Fallout Fallout 4 Thread

[Bliblablubb]

To be fair, FO2 already went down the wacky road a lot more than FO1. Half of the NPCs were comically over the top and half of the responses were jokes or movie references. Even young past me noticed the change. After a short "FO2 is better because it has moah of everything", I actually went back to preferring FO1's far more serious tone over it. Even FNV stepped on the brakes again, keeping it more serious and making wacky wasteland entirely optional.
Heh, the first things coming back to mind when I think of FO2 are boinking some mobsters wife AND daughter, becoming a porn star, super mutants with a ball gag, a chess playing radscorpion and throwing a mine into the grave some poor guy dug up. And many spaghetti western references. Far too many.
Moral dilemmas like Vault City's de facto slavery fell quiet short instead.
So it's not surprising that Beth decided to go down FO2's road even further for their "vision", maybe 'cause they mostly remembered that too and Lolblivion taught them that lighthearted sells pretty good to the consoletards after all.

FO4 actually did tone down the sillyness somewhat, but Beth is still Beth, and writing drama is a lot harder than slapstick humor.

 

[Valdetiosi]

Still can't believe Fallout 4 has abundance of lever-action rifles and single action revolvers. They had previous game to steal them from but no.

Let's have whatever this abomination is.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Still can't believe Fallout 4 has abundance of lever-action rifles and single action revolvers

...But that's actually accurate. Those are still being made and purchased, and I doubt it will stop anytime soon. Lever-action rifles are very popular in USA, and you're likely to find at least one in any gun collection.
Winchester replicas sell so well that Winchester themselves started selling them again after ceasing production for a while.

 

[Valdetiosi]

snip

Accurate to load 5 bullets after shooting one? Or the gun itself?
Yes, the gun is accurate, but it took DLC to finally have one lever action.

 

[markec]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

 

[wishbonetail]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

Radiant quest system specifically disigned to spawn quest objectives at the farthest point you havent explored yet. So, playing without fast travel will generate an overwhelming amount of butthurt.

 

[markec]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

Radiant quest system specifically disigned to spawn quest objectives at the farthest point you havent explored yet. So, playing without fast travel will generate an overwhelming amount of butthurt.

Radiant quest system is quite bad, fast travel making it more tolerable is just putting a band aid on a bullet wound.

Morrowind is still the best example of how to do open world and fast travel right as you can only fast travel via public transportation to several connected locations that dont cover majority of the continent.

 

[wishbonetail]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

Radiant quest system specifically disigned to spawn quest objectives at the farthest point you havent explored yet. So, playing without fast travel will generate an overwhelming amount of butthurt.

Radiant quest system is quite bad, fast travel making it more tolerable is just putting a band aid on a bullet wound.

Morrowind is still the best example of how to do open world and fast travel right as you can only fast travel via public transportation to several connected locations that dont cover majority of the continent.

Yeah. They just removed everything in Oblivion. Temple, mages guild teleports, boats, mark recall spells, land transportation, levitation, mega jumps. It is just sad.

 

[Gargaune]

Accurate to load 5 bullets after shooting one?

That ain't a bug, it's a feature. You gotta understand, son, Bethesda don't make RPGs and they don't make Action-RPGs, they make Development-Action-RPGs: sophisticated, genre-defying titles where you can shoot shit, spend skill points, and finish making the fucking game for 'em.

 

[JDR13]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

Except you have no idea if that's actually the case.

 

[markec]

You'd have to be completely autistic to be against having fast travel in a game.

If you don't like it then just don't use it, but don't claim that it shouldn't be there.

As I said in another topic, problem is when developers start designing both world and quests with fast travel in mind.

Except you have no idea if that's actually the case.

Morrowind had no global fast travel and had a great world design. Oblivion, F3/4 and Skyrim had global fast travel and have shit world designs.

To be fair Skyrim had a decent world but nowhere as good as Morrowind.

And some of the reasons why nuBethesda world design is so bad is because they don't properly pace the travel and exploration. Which ties with ability to fast travel.

 

[JDR13]

Morrowind had no global fast travel and had a great world design. Oblivion, F3/4 and Skyrim had global fast travel and have shit world designs.

To be fair Skyrim had a decent world but nowhere as good as Morrowind.

And some of the reasons why nuBethesda world design is so bad is because they don't properly pace the travel and exploration. Which ties with ability to fast travel.

I highly doubt the level design has anything to do with fast travel, but you're welcome to believe that.

Everything about Bethesda's games has been in decline for years not just the level design.

 

[wishbonetail]

highly doubt the level design has anything to do with fast travel, but you're welcome to believe that.

Why not? Will an adventure be scripted or freeform depends on your means of transportation. Devs certainly would consider this.

 

[markec]

Morrowind had no global fast travel and had a great world design. Oblivion, F3/4 and Skyrim had global fast travel and have shit world designs.

To be fair Skyrim had a decent world but nowhere as good as Morrowind.

And some of the reasons why nuBethesda world design is so bad is because they don't properly pace the travel and exploration. Which ties with ability to fast travel.

I highly doubt the level design has anything to do with fast travel, but you're welcome to believe that.

Everything about Bethesda's games has been in decline for years not just the level design.

Its not only fast travel but that is the part of it.

Morrowind has a handcrafted world with lots of unique recognizable environmental details, because the game is designed around player finding their way in the world on foot. The devs put a effort into creating a world filled with interesting things so every time you move even on a same route you can always find something new. You can drop me anywhere in Morrowind and I will know where I am just looking at the world around me.

On the other hand take Oblivion for example, outside dungeons and cities there is little to find beside some wondering enemy and the environments are so bland and repetitive that you have a urge to fast travel just not to look at the same forest for thousand times.

Adding global fast travel encourages laziness and giving shortcuts not only for a player but for devs in designing content.

 

[JDR13]

highly doubt the level design has anything to do with fast travel, but you're welcome to believe that.

Why not? Will an adventure be scripted or freeform depends on your means of transportation. Devs certainly would consider this.

Devs typically design the layout of the world first and then the quests. Again, I highly doubt they're going "Hey, let's put this over here because we're going to have fast travel".

 

[JDR13]

Its not only fast travel but that is the part of it.

Morrowind has a handcrafted world with lots of unique recognizable environmental details, because the game is designed around player finding their way in the world on foot. The devs put a effort into creating a world filled with interesting things so every time you move even on a same route you can always find something new. You can drop me anywhere in Morrowind and I will know where I am just looking at the world around me.

On the other hand take Oblivion for example, outside dungeons and cities there is little to find beside some wondering enemy and the environments are so bland and repetitive that you have a urge to fast travel just not to look at the same forest for thousand times.

Adding global fast travel encourages laziness and giving shortcuts not only for a player but for devs in designing content.

All of their worlds (after Daggerfall) are handcrafted in terms of the world itself. You seem to have a strong sense of nostalgia for Morrowind, but it's really not as great as you're trying to make it sound. It's better than Oblivion of course, but that's not saying much.

Having fast travel isn't magically making the devs more lazy than they already are. There are open world games from other developers that have fast travel and aren't bland and repetitive.

 

[Bad Sector]

On the other hand take Oblivion for example, outside dungeons and cities there is little to find beside some wondering enemy and the environments are so bland and repetitive that you have a urge to fast travel just not to look at the same forest for thousand times.

AFAIK Oblivion's world is also handcrafted (the terrain was procgened but AFAIK even that started from a rough layout and the procgen was only used for proper terrain shaping, to avoid the over-roundness of Morrowind's terrain and for planting foliage, etc, which isn't something any designer would prefer to do by hand anyway).

The main issue with Oblivion (and Skyrim) is that the entire world looks almost the same - there are some areas that have their own look, like near the Skyrim border, but in general Morrowind had a bigger variety in its environments.

I don't think this had to do much with fast travel though, if there is any potential "suspect" i'd say it is the distant land rendering made it much harder to have large changes in the environments since those changes would have been visible from far (and when an environment relied on visual effects, like a sandstorm or something like that, it wouldn't work at all as it'd feel fake if you could only "see" the thunderstorm while you were in it). Morrowind's shorter render distance made it easier to not notice these changes.

 

[markec]

All of their worlds (after Daggerfall) are handcrafted in terms of the world itself. You seem to have a strong sense of nostalgia for Morrowind, but it's really not as great as you're trying to make it sound. It's better than Oblivion of course, but that's not saying much.

Its nothing to do with nostalgia, Morrowind has a better world then any nuBethesda game and its not even close.

Having fast travel isn't magically making the devs more lazy than they already are. There are open world games from other developers that have fast travel and aren't bland and repetitive.

Im not saying that every open world game featuring fast travel is bland and repetitive but that when designing a world with global fast travel from start can lead to laziness in world design. Which can be seen in every Bethesda game past Morrowind. And Im not saying its all due fast travel but its a factor.

AFAIK Oblivion's world is also handcrafted (the terrain was procgened but AFAIK even that started from a rough layout and the procgen was only used for proper terrain shaping, to avoid the over-roundness of Morrowind's terrain and for planting foliage, etc, which isn't something any designer would prefer to do by hand anyway).

Oblivion dungeons are handcrafted too and they look randomly generated. I should have added "carefully handcrafted" but the point was that developers during Morrowind development put an effort to details.

The main issue with Oblivion (and Skyrim) is that the entire world looks almost the same - there are some areas that have their own look, like near the Skyrim border, but in general Morrowind had a bigger variety in its environments.

Problem of Oblivion world is that everything looks the same and there is nothing to do outside dungeons. Skyrim is actually better at the diversity of unique landscapes but the problem is the color palette that makes everything looks grey and bland. But the diversity of geographic elevation alone makes it better then Oblivion. The difference in areas is still to subtle for my liking and still nowhere as near as good in Morrowind.

I don't think this had to do much with fast travel though, if there is any potential "suspect" i'd say it is the distant land rendering made it much harder to have large changes in the environments since those changes would have been visible from far (and when an environment relied on visual effects, like a sandstorm or something like that, it wouldn't work at all as it'd feel fake if you could only "see" the thunderstorm while you were in it). Morrowind's shorter render distance made it easier to not notice these changes.

Fast travel is one of the issue not only it. Distant land rendering is possible in Morrowind with mods and it doesnt take much away from the game. You need to design slow change from one to another type of environment and not having a abrupt change in biomes. You can also use elevation like mountains to be used a way to create boundaries between environments.

One issue with distant land rendering and world design is that in nuBethesda game you can see pretty much every dungeon from a distance add to it quest compass and you cant miss anything. In Morrowind you can literally walk past a dungeon entrance without knowing its there. I have replayed the game multiple times and have often found dungeons that I missed on previous playthroughs.

 

[Bad Sector]

Oblivion dungeons are handcrafted too and they look randomly generated.

TBH the only dungeons i tend to remember from Oblivion are the Ayleid ruins and that is mainly because they tend to have more than a single gameplay element outside of fighting monsters - but they all look the same too :-P.

Distant land rendering is possible in Morrowind with mods and it doesnt take much away from the game. You need to design slow change from one to another type of environment and not having a abrupt change in biomes.

I find that distance land rendering does take away from Morrowind as it makes the game feel smaller (or if you prefer, the fog makes the game feel larger) and does make these environment changes visible.

The slow change from one type of environment could help but by doing that you either have to increase a lot the world size to accomodate for these transitional environments or simply have less diverse environments. Bethesda seems to have opted for the latter in Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

funny part of fast travel in skyrim is that an alternative actually exists in the game itself: carriages & ferrymen

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Still can't believe Fallout 4 has abundance of lever-action rifles and single action revolvers.

i'm definitely not a gun nut but i want to know. what's wrong with them? to me they look the simplest mechanisms, those requiring the least amount of maintenance, so in my opinion they look the best candidate to survive the apocalypse.

 

[Fedora Master]

Still can't believe this shameful thread remains open and visible to the public.

 

[monilloman]

You do hold up to your account's name

 

[luj1]

All of their worlds (after Daggerfall) are handcrafted in terms of the world itself.

Nope

After Morrowind the industrial algorithmic garbage started, then idiot Todd started autogenerating content via algorithms like vegetation and mountains, and radiant AI for quests, Morrowind was their last PC game and last hand-crafted game

 

[Bad Sector]

After Morrowind the industrial algorithmic garbage started, then idiot Todd started autogenerating content via algorithms like vegetation and mountains [..] Morrowind was their last PC game and last hand-crafted game

While Oblivion has randomly generated detail for erosion and vegetation, the large details like the world shape and layout was done by hand. You can actually open the editor and see the tool it was used to make it, it is quite primitive and doesn't make you a world from absolute scratch.

Also aside from those things, everything else including roads, etc was done by hand. You are grossly overestimating the randomly generated aspects of Oblivion, all it did was to save time for designers from having to place little leaves, grass, etc and other inconsequential stuff by hand and let them focus on more important things. Having those done by hand are a complete waste of time.