Fallout Tactics (in 2020)

[Bigg Boss]

Tactics getting so much flak while FNV gets a pass is bullshit.

 

[Snufkin]

I was teenage when FT came out. I got my copy by the mail and played it originaly on Pentium 500 and Voodoo 3 I didnt like the 1 second delay you cant get rid off, i lost interest quickly in like 3 mission but stumbled into Polish FT scene where everyone was playing multiplayer. I even won a 1v1 tournament not long ago when i was still newb which surprised me.
The scene died eventually in 2013 i think. Lot of fun memories like dogs with plastic explosives blowing away entire squads, or rush teams with supermutant and plasma pistols to out AP the oponent.

 

[thesheeep]

Tactics getting so much flak while FNV gets a pass is bullshit.

You kinda have to take into account what they get a pass / flak for.

World building and story in FNV is great, in Tactics it barely exists.
Combat is obviously superior in Tactics - but Tactics didn't have the F3 legacy preventing it from having good combat in the first place. That doesn't make the combat better, but I find it hard to blame FNV for it.

So depending on what people prefer (and most people prefer story, I guess?) one or the other will always be "better".

 

[octavius]

My reaction to Fallout Tactics when I tried it a year or two ago:

I find it a huge decline after Jagged Alliance 2 and OpenXcom.
I just don't feel in control.
The game some times suddenly changes to real time at akward times.
It's very hard to judge movement. Unless I hold the Shift key the game won't allow me to use the last four APs for movement, for example.
LOS is much harder to judge than in JA2 or OX. I can't even tell wether there are windows or other openings in buildings until getting close, and then you suddenly see the whole interior, except for enemies hiding in corners.
And in addition the game crashes frequently.
So more frustration than fun.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It helps to only play in real time. Turn Based feels really jank.
I sort of like it, but the combat encounters are kind of shit. A lot of the time the AI throws enemies with shot guns and automatic weapons in kill boxes that instantly kills your soldiers unless you snipe them from a distance, which feels kind of lame. You'd think you would have smoke or flash grenades (you know, like a normal tactics game) but you really don't.

The weapon progression system isn't great either. For a BoS recruit you are poorly equipped; you have to scavenge to get better equipment, and making it so that you need certain weapons in later stages of the game isn't fun.
Super mutants were a slog to fight because if you used anything other than a heavy weapon, a sniper rifle or a burst shotgun you will get instant kills. Which isn't great game design. Act IV is a little better because you fight mostly human enemies, but you'll still run into entrenched hoards of enemies with heavy weapons.

Speccing a main character for energy weapons and finding out that you have to wait for end game to actually get energy weapons isn't great either.

All that said, I don't think it's a bad game. I actually would like to see a remake, another fallout tactics game or a spiritual successor (like a real time wasteland 2 I guess?).

 

[CHEMS]

I loved Fallout Tactics, don't care what they say

The only thing that bothered me in the game was the non stocking merchants

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the merchant system is kind of buggy.
Not only do they not restock, you can cheese them by gambling without actually offering anything. If you mash the button you'll eventually get what you're going for. I think it only works on quartermasters though. I tried doing it to get the robot parts for that one mission and it didn't work.

Items are also stupidly expensive, but then again you get so much loot because of the sheer number of enemies on the field (seriously, it's actually impossible to loot everyone late game) that I guess it balances out.

 

[CHEMS]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

 

[jakkis]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

 

[blessed king of longing]

Yeah, the merchant system is kind of buggy.
Not only do they not restock, you can cheese them by gambling without actually offering anything. If you mash the button you'll eventually get what you're going for. I think it only works on quartermasters though. I tried doing it to get the robot parts for that one mission and it didn't work.

Items are also stupidly expensive, but then again you get so much loot because of the sheer number of enemies on the field (seriously, it's actually impossible to loot everyone late game) that I guess it balances out.

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

you can make a barter/gamble character you only use at bunkers and you can buy/gamble everything the quartermasters, medics and traders have. steal works too. i stole everything from every bunker (every soldier and other npc), looted everything from every mission and brought it back. the game has more than enough loot, you just didn't look hard enough. iirc the only thing you can't really use in Fallout Tactics is gauss ammo since it's incredibly rare and not buyable in any meaningful quantity

 

[Jason Liang]

Game is free to download (along with FO 1 and 2) on Epic Games for the next 10 hours!

 

[Acrux]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

 

[Cael]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

They fix it by restricting the burst to one target, or something like that.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

They fix it by restricting the burst to one target, or something like that.

That's kind of unfortunate.
Isn't there another fix that proper fixes it? I think I'm using it in my game. Missed burst shots don't seem to instantly gib my units at least, and there's still AoE.

Are SMGs, 5.56 weapons and pistols just useless? I found that they are outclassed by pretty much every other weapon type in the game.
Similarly, melee and unarmed seems to be a waste of points because enemies are so lethal that if you get close you die. Deathclaws seem pretty weak too.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

Throwing weapons are also kind of meh. FoT is the only tactics game that I can remember where grenades do not travel in an arc but in a straight line, which means no hitting enemies behind walls and cover. Which completely misses the point of grenades.

 

[Cael]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

They fix it by restricting the burst to one target, or something like that.

That's kind of unfortunate.
Isn't there another fix that proper fixes it? I think I'm using it in my game. Missed burst shots don't seem to instantly gib my units at least, and there's still AoE.

Are SMGs, 5.56 weapons and pistols just useless? I found that they are outclassed by pretty much every other weapon type in the game.
Similarly, melee and unarmed seems to be a waste of points because enemies are so lethal that if you get close you die. Deathclaws seem pretty weak too.

The burst fire bug isn't insta-gib. It is hitting everything else in the cone automatically if it misses the original target. So long as the original target is hit, it resolves properly, IIRC. And don't forget armour will work against stuff even in burst mode, so the miniguns are pretty much shit against you regardless of burst mode bug or not.

Yes, most weapons are pretty much shit. The only ones you should be looking at is hunting rifle, AK-47, FN FAL, sniper rifle, SAW, M2, shotguns (any, they are all pretty good for when you get them), rifle-type energy weapons, gauss rifle. MP5, Walther and Desert Eagle isn't bad, but you generally have better weapons by then (i.e., AK-47).

There is one special mention, though. The P226 goes down to 1AP per shot if you have both Fast Shot trait and the -1AP with guns perk. Too bad it has damage of ass.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

They fix it by restricting the burst to one target, or something like that.

That's kind of unfortunate.
Isn't there another fix that proper fixes it? I think I'm using it in my game. Missed burst shots don't seem to instantly gib my units at least, and there's still AoE.

Are SMGs, 5.56 weapons and pistols just useless? I found that they are outclassed by pretty much every other weapon type in the game.
Similarly, melee and unarmed seems to be a waste of points because enemies are so lethal that if you get close you die. Deathclaws seem pretty weak too.

The burst fire bug isn't insta-gib. It is hitting everything else in the cone automatically if it misses the original target. So long as the original target is hit, it resolves properly, IIRC. And don't forget armour will work against stuff even in burst mode, so the miniguns are pretty much shit against you regardless of burst mode bug or not.

Yes, most weapons are pretty much shit. The only ones you should be looking at is hunting rifle, AK-47, FN FAL, sniper rifle, SAW, M2, shotguns (any, they are all pretty good for when you get them), rifle-type energy weapons, gauss rifle. MP5, Walther and Desert Eagle isn't bad, but you generally have better weapons by then (i.e., AK-47).

There is one special mention, though. The P226 goes down to 1AP per shot if you have both Fast Shot trait and the -1AP with guns perk. Too bad it has damage of ass.

Ah, I guess I might not have fixed it then. I've returned to it after a year so I don't remember if I modded it or not. I just remember my units dying for no reason against super mutants.
Per the weapons, that seems to be the case. It's a pity really; FoT gives you such a nice variety of weapons, and they're mostly shit.
Does that Redux mod and whatever the other one is (equilibrium, I think?) fix weapon balance?

 

[Cael]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

The Ruger is a 5.56mm weapon that has a respectable damage, bit it has range of poop because it is a SMG in game, regardless of how rifle-y it looks.

What you can do is mod the game to make some weapons better. So those with rare, exotic ammo (e.g., 30.06) is actually objectively better than those that use 7.62mm. You can also mod ammo to make 5.56 armour piercing if you want to. That kind of modding is surprisingly easy in FOT.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

The Ruger is a 5.56mm weapon that has a respectable damage, bit it has range of poop because it is a SMG in game, regardless of how rifle-y it looks.

What you can do is mod the game to make some weapons better. So those with rare, exotic ammo (e.g., 30.06) is actually objectively better than those that use 7.62mm. You can also mod ammo to make 5.56 armour piercing if you want to. That kind of modding is surprisingly easy in FOT.

How do you mod it? With a Hex editor?

 

[Cael]

I hated the burst bug, anyone ever fix that? If not, how do you guys play around it? Spread out your guys a lot?

Yes, either Redux or Equilibrium (requires Redux) fixes it.

They fix it by restricting the burst to one target, or something like that.

That's kind of unfortunate.
Isn't there another fix that proper fixes it? I think I'm using it in my game. Missed burst shots don't seem to instantly gib my units at least, and there's still AoE.

Are SMGs, 5.56 weapons and pistols just useless? I found that they are outclassed by pretty much every other weapon type in the game.
Similarly, melee and unarmed seems to be a waste of points because enemies are so lethal that if you get close you die. Deathclaws seem pretty weak too.

The burst fire bug isn't insta-gib. It is hitting everything else in the cone automatically if it misses the original target. So long as the original target is hit, it resolves properly, IIRC. And don't forget armour will work against stuff even in burst mode, so the miniguns are pretty much shit against you regardless of burst mode bug or not.

Yes, most weapons are pretty much shit. The only ones you should be looking at is hunting rifle, AK-47, FN FAL, sniper rifle, SAW, M2, shotguns (any, they are all pretty good for when you get them), rifle-type energy weapons, gauss rifle. MP5, Walther and Desert Eagle isn't bad, but you generally have better weapons by then (i.e., AK-47).

There is one special mention, though. The P226 goes down to 1AP per shot if you have both Fast Shot trait and the -1AP with guns perk. Too bad it has damage of ass.

Ah, I guess I might not have fixed it then. I've returned to it after a year so I don't remember if I modded it or not. I just remember my units dying for no reason against super mutants.
Per the weapons, that seems to be the case. It's a pity really; FoT gives you such a nice variety of weapons, and they're mostly shit.
Does that Redux mod and whatever the other one is (equilibrium, I think?) fix weapon balance?

Those mods allegedly "fixes" weapon balance, but it is "fixed" according to the modder, and... well, I don't share his "logic". Plus one of them adds the .50 cal sniper rifle, which is bloody insane with DU ammo.

 

[Cael]

I don't mind the items being expensive, but with no plentyful ammo to grind encounters so i can loot and sell stuff it doesn't work

Game had a shitton of ammo you could loot, but way more of some guns while other types of ammo were really really rare. That forces you to build around what you can loot only, with no freedon to actually invest in a fun build you'd like to play

Ammo is quite plentiful, as long as it's 7.62. I have like 8k of them in my current run, lol.
5.56 is also pretty common, but the weapons that use it seem to pretty weak compared to 7.62 rifles.
You'd think that 5.56 would have innate armor pen which is offset by relative low base damage, but no, 7.62 and 5.56 work the same, it's just that 7.62 weapons deal more damage and have longer range.

The Ruger is a 5.56mm weapon that has a respectable damage, bit it has range of poop because it is a SMG in game, regardless of how rifle-y it looks.

What you can do is mod the game to make some weapons better. So those with rare, exotic ammo (e.g., 30.06) is actually objectively better than those that use 7.62mm. You can also mod ammo to make 5.56 armour piercing if you want to. That kind of modding is surprisingly easy in FOT.

How do you mod it? With a Hex editor?

FoT comes with a game editor. Just fire it up and away you go.

Understand it first before modding anything, though. Just explore it and mess around. Don't save anything. Better still, make a back up of the game before you mess around. The editor isn't documented at all, so you will need to figure things out yourself.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, I had a look at ModDb and the modding for FoT is surprisingly vibrant. There's a mod for an Enclave campaign which I'm tempted to try at some point.

 

[Cael]

Yeah, I had a look at ModDb and the modding for FoT is surprisingly vibrant. There's a mod for an Enclave campaign which I'm tempted to try at some point.

If I ever figure out how to upload my game files, you can have a go at my modded game. I messed with the weapon damage and range, added a few random encounters taken from the Redux mod, and edited most of the maps to make it more challenging, including enemies running at you from across the map when you enter combat with their buddies. Also added a few surprises here and there on certain story maps.

 

[CHEMS]

Yeah, I had a look at ModDb and the modding for FoT is surprisingly vibrant. There's a mod for an Enclave campaign which I'm tempted to try at some point.

There's an interesting mod called "The Sum" made by some canadian guy. Fun thing about this is the mod was state funded by the government of Canada. It's a mumble jumble of anarchist stuff (the progressive side of it), but despite the political autism of the mod, it's very interesting and unique, though very buggy

The mod shifts from the traditional squad tactical game to a survival one. There's a video on youtube about it. Sound track is amazing too, but i don't think it's everybody's cup of tea

 

[Cael]

Modder: Blah, blah, blah, progressi-
Me: Fuck off!