Fallout Fallout: Sonora - new Fallout mod from the Fallout: Nevada team

[blessed king of longing]

any news on the translation?

 

[Wunderbar]

If you tagged Small guns but didnt spend like 150 skill points in it, there is no need. You are going for Energy anyway. If you have 10 Per/Int there is no need to do anything.

i've restarted anyway, small guns aside i've made another mistake of not investing enough skillpoints into repair and science.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Oh boy, I got to finally play Sonora now! So far:

- C&C is still here. Rescue your people and you will have them go back to the Villa, which would be repopulated with time. Killing slavers in Flagpull turns the town into shit very quickly.
- fixed Reputation, which, if you remember, was completely broken in F2.
- level reactivity. You can use science on various signs and monuments, you can light up oil-lamps to reduce darkness penalty, and so on. Some people ask for food or drinks before talking, and being a good doctor is still viable.
- reworked combat. Now it's a little bit harder, ammo is scarcer and more expensive. Most animals and robots are buffed. It's way easier to receive crippling injury now. Still, little bit of stealth and smart use of environment makes 1 vs 10 fights quite doable.
- new visual stuff is awesome. Talking heads and new objects, some of them animated, various pieces of scenery. This Berezin guy done a good job while keeping to original style. That's some quality shit right here.
- writing is better: it's doesn't try to be as bombastic as F2 or Nevada. There's significantly less various references and stupid jokes. Nothing outstanding, but almost no cringe.

Kek stuff:

- as I was ready to left the Villa, I hit lvl 3. And what do I see among perk selection? One that opens up the entire map for you. Of course I picked it, looked at map, reloaded and picked quick pockets instead.
- exploring the cities I noticed how much weapons, ammo and armour is stocked in slightly locked/not locked at all containers. Missionary camp in San-Bramin is the good example of this. Obvious metagamey stuff.
- as I sided with rangers in San-Bramin, there was a big fight against missionaries. I died, again and again, for this tribal guys are complete trash and this stupid ranger keeps hitting our guys instead of enemies. I went alone, wasted all missionaries, and it was way easier than collective fight. Go figure. Game failed to react for this John McClane stuff, though.
- Aaron fight in Phoenix Cathedral. Hell no I will go with you, mate, this is RPG after all, I have my choice. Couple of Psycho, several reloads, bursting all around and here I stand knee deep in the dead. No way to know the exact location of this southern city, though.

I'm playing high PER low luck one-hander build, small guns now and energy guns later. Quite doable for now, and I sell all this rifles and ammo for them for a good price.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

- as I sided with rangers in San-Bramin, there was a big fight against missionaries. I died, again and again, for this tribal guys are complete trash and this stupid ranger keeps hitting our guys instead of enemies. I went alone, wasted all missionaries, and it was way easier than collective fight.

Keeping up with a spirit of the original, I see.

 

[Fenix]

Imagine, that I did it with unarmed.
The only cheating was preplacement plastid before the fight near boss.

Also used plastid for challange fight with robot at the factory in the Garage City with first build that used energy weapon.

 

[Wunderbar]

Tbh i kinda agree with most of criticizm expressed in this thread. Sonora is polished, balanced and "professionally-made", but at the same it's kinda bland, derivative and formulaic.

The first town you visit is Junktown clone, Flagstaff is Hub/Redding hybrid (except with slavery), Phoenix is Boneyard mixed with the Cathedral, Rangers are basically Wind of War jarheads from Nevada, Road warriors are basically Bikers from Nevada. Remember all these marvelous skill interactions from Nevada? They are gone for the most part, now you're just investing into repair and science and press the win button. Adventure elements from Nevada were streamlined and became formulaic - now every town you visit has a token wounded guy you heal with a doctor skill or a consumable (stimpak), computers can be hacked with a consumable (deus ex multitool), locks can be picked with a consumable (lockpick), broken stuff can be repaired with a consumable (metal scrap and electronic parts), etc. Sometimes you find rare items of yore which can be used in quests as an alternative path (for example, atomic wristwatches can be used to get access to Tucson tinmen, music box can be gifted to a kid in Casa Grande who in exchange will show you the location of valuable loot), but such interactions are rare. Literally every quest can be solved in a pacifistic way which is kind of ridiculous (even the conflict with a tribe of murderous cannibalistic savages can be solved peacefully).

The story is handled better than in Nevada, but it's kinda bland and can be described as "slavery is bad, but not really; being a raider is bad, but not really; in the end nothing is good or bad". As someone have already mentioned in this thread, it's like a Sawyeristic approach to storytelling - nothing stands out when everything is shade of grey. Slavers are bad because they are slavers, but at the same time they are helping in rebuilding the civilization with the stuff they mine. Cultists are bad because they are cultists, but at the same time they are helping rebuilding the civilization by spreading the knowledge and literacy. Tucson tinmen are bad because they are deranged Adeptus Mechanicus cyborgs who use slavery for their creepy experiments, but at the same time they help rebuilding civilization with their bleeding edge technology. Rangers are bad because they are robbing farmers by collecting a protection toll, but at the same time they are defending them from raiders. Even the cannibals aren't that bad and your fellow villagers aren't that good. Ffs, just point me at the bad guy and let me murder him without feeling guilty.

Now, there's still some good stuff here. I really liked Tucson tinmen (they should've been the main antagonists instead of BoS), San Brahmin "Buried city" dungeon was great, power curve is steeper than in Nevada, shortage of ammo forces you to be inventive instead of just shooting people in the eyes with your favorite gun. The main theme "technology and progress vs humanity" is interesting in concept, but could've been handled better.

Overall i'd put it somewhere between Nevada and Resurrection. Most of my complaints stem from Sonora being not as good as Nevada, so if you haven't played Nevada then you will like Sonora more.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Ffs, just point me at the bad guy and let me murder him without feeling guilty.

I don't know, mate, it's like asking for more decline. We already have too much stories with banal good/evil dichotomy. Let's look at three most common types of antagonists:

- "I'm evil just because I am! Lemme do my evil deeds! Muhaha!" Most blatant and immature one, though still the most common one.

- "Noble goals, but unsound methods". Master from F1, Kerghan from Arcanum. Is better, for indeed, the guy wants to do the right thing, but with the most outrageous methods. Yes, Kerghan, life is pain, but killing everyone is not the best solution. Drugs are better.

- "No clearly defined bad guy". The most complex one. People have their methods, their causes, and maybe you don't like it or see it as bad, but there's still reason and merit behind it, and for some people it's the best alternative. Planescape, FNV, and yes, Sonora. Mercykillers in Planescape: they're lawful good, they fight for order. Is it good? They fight evil, but they know no mercy, no compassion. Guy stole some food for his starving family: does he deserves some slack? No, he's criminal, he should die! Legion in FNV: are they bad? Well, they have order and maintain it. No crime, no drug abuse, higher moral values and stuff. They still crucify people, though. There's no good or bad, there's just different sides.

It is possible to become the main villain of the Sonora: just do best for your people. Kill Lucas and Garage City will wither. Kill slavers and Flagstaff will succumb to crime. Kill Aaron and Fireworshippers will disappear with all their knowledge. Aid ZAX and Tinmen will be done for good. You could fuck up the entire Sonora region just to provide the safety of your small backward village. But you're still hero there, innit?

 

[Ol' Willy]

The first town you visit is Junktown clone, Flagstaff is Hub/Redding hybrid (except with slavery), Phoenix is Boneyard mixed with the Cathedral, Rangers are basically Wind of War jarheads from Nevada, Road warriors are basically Bikers from Nevada.

I disagree here too. Towns are different.

Junktown is small and friendly city that lives only because of the casino and people coming for it. Gizmo is not the best guy around, but remove him and the city will die eventually.
Garage City lives because of the scavenging. But there's no stuff for scavenging left and city is dying now. Help rebellious Lucas and city will prosper with the working factory. Unlike Junktown, it's possible to find compromise between the two sides.
Flagstaff gives me no Hub or Redding vibes whatsoever. Redding is literally Wild West town thrown into Fallout universe for some reason. Hub is the town of traders. Flagstaff is build around slavers: they provide workforce for mines, they maintain order and law in the city. Remove slavers and city will turn into actual second Den. Dual meaning of slavery is already explored in Fallout universe: see Vault City for reference.
Guys from Wind of War basically sit around and do they soldier stuff, moonlighting as raiders because of boredom.
Rangers have purpose: maintaining the law around. Yes, they protect, but the price for their protection is high. They're definitely no "paragons of virtue" that do good just because it's good: their actions have downsides.
Boneyard is filled with various groups that rarely interact with each other: Gun Runners just sell their stuff, Followers of the Apocalypse are about Enlightening and stuff, Children of the Cathedral stay to the side, and the main conflict is between corrupt Regulators and bumlike Blades.
Phoenix is built around Fireworshippers, who provide education, healthcare and lawfulness, with other factions aside. Ghouls maintain the power station, thugs are there as long as they are useful to Fireworshippers, bums live there because nobody cares. Boneyard has no main power, Phoenix is built around cultists.

 

[Wunderbar]

- "No clearly defined bad guy". The most complex one. People have their methods, their causes, and maybe you don't like it or see it as bad, but there's still reason and merit behind it, and for some people it's the best alternative. Planescape, FNV, and yes, Sonora. Mercykillers in Planescape: they're lawful good, they fight for order. Is it good? They fight evil, but they know no mercy, no compassion. Guy stole some food for his starving family: does he deserves some slack? No, he's criminal, he should die! Legion in FNV: are they bad? Well, they have order and maintain it. No crime, no drug abuse, higher moral values and stuff. They still crucify people, though. There's no good or bad, there's just different sides.

It is possible to become the main villain of the Sonora: just do best for your people. Kill Lucas and Garage City will wither. Kill slavers and Flagstaff will succumb to crime. Kill Aaron and Fireworshippers will disappear with all their knowledge. Aid ZAX and Tinmen will be done for good. You could fuck up the entire Sonora region just to provide the safety of your small backward village. But you're still hero there, innit?

literally every character or faction is morally ambiguous, and all of them are ambiguous in the exact same way. They all have the same excuse, same gimmick.

...Ghouls maintain the power station...

I've seen that before somewhere, can't put my finger on it...

 

[Ol' Willy]

I've seen that before somewhere, can't put my finger on it...

Because this makes sense. If you have people who are immune to radiation, why not have them maintaining the nuclear station? It's like having people with gills and using them for diving operations - perfectly logical.

 

[Daedalos]

Gibi translation for dis pl0x

 

[Ol' Willy]

I'm in late game now (I'm really taking my time here) and I want to disagree with some of the critics considering Sonora' story and setting. Yes, it's not Planescape, but as far as your typical post-apo goes it's quite decent.

Villa. The place of your people was founded by a technophobic fella who escaped from one of the Vaults with some people and GECK. Often in the game people would comment on your place, like "How do you people manage to grow anything in those wates?" GECK! What and irony, all this happy little technophobic paradise wouldn't be possible without the finest pre-war technology.

You char is a simple hick who spent all his life cultivating maize and shoveling bramin shit. Leaving Villa you encounter the life outside your small and simple word. Akin to the beginning of Fallout 1, but when Vault Dweller was leaving clean and safe Vault, only to encounter that there is actually life in the Wastes, Peasant discovers life in ruined cities and small communities, with all the marvels of pre-war technology. Maybe dying from appendicitis or pneumonia in early thirties is not so unavoidable as it was at Villa? Maybe motorcycle is better than running around?

One of the main themes of the game is technical progress and the price of it. Yes, maybe you enjoy your simple tribal lifestyle, but it can't go on forever. Diseases, mutations, mutants, raiders, droughts - one of the characters in the game notes, how he seen entire community going crazy just because it's only water-pump was broken. There's a fine example of how too much isolation can degrade people: Jackals, cannibalistic tribe. But progress doesn't come for free: you had to abandon your old lifestyle, and someone has to work to maintain it. Someone has to mine Uranium, someone has to scavenge the ruins, and there's a plenty of risk doing that.

So, game really nudges you towards accepting the progress. You're not alone: one of your fellow villagers finds himself at home working for Tinmen. He doesn't want to go back. Or, of course, you can keep to your idealistic retrograde lifestyle: hard work, family values, strong sense of collective. But mind you, all of this is very fragile. One drought, one raid, and all is gone. You can get a protection from Rangers: just pay them with food and recruits. But this choice is as good as losing any independence whatsoever.

Later, during the Villa meeting you presented a choice. Garage City has old factory in good condition. This factory is ripe for relaunching and city could become a small industrial center, a second chance to this dying city. Your elders propose to you to destroy it and kill all hopes for local population just to keep Villa safe. Same proposition goes for Uranium mines in Flagstaff, thereby severely disrupting local power source balance. What, all ore is has to be bought from Redding now?

Well, of course, some more professional writers, like our beloved Chrissy or Timmy, would have executed this premise better, but they have no access to the franchise for it was engulfed by darkness and mediocrity. Yes, you could point out similar examples, like struggle between magic and technology in Arcanum, but, frankly, Arcanum suffers from ludonarative dissonance way more than Sonora. You keep hearing stories how magic is obsolete while magic being the most OP thing in the game.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Most of my complaints stem from Sonora being not as good as Nevada

The author has said from the very inception of this project that Sonora is a smaller, shorter game and that it will not be as ambitious as Nevada. For quite a lesser amount of effort being put in, it's as good as it could've gotten.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Good thing is that Sonora really accounts for AoD style talker-pacifist runs. Take a gander:

Spoiler

Finished the game, did almost all quests, didn't savescum too much. But while AoD makes 0 kills run possible and easy, Sonora don't:

- Rat king in Flagstaff. There's some loose wires and transformer nearby, and maybe you remember some similar set-up in Nevada's Hawthorne, but here I failed to figure out what to do. Two pieces of C4 did the job, though.
- Ranger in San-Bramin. Guys from Nevada team forgot to script non-violent way to make him go away. Look at this stats and feel the pain (one C4 nearby and one frag grenade to the face worked)
- fucking robots in Tu-San. There's no way to avoid them, even with >100% stealth. No alternative way, no way to disable them beforehand. Only throwing pulse grenades with 14% skill. This is outrageous.

Playing Sonora second time, and hell, the game is really raw. Feels like it was finished by 60-80%, polished a bit and released. Playing as grillz character I've seen a lot of gender mistakes in dialog, a lot of times when game failed to account for my faction/previous actions, and it's the small, but sure sign of rushed game. As I said, I like the idea, I like the concept, but damn, game should have been left in development for couple of months more. So, maybe by the time of English release we will get a more finished version of Sonora?

 

[deama]

Is there a good english translation of this yet?

 

[The Jester]

Good thing is that Sonora really accounts for AoD style talker-pacifist runs. Take a gander:

Spoiler

Finished the game, did almost all quests, didn't savescum too much. But while AoD makes 0 kills run possible and easy, Sonora don't:

- Rat king in Flagstaff. There's some loose wires and transformer nearby, and maybe you remember some similar set-up in Nevada's Hawthorne, but here I failed to figure out what to do. Two pieces of C4 did the job, though.
- Ranger in San-Bramin. Guys from Nevada team forgot to script non-violent way to make him go away. Look at this stats and feel the pain (one C4 nearby and one frag grenade to the face worked)
- fucking robots in Tu-San. There's no way to avoid them, even with >100% stealth. No alternative way, no way to disable them beforehand. Only throwing pulse grenades with 14% skill. This is outrageous.

Playing Sonora second time, and hell, the game is really raw. Feels like it was finished by 60-80%, polished a bit and released. Playing as grillz character I've seen a lot of gender mistakes in dialog, a lot of times when game failed to account for my faction/previous actions, and it's the small, but sure sign of rushed game. As I said, I like the idea, I like the concept, but damn, game should have been left in development for couple of months more. So, maybe by the time of English release we will get a more finished version of Sonora?

Between Resurrection and Nevada, where you put Sonora?

 

[Ol' Willy]

Between Resurrection and Nevada, where you put Sonora?

Can't say. Both Nevada and Resurrection are properly finished, Sonora really feels raw.

Also, they are very different. Resurrection is combat heavy, Nevada is about quests, puzzles and exploration, Sonora is more about C&C and reactivity.

 

[km133688]

To the person asking about where the English translation is... It is not ready yet is last I heard and it may take some time since it is all volunteer work.

Also there is some talk about doing a GOOGLE TRANSLATION version. Well I did that last night. Spent 4 fours with cut/paste on 700+ files. Got it working... but it is unplayable. Sadly the Russian to English translation provided by Google created English text that makes little sense. Every sentence is a puzzle. I tried playing for about 10 minutes, but the only screen I understood was the credits.

Bottom line is we just have to be patient for the generous people giving their time to do the human done translation. Wish I could buy coffee for these people to help them along. Too bad there is no way to do that.

 

[blessed king of longing]

To the person asking about where the English translation is... It is not ready yet is last I heard and it may take some time since it is all volunteer work.

Also there is some talk about doing a GOOGLE TRANSLATION version. Well I did that last night. Spent 4 fours with cut/paste on 700+ files. Got it working... but it is unplayable. Sadly the Russian to English translation provided by Google created English text that makes little sense. Every sentence is a puzzle. I tried playing for about 10 minutes, but the only screen I understood was the credits.

Bottom line is we just have to be patient for the generous people giving their time to do the human done translation. Wish I could buy coffee for these people to help them along. Too bad there is no way to do that.

When I played Nevada I played the google translated version. Is this much worse than that? I thought it was pretty charming in that it allowed you to grasp the context, some details and make up the rest yourself

 

[km133688]

Judge for yourself. Here is one of the lively translation files; and I consider this one to be more reasonable than most I spot checked.

{100} {} {Before you visit.}
{101} {} {There is a viewer in full support. Okay, he's gone in a lot of miles.}
{102} {} {?? òû. I knew that the computers were on the computer, but that wasn’t a mistake ...}
{103} {} {Wouldn't this be the case in this city?}
{104} {} {...}

#First day
{200} {} {Ýé, is that òû? This is because of the non-order. Don't think about it here.}
{201} {} {À òû ...}
{202} {} {Mind, are you at my writing in the Jenix? I was then very enthusiastic and dumb, that this is how it is. As shown, hr.}
{1202} {} {Mind, are you in the writing in the Jenix? I was then very enthusiastic and dumb, that this is how it is. As shown, hr.}
{203} {} {Okay, but surely you want to use this new plant?}
{204} {} {}
{205} {} {}
{206} {} {In the center of the city, there is a download of the house. I am the home of this department.}
{207} {} {Fake? Here, in the middle of the run?}
{208} {} {Whoa. In the city of a lot of water, while the water is taken, the caravans are taken from the whole area. The truth is, the water is not supplied by all the Melarim.}
{209} {} {Why are you a new owner?}
{210} {} {My partner. I received from some writing with the option to come and work in the house. Here we go. And nowhere.}
{211} {} {Why just jumped in and crossed over to another city?}
{212} {} {No way? The guide to the steel shop is good enough after a fine-tuning call.}
{213} {} {Âçðûâ? What about the history with the explosion?}
{214} {} {Don't you know? Yes, for this time, the whole day is running out of steam. The edge of the injector's target is on the air. Ïóô-ô! In a straight line.}
{215} {} {? òû. Is there any other source of hardware?}
{216} {} {No other unknown. FALSE CLOSE, but the HOUSE is far from the video. I talked to the fire, but he called the change the main agent and sent it to the source.}
{217} {} {What are you doing?}
{218} {} {I don’t know. Lots of fun here is a little bit, it’s just a little bit, it’s just like me. If you know what is good, are you good to me? Do not stop for a long time.}
{219} {} {Good luck with the search.}
{220} {} {Àãà. Vàé.}
{221} {} {Okay.}
{222} {} {Confirmation is a mistake.}
{223} {} {I am not dummy.}
{224} {} {Íó-íó. Please, add it to listening.}
{225} {} {Õì. Would you just be on the spot by your subsidiary, so you can take your place?}
{226} {} {Lost. Ìû It is certainly not visible. By all means, he sent the letters through the chickens, so it's easy to check. At the same time, the names are given in the first place.}

# Repetitive dial of the side
{250} {} {Ah, that's it. I’m like you dumal. A spirit in the same city. Have a lot of time together, huh?}
{251} {} {Sounds all nadumano. Okay.}
{252} {} {Finished. See more views.}
{253} {} {Come on, wanna call?}
{254} {} {New change is simple.}
{255} {} {Good, Tyv. How do I calculate it, so that I need to tell me what you are doing here?}
{256} {} {See more, Tiv.}
{257} {} {Color in the first place, who are you?}

#stage 1
{260} {} {Did you go to the local breech? Okay, you are here.}
{261} {} {What? How is he dead? Now it’s on the spot, because I don’t have to push the menu. How is this occasion?}
{262} {} {Good by the Brothers Mogils, here have lost many people. What do you know?}
{263} {} {Õì. As soon as it is known, the clan wars are still here. But this is not a local one when you ask them about the problem. If my pal is the wrong one, it will be just smacked.}
{264} {} {What do you want?}
{265} {} {Whoa, no. The faulty controller is used as a power source. A ÿ is his partner. Would you like to investigate?}
{266} {} {Yes, do you speak? After all of these threats, do you stay?}
{267} {} {In sight, or ... there is a lot of language, in the Jenix, the same thing is not in a good way. I’ve got all the readings, just try to start working on the printer. Here, you can create a lot of money and get started. Would you like to let go of yours?}
{268} {} {Ah, that's fine. The death of your support has shown all of the article, right or wrong?}
{269} {} {So what about? I can build a life of my own and get started. Loosely start with this.}
{270} {} {Key id. It is worth trying. What are your friends?}
{271} {} {Let's go with all the readings to go to this list.}
{272} {} {Whoo, most importantly - add the location of the world. I don’t want to go to my contact, but it’s saved to me. Would you like to talk with him?}
{273} {} {Would you like me to come this afternoon?}
{274} {} {Ah, of course, we want to get started. If you are ready, you will need to pay when you start. Ìû No part. Good for just a little feed.}
{275} {} {I'll try him out.}
{276} {} {Thank you, partner. What would you do without doing?}
{277} {} {View image.}
{278} {} {The menu will only run one hand to speak with this type. Go to one another.}
{279} {} {Get it. Sure, let's take it all out. In case of emergency, please.}
{280} {} {Okay, failed.}
{281} {} {I’ve come here, I have some first clients.}

#stage 2
{300} {} {What did my say? Would you like to talk with him?}
{301} {} {No, I haven't been around yet. Get some sleep.}
{302} {} {This is the city of death. First, you don't have to start with your own base.}
{303} {} {Nope? No, why not with this city? However, I don’t want more details. But the truth is, I have to take a bath, so long as someone

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Is there a good english translation of this yet?

You can follow the translation here.

 

[Wunderbar]

Oh, it's you.

who was he

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

How to solve this guy's quest about vandalism? Who is the little christian fuck who paints crosses?

 

[Ol' Willy]

How to solve this guy's quest about vandalism? Who is the little christian fuck who paints crosses?

Spoiler

Wait outside during the night, it's the bald guy whose son is wanted by the priest.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

What's this intimidate perk? I took it, and I have 9 charisma. It does fuck all. A perk well spent...