Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DalekFlay]

People do that or even notice that because the PR machine hyped it up. There are equal or more "openness" (whatever that word means) in F:NV than in Skyrim. Yet people consoletards don't make memes about F:NV.

You can't blame it all on "PR machine," man. EA has a massive fucking PR machine too. There are fucking obvious reasons Skyrim appeals more to casual gamers and bros than Dragon Age does.

 

[Lemming42]

What can you actually *do* in Skyrim's sandbox beside *LARP*?

Nothing much, but that's exactly what people were looking for. If you look for videos of Oblivion/Fo3/Skyrim you'll usually find people doing stuff the devs probably never even thought of. People just enjoy messing with the sandbox and seeing how much shit they can get into before the game crashes and Bethesda know that and make their games around it. It wouldn't surprise me if a good percentage of Skyrim players hadn't even touched the main quest (or at least after the part where you get Unrelenting Force).

 

[chestburster]

You can't blame it all on "PR machine," man. EA has a massive fucking PR machine too. There are fucking obvious reasons Skyrim appeals more to casual gamers and bros than Dragon Age does.

EA's PR machine is inept is all I can say. Like, Todd would hype the "radiant AI" thing like it's the best thing since Jesus reborn. And consoletards would believe him, even when it's only useless procedural generation of fedex quests. Meanwhile, what does EA's PR guy do for DA:I?

For example: the RPS article about DA:I mentions that DA:I has some nice procedural animal population system yet EA's stupid marketing department focuses on the lesbian companions and gay romance but completely forgot to mention this in the E3 demo?! Like, are they trying to sell an RPG or a hentai game? If Skyrim had such a feature, you bet Todd would hype it to death.

 

[chestburster]

Oblivion/Fo3/Skyrim you'll usually find people doing stuff the devs probably never even thought of

Like what? Almost all the "emergent" gameplay in Oblivion/FO3/Skyrim came from the Havok physics engine and stupid NPC AIs doing stupid things. Every other AAA game has Havok these days. And in another game if the AI gets stuck on a waypoint and starts doing weird animation, that game would be blamed for being buggy and its sale would plumb. Yet when Skyrim AI can't jump and can't see a bucket on his head, that becomes an awesome feature and a meme?

 

[chestburster]

A lot of this doesn't apply to what I'm talking about. For one thing I'm talking current market, not comparing Skyrim to fucking Fallout (that's a weird game to jump to when talking about similar titles to Skyrim by the way). We're talking about why now, today, Skyrim sells 20 million copies and Dragon Age sells 4 million or so, Witcher 2 sold 2 million, and on and on. It's not just "more open" or whatever, it's about stupid videos of people putting 20 land mines at the feet of Tenpenny and watching him fly into the sky. It's endless videos of buckets being put on merchant's heads or people resurrecting chicken armies or giants flinging you into the sky. It's that random open world bullshit stuff that sells a lot of copies of that game to people who would never even think of buying an RPG otherwise.

On top of those people are of course others who enjoy other aspects of the game, from IMMERSHUN to story to whatever else. I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying Bioware can make the next Dragon Age as open world as they want, unless it has that kind of weird environment interactivity, randomness and silliness it's not going to catch on the same way. It's not going to become a thing random assholes around the neighborhood feel like they HAVE to play, even if they don't play RPGs, because little Timmy made a chicken dance.

So it appears that Skyrim's main competitor is Goat Simulator.

 

[Excidium]

Skyrim's main competitor is Klub 17

 

[Lemming42]

Oblivion/Fo3/Skyrim you'll usually find people doing stuff the devs probably never even thought of

Like what? Almost all the "emergent" gameplay in Oblivion/FO3/Skyrim came from the Havok physics engine and stupid NPC AIs doing stupid things. Every other AAA game has Havok these days. And in another game if the AI gets stuck on a waypoint and starts doing weird animation, that game would be blamed for being buggy and its sale would plumb. Yet when Skyrim AI can't jump and can't see a bucket on his head, that becomes an awesome feature and a meme?

Basically, yeah, because that's what people went in expecting.
People like the dungeon crawling/exploration and getting shitty items for their character, and there's probably a couple people out there who like the story, but the major selling point for post-Morrowind Bethesda's games is that you have absolute freedom to do whatever you want, and for most people that means seeing how far you can break the game and play the crap AI and physics.

This can probably explain it better - look at the comments of this video.

Here's some choice ones. There's plenty of people ripping on the game, but there's also plenty of this kind of thing:

It's still so fun, though.

one of the most fun pieces of shit i've ever played and continue to play.

So awesome.

Is it a bad thing that i kinda wish the game was still like this just for shits and giggles

It sure is the worse game I ever spent over 200 hours playing

if it weren't infuriatingly buggy it just wouldn't be a bathesda game.

I saw absolutely nothing that detracted from the game.

the bugs are half the fun of any open-ended game. FACT

and so on.

 

[buzz]

It's not just the funny bugs or whatever. There's also the giant modding community, the neat illusion of freedom that Bethesda games usually give you and so on.
Even the idea of a TES/Fallout game draws people. The promise of joining whatever guild or faction you want, becoming a vampire or a werewolf, exploring whatever city you want to do whatever quest you want, the ability to spend tens of hours not even touching the main quest, the ability to kill many of the NPCs in the world, that's a giant part of the appeal. In Witcher 3 you're still Geralt the Witcher, a specific dude with specific friends and belonging to a guild already. Same but less obvious with DA:I, where you're the Inquisitor.
Even the fact that they're first-person games by default gives them an edge, makes the casual players like they're IN the game. Fallout 4 on a VR headset is probably like a dream come true for oculus retards.
The memes and bugs are mostly just a result of the game being that huge already.

 

[AW8]

Don't forget that Skyrim is an action game/FPS (First Person Swordfighter). DA2 is a point-and-click hack n slash game with an ability toolbar and a party of companions. If I was a non-gamer, I would go for Skyrim any day of the week because it's simpler.

And I agree with DalekFlay that the freedom to fuck around probably plays a big part too. Whatever snippet of gameplay I would show you from Dragon Age 2, it would be cinematic dialogues or (somewhat) tactical, third-person combat with lots of characters, or walking around linear levels. That's basically the only thing to do in the game. In Skyrim, I could start up a random stream and watch the streamer engage in burglary, putting a village to the sword just for the hell of it, smashing dragons to death with a mace, riding a horse, delving into dark dungeons, fucking around with traps, ragdolls or just throwing around apples (physics). It's that thing Todd Howard was talking about: "Yes, you can do all of that."

All the famous bugs like giants sending you flying helps too. What eye-catching DA2 news do I remember reading about on gaming sites? That many gamers were disappointed and gave it low scores (the Metacritic thing). And Skyrim? That the newest patch caused dragons to fly backwards (and the reception is just happy laughter).

 

[chestburster]

the freedom to fuck around ...

The amazing thing about Todd is, when people think "game X (Crysis 1, Dishonored, etc.) has more and better fuck around", Todd says "BUT Skyrim is an RPG!"; and when people think "game Y does RPG much better!" Todd says "BUT we let you fuck around!" and when people think "game Z doesn't have any bugs" Todd says "BUT in our game they're not bugs, they are emergent gameplay and it's a feature!"

The black art mastered by a genius business man. I admire its purity. A sales guy … unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

 

[shihonage]

chestburster Nice combination of your nickname and Alien reference

 

[DalekFlay]

So it appears that Skyrim's main competitor is Goat Simulator.

In a way? Kinda, yeah.

 

[Cadmus]

Oblivion and Skyrim. ... that makes people not normally into RPGs enjoy it, make videos and memes about it

People do that or even notice that because the PR machine hyped it up. There are equal or more "openness" (whatever that word means) in F:NV than in Skyrim. Yet people consoletards don't make memes about F:NV.

FNV isn't as open as Skyrim because if you head to Vegas by the shorter north road you get slaughtered by deathclaws and cazadores so you are forced to go south as it is an easier route

WELL FUCKING OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT OPEN WORLD IF SOMETHING KILLS YOU EVER

 

[Spectacle]

WELL FUCKING OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT OPEN WORLD IF SOMETHING KILLS YOU EVER

That's not the point and you know it. If something always kills you if you try to go in a particular direction then there might as well be an invisible wall there instead.

It's easy enough to criticize bethtard logic without acting like a retard, why don't you have a go?

 

[Cadmus]

WELL FUCKING OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT OPEN WORLD IF SOMETHING KILLS YOU EVER

That's not the point and you know it. If something always kills you if you try to go in a particular direction then there might as well be an invisible wall there instead.

It's easy enough to criticize bethtard logic without acting like a retard, why don't you have a go?

no, you're wrong. the difference between an invisible wall and a difficult enemy is huge, why don't you think about it for a while in your spare time?

I was making a goddamn joke but if you're too thick to get it then forget it, I don't have the patience to explain this obvious misconception for the 59th time.

 

[shihonage]

In Bethtard terms, open-world means "walk where you want". It is a shallow concept that negates actual ways in which the world should be open. In this larger sense, FO:NV's world more "open" than Skyrim's and Oblivion's. More open to player influence and build, more reactive.

 

[Spectacle]

no, you're wrong. the difference between an invisible wall and a difficult enemy is huge, why don't you think about it for a while in your spare time?

difficult yes, impossible, no. Explain how this relates to the north path in new Vegas and you'll have a quality post.

I'm not here to argue with you, but to help you improve your posts.

 

[Spockrock]

you could get past the deathclaws, it wasn't impossible, it was just there to ward off people who weren't prepared (i.e. "bethtards")

 

[Onholyservicebound]

• Spoiler

  Bethtard: but in new veges the game basicley says ok you you can side with whoever the fuck you want but you have to go this way and you have to do this and that. preferable i want an actual open world fallout like 3 you pop out of a vault and you go wherever the fuck you want. as opposed to new veges where the game funnels you to prim and if dont want to go that way you get murderd by cazadors and deathclaws
  [*]
  Human: New Vegas is no less open. you're free to go where you want.
  
  If you're not a pussy who's afraid of a bit of a challenge.
  [*]
  Human: Plus there's a couple of really easy ways to get around that shit by going East of Goodsprings..
  
  
  [*]Bethtard: east leads to deathclaws and powder gangers
  
  
  
  [*]Human: Yea.... If you run right into them. No one is telling you to run in with your knickers in hand, begging for kissies
  
  
  [*]Human: God forbid the world of Fallout has danger in it, I don't understand why I can't roll straight out of my crib into the dangerous wastes and hop in any direction without experiencing real threats! Muh hiking simulator
  
  
  [*]Bethtard: im not saying that im saying there puting cazadors and deathclaws there becasue they want you to go a certain way
  
  
  [*]Human: Mate, there are REALLY easy ways around the map at the beginning.
  
  
  
  [*]Human: Obsidian gives you the freedom to go wherever you want, but it also gives transparency, THIS IS THE PATH to take if you want to progress linearly through the story. It doesn't stop you, and I appreciate that, I liked getting through the dangerous parts and feeling the reward of being right at the strip.
  
  Regardless of the why's, I also appreciate that the game has genuine threats that aren't scaled to my level. There's also some real feeling of accomplishment making it through the dangerous(optional) paths, especially when the FO3 babies don't believe you lol.
  
  
  [*]Bethtard: ok send me a vid of you on very hard hardcore mode at beginning of the game and take the cazador path
  
  
  [*]Human: You're playing on very hard and you think you're entitled to insta-win through to the strip lol? I don't get what made you think Very hard was your difficulty, but from what I'm reading in this thread it isn't.
  
  
  [*]Human: Option A;
  Powder gangers are the easiest targets, you stay within the Goodsprings area, range out, killing the coyotes to the East. Collect all their goods, sell them when you get back from trip.. Keep moving, find the teams of a pair of gangers, there're three. Kill, claim the weapons you need (dynamite extra handy, as are their armours) and come back to Chet, sell stuff on. Buy supplies, head out and harvest geckos. Then you've got a good supply of gecko steak to help keep your help up.
  Now what I did was made a save outside of Goodsprings and then went in, plucked a Cazador or two away and went for it as they approached me.
  (It provided me, at one point, with the best death I have ever met in a game.. I was running back to Mitchell on my last legs and had him heal me just in time.
  When the screen came back from the fuzzy black beyond of health I found he had done nothing about the poison, and in the time I took to heal, it had killed me. That's when I went out to look for the bits to make tourniquets..)
  
  
  [*]Human: Another handy one is that the powder gangers are surrounded by powder charges. Great aids if you can avoid blowing yourself up.
  
  
  [*]Bethtard: so you died
  
  
  [*]Human: But Human, I shouldn't need supplies and strategy to win, I want to just hop out of doc Mitchell's at level 1 and win no matter what.
  
  
  Human: Personally I always take the deathclaw route, but I will try the cazadore one for the fun of it.
  (Challenge is fun! This is something that is impossible to experience in Fallout 3.)
  
  Bethtard: that wasnt the point where are you going with this im just saying new veges is funneling you one way and i like a truely open world game like fo3
  
  Human: "Where I'm going with it"
  Is that you tried to use the fact that I died once as some kind of overwhelming proof that you're right.
  When it's not.
  The truth is, you're afraid of challenge and trials and tribulations deter you, so you want to be babied and have your hand held all the way through.
  
  FO 3 fucking sucked for enemies. I had the spend hours playing before I started finding the "dangerous" things and by then they were a piece of piss to deal with. New Vegas sticks them on the door step and says "Prove you got the cohones, bro"
  
  
  
  [*]Bethtard: NO IM NOT IM SIMPLY SAYING FO3 IS MORE OPEN WORLD
  
  
  [*]Human: It's not. It's a big felt-lined bouncy castle that slowly loses its felt lining as you keep going through the game.
  
  Human: Went the cazador route, what I've learned: Cazadores are significantly less perceptive than Deathclaws, LIKE, no where near that level. Cazadore route is much easier, and yes this was my first time taking that route and now I think I'm going to take it every time. Yaaay
  
  Human: *sigh* Bethtard, what human is trying to say is that being a truly open world experience has NOTHING to do with whether or not every direction is easy. Regardless of any pace the devs wanted to set or direction they wanted you to go.
  
  What makes a truly open world game is that you CAN go anywhere. In New Vegas, you CAN go anywhere, even if you have trouble, I certainly didn't just now. btw I'm playing w/ jsawyer.esp which is much harder than vanilla. Point is you can, it's possible, it's easy for some and for others there are ample ways to prepare to venture out into the inhospitable world.(Two stealth boys in goodsprings, sneaking book, lots of assorted gear.)
  

 

[Decado]

People do that or even notice that because the PR machine hyped it up. There are equal or more "openness" (whatever that word means) in F:NV than in Skyrim. Yet people consoletards don't make memes about F:NV.

You can't blame it all on "PR machine," man. EA has a massive fucking PR machine too. There are fucking obvious reasons Skyrim appeals more to casual gamers and bros than Dragon Age does.

This is really what it boils down to, and where Howard's philosophy of "Kill Complexity!" brings home the bacon. Like him or not, the guy knows what the fuck he is doing when it comes to selling a traditionally niche experience to a wide audience.

 

[Lemming42]

no, you're wrong. the difference between an invisible wall and a difficult enemy is huge, why don't you think about it for a while in your spare time?

difficult yes, impossible, no. Explain how this relates to the north path in new Vegas and you'll have a quality post.

I'm not here to argue with you, but to help you improve your posts.

Getting past the Deathclaw and Cazador gangbang on the North road to Vegas is in no way impossible.

Also, while the game tries to guide you down through Nipton and up through Novac towards Vegas, there's a whole bunch of other ways to get to Vegas. You can avoid the North road while also bypassing the game's intended path entirely.

 

[Decado]

no, you're wrong. the difference between an invisible wall and a difficult enemy is huge, why don't you think about it for a while in your spare time?

difficult yes, impossible, no. Explain how this relates to the north path in new Vegas and you'll have a quality post.

I'm not here to argue with you, but to help you improve your posts.

Getting past the Deathclaw and Cazador gangbang on the North road to Vegas is in no way impossible.

Believe it or not, I did it once just by running my fucking ass off.

 

[Nikaido]

Don't forget that Skyrim is an action game/FPS (First Person Swordfighter). DA2 is a point-and-click hack n slash game with an ability toolbar and a party of companions. If I was a non-gamer, I would go for Skyrim any day of the week because it's simpler.

And I agree with DalekFlay that the freedom to fuck around probably plays a big part too. Whatever snippet of gameplay I would show you from Dragon Age 2, it would be cinematic dialogues or (somewhat) tactical, third-person combat with lots of characters, or walking around linear levels. That's basically the only thing to do in the game. In Skyrim, I could start up a random stream and watch the streamer engage in burglary, putting a village to the sword just for the hell of it, smashing dragons to death with a mace, riding a horse, delving into dark dungeons, fucking around with traps, ragdolls or just throwing around apples (physics). It's that thing Todd Howard was talking about: "Yes, you can do all of that."

All the famous bugs like giants sending you flying helps too. What eye-catching DA2 news do I remember reading about on gaming sites? That many gamers were disappointed and gave it low scores (the Metacritic thing). And Skyrim? That the newest patch caused dragons to fly backwards (and the reception is just happy laughter).

Except that there is absolutely no point in burglary in Skyrim. Because you can't ever steal anything of worth. In *good* open world games shopkeepers actually have decent stuff to either steal or buy.

 

[DalekFlay]

Except that there is absolutely no point in burglary in Skyrim. Because you can't ever steal anything of worth. In *good* open world games shopkeepers actually have decent stuff to either steal or buy.

You're basically stealing shit to sell. Potions seem to be the best route there. There are no uber-weapons sitting around in shops, no. Which is a shame on one hand, however on another hand it was arguably way too easy to go directly to uber equipment and steal it at level one in Morrowind. I don't know what the happy medium is there.

 

[Nikaido]

You're basically stealing shit to sell.

Because money is so great in a world where there isn't anything of worth to buy.

Which is a shame on one hand, however on another hand it was arguably way too easy to go directly to uber equipment and steal it at level one in Morrowind. I don't know what the happy medium is there.

Well as I said, they didn't only make stealing useless. They made the whole idea of shopkeepers useless. When was the last time you ever bought weapon and armor from a shop in Skyrim ? there is nothing like, say, the Gun Runners from Fallout 1.
You don't need to let the player be able to steal the very best weapon from a random no name unprotected shopkeeper. You can balance the mechanics without doing either extreme (of letting the player steal the best stuff from the first minute of gameplay vs not giving the player anything of worth ever).

As it is, the "open world" moniker on the current TES is meaningless. It's devoid of any reason and depth. The truth is that nothing you can do in these games really matters or help you in any way shape or form. Levelling up doesn't help either. Nothing ever does. The game is static and scaled to the extreme so everything feels just pointless. Never encountering enemies that overpower you, but also never overpowering enemies that used to overpower you.. it's just static. They managed to make the world dynamics feel static by tying it completely to your character.

Ultimately all these freedom of doing stuff have no purpose in these sandbox. What's the point of these games again? why do anything since nothing will ever change. Why get stronger, the enemies also get stronger on the same scale. Why steal, why kill, why even complete quests. Just play it the way it was intended : it's a hiking simulator. Except that its environment are ugly. Crysis is a better hiking simulator.