Game News Feargie talks about WotC morality guidelines in NWN2

[Briosafreak]

In Germany one the big best sellers of the last years was the Lula series, a softcore porn adventure game. And violent games are allowed, as long as the blood changes color :D


In America since the last administration took over there has been a backlash against these "deeds of satan" things like D&D, wich leads to hillarious discussionslike this one or to the"horrific" experiences of one Molitor (no, not Jimmy :D ) , or even this piece ofD&d is evil propaganda (used in this page in a more ironic way than what people might realise at first).

So one canEXPOSE SATAN on D&D ; one can see more resources on this discussionhere (the bottom has the good parts) , but at the end this is a question of intolerant ideology based on religion fueling corporate politics stupidity in the States. This piece is partiuilarly enlighting on the history of the fight of Christian fundamentalists against D&D


The end result for D20:

Quality Standards

In determining whether a product complies with community standards of decency, Wizards of the Coast uses, but is not limited to the following. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Wizards of the Coast reserves the right to determine, in its sole discretion, whether a product complies with community standards of decency.

Violence and Gore – Descriptions of combat are acceptable in a Covered Product. However art or text depicting excessively graphic violence or gore is not acceptable.

Sexual Themes - Sexual situations—including abuse and pornography—may not appear graphically in art or text. When depicting the human form—or creatures possessing humaniform features—gratuitous nudity, the depiction of genitalia, bare female nipples, and sexual or bathroom activity is not acceptable. While sensuality and sexuality may appear in a Covered Product, it must not be the focus nor can it be salacious in nature.

Prejudice - Covered Products can not depict existing real-world minorities, nationalities, social castes, religious groups, genders, lifestyle preferences, or people with disabilities as a group inferior to any other group. Current, real-world religions and religious groups and/or practices will not be portrayed in any way that promotes disrespect for these religions or their participants. A Covered Product can not endorse or promote any specific religion or religious practice.

This is limitating censorship, and a sign of american times that they are winning the war since 2000, with Hasbro making WoTC toning down their material since then (the change of the look of the Magic cards from a magical look to a Yo-Gi-Ho look is still the funniest move of them all). But more important to this discussion is the way some corporations use them for their own interests (with disastrous results, D&D Heroes BOMBED HARD) and that beeing possible to make a good game even with the constraints, it still empoverishes the end results, stupifies gamers and creates a childish atmosphere in games that i`m pretty much fed up. If i want games for kids or young teens i play my Gamecube thanks.

 

[Volourn]

"As for Volourn's bullshit, I never said (I know this won't make any difference) that there would never be any form of evil endings in a D&D CRPG but that those that were "allowed" would be neutered or caveated."

How was TOEE'e evil endings "neutered or caveated"?

 

[Monte Carlo]

I've already explained my take on it, if you could be bothered to read it, cretin.

 

[suibhne]

Gromnir, assuming for the moment that you're not being deliberately obtuse, how do European restrictions play into management demands that the brothel be eliminated? And how in hell is it Troika's fault, as you suggest, that they included characters and areas which Atari allowed until a few months before release?

I think my first assumption was overly generous, but go ahead, prove me wrong. :D

 

[Volourn]

"I've already explained my take on it, if you could be bothered to read it, cretin."

R00fles! Your 'take' on it ammounted to crying, and whining, and exuses. Bottom line is TOEE had(has) evil endings. And, they're not anymore "immature" than any other CRPG's 'evil" or 'good" endings either.

You tried, and you lost. Move on.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

In America since the last administration took over there has been a backlash against these "deeds of satan" things like D&D, wich leads to hillarious discussionslike this one or to the"horrific" experiences of one Molitor (no, not Jimmy :D ) , or even this piece ofD&d is evil propaganda (used in this page in a more ironic way than what people might realise at first).

Blah blah blah blah.. It has a hell of a lot more to do with political correctness than it does with any fundamentalist religious views. Most of those guidelines are from the point of view that NO ONE MUST BE OFFENDED EVER.

 

[Spazmo]

No, Saint, I disagree. It's rather because ALL REPUBLICANS ARE A FORCE OF PURE, UNMITIGATED EVIL.

 

[taks]

Gromnir, assuming for the moment that you're not being deliberately obtuse, how do European restrictions play into management demands that the brothel be eliminated?

he stated quite clearly this was NOT the case with the brothel... please re-read.

my guess on the child thing is that they really didn't even look at what troika had till near the end. piss poor QA in other words. that's why they never caught it till late...

taks

 

[Seven]

I've already explained my take on it, if you could be bothered to read it, cretin.

I do believe that this is a first for the Codex; it's the first time some one's been called a cretin.

 

[Greenskin13]

Don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.

I'm going to use "gutter crawling cur" next time.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I always found it odd that most people would scream things like 'sycophantic cur!' and 'degenerate!' at you in games and fantasy novels, even as they were being brutally killed. I'm quite certain that none of these terms ever held much profane value even during the time of their popular usage.

Calling someone a 'fuckface' would be so much more appropriate when getting your chest ripped open.

 

[suibhne]

Gromnir, assuming for the moment that you're not being deliberately obtuse, how do European restrictions play into management demands that the brothel be eliminated?

he stated quite clearly this was NOT the case with the brothel... please re-read.

Pretty sure that was added as an edit (which are inconsistently tracked on this board). I first read Grom's message within a few minutes of his posting, and I don't recall seeing that post-script. Of course, it's also possible I'm simply stupid.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Calling someone a 'fuckface' would be so much more appropriate when getting your chest ripped open.

My personal favourite is "Cunt". It carries an almost palpable power when used properly usually "you fucking cunt",in conversation if used correctly can sometimes stun someone before they go red with rage.

 

[taks]

Pretty sure that was added as an edit (which are inconsistently tracked on this board). I first read Grom's message within a few minutes of his posting, and I don't recall seeing that post-script. Of course, it's also possible I'm simply stupid.

understandable... i'm not out accusing you of the latter comment, btw, simply missing a bit in someone's post isn't really indicitive of anything other than a quick scan.

taks

 

[taks]

My personal favourite is "Cunt". It carries an almost palpable power when used properly usually "you fucking cunt",in conversation if used correctly can sometimes stun someone before they go red with rage.

yeah, but you really gotta use that one sparingly else it loses the "stun effect" quickly. a rare day indeed when i mutter the word and "fuck" is a regular part of my vocabulary (there's a vulgarity thread over at missy's lair that is rather interesting).

i think S_P is right, however, is that we're in the age of "don't offend" for whatever reason... maybe society will outgrow it? of course, i hate to envision the opposite *shudder*. wait a minute, life would then be nothing more than a heated thread in here with some sherrif05 and taks looooove going on!

taks

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

(there's a vulgarity thread over at missy's lair that is rather interesting).

I am on the job and shall inspect it immediately to increase my profanity aptitude.

 

[Gromnir]

Gromnir, assuming for the moment that you're not being deliberately obtuse, how do European restrictions play into management demands that the brothel be eliminated?

he stated quite clearly this was NOT the case with the brothel... please re-read.

Pretty sure that was added as an edit (which are inconsistently tracked on this board). I first read Grom's message within a few minutes of his posting, and I don't recall seeing that post-script. Of course, it's also possible I'm simply stupid.

you are stupid. no edit.

some of you folks is working real hard at being unreasonable.

forget for a moment that virtually every K 'tween publisher and developer is gonna have boilerplate that requires the developer to avoid making a game that would be illegal in any one of X number of countries.

toee had a mechanic that allowed kids to be killed. troika had to remove kids from game to prevent them from getting killed. you has past examples where certain euro and asian countries has blanket restrictions 'gainst child killing that required adjustments need be made to game. you has developers in past claiming that those euro and asian restrictions limited their development. so, when a game has child killing removed in a manner consistent with euro and asian restrictions, trying to pin on american politics as brio did seems foolish in the extreme and blame on wotc seems like a stretch.

this is not 'bout pr0n or violence in general. this is 'bout the child killing. ignore what you know 'bout Ks, and use simple reason for a change.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[suibhne]

Pretty sure that was added as an edit (which are inconsistently tracked on this board). I first read Grom's message within a few minutes of his posting, and I don't recall seeing that post-script. Of course, it's also possible I'm simply stupid.

you are stupid. no edit.

Between your conversations with us and your conversations with yourself, it sometimes gets pretty damn hard to keep track.

so, when a game has child killing removed in a manner consistent with euro and asian restrictions, trying to pin on american politics as brio did seems foolish in the extreme and blame on wotc seems like a stretch.

I'll buy that this is possible. But it also involves another factor: piss-poor Atari management. Troika devs indicated that Atari was hands-off to the point of nonexistence throughout most of the dev cycle, only to swoop in and demand that the children, the brothel, and a few choice dialogues all be excised a few short months before released. The brothel and the dialogues were apparently excised because of Hasbro's decency guidelines, and the removal of children happened in the same timeframe - so the impellent might have been entirely distinct from Hasbro, as you suggest, but Atari's (phenomenally poor) handling of it was identical.

 

[Briosafreak]

It was because of WoTC, and WoTC rules were in place because of the american context, D&D is forbidden in a few places like Saudi Arabia and had all sorts of problems in the States because of the religious zealots i`ve talked about, that`s it. There were no prior complaints in Europe with ToEE. Let`s stop fantasising and get to the topic please.

 

[Jed]

toee had a mechanic that allowed kids to be killed. troika had to remove kids from game to prevent them from getting killed.

ToEE had a mechanic? Was that a playable class, or only for NPCs? And what did this mechanic have against kids, anyway?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It was because of WoTC, and WoTC rules were in place because of the american context, D&D is forbidden in a few places like Saudi Arabia and had all sorts of problems in the States because of the religious zealots i`ve talked about, that`s it. There were no prior complaints in Europe with ToEE. Let`s stop fantasising and get to the topic please.

If they were tailoring the future of D&D to appeal to religious zealots, there wouldn't be magic spells in 3.5E. 'nuff said.

 

[Briosafreak]

Oh that`s compromise for you Saint, you should try politics one day, like i once did. Disney, Hasbro, the TV networks, the keyword is compromise, thankfully some still aren`t doing it. And it`s not a Republican only thing, Democrats have Tipper for music and Lieberman for games. But the infantilization of D&D is the result of a political agenda of religious right wing lobbies that have gotten more strength in the last years, i have no doubt about it.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's not a compromise, what pisses off the religious zealots about D&D is the use of magic.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Why Jesus used magic all the time, and the zealots don't mind the pantheon of heathenistic pagan gods in all the d&d settings?

 

[Taoreich]

Now you've entered the realm of religious semantics. "Magic" assumes some type of external "force" or "power" which one can draw from to perform some action. Jesus, as part of the holy trinity, is omnipotent and as such is not using "magic" but rather harnessing his own power. If you want to really define it in D&D terms, it's probably closer to psionics.

But this is off-topic, so please proceed with our regularly scheduled program