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Fallout: New Vegas, on skills and skill checks

Alkarl

Savant
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
477
This is why I like text prompt dialogue, in theory. As a first time player, you can only ask and say things you know about. When it comes to most dialogue trees, skills typically only allow you to bypass/trigger certain encounters, increase rewards, or learn extra expository information which may or may not be remotely useful to the player later on.

Let me say, though, that I do enjoy New Vegas. I think its perfectly serviceable for what it is, and achieves, within the confines of its engine, most of what it set out to achieve.

As far as dialogue goes, and interactions of this sort, measuring effective speech use through skill and charisma makes the most sense.

However, if I were to change it, I'd give players a codex that collects topics that can then be linked to during conversations. Worst case scenario, that npc doesn't have info about that topic. Mix this with a prompt to allow players to learn/use information organically, and then provide lore checks via how much info you've collected on a topic. The info can come from books, conversations, etc.

So, for instance, you meet an npc and enter dialogue. Some sort of UI would appear with all the terms your character knows about, organized in category, along with a text prompt. Once you pick a topic, provided the npc has knowledge of the topic, then you enter the standard:
1.)
2.)
3.)
pick from a list convo that allows for lore/skill checks.

Lets say, in another rpg that doesn't exist (yet), you are investigating a village trying to figure out if someone is secretly a werewolf. You enter a conversation with a particular npc and ask about werewolves.
Since you've read a couple books, learned from experts, and first hand slew a few, an option appears in dialogue to accuse this person of being the werewolf based on info your character would have.

Idk, could work if done right.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,957
Location
Flowery Land
Really the way non-combat skills are most valuable in increments of 25 (medicine and barter are the exceptions, but they're also so pointless as to be useless anyways) is best fixed with a Bloodlines style 0-5 system. If the smallest possible advancement is 1/5th of total possible advancement you never have the problem of being 1 point away from a threshold. 1-10 has the same problem a 1-10 scale for media rating has: What's the difference between 7 or 8?

With 0-5 you cleanly have ranks of untrained, won't hurt yourself, competent, skilled, expert, and master. A guy with 0 guns won't know the basic safety rules, will have random negligent discharges (if you really wanted to be cute you could deafen the player every shot. After the ringing stops the game's master volume gets a little quieter each time for the rest of the save) and can't aim (as in doesn't know how to use the sights), possibly can't even reload (Data shows something like 40% of criminals had guns that weren't properly loaded. Either they didn't chamber a round, used the wrong kind of ammo or had some other incompetency preventing operation. Of the remaining few could figure out how to load magazines to capacity.) and effectively can't use guns (but without arbitrary "must have X skill to equip). A guy with 1 knows how to not be a hazard but has serious technique flaws.

Exact effects of zero would vary across skills. 0 lockpick (or whatever skill it would be merged into) could probably still open doors with some easy to use tools (screwdriver/credit card for interior doors that are glorified occupied signs, those "keys" that defeat crappy locks by being inserted and jiggled).
 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,296
Really the way non-combat skills are most valuable in increments of 25 (medicine and barter are the exceptions, but they're also so pointless as to be useless anyways) is best fixed with a Bloodlines style 0-5 system. If the smallest possible advancement is 1/5th of total possible advancement you never have the problem of being 1 point away from a threshold. 1-10 has the same problem a 1-10 scale for media rating has: What's the difference between 7 or 8?

With 0-5 you cleanly have ranks of untrained, won't hurt yourself, competent, skilled, expert, and master. A guy with 0 guns won't know the basic safety rules, will have random negligent discharges (if you really wanted to be cute you could deafen the player every shot. After the ringing stops the game's master volume gets a little quieter each time for the rest of the save) and can't aim (as in doesn't know how to use the sights), possibly can't even reload (Data shows something like 40% of criminals had guns that weren't properly loaded. Either they didn't chamber a round, used the wrong kind of ammo or had some other incompetency preventing operation. Of the remaining few could figure out how to load magazines to capacity.) and effectively can't use guns (but without arbitrary "must have X skill to equip). A guy with 1 knows how to not be a hazard but has serious technique flaws.

Exact effects of zero would vary across skills. 0 lockpick (or whatever skill it would be merged into) could probably still open doors with some easy to use tools (screwdriver/credit card for interior doors that are glorified occupied signs, those "keys" that defeat crappy locks by being inserted and jiggled).

Look forward to Tim & Leo's game.

Have any of you NV aficionados ever played either of these big conversion mods?

https://www.polygon.com/2015/7/20/9006291/fallout-4-new-vegas-mods-the-frontier-project-brazil

I played project brazil couple years ago, only act1 was done(which seems to be still the case) which takes place in a vault. Don't remember much but it had better quests than Bethesda's, nice C&C & voice acting.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,447
There's a mod which removes the skill check indicators. Won't solve the way the checks are done but alleviates the problem.
 

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