always the case, woe to those who bought EU III and HoI III at release as Paradox has never been a studio which "just did it right the first time". And with the steam sales they don't come much more expensive than say Matrix Games (Gary Grisby's War in the East is still 74£ with its two expansions five years after release and War in the Pacific still 54£!
)
But yes, of course if micro transactions find their way into Hoi IV I will personally hire some Lithuanian hitmen, but I doubt that will happen (hopefully?).
That is of course, assuming that they'll ever start a EU V or CK III, their new model could potentially be sustained for a looooong time.
Their model has the advantage of having them working intensively on three games at the same time, and I'd argue with anyone that CK2 and EUIV are better games than their predecessor (you are an idiot if you buy the DLCs at full price thought). Compare to the barren state EU Rome was left in, or how CK1 had to be modded to be a decent game (although yes, the DLC model is the death of a big part of the modding scene).
The way I see it, Paradox games are games with a dev cycle of about 2-3 additional years before you should buy them. Which incidentally was always the case, woe to those who bought EU III and HoI III at release as Paradox has never been a studio which "just did it right the first time". And with the steam sales they don't come much more expensive than say Matrix Games (Gary Grisby's War in the East is still 74£ with its two expansions five years after release and War in the Pacific still 54£!
) But yes, of course if micro transactions find their way into Hoi IV I will personally hire some Lithuanian hitmen, but I doubt that will happen (hopefully?).
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
The modding scene isn't even near to dead anyway (especially for CK2).
Andnjord
Arcane
Is it not? I seemed to remember the constant release of patches and DLC and the subsequent need to upgrade the mod every time this happened was causing a slow attrition in the modding scene. Nice to see I was wrong.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
That's always been something everyone's had to deal with when modding Pdox games, though nowadays it's at least a lot easier to keep your events working because the new ID systems in Clausewitz games starting with EU4 and post-TOG CK2 accept IDs that have more than just numbers (which means you can essentially bulletproof your event network against patches since no patch is going to cause conflict). Both CK2+ and Cultural Immersion Project (or whatever the hell they call it this time) have been kept up to date with very high speed for instance, and the WHFB total conversion mod for CK2 which was put out just two months ago (IIRC) is updating towards a more fully realized form at a REALLY fast speed. Given the rate at which MEIOU guys for example work, I'd wager that they'll have a Common Sense version of their mod ready to use soon enough, just as an example for EU4.
The main thing I'd point out for why EU4 and CK2 are vastly superior games to their respective predecessors is that they never needed modding, EU4 in particular is a huge improvement over the previous "babby's first Paradox game" standards of its series.
(Also, the new Fort system is probably the best thing to happen to EU4's war system yet)
Andnjord
Arcane
There is a WHFB mod for Ck2? Oh dear, thanks for the info! Is it in a playable state yet?
But yeah, I would have thought that with EU III the modders had to deal with 4 expansions, compared to the 7+ EU IV has right now it would have been much worse for the smaller teams (it's always sad to see the EUIV- V2 converter having to rewrite half of their code every time an expansion comes out).
The fortress have been well implemented then, great news!
But yeah, I would have thought that with EU III the modders had to deal with 4 expansions, compared to the 7+ EU IV has right now it would have been much worse for the smaller teams (it's always sad to see the EUIV- V2 converter having to rewrite half of their code every time an expansion comes out).
The fortress have been well implemented then, great news!
Last edited:
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Last time I checked, yes (a lot of the groundwork for such a mod was already done thanks to Game of Thrones and TES mods). I didn't test it much because they didn't have enough graphics assets yet to give me muh immershun (custom portraits only for the elves and Khemri last time I checked, which was the initial release version).
Anyway, the thing with forts is that they really do give you a lot more to work with in terms of planned attrition and defensive network (forts are really expensive early on, and probably continue to be, so you mothball ones not in priority right now and try to prepare for a war that'll happen next), and limit your mobility on offense so you have to anticipate and plan ahead more now (war in general feels more mobile now).
Development also works nice (for Western countries at least), it provides a more strategic and controlled alternative to the old building system when it comes for mana dumping, not to mention allows for more historical deviation in terms of alternate history economics and imperial projects. I THINK the idea is that it'd also give non-Westerners something to use mana for and aim for early Westernization too (of course, that'd be how it is for Injuns only).
As for bugs, I had the game crash on me once upon making peace with Muscovy, but that was only once and didn't seem to happen for any particular reason.
Anyway, the thing with forts is that they really do give you a lot more to work with in terms of planned attrition and defensive network (forts are really expensive early on, and probably continue to be, so you mothball ones not in priority right now and try to prepare for a war that'll happen next), and limit your mobility on offense so you have to anticipate and plan ahead more now (war in general feels more mobile now).
Development also works nice (for Western countries at least), it provides a more strategic and controlled alternative to the old building system when it comes for mana dumping, not to mention allows for more historical deviation in terms of alternate history economics and imperial projects. I THINK the idea is that it'd also give non-Westerners something to use mana for and aim for early Westernization too (of course, that'd be how it is for Injuns only).
As for bugs, I had the game crash on me once upon making peace with Muscovy, but that was only once and didn't seem to happen for any particular reason.
So I've not removed the newest dlc from inventory to try it out (played Kingdom of Potato for about 150 years before uninstalling) and yup, now eu4 is slightly more polished turd.
Forts are nice, but hardly gamechangers. Development is simply yet another mana sink and rest of the features are fluff at best.
All in all, this would be an ok for a free mod, but under no circumstances I'd pay or recommend to pay any money for it.
Forts are nice, but hardly gamechangers. Development is simply yet another mana sink and rest of the features are fluff at best.
All in all, this would be an ok for a free mod, but under no circumstances I'd pay or recommend to pay any money for it.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
The only "vital" DLC if you ask me is El Dorado (due to covering so much), with the others being mostly something you can pin point around "does the DLC's subject matter give me a history boner" (ie, Conquest of Paradise is really just for people who pop a woody when they think of how many coups they'd get for killing thousands of incoming colonial invaders). The newest DLC for example gives new stuff for Protestants, Buddhists, and Constitutional governments, plus some vassal relations stuff.
Aren't the forts and development a free feature tho?
(Also, I'd say development is a BETTER mana sink than the stuff it replaced)
Yea, the underlying system remains the same no doubt, but I do like the little nuance the forts add to things.
Aren't the forts and development a free feature tho?
(Also, I'd say development is a BETTER mana sink than the stuff it replaced)
Sure, but only because fixed province base tax was silly and the new stuff finally give you some flexibility in the matter. Other than that, it's very meh. Better, but meh, because it still has to work with underlying monarch mana system, which is a completely failed experiment.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
It seems that cash has a more dynamic existence than previously now, since Forts provide a strongly scaling sink for dosh, and overall things seem to be much livelier in the budget if you try to get shit done. Starting 18th century now, and despite having a very strong economic base I don't see a massive surplus of gold piling up all the time and I actually had to pick better advisors over faster building upgrading and upgrading more than just the most strategically pivotal of my forts.
Manpower seems like much less of an issue now tho, since you can specialize some inland provinces with a less important trade good into doing nothing but churning out boys ready to give their life for the fatherland's blatantly evil wars.
Parliaments seem pretty simple as a mechanic so far, you trade off (or bet) other things for a 10 year buff of your choice, though some of these buffs are pretty cool stuff like the development cost discount or free extra base tax points in random provinces. Protestant changes make Protestant the high precision guided munition religion, tailored to your needs (referencing back to the earlier talk about Catholicism and what's the point to it, the Christianity type slider is essentially between the very foreign diplomacy centered Catholicism and the completely insular Protestant, with others being more hard-specialized variants of Protestant).
One thing Development seems to be as a mechanic is that it's a lot more synched with monarch mana than the old building system was, where monarch mana functioned as something of an extrapolation of magistrates et al.
Manpower seems like much less of an issue now tho, since you can specialize some inland provinces with a less important trade good into doing nothing but churning out boys ready to give their life for the fatherland's blatantly evil wars.
Parliaments seem pretty simple as a mechanic so far, you trade off (or bet) other things for a 10 year buff of your choice, though some of these buffs are pretty cool stuff like the development cost discount or free extra base tax points in random provinces. Protestant changes make Protestant the high precision guided munition religion, tailored to your needs (referencing back to the earlier talk about Catholicism and what's the point to it, the Christianity type slider is essentially between the very foreign diplomacy centered Catholicism and the completely insular Protestant, with others being more hard-specialized variants of Protestant).
I still see monarch mana overall as a step in the right direction in principle, since it actually did something to create an organic anti-bloat mechanic into the game. It's not perfect by any means, but I still greatly prefer it to all the silly shit that stayed behind in EU3.
One thing Development seems to be as a mechanic is that it's a lot more synched with monarch mana than the old building system was, where monarch mana functioned as something of an extrapolation of magistrates et al.
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
"art of war" and its use of your subjects' casi belli is something you MUST have. i couldn't play without anymore.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,825
Considering my budget is burnt already, if it's really as relevant as you feel for my gameplay I'm open for donations ;p
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
my "job" nets me 60 euros per week. are you sure you don't want to buy me el dorado instead?
(wtf, what's this, a beggars war?)
(wtf, what's this, a beggars war?)
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
i'd win hands down, i'm the most pathetic being on earth B-) but let's get back to the game, shall we?
MoLAoS
Guest
So I've started my second game, first one was meh. This will likely be the last game of EU4 I ever play because of how they fucked you if you didn't buy Common Sense. I have no expenses but Noosa yoghurt so I threw down. I run a massive vassal feeding system with an 800point custom nation. Fuck it, Ottomans are worth more points than 800 and you can't ever get their 33% core cost without mods so I think 800 is fair. I ditched the English Channel which I usually play as, for instance in my other common sense game I went for Lubeck and the English Channel. Now that Genoa is an end node and Sevilla isn't this shit is ridiculous.
I took the coast of sourthern Europe from Provence, minus the one they split from Provence, all the way to Athens plus every Island in the east, did not take Sardinia, Corsica, or Sicily but grabbed Malta. I have my capital at Liguria and I also collect in Venice. In 1500 I finally did enough shit that I can't sustain the rivals for power projection. I got crazy lucky with my 6/6/6 king living till like 65, I've had 72 but my 0/0/0 age 0 heir died and I got a 4/5/4 so I didn't end process to save the 6/6/6. I ended up with a 5/5/6 king who inherited at around 20 and is 23 now. I'd trade that mil for a dip or even an adm but w/e. I ended up focusing East hard, I managed to get almost every province in Persia for literally free from rebels. I hit Mamelukes to release Syria, hit QQ with reconquest from Syria, got milacc with Ottos to kill their rebels for them, they had 80 force limit and 0 fucking troops lol, managed to release Persia from QQ's Ilam, and THEN the fucking other rebels broke Timmy so all of Timmy's persian lands revolted to me. I haven't got vision on Afghanistan so I'm thinking I may not be able to release them, but I have too many vassals anyways. I've thrown down literally 6k+ on fucking +1 force limit buildings, so I can raise my troop limit to drop liberty desire. I had to take a dip policy for +1diprep and +20% improve relations for the same reason. I have 90k troops in fucking 1515 with an opposite of whopping 39 provinces. I can only afford level one advisors cause of this shit. I finished Influence and Humanist, and now finishing Diplo and then waiting out Admin. If I hadn't had my 45 year reign 6/6/6 starter king and my 24 year 4/5/4 and then my current 3 year 5/5/6 I would have collapsed to vassal revolts.
I have almost full persia, full Byzzie that I am annexing now, full Styria, 1 land each for Catalonia, Toulouse, Leon, 2 land Guyenne, all cores but not all culture Syria, minus 3 lands Iraq and 1 land champagne. I stole Madeira, Azores, and Canaries, but somehow they got down the cost to africa and port has an Ashanti protectorate. Gonna have to steal their African lands. Should be no issue. Aragon annexed Naples, and didnt merge with Castile and even took some of their land. Plus I'm OP. Gonna release full Naples once I annex Byzzies.
I make about 70 ducats gross in good times, my expenses with mil maint to 0 are about 45. All level 1 advisors, prod, diprep, mil maint, would prefer +1 10% force limit though for mil advisor. 90 of 86 land troops, 72 of 59 boats including a ton of heavies. 1519 with 10/9/10 and 3 idea groups with just last 2 dip ideas left. My prestige is in the tank cause I had like 80% and 92% and failed fucking parliament shit plus taking 20prestige hit to give -10% lib desire that drops off over 10 years. My heir is 3/3/4 18 years to my 5/5/6 23 year king, made him general hope, my next heir is better. I'd take like 4/5/2 even. I need dip for that sweet islamic tech/idea cost reduction at 5 dip ruler. I am dutch to avoid lowland revolts, though I have none of those lands right now, shia for heir power and +10% morale. English Parliament government. Get some nice base tax raises, tech costs drops and so forth from issues. I am king cause I left the HRE. They killed the imperial integrity bonus so fuck the HRE anyways. Burgundy didn't get inherited and got crapped on by coalition so it lost all its PUs some lands, and vassals. France is surviving because I've been hitting hard in the East and lack the dip slots of anti lib desire mechanics to finish feeding my french vassals. Or my Spanish ones for that matter. First in score about 850, 2.5x the score of Ottos or Austria since I repeatedly stomped them. 2x otto force limits, they are tops besides me even without any greek lands, and 2.25x Aragon or Otto troop counts, 90 to 42 and 40. 2x the ships of anyone else and about 1.5x the force limits. If I had the cash my naval limit would rise like 78 points with docks in every province. cost me like 8k gold though and I need that to keep spamming +1mil for limits and pay maintenance.
I am 14 techs out from the first annex/core efficiency thing. Which is bullshit. I have -65% dip annex costs from nat ideas, influence and the policy. Costs me tons more dip points to annex than it should. I can't even fight wars cause I got spend my money keeping vassals from rebelling. Honestly free persia from rebels is the only awesome thing I saw in this expansion.
I took the coast of sourthern Europe from Provence, minus the one they split from Provence, all the way to Athens plus every Island in the east, did not take Sardinia, Corsica, or Sicily but grabbed Malta. I have my capital at Liguria and I also collect in Venice. In 1500 I finally did enough shit that I can't sustain the rivals for power projection. I got crazy lucky with my 6/6/6 king living till like 65, I've had 72 but my 0/0/0 age 0 heir died and I got a 4/5/4 so I didn't end process to save the 6/6/6. I ended up with a 5/5/6 king who inherited at around 20 and is 23 now. I'd trade that mil for a dip or even an adm but w/e. I ended up focusing East hard, I managed to get almost every province in Persia for literally free from rebels. I hit Mamelukes to release Syria, hit QQ with reconquest from Syria, got milacc with Ottos to kill their rebels for them, they had 80 force limit and 0 fucking troops lol, managed to release Persia from QQ's Ilam, and THEN the fucking other rebels broke Timmy so all of Timmy's persian lands revolted to me. I haven't got vision on Afghanistan so I'm thinking I may not be able to release them, but I have too many vassals anyways. I've thrown down literally 6k+ on fucking +1 force limit buildings, so I can raise my troop limit to drop liberty desire. I had to take a dip policy for +1diprep and +20% improve relations for the same reason. I have 90k troops in fucking 1515 with an opposite of whopping 39 provinces. I can only afford level one advisors cause of this shit. I finished Influence and Humanist, and now finishing Diplo and then waiting out Admin. If I hadn't had my 45 year reign 6/6/6 starter king and my 24 year 4/5/4 and then my current 3 year 5/5/6 I would have collapsed to vassal revolts.
I have almost full persia, full Byzzie that I am annexing now, full Styria, 1 land each for Catalonia, Toulouse, Leon, 2 land Guyenne, all cores but not all culture Syria, minus 3 lands Iraq and 1 land champagne. I stole Madeira, Azores, and Canaries, but somehow they got down the cost to africa and port has an Ashanti protectorate. Gonna have to steal their African lands. Should be no issue. Aragon annexed Naples, and didnt merge with Castile and even took some of their land. Plus I'm OP. Gonna release full Naples once I annex Byzzies.
I make about 70 ducats gross in good times, my expenses with mil maint to 0 are about 45. All level 1 advisors, prod, diprep, mil maint, would prefer +1 10% force limit though for mil advisor. 90 of 86 land troops, 72 of 59 boats including a ton of heavies. 1519 with 10/9/10 and 3 idea groups with just last 2 dip ideas left. My prestige is in the tank cause I had like 80% and 92% and failed fucking parliament shit plus taking 20prestige hit to give -10% lib desire that drops off over 10 years. My heir is 3/3/4 18 years to my 5/5/6 23 year king, made him general hope, my next heir is better. I'd take like 4/5/2 even. I need dip for that sweet islamic tech/idea cost reduction at 5 dip ruler. I am dutch to avoid lowland revolts, though I have none of those lands right now, shia for heir power and +10% morale. English Parliament government. Get some nice base tax raises, tech costs drops and so forth from issues. I am king cause I left the HRE. They killed the imperial integrity bonus so fuck the HRE anyways. Burgundy didn't get inherited and got crapped on by coalition so it lost all its PUs some lands, and vassals. France is surviving because I've been hitting hard in the East and lack the dip slots of anti lib desire mechanics to finish feeding my french vassals. Or my Spanish ones for that matter. First in score about 850, 2.5x the score of Ottos or Austria since I repeatedly stomped them. 2x otto force limits, they are tops besides me even without any greek lands, and 2.25x Aragon or Otto troop counts, 90 to 42 and 40. 2x the ships of anyone else and about 1.5x the force limits. If I had the cash my naval limit would rise like 78 points with docks in every province. cost me like 8k gold though and I need that to keep spamming +1mil for limits and pay maintenance.
I am 14 techs out from the first annex/core efficiency thing. Which is bullshit. I have -65% dip annex costs from nat ideas, influence and the policy. Costs me tons more dip points to annex than it should. I can't even fight wars cause I got spend my money keeping vassals from rebelling. Honestly free persia from rebels is the only awesome thing I saw in this expansion.
Just buy Common Sense?
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.