Fallout Tactics (in 2020)

[Bigg Boss]

Play this instead.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What does it do?

 

[Jigby]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

There was a guy that was reversing Tactics and on the side also fixed some bugs, but I haven't tried it yet.

https://github.com/melindil/FTSE
https://melindil.github.io/FTSE/manual/03-patches.md.html

 

[Fargus]

What does it do?

https://www.moddb.com/mods/xkcons-ultimate-rip-off-mod

The Mod is an open world RPGish redo of the original campaign. That is to say, that it is the original campaign set in a much larger world for the player to explore. In fact, if the player chooses you can ignore the main campaign altogether and go off and explore the new content. However of course, it is advised that you do not go AWOL and DO complete the brotherhood missions so as to advance some plot-lines and to get better equipment and ammos.

-Join different factions such as 'The Zianist' or 'The Alkidas'
-Enjoy a career as a professional fighter
-Explore new and large towns and all within them.
-Get married and buy a home.
-More than 30 new maps to explore.

There is lot's to do and explore. I'm sure there is something for everybody in the Mod.

lul


Been years since i played Tactics.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/fallout-tactics-redux

Is this mod any good?

 

[Acrux]

https://www.moddb.com/mods/fallout-tactics-redux

Is this mod any good?

Yes, I like the Equilibrium mod on top of it.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux

 

[Bigg Boss]

Look it is the best mod for Tactics period I don't give a shit who you are. It is not without bugs but if you wanted Tactics to be more Fallout (with minor lore breaking shit) then try it out. Imagine the same game with extra locations and a real open world. Make sure you do quests in the area you are in before leaving if possible though lest you break the crazy scripting that made it work.

 

[The Dopamine Cleric]

gog-ing tactics is something ive put off so i guess ill do so

 

[Bigg Boss]

Someone gave the Fallout games away the other day but I forget because I just can't care anymore.

 

[laclongquan]

Fallout Tactics is not the same as Fallout 1/2. For onething it doesnt have same amount of quest~ 1/3 I should think~

Dont do false advertise, man~ FTBOS suffer from false advertisement since its very beginning.

 

[Cael]

Talking about those balance mods... do they fix the 2mm EC ammo?
I recently discovered the reason why the Gauss Rifle is so ASS against the robots.
Its not (just) because its a normal damage weapon and the robots bounce that shit, its because it has shit ammo modifiers, unlike the Fallout 2 version which had, if I remember right, -15 DR modifier and 3/2 damage mod.
So the FOT Gauss Weapons have zero penetration or damage ability except for sheer weapon damage. They probably do well against human enemies, but anything armored? Nope.

Gauss Minigun is the one exception, probably because of how much 2mm EC it throws.

Not really.

FOT Gauss Rifle is 60-80 damage.
FO2 Gauss Rifle is 32-43 with a +20% to-hit.

FOT 2mm ammo is +15% penetration.
FO2 2mm ammo is +20% penetration, -30% target AC, +50% damage.

The thing is, DR is far more important in FOT than FO2. You can basically ignore DR in FO2 due to how crits work. There is no such thing in FOT.

Also, in my experience, you apply DR before DT in FOT whereas it is the other way around in FO2. That makes it more important to get rid of DR in FOT as any DR will multiply the DT of the armour. In other words, the 15% penetrate of the FOT ammo means much more than the 20% penetrate of the FO2 ammo.

Let us take armour with DT 15 and DR 50%.

FOT Gauss Rifle at minimum damage (60) will do 60*(1-(0.5-0.15)) = 60*(1-0.35) = 60*0.65 = 39 damage before DT. Or 24 damage after.
FO2 Gauss Rifle at minimum damage (32) will do (32*1.5)-15 = 48-15 = 33 before DR. Or 33*(1-(0.5-0.2)) = 33*(1-0.3) = 33*0.7 = 23 damage after.

FOT Gauss Rifle at maximum damage (80) will do 80*(1-(0.5-0.15)) = 80*(1-0.35) = 80*0.65 = 52 damage before DT. Or 37 damage after.
FO2 Gauss Rifle at maximum damage (43) will do (43*1.5)-15 = 64-15 = 49 before DR. Or 49*(1-(0.5-0.2)) = 49*(1-0.3) = 49*0.7 = 34 damage after.

Crits is where the FO2 Gauss Rifle will shine, but that is not because of the Gauss Rifle or its ammo. It is because in FO2, crits remove all DR. You only have DT to deal with, and that will be blown past easily regardless of which weapon you use. Also, the crit multiplier table is less damaging in FOT than FO2 (no instant kills, IIRC), and on top of that, the Sniper perk doesn't work in FOT.

That is why it seems that FOT weapons are worse than FO2 weapons.

Spoiler

Using a 4x damage crit as illustration:
FOT Gauss Rifle at max damage (80) will do 80*(1-(0.5-0.15))*4 = 320*(1-0.35) = 320*0.65 = 208 damage before DT. Or 193 damage after.
FO2 Gauss Rifle at maximum damage (43) will do (43*1.5*4)-15 = 258-15 = 243 before DR. But DR is ignored in FO2 crits, so you do a straight 243 damage.

And let us not forget that HP in FOT goes into the hundreds whereas you'd be lucky to hit 100 in FO2.

 

[blessed king of longing]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

Throwing weapons are also kind of meh. FoT is the only tactics game that I can remember where grenades do not travel in an arc but in a straight line, which means no hitting enemies behind walls and cover. Which completely misses the point of grenades.

You can absolutely throw grenades behind cover and over walls. It's how people stealth checked the regular camping spots online. As long as you can see the target ground you want to hit, you can toss a grenade onto it, even if there's a roof above it. Just equip the grenade and right click. You can even pixel hunt for the spots that are hard to get and kill something like a super mutant without it ever being able to attack you

 

[laclongquan]

Talking about those balance mods... do they fix the 2mm EC ammo?
I recently discovered the reason why the Gauss Rifle is so ASS against the robots.
Its not (just) because its a normal damage weapon and the robots bounce that shit, its because it has shit ammo modifiers, unlike the Fallout 2 version which had, if I remember right, -15 DR modifier and 3/2 damage mod.
So the FOT Gauss Weapons have zero penetration or damage ability except for sheer weapon damage. They probably do well against human enemies, but anything armored? Nope.

Gauss Minigun is the one exception, probably because of how much 2mm EC it throws.

Probabbly your very mod build you are running change that number. total conversion has that tendency~

I remember in vanilla the efficiency of 2mm EC is good so that the only thing preventing us abused it like crazy is the very limited amount of ammo we can have. Full load for the rifles, the rest for the pistol, and not any for the gauss minigun because the damn thing eat 2mm like sugar cotton. I think we only have enough to run 1.5 battle map, aka the last and second to last map. If one shoot it in full then the other will only have enough to run a half.

Fixmod and Total conversion mods monkeyed around bullet data so vanilla experience may not apply any more, though.

 

[Grunker]

here’s the hot take controversial deep core truth about fallout tactics

are you ready

it’s ok

just ok

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

Throwing weapons are also kind of meh. FoT is the only tactics game that I can remember where grenades do not travel in an arc but in a straight line, which means no hitting enemies behind walls and cover. Which completely misses the point of grenades.

You can absolutely throw grenades behind cover and over walls. It's how people stealth checked the regular camping spots online. As long as you can see the target ground you want to hit, you can toss a grenade onto it, even if there's a roof above it. Just equip the grenade and right click. You can even pixel hunt for the spots that are hard to get and kill something like a super mutant without it ever being able to attack you

Really? Strange, I tried doing that and I just hit the walls. Trying to hit enemies in cover doesn't really seem to hurt them either, even when I do have los.

 

[Cael]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

Throwing weapons are also kind of meh. FoT is the only tactics game that I can remember where grenades do not travel in an arc but in a straight line, which means no hitting enemies behind walls and cover. Which completely misses the point of grenades.

You can absolutely throw grenades behind cover and over walls. It's how people stealth checked the regular camping spots online. As long as you can see the target ground you want to hit, you can toss a grenade onto it, even if there's a roof above it. Just equip the grenade and right click. You can even pixel hunt for the spots that are hard to get and kill something like a super mutant without it ever being able to attack you

Really? Strange, I tried doing that and I just hit the walls. Trying to hit enemies in cover doesn't really seem to hurt them either, even when I do have los.

Explosions are quite hit and miss. I have had a melee bad guy getting gibbed standing next to me while my guy was not even hurt when a ghoul threw an incendiary grenade at us.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, rockets in particular seem kind of odd.
I've had a mutant gib himself because the idiot shot the floor in front of him. It was a like a 80% chance to hit.
Another useless weapon in vanilla I guess. Explosives don't even seem to hurt robots all that much for some reason.

 

[luj1]

Tactics is great

- best graphics in the Fallout franchise, like Fallout 2 but sharper, while maintaining the same aesthetic (what Fallout 3 should have looked like)
- great atmosphere, urban tilesets and detailed hand crafted maps. Different feeling from Fallout but very bleak and haunting
- great tactical gameplay, turn based, isometric, party based (pure CRPG format). I rank it right next to ToEE and Dark Sun and KotC in this regard
- Its a pretty long game with serviceable story
- despite being instanced there is a lot of content, tons of weapons, enemies, feats, party members to choose from
- music is of course great, great photographic-style portraits too
- Good UI (better than Fallout 1-2)
- relatively quick progression which I like

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

 

[Cael]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

Wasteland's take on energy weapons is pretty bad, though. It is pretty much the worst possible ranged weapon type you can have. There is no point to it. I never bother with energy weapons in WL2. Snipers and Assaults all the way.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

Wasteland's take on energy weapons is pretty bad, though. It is pretty much the worst possible ranged weapon type you can have. There is no point to it. I never bother with energy weapons in WL2. Snipers and Assaults all the way.

True, it's not great, but you can at least tell they have have a purpose. It's just not well executed.
Energy weapon specialists shine when they are against targets that EW are designed to counter. It's just that such enemy types aren't as common as they should be and enemies can have stupid armour levels without counting as conductive for some silly reason. EW were actually better in non-DC, iirc, because they just countered heavy armour.
Compare this to tactics where they intentionally made most weapon types redundant as the game progresses, including 9mm AP. Which they give you a lot of when the robots show up.

 

[laclongquan]

In the late stage of vanilla Fallout Tactics, the sole usage of explosives, 556 caliber, and 9mm weapons is to kill random encounter hostiles to harvest 7.62 ammo and or Browning bullet.

I remember driving around in vehicles, drive in close fast and unload those automatic guns. From far away, grenades and rocket launchers are the key.

The TC mods and fixmods are, in one way or another, mess with merchant list and make those bullets more common so the need to do it is no longer in place.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

In the late stage of vanilla Fallout Tactics, the sole usage of explosives, 556 caliber, and 9mm weapons is to kill random encounter hostiles to harvest 7.62 ammo and or Browning bullet.

I remember driving around in vehicles, drive in close fast and unload those automatic guns. From far away, grenades and rocket launchers are the key.

The TC mods and fixmods are, in one way or another, mess with merchant list and make those bullets more common so the need to do it is no longer in place.

Why would you need to harvest 7.62? You get plenty from missions. I have like 20k right now lol.
Browings are indeed pretty rare though.

 

[laclongquan]

That's entirely due to the new fixmods and or TC mods. If you use vanilla and basic patches, you will find that 7.62 ammo, while plentiful enough, is nowhere near enough to waste. Thus the usage of 556 and 9mm on RE to trade for looted 7.62 is quite acceptable indeed. Like, you had maybe 2k?

But nowaday people just cant resist messing with the available of certain things. Thus 7.62 become common enough you can wasteful spend it without worry. Like, 10k inventory and 10k more in stores.

The balance is kinda like you get out of The Den with a pocketful of shotgun ammo, but if random number fuck you up with more than usual share of RE around raider's pass area so you are gonna running out of bullets. After patches, it's like you are out of Vault City and GECKO with your inventory full of shotgun ammo with more in stores as long as you have money to pay for them.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I am running vanilla though. I think I'm just using High Resolution? I still have more 7.62 than I know what to do with, especially since the only 7.62 that's worth using against robots is the SAW.

 

[Cael]

I am running vanilla though. I think I'm just using High Resolution? I still have more 7.62 than I know what to do with, especially since the only 7.62 that's worth using against robots is the SAW.

He uses burst mode exclusively and love to duel enemies from maximum range, which would explain why he keeps running out. He once told me to dance around at max range, make the enemy run out of ammo, and then kill them as they run in. When you use that kind of strategy, you aren't getting much ammo from enemies.

I have 10s of thousands of 7.62 because I use only aimed shots from ambush. I kill the enemy before they even realise I am there and collect most/all of their ammo. You must be like me in that regard.

No, it has nothing to do with mods. It has everything to do with how he plays.