Europa Universalis IV

[Raghar]

If you want a real challenge, try playing as someone of non-white race.

Never have I seen so straight-up racist game. Huge penalties for having yellow skin, and even worse for black or red. No explanation whatsoeer. You are Chinese? Suck to be you. Enjoy your +60% to price of technologies and -1 to all powers growth. Just for being Chinese (or some other yellow).

Well enjoy your +150 to price and -2 growth when you play Aztecs.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

Why the hell Hungarians are still slavic? Is it for gameplay reasons? I could understand that in EU3 because changing culture of a province there was not such a trivial thing like it is in EU 4, so expanding as them was a bitch.

But if it's really for gameplay reasons then it doesn't seem to be helping much. In EU 3 they had to deal with Austria and Ottomans but now they are also stuck in "rivalry" with Poland, and playing as Potato is easy as never before. Even AI can actually expand* and not collapse in first couple years.

*And Hungary is perfect target for Potato because Paradox decided to make Hungarians western slavs for some reason.

 

[Raghar]

Why the hell Hungarians are still slavic?

And what should they be? Mongolian?

 

[Ivar the Boner]

Why the hell Hungarians are still slavic?

And what should they be? Mongolian?

Finno-Ugric. But it would make Hungary only independent country with this culture group. And Paradox would have to create this culture group in the first place, so maybe they are just lazy.

 

[Grinolf]

Finno-Ugric. But it would make Hungary only independent country with this culture group. And Paradox would have to create this culture group in the first place, so maybe they are just lazy.

Finno-Ugric culture group exist and there are two tags where members of that culture group is primary cultures: Perm and Finland.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

That's strange. Hungarians have proper "Magyar" culture in Crusader Kings but Paradox slapped them into slavic culture group since EU 2 and lived happily ever after. I just wonder if it's for "balance" or for other reasons.

 

[RedScum]

It is for balance reason, i think saw a post by either Johan or another dev over at the paradox forum.

 

[Grinolf]

Well, Hungary territory include many lands, where Slavs are dominant cultures like Slovakia, Croatia, part of Serbia and Ukraina. But in game terms South and East Slavs no less foreign to Western Slavs, than Germans. And the only West slavs, Slovaks, don't exist in the game. So I don't see how being slav will help Hungary.

 

[Grinolf]

Also, only now, after looking through game files, I notice, that hungarians are not the only guys, who don't know about their slavic origin. Albanians and romanians are also considered as slavs by the game, only south slavs, not western ones. I think, that countinued examination of culture file will bring for us a new discoveries.

 

[Sranchammer]

Fuck balancing

 

[Tigranes]

It's not particularly hard as non-Whites either. I started as a 2-province Hindu Mewar in Northern India and ironmanned my way to conquering all of India, and actually colonising the East Indies, Cuba, and New England - I westernised in the 1600s. I think the use of fleet basing rights is far too gamey for easy colonisation all over the place, and even when France DOW'd me multiple times the fact that colonies don't yield much war score and they'd have to sail all the way to me to fight on my turf made things not particularly difficult. Was fun, though, and EU was never about back-breaking challenge.

I'm getting into MP which is awesome, have a 4-player German OPMs game going and another where I imported a Latin Empire CK2 start. Queue me realising I'm stuck with Catholic religion and Cosmopolitain (French) culture in a world full of Orthodoxes.

 

[Grinolf]

Fuck balancing

It is interesting, that Paradox could actually defend that particular cause. Since language isn't everything about culture, Hungary had a very close ties with western slavs, but not with other Finno-Ugric people and they themselves are descendants not only from finnish nomads, but also from a slavic population, that lived in that area.
But I still don't get their "balance" argument.

 

[Delterius]

You are Chinese? Suck to be you. Enjoy your +60% to price of technologies and -1 to all powers growth.

China isn't in bad position, compared to other non-european and non-muslim countries. It is the only nation, that can allow to hire all level 3 advisors from the start of the game. And trade factions make tech cost for China cheapest in it techgroup.
Although I find the idea of connection between monarch points gain and tech group very lazy. The same thing with military units, which also based on techgroup, that also didn't make any sense. I would prefer use of form of government and culture for that accordingly.

I play Japan, which is also "Chinese".

In EU4, you have to pay for EVERYTHING with power points, usually Administrative. Want a building? Pay points. Conquered a province? Pay points. Sometimes pay points just because (of comet). And there are very little ways to affect how many points you get. And they are mostly very gamey. Such as suicide your ruler, if he has bad points. Or colony-hop to get a province near whitey.

As China I invested in anti-inflation policies that allowed me to always spend inflation for points. That event that allows for stability and minus 1 for inflation also helps but I'm not sure every 'Chinese' country gets it.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Anyway, for eta on the next and more final version of the Europa Uralica scenario, that'll happen once I culturally and aesthetically enrich (taking suggestions for Vinland flag) some of the colonial states based on where AI tends to go. I've already modified the Jomsviking ideas to be applied to all nations with Norse religion and culture, so axe rapist Kwa can be a thing.

Oh and I gave Karelia a new flag at last. I could have used the 16th century coat of arms ( http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8u5lnx7LS1r8ymulo1_500.png ), but I instead picked the Akseli Gallen-Kallela coat of arms from 1920 purely for aesthetic reasons (I can be swayed by threats, bribes and flattery):

Here's the hopefully final starting map:

 

[baturinsky]

Paradox has more balls (and chains) than Meyer.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

If you want a real challenge, try playing as someone of non-white race.

Never have I seen so straight-up racist game. Huge penalties for having yellow skin, and even worse for black or red. No explanation whatsoeer. You are Chinese? Suck to be you. Enjoy your +60% to price of technologies and -1 to all powers growth. Just for being Chinese (or some other yellow).

This have been discussed to death on PI forums. Most of the time when someone critiques the severity of tech group penalties and/or westernization mechanics, it turns into a loooong discussion about why (and when) different regions of the world were less developed than Europe.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Paradox has more balls (and chains) than Meyer.

As a historical grand strategy (and being niche), Paradox gets away with including slavery in their games. Victoria has more detailed slavery too, since it doesn't just abstract Slaves as a trade good in various provinces of Africa.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Vaarna_Aarne:

Ins't the nation map a bit too... blobey?

Also, you thinking of changing map beyond Europe & Mediterranean? You repealed the Seljuks, Magyars and Mongols, right? That sorta thing would change areas off-game as well. Defeated turks don't vanish into the ether, just saying.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Timur ate all the kebab.

 

[Grinolf]

Paradox has more balls (and chains) than Meyer.

Paradox has a very strange relation with politecorrectness. They try to implement it sometimes and it look absurd with all that amoral stuff, that Paradox games are full with.
Like in Heart of Darkness they implemented dynamic dominions with local culture set as primary, and not the primary culture of a country, that colonized that territory and then realised said dominion. It is later, that makes sense, but they argued that it will imply apartheid and they don't want it. Argument, that looks so well in the game, that named after the most famous book about european colonization of Africa, that full of stuff not considered normal even in the age of european imperialism. Compared to that, apartheid was a pretty trivial thing back then.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Paradox has more balls (and chains) than Meyer.

Paradox has a very strange relation with politecorrectness. They try to implement it sometimes and it look absurd with all that amoral stuff, that Paradox games are full with.
Like in Heart of Darkness they implemented dynamic dominions with local culture set as primary, and not the primary culture of a country, that colonized that territory and then realised said dominion. It is later, that makes sense, but they argued that it will imply apartheid and they don't want it. Argument, that looks so well in the game, that named after the most famous book about european colonization of Africa, that full of stuff not considered normal even in the age of european imperialism. Compared to that, apartheid was a pretty trivial thing back then.

And of course, there's the classic "Paradox is mortally afraid of being blamed of anti-semitism" thing that happens in almost every game they do. They never added Jews in CK2 because you could then kill Jews in CK2, and in Hearts of Iron, well, I don't think the word "jew" has never even been mentioned in Hearts of Iron series.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Paradox has more balls (and chains) than Meyer.

Paradox has a very strange relation with politecorrectness. They try to implement it sometimes and it look absurd with all that amoral stuff, that Paradox games are full with.
Like in Heart of Darkness they implemented dynamic dominions with local culture set as primary, and not the primary culture of a country, that colonized that territory and then realised said dominion. It is later, that makes sense, but they argued that it will imply apartheid and they don't want it. Argument, that looks so well in the game, that named after the most famous book about european colonization of Africa, that full of stuff not considered normal even in the age of european imperialism. Compared to that, apartheid was a pretty trivial thing back then.

And of course, there's the classic "Paradox is mortally afraid of being blamed of anti-semitism" thing that happens in almost every game they do. They never added Jews in CK2 because you could then kill Jews in CK2, and in Hearts of Iron, well, I don't think the word "jew" has never even been mentioned in Hearts of Iron series.

There's no jews even in EU.
Also, this seriously puts a dump on the chances Codex has to make a LP of CK2 and keep a "Jews killed" scoreboard"

 

[Grinolf]

And of course, there's the classic "Paradox is mortally afraid of being blamed of anti-semitism" thing that happens in almost every game they do. They never added Jews in CK2 because you could then kill Jews in CK2, and in Hearts of Iron, well, I don't think the word "jew" has never even been mentioned in Hearts of Iron series.

Funny enough, it is Jews, who ended up offended by that policy. One even can see various jew users, who regulary create threads on Paradox forum asking to change that.

 

[tuluse]

Civ4 has slavery. You can kill your own people to rush construction.

It's models Egyption style slavery, not more modern forms, but they have slavery.

 

[Bradylama]

And of course, there's the classic "Paradox is mortally afraid of being blamed of anti-semitism" thing that happens in almost every game they do. They never added Jews in CK2 because you could then kill Jews in CK2, and in Hearts of Iron, well, I don't think the word "jew" has never even been mentioned in Hearts of Iron series.

Funny enough, it is Jews, who ended up offended by that policy. One even can see various jew users, who regulary create threads on Paradox forum asking to change that.

How exactly is Judaism going to spread as a religion when it's based on matrilineal descent? Mass rape? Well played, Jews.