Europa Universalis IV

[oscar]

Can't say I've seen many Finn-wank alternate histories.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Alright, ironed out the last few real problems (Iraq had lost its cores at some point, not all Livonia cores were present, etc), but now everything should work properly. Here's Europa Uralica alt history scenario:

http://www.mediafire.com/?69k8drd8cb583vs

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Can't say I've seen many Finn-wank alternate histories.

Actually I'd wager the steamroller in the scenario is going to be the Welsh or Burgundians (Uralica has Eastern tech, so that should keep them in check most of the time).

 

[Grinolf]

So. Anything obvious missing (like muslims/pagans/republics in CK2) that's likely slated for inevitable DLC, or is the game pretty much finished now (cosmetic/vanity stuff notwithstanding)? How about bugs - standard Paradox fare?

There are constant demands for religious minorities and different rank for titles on the Paradox forum.
Also some countries like Native Americans are awful, which is also constant subject for critique. And China diplomacy with it's neighbours and europeans. I am also not sure how dynasty change handled and how much Manchu had a chance to found their own dynasty. Same thing about european expansion into India. HRE also need a big fix contrary to DW version.

I personally want a proper division on nomad and non-nomad. Only not on government level, which was a big mistake in DW, but on province one. So nomad provinces would be not conquered, but colonized instead, with culture and religious convertion. And not all horde provinces must be a nomad ones, which also didn't make any sence in DW. But I didn't see much movement for that on Paradox forum and I doubt they decide to do it themselves.

 

[Sranchammer]

I strongly doubt Paradox will make anything close to resembling pre-Columbian politics nor even post Columbian

 

[KoolNoodles]

I strongly doubt Paradox will make anything close to resembling pre-Columbian politics nor even post Columbian

It would be awesome if they would release a North American/Mesoamerican expansion. Multiple start dates, as far back as 900 AD with the height of the Mayan empire, etc. Multiple religious and cultural differences, not just "Animist" bullcrap. It's sad that even at the 1400 start date, the Aztecs are so far "behind" where they actually were. Numerous temples(which you can't even build), forts, aqueducts, farms, mines etc. spread over a massive feudal-style vassal empire, and all they get is a temple in Mexico and a couple neighbors. Hernan Cortes wrote back to Spain upon seeing Tenochtitlan and its grand market/temple district, that it was a city twice the size of Seville and rivaling the greatest in all of Europe or the Middle East, with a population estimated between 20-60k during festivals. Lazy development.

 

[Malakal]

Yes, truly amazing, lets focus on "civilizations" fighting with stone weapons. You should be happy natives are even allowed to tech beyond lvl 1 in any tech.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The macahuitl was an extremely effective weapon. It's kinda misleading to call it a "stone weapon", when the obsidian edge was sharp enough to decapitate with ease.

EDIT: It also bears remembering that in terms of mathematics and architectural engineering, the Mesoamerican Indians were highly advanced as well.

I strongly doubt Paradox will make anything close to resembling pre-Columbian politics nor even post Columbian

It would be awesome if they would release a North American/Mesoamerican expansion. Multiple start dates, as far back as 900 AD with the height of the Mayan empire, etc. Multiple religious and cultural differences, not just "Animist" bullcrap. It's sad that even at the 1400 start date, the Aztecs are so far "behind" where they actually were. Numerous temples(which you can't even build), forts, aqueducts, farms, mines etc. spread over a massive feudal-style vassal empire, and all they get is a temple in Mexico and a couple neighbors. Hernan Cortes wrote back to Spain upon seeing Tenochtitlan and its grand market/temple district, that it was a city twice the size of Seville and rivaling the greatest in all of Europe or the Middle East, with a population estimated between 20-60k during festivals. Lazy development.

Well, the closest to this kinda stuff is currently converting a CK2 save with Sunset Invasion, I guess. Don't know what it does myself, since SS is the only content DLC I didn't bother with.

 

[Sranchammer]

I was just mulling over randomly so forgive me...

When I talked about expanding Meso America, I wasn't speaking of fleshing out the Meso-Americas themselves, more of their relationship with the Conquering powers and the subsequent events.

Another thing I have been thinking about is exploration. Paradox has always simulated the first Voyages as some RTS or 4X game. Who doesn't go straight toward Mexico and Peru as soon as possible? That was no where near the intention at the time.

I believe an event chain would work better for simulating the first decades, giving them a series of options based on what they knew at the time. For instance, 'Travel West to reach Indies.' or 'Fund an expedition to sail around Africa.' These would then follow event chains that could or could not be successful.

Until a certain date, explorers would be disabled. Conquistadors, on the other hand, would be available to exploit the discoveries they made.

WRT to fleshing out the First Contacts, if war is declared, which should happen nearly every time, they should tailor to their respective Empires. The Aztec Conquest ends with the taking of Tenochtitlan. The Conquest of the Inca ends with the capture of the Emperor, whomever that may be. This could be simulated by event after a certain war score or exhaustion is reached.

This doesn't mean the fighting ends there, however. Particularly with the Incas. I mean, the Conquistadors practically had a Civil War in Peru while fighting a massive Incan resistance. This shit shouldn't be easy by any means.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

In a way, it doesn't really work for a game of this scope. You can't really model someone like Cortez, who is arguably the ballsiest and luckiest hombre in that time period. You can picture the conversations he must have had with his men "trust me bros, I know what I'm doing" "no you don't" "this is totally gonna work bros, trust me" "you're fucking insane" "told ya it'd totally work bros".

 

[Sranchammer]

I'd say Pizarro had more cojones considering his laughable situation in 1532 outside Cajamarca. But I digress...

I wouldn't try to capture the events of those guys, only to get the broad scope of their exploits with some wiggle room to spice things up. Perhaps they fail and some other Monarch organizes an expedition to capitalize?

At least to flesh out the Inca resistance like the Sieges of Cuzco and Lima as well as the Spanish infighting.

 

[Ulminati]

Anyone managed to win the 100 years war with England without crippling yourself?

The best I've managed so far was:
1: Use fleet to evacuate Gascogne and Caux. Use Schorched earth in Caux as you leave to inflict attrition on the biggest sieging stack.
2: Reform my armies into 3 stacks of 12k foot and 5k horse, each under a general
3: Negotiate with Brittany for military access (Royal wedding was enough to sway them)
4: Land 2 stacks in brittany. One in Armor, one marched to Maine and the last on ships in the straits of dover. March them all so they arrive in Normandie at the same time.
5: Reform so the wounded regiments remain in Normandie to replenish (keeping army strength above the stack in Caux).
6: Send the other two to Orleanais and Ile-de-France. The big 30-man doomstack seems to stay in Gascogne until the siege succeeds.
7: When the big doomstack arrives (usually in Orelanais), collapse the 3 armies onto it. (leave 3 regiments to maintain the siege of Ile-de-france). The 17(ish) man stack should be able to hold its ground until you arrive thanks to the river.
8: Reform the sieges and send a cavalry stack to chase the fleeing armies

This gets me to 40ish warscore, with all battles won and 4 territories taken before war exhaustion becomes unsustainable. Bit it costs me pretty much the entirety of my manpower and I can't get enough warscore to make France grant a union. Is there a better way to go about this? Assume I either want minimal loss of manpower + big concessions or a union with France as the outcome.

 

[Sranchammer]

Were you the one who posted on the Paradox forums?

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?711336-If-you-won-the-100-years-war-as-England-without-cheating-I-don-t-believe-you

 

[Average Manatee]

Winning wars like that is all about cheesing the AI by dropping a 20k stack on a coastal province with 5k enemies, killing them instantly, then getting out before the doomstack arrives.

 

[Zeriel]

Winning wars like that is all about cheesing the AI by dropping a 20k stack on a coastal province with 5k enemies, killing them instantly, then getting out before the doomstack arrives.

Incidentally, this is how I played CK2 after I realized how the mechanics work. Holy hell were the naval systems (or lack thereof) broken as fuck in CK. At least they (mostly) fixed that in EU4, no more instantly moving a doomstack across every province in a worldwide empire by only moving through galleys.

Incidentally, what's with the rife culture of cheating on the Paradox forums? If you read those posts, you'd think cheating is the normal way to play the game, which I don't get whatsoever. It's not like EU is hard at baseline.

 

[Ulminati]

@Sranchammer -- No. But I've been trying to get a good outcome of the war all day now. I think I've fought it 10 times or so now. I can usually manage a 3:1 kill/death ratio when I do fight. But France and her bitches are just so many I haven't been able to cripple her without crippling myself as well.

 

[Grinolf]

So. Anything obvious missing (like muslims/pagans/republics in CK2) that's likely slated for inevitable DLC, or is the game pretty much finished now (cosmetic/vanity stuff notwithstanding)? How about bugs - standard Paradox fare?

There are constant demands for religious minorities and different rank for titles on the Paradox forum.
Also some countries like Native Americans are awful, which is also constant subject for critique. And China diplomacy with it's neighbours and europeans. I am also not sure how dynasty change handled and how much Manchu had a chance to found their own dynasty. Same thing about european expansion into India. HRE also need a big fix contrary to DW version.

I personally want a proper division on nomad and non-nomad. Only not on government level, which was a big mistake in DW, but on province one. So nomad provinces would be not conquered, but colonized instead, with culture and religious convertion. And not all horde provinces must be a nomad ones, which also didn't make any sence in DW. But I didn't see much movement for that on Paradox forum and I doubt they decide to do it themselves.

Also Paradox can choose add some new religions: Sikhism, Miaphysitism, Ibadi, Anglicanism. Hussites can also be cool, but sadly they were already non issue when the game starts. Especially since Miaphysitism is already separate religion in CK2, so it is strange to not have it in EU4. And Sikhism is too big to be so boldly ignored.

There was some commotion about Papal State not being in any Tier. So they can think about something cool for them. And Popes still had power in the first hundred years of the game. And one of them could even create a strong Italian state. The Hospitallers also need some love, since they existed in the entire timeframe and played important role in the Mediterranean.

Anyone managed to win the 100 years war with England without crippling yourself?

I didn't play as England, but from preview was clear, that it is much better to give up starting war and prepared better for the second one, which would be much easier. Especially if the France start the war with Burgundy right after peace. It is not the most interesting variant, but definitely the most efficient.

 

[Jarpie]

So. Anything obvious missing (like muslims/pagans/republics in CK2) that's likely slated for inevitable DLC, or is the game pretty much finished now (cosmetic/vanity stuff notwithstanding)? How about bugs - standard Paradox fare?

There are constant demands for religious minorities and different rank for titles on the Paradox forum.
Also some countries like Native Americans are awful, which is also constant subject for critique. And China diplomacy with it's neighbours and europeans. I am also not sure how dynasty change handled and how much Manchu had a chance to found their own dynasty. Same thing about european expansion into India. HRE also need a big fix contrary to DW version.

I personally want a proper division on nomad and non-nomad. Only not on government level, which was a big mistake in DW, but on province one. So nomad provinces would be not conquered, but colonized instead, with culture and religious convertion. And not all horde provinces must be a nomad ones, which also didn't make any sence in DW. But I didn't see much movement for that on Paradox forum and I doubt they decide to do it themselves.

Also Paradox can choose add some new religions: Sikhism, Miaphysitism, Ibadi, Anglicanism. Hussites can also be cool, but sadly they were already non issue when the game starts. Especially since Miaphysitism is already separate religion in CK2, so it is strange to not have it in EU4. And Sikhism is too big to be so boldly ignored.

There was some commotion about Papal State not being in any Tier. So they can think about something cool for them. And Popes still had power in the first hundred years of the game. And one of them could even create a strong Italian state. The Hospitallers also need some love, since they existed in the entire timeframe and played important role in the Mediterraneant.

I smell couple expansions coming, I can imagine one expanding on Hospitallers, HRE and maybe Templars and another one expanding on papacy and italian states.

 

[Ulminati]

Ok, I finally think I managed to time everything right. Military access to Navarre and Brittany was the key. It allowed me to evacuate my armies and let attrition from scorched earth take its toll. I managed to break the french doomstack as it split up and arrived in Orelanais piecemeal. Their armies are gone and now all that remains is the mopping up. Sweet, sweet victory.

Spoiler

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Do give feedback on the alt history scenario if you try it out, I'm all up for making a few adjustments if stuff crops up.

 

[Average Manatee]

@Sranchammer -- No. But I've been trying to get a good outcome of the war all day now. I think I've fought it 10 times or so now. I can usually manage a 3:1 kill/death ratio when I do fight. But France and her bitches are just so many I haven't been able to cripple her without crippling myself as well.

First time, lost horribly

Second time, won but at ridiculous cost (20 WE).

Third time, was able to pull off this:

Which literally destroyed every unit the french had in a single battle. From there is was merely a matter of slowly sieging a few provinces while a 12k stack ran around knocking down every small army France could cobble together. France was dying at 20 WE, I was chilling at 10, but then fucking burgundy decided that it was time for the reconquest of Calais and with their units rushing in I was boned. And then the War of the Roses triggered a few weeks later, because the RNG has to kick a man when he's down.

That said, I was playing on lucky nations, which gives France +1 shock and fire and massively increases the time required to siege their provinces. I also probably could have gotten 50 WS in concessions in the meantime, but racking up all this WE just for a few concessions sucks IMO. If you are fighting you want to go for the PU, otherwise you could have simply cut your losses/WPed and then gobbled up Ireland/Scotland/Brittany in the meantime.

Basic tactic is to dump 3-4k units in Gascogne. Have (at least) 20k waiting on the coast. When France moves in, move the boats in to land 2 days before they arrive. Presto, you rape them. They'll retreat to Vermandois, you can run them down the first time it happens. From there just keep nailing them. Junk all large ships and spam some cogs from the beginning, then spam more cavalry.

 

[Kattze]

Do give feedback on the alt history scenario if you try it out, I'm all up for making a few adjustments if stuff crops up.

Map of your EU scenario plox?

 

[Average Manatee]

Tried it without lucky nations. Wow, it's an absolute cakewalk now, I underestimated the effect that lucky had.

The tears of the crying baguette are most tasteful.

EDIT: Oh lol. I just realized from looking at your screenshot that England starts with Portugal as an ally who can be called in. I should have done that

 

[Ulminati]

Third time, was able to pull off this:

That's just silly. So far, the AI has been rolling 7's and 8's on its combat dice while I roll 3's and 4's at most. So even if I'm defending at a river I'm lucky to trade better than 1 for 1. 2 for 1 or better is completely unheard of.
On the other hand, while the AI doomstack is sieging Caux and Normandy, it's pretty easy to have 8-10 strength 2 armies sieging every province in the south in turn. The AI never stops its siege in the north, so you can trade territory very efficiently this way.

 

[Average Manatee]

The reason that happened was because the AI initially sent a much smaller force. It was 30k vs 10k in the initial ambush in my favour, then more kept trailing in 5-10k at a time. And yes, that's defending on a river.

If you want to really exploit, look just a bit south to Bearn. If your forces are there they will get +3 mountains (or at least +2 hills) and +1 river crossing. Aragon should be willing to offer you military access. I didn't do that though because it's almost too easy, and using military access to attack seems kind of lame.

Also, make sure you are using Richard. Shock is so much more important than Fire at this point. Other generals might as well be deleted.

I'd recommend turning off Lucky Nations though. It's honestly just silly. If you want to give the AI a boost turn on hard difficulty, which makes all nations slightly better on the economic/management side rather than give a select few nations that huge military boost.