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You know I was considered to give adequate reply to you, but you retarded enough that person that shitting on Russian populace can be considered as liberal. What next, person who calls gypsy as thiefs can be considered liberal too? Or person mocking niggers are liberal too? Pope Amole II was maybe overly critique towards Russian populace, but this does not make him a liberal.
You call this adequate, searching for an opportunity to shit on your own kind just because they're not interest in your indie game that much? No wonder your personal criticism is this... invalid and screams boyish maximalism, too. The lack of research on russian 'liberals' is evident. And a bit of safe space rhetorics as a cherry on top - 'I was going to reply but got triggered and won't'.
There no such thing as grey area in game where exist karma and reputation labels like "murderer" ( I earned this btw just defending myself from random encounters and not killing "civilians"), "child killer", "grave robber" and etc. If devs wanted "grey area" - they should been remove karma and make only reputation in cities matter. And you should have possibility to say fuck off to ungrateful villagers, because this natural reaction to any ungrateful bitch and plot can go fuck itself. I don't know these people, my views are different and world would not end if I decide to abandon these retards. In fact, wastes will become a much better place. Making them ungrateful is too cheap to show "grey area" trick for my taste.
I don't hate this mod and sometimes had fun with it, but it does have problems and acting like it ideal isn't solving any.
I haven't played the mod, so I would not comment on it myself. In general on morality, however, there is a difference between black-and-white, different shades of grey area, and then straight moral nihilism, which is more aptly what you mean; no judgement in any absolute terms, only views and opinions from groups of diferent interest and at best unreliable reputation of personality. AoD did that, and it is polarizing and not really what Fallout 1/2 are in narrative terms. Of course, one can be a quest xp maximizing machine in gameplay but that is beside the point.
What prevents it from being better? F1&2 are management & discovery games. Combat is entirely management based (i.e., build and gear dependent) as the actual "tactics" are only an inch above "click them 'til they're dead". Questing and discovery can be management based or management gated (i.e., you have to keep your stats/skills/gear whatever on a certain level or in a certain shape to keep unlocking content). And this management was absolutely primitive in F1&2. Quest-wise, just tag speech and it'll solve everything. Combat-wise, F1 was easy at all the times, becoming even easier at the end with Mutants having few means of piercing power armor and being shredded by whatever endgame weapons you're sporting, most commonly turbo-plasma. F2 was a bit of a mess with equally easy start and then a sudden post-den jump in difficulty that culminated in literally superhuman Enclave (everyone's special there is all eights and higher). Heck, with stats like that, they were pretty right about everyone else being a subhuman mutant... Anyways, F2 was done in a rush and so, combat-wise, it's a broken mess where you're potent, then powerless, then suddenly op again against everything pre-enclave, and then enclave is so scary that most streamers I've seen (I've checked out this particular fact out of curiosity) are too afraid to fight in both navarro & oil station.
Sonora is better because it has much better quest management - speech is still op but you need other stuff too, you need to actually build your character around that and always keep some free points in case of a sudden check, AoD-style. Combat curve is also much better and smoother - most weapon schools progress very nicely with sole exception of melee where it's disappointing for the majority of the game and then suddenly OP. Or maybe it was meant for cheesing strats, navarro-style? And even this game navarro runs are more complicated than in F2 because they require at least a measure of preparation and are more difficult to pull off - this supersledge rush is what, 100 sneak, 100 lockpick, 110 merchant or something?
There no such thing as grey area in game where exist karma and reputation labels like "murderer" ( I earned this btw just defending myself from random encounters and not killing "civilians")
There's no karma in Sonora - if you pay attention to your char sheet, it says "Fame". And it doesn't depict special icons for "good" karma. That's intended - Fame depicts how well-known you are, not how good you are. And you've earned "Killer" (that's a proper translation) exactly because of this while killing bandits - it's just like Terminator (iirc) in AoD. Likewise, there's a pacifist analogue to that (reach lvl 12 with almost no killing) and it doesn't care whether you're good or not. The depiction of this system is not ideal because, well, it's not a kind engine, but the game no longer auto-judges everything you do.
So after finishing the game I can say it's worth it. It's not as good as Nevada imho. More competent for sure, but more tame and derivative also. Closer to F1, which is a minus for me
Here's quick review:
Looks and Sound
Graphically Sonora is outstanding. Everything is better or on par with original games. Almost every location on a map has its own distinct look and unique objects. New inventory icons are very well made and consistent in style with original. Every major location has at least 1 beautifully drawn and animated talking head. Devs even use some of TH in special encounters. NNM soundtrack in combination with visuals effectively nails dark atmosphere of Sonora. Weapon sounds are Ok.
Story and Writing
I don't like it. To be fair I didn't like Nevada either. It's good for what it does - giving the sense of direction. Story is boring and has like only 1 twist in mid to late game and not even very major. After completing first part of main quest it goes full shit and become a necessity. To be fair fallout 2 story wasn't good either, but it had great characters and dialogs. Sonora's characters and dialogs on the other hand is just boring. Just like in Nevada, there is not a single memorable character in entire game. Some of sidequest's, towns and even faction are almost carbon copy from previous games. For faction though there is in-game explanation. Both major factions send you to glow-like locations, there is ZAX (but it has about 8 lines of text) in underground bunker, Cultist cathedral in major city and many more. Despite all above I think story in this game is more or less fine for what it is. This is not fallout 3 level of writing. Motivations and conflicts are understandable and logical. They are just banal. Just like I said earlier, story serves pure mechanical function of giving you goal to move on.
Gameplay and Mechanics
Unlike original games, Sonora (and also Nevada) is less combat focus and more about solving the quests. Sometimes it even feels like a point-and-click adventure. Some might like it, but I miss optional dungeon areas like rat cave in Klamath or Mines in Redding. Why you need to buy a bigger gun if there is no place to use it? And talking about guns, small guns and big guns perks was completely rebalanced. Now small guns only include weapons which you can hold in 1 hand like pistols and submachine guns. Big guns now also include shotguns and rifles. Also big guns AP cost to shoot is increased by 1. I think that's a great change. In F1 Big Guns was sub-par to energy and absent in early game. In F2 Bozar was added, but it was imba af. Sonora's arsenal is humble. Mostly consists of rifles and pistols. Ammo is very scarce and sold one by one. It's also very expensive, but because total lack of combat it never becomes an issue.
Variety and c&c is where the game shines. Almost every quest has at least 3 classical solutions with persuasion, stealth or combat options. And there is a lot of persuasion options to choose: speech, reputation in town, karma (very rarely), recommendation from someone, other non-combat skills. Sonora even has perk that show requirements for a particular action like repair, hack, dialog check etc., just like F:NV. In my playthrough though I felt that skill checks are too generous. All non combat requirements are maxed out at 100%, except "final boss" 120% which can be lowered by usable items like mechanical parts or lockpicks.
And minor things: Companions were added, but they are mostly used in sidequests and eventually leave you. Crafting was removed. All tools are single use only. Money is close to useless. You will need some, but not the Nevada amount. First aid, outdorsman and gambling is useless as always.
Overall I can say it's a pretty solid experience and you should try it if you liked Nevada or any classic Fallout. It has some problem, but it's nothing compare to its pros.
Eh, the writing is not bad. But I don't see anything morally grey about it, just follow options which gives most XP. Save 20-25 points in pocket AoD style when needed.
Most quests remind me of New Vegas side quests, many are fairly straightforward. And too many are solved with 101 Persuasion by pressing 1. No Nevada New Reno so far.
What is about system turned "upside down" idk, well rifles are Heavy weapons and most checks are hard locked. Which is different but doesn't change the overall gameplay that much. It is not new to Fallout, although nerfed Steal etc. is welcome. There's some new perks like get +2% to all skills (eh?) or shows checks (eh). There's also a lot of rats.
Also seems I hit a bug at end of rangers quest line. NVM just very weird dialogue structure.
Overall this one feels a lot more consistent than previous one, but no high points for now (cleared everything around north-west, exploring Phoenix). level 10, 10 int, 1 handed, magnum, 200+ ammo.
Also I like random encounters, no luls, just setting enhancing stuff.
Overall biggest issue is somewhat dull writing with strong "been there, seen that", even though setting has changed, I don't feel any hot mexico twist except one street urchin girl singing about radrad roaches.
I think Thunderdome's only failing is with how weirdly it is placed in the timeline, and the abominable premise that spawned the atrocity that is Little Lamplight of Fallout 3.
Other than that, I'm fine with the Thunderdome itself. Would've been better if Max was completely stuck in the place and have to fight his way through freedom by fighting in the Dome.
You know I was considered to give adequate reply to you, but you retarded enough that person that shitting on Russian populace can be considered as liberal.
But liberals in Russia are like that - historically, beginning from Napoleon invasion, I mean times supported by documents. Today's liberals are like that too. Russophobia=liberalism in Russia, as its inherent trait.
You said it plural, effectively equating all russians (everyone else seems liking this total conversion a lot, essentially loving it and putting on the same pedestal of awesomeness as Fallout 1-2)
Russian really like shitting on their own products, deservedly or not. The crowd is blind, and after 9 real failures it will try to drown 10th which could be really good.
If game has nuances, there is a risk.
For example, I read one thread about Sonora, and almost always anons keep saying bad things about it, they usually say this - Nevada was good, but this game sucks.
Nobody gives a fuck about nuances and subtleties I already read itt - design of quest and change in tone. They simply have no idea what it is.
As a sidenote I can say that russian imageboards are the most degenerate ones.
The only legit complains are about bugs, and lack of action - I mean fights and not what you thought about.
I actually don't see that many bugs, there are some gaps in quest logic and dialogue where, you might have thought you solved something but you have to talk to NPC 2 more times, or you might have thought you have a more important goal but you have to backtrack whole map again, and then some more; but not really bugs.
The biggest thing that ruins it for me is the very strong Not Fallout feeling, which becomes ever stronger towards second half of the game.
If you ever met a leader of a church which has a personal vault-cellar, or a supercomputer on a military base, or have you ever searched for lost BOS patrol (who are now on a tanker, instead of a bunker), but this time maybe do it in a ruined city with ghouls and sewers... oh wait.
The game sprinkles all this with some good interconnected logic web, which more or less goes as "try and not break too many things by playing a boyscout"; however, it also rewards you heavily with XP for playing said boyscout (up to copypasted wounded people in almost every location: trade stimpack for 100 XP). Also progress and all that.
Naturally I try to break everything, but people seem to be surprisingly acceptant to it, and all the wanted posters don't lead to me getting hunted or something.
Supposedly the best part is leading your Arroyo of untrusting isolated mexican refugees, but they're strangely trusting if you say "I repaired water tank" and "it's ok, we'll now deal and trade with those who sold us to slavers"; maybe it's my 9 CHA though, I don't know - I don't know if there's any stat checking, and skill checks are forgiving.
The place where I feel like I burned out is Inferno; just don't care for running around more sewers searching for stuff.
Anyway managed to finish mod. It's pretty solid but I liked Nevada more. Oddly enough I got nice enough ending without surprises. Well except cities which I leveled, those didn't get nice endings of course - modder seemed a bit obsessed with adding buttondestroy options for every community but my cannibal husband lived, surely.
For example, I read one thread about Sonora, and almost always anons keep saying bad things about it, they usually say this - Nevada was good, but this game sucks.
Nobody gives a fuck about nuances and subtleties I already read itt - design of quest and change in tone. They simply have no idea what it is.
As a sidenote I can say that russian imageboards are the most degenerate ones.
And coincidentally, russian and CIS imageboards are western liberal cargo-cult nests. The biggest one's /v/ is mirror of /pol/, that's why they are so degenerate. People with not enough research and thought discussing politics is a disaster.
Sounds like historical materialism applied to fictional universe. IDK, the story of Sonora desert seems coming together naturally to me. Different states, same shit happening everywhere. That's how in Fallout human relations evolve. You don't criticize Anglo history for the invention of capitalism in XVI century just because city-states in north Italy has been there in XIIth.
Different state but same shit is pretty apt description and, what I don't understand - same stories happening at different place are just not interesting.
Different state but same shit is pretty apt description and, what I don't understand - same stories happening at different place are just not interesting.
In a general sense. The general events in the evolution chain. I dont' find the stories themsevles same. Or samey. For example, main pendejotagonist's village plays bigger role in the story as opposed to sandbox rpg Fallout 2 and BoS in Sonora is not the same knights we knew in F1 (or F3 ) or hasbeens in FNV. They're in their road to zenit. With expected from wasteland scum attitude.
Meh, I'm not a fan of "everyone is asshole" approach. It actually takes away from nuance not adds to it. There is little interest in choosing between different colored shit.
I am surprised people say this one is "more of an adventure game" however. The previous one was much more of it. In fact, you don't even use sticks on rocks in Sonora often or at all; most of the time additional progression comes from Deus Ex 1 multitools. In that respect it is much more a Fallout RPG than not.
Meh, I'm not a fan of "everyone is asshole" approach. It actually takes away from nuance not adds to it. There is little interest in choosing between different colored shit.
IIRC you don't have to, there's always (an absurd and goes against historical materialism but still) a Classic Fallout™(New Vegas is a monocled classic, ok?) third way - continuing being independent and elimination of both factions from Sonora desert.
Which is I'd say accidentally easy, to the point of being part of main plot at places (ZAX).
When leader of Rangers tells you about mysterious threat from the south, a threat, so deadly and mysterious, that they can't even tell the nature of it because their Rangers can't even approach the area, I expected, something like Meduna from JA2 I guess, when moment you take a step a flare is launched in your face and then whole party dies to mortar fire.
I did not expect to just walk into a shed and talk to a NPC to get 2 extra quests. (is it possible there are supposed to be Enclave-level patrols on world map, but I never hit any of them?)
This is a feeling I got from mod in general: didn't seem like I ever had a boot shoved in my ass and thrown out after working hard for some asshole, hit a dead end in quest chain, or sent onto red herring hunt. Everything felt "easy". Same for any dangerous area: the zone with lots of shock robots gave me some issues, but do consider that my build at that point had 1 END (26 hp for most of the game? why not), 6 AGI and 40 Sneak. And underground area turned out to be... going from elevator 1 to elevator 2. That is... quite a change from likes of Alien base from Nevada.
I begged game to kill me somewhere, but aside from traditional random encounters I was denied.
Well compared to Nevada words would be consistent and polished (cause smaller); and to Resurrection that it's not retarded.
However, well balanced and polished is not what I like my postapoc for; I don't like nice and smooth, and from Russian developer I expect rough and spikey, that's how I like it.
For me it loooks just artificial. There should be people who is morally right.
For example, there is people who live somewhere, and that land is thier land, and that soil is their soil.
And someone lay claim on their land, some people who came there.
How this situation could fit "everyone is asshole" approach?
This mean that writer then avoiding such situations when one side is clearly morally right?
Then it strongly limiting story or look artificial when writer try to stretch an owl on the globe in tries to show everyone an asshole.
What I find interesting is that, in a way, trying to turn all events into moral shades of gray is like an application of Sawyer's balance, but focused on storytelling.
It's as if all the characters and all the events had to be in balanced on a moral scale or something. If a person is "legally" right in what they're doing, they need to be "morally" wrong. If a person seems to act altruistically at one time, they need to have serious character flaws to counterbalance what they did. Between black and white there are thousands of possible shades, you don't need to use the same shade of gray for eveything.
Not everyone needs to be assholes. As bad as the world could be (and is, in some books/games/etc), there are always innocent people, there are optimistic people, there are kind people... Just as there are people who are completely depraved, poisonous and, essentially, psychopaths. Yes, sometimes, perhaps many times, you will deal with situations where there is no obvious and clear answer. Other times you will be misled, used and suffer unforeseen consequences. But also, from time to time, you will (or at least should) encounter people who are on different points of the spectrum, between being a good person and a bad person.
It seems that the morality of these games is inspired by the sexuality of Bioware's characters: everyone in the universe is bi. Here, it soulds like everyone is in the "middle" of the moral scale. And that doesn't sound at all plausible.
Mod could use permanent companions doing avellone faction thing. Well, maybe just one companion - if you had a silly morte brother (or sister) tagging along, always asking "hey u r doing this/joining those, but do you remember family n shit amiga", would have been nice (and unique, since Fallout games are mostly solo) and serve better than fading photo timer.
but my cannibal husband lived, surely.
) or hasbeens in FNV. They're in their road to zenit. With expected from wasteland scum attitude.
