Squeenix Final Fantasy VII Remake Integrade - now on Steam

[Necroscope]

No because not for a moment have I thought that the game could be in 2 parts only. C'mon, there's: Kalm Town with Cloud's past segment/Grasslands and Mythril Mine/Junon segment/Costa Del Sol/Corel and Corel Prison with Gold Saucer segment/Cosmo Canyon segment/Nibelheim and Nibel mountains/Rocket Town/Wutai/Temple of the Ancients/Forgotten Capital segment/quite big Icicle segment... And there's more. To translate all of these into part 2 seems absurd.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Why? It was all in a single game originally to begin with.

 

[Necroscope]

And because original was so big they decided to release the remake in parts to begin with. As I said earlier, Midgar is not even 1/10 of the game, hence it seemed logical to me that they're going with chapters structure, where every chapter covers a significant portion of the game. 2 parts is a joke if part 1 is Midgar only.

 

[Taxnomore]

Wait until the dev team suddenly remembers you can go back to Midgar in the second game.

 

[Duraframe300]

Wait until the dev team suddenly remembers you can go back to Midgar in the second game.

You can only really return to the Shinra HQ in the later part (otherwise its *new* locations).

Why? It was all in a single game originally to begin with.

It was, but the storytelling gets fucked up beyond belief if you stretch out what was a smaller part of the original game Replayed it to 100% completion only a year ago, so I'm well aware how big it is. I've done so during a longer weekend break which took me 6 days all in all knowing the game quite extensivly beforehand.

I didn't even need one of those days to do everything that was available in Midgard.

That shit is not going to easily correct itself. This is not how storytelling works. What you end up is either a complete rewrite of the story (in which case its going to be less a *remake* and more a *re-imagining*) or a Midgard that is going to be so full of bloated content and foreshadowing that the story chokes itself to death midway through the first part.

 

[Necroscope]

I'm not sure if part 1 is only Midgar, as data miners extracted assets from some of the other locations as well from the demo, but if it is, it would take like 5 parts at least to give the original any justice.

 

[Tigranes]

Why does the entire game have to be expanded at the same rate that Midgar was? Sure, expanding Midgar by 30x while keeping the rest the same causes some weird problems, but it doesn't have to be a 1:1 ratio.

The thing is, the post-Midgar game doesn't actually have as much content as you think it would from the sense of space and freedom the game gives you. The world map is often a linear maze until late Disc 2 where you follow the breadcrumb from one scripted event to another. Many locations like Cid's town have nothing in them and nothing happening except the couple scripted events that you go for, and many areas are only used once.

So it's a question of whether they turn Cosmo Canyon into a "open world RPG town" with sidequests, or it stays more or less a scene in a scripted story-driven game just with some extra fights and cutscenes added in.

 

[Necroscope]

I'm far from expecting them to expand every location, in fact, I think it would a good idea to omit some of them and focus on those of particular interest.

You don't have much freedom in this game to begin with and Midgar is no exception to the rule. That said, wherever you go you can fool around a bit - get into houses and find some loot/talk to people, buy some stuff - even in Cid's town.

 

[Grauken]

Whatever they do, change too much, don't change enough, someone will be pissed

 

[GhostCow]

I'll be surprised if Squeenix manages to finish this remake. Each successive release will sell a fraction of the one that comes before it. Basically, the money won't even be there once the spectacle of Aeris's new death CGI rhythm dance minigame is spoiled for everyone and they finally get to see Cloud in a dress or whatever. People are quick to move on and the first game will be enough for most casuals.

I'm patiently waiting for the PC release. I don't care about this remake either way, but it's imperative I have a mod to remove Tifa's sports bra before I even consider launching the game.

FYI Cloud in a dress has already been leaked. I posted a link earlier in this thread

I wonder how do they plan to pull off the rest of the game given that the first part, which takes place in Midgar, feels like a game within the game and the moment you enter the world map the tone of the journey changes completely; there are no more closed urban settings - only small towns and villages. I always thought it was a very inconsistent idea for a game.

What about Junon? Aside from that it makes sense to me. Their world is still in the early stages of industrialization and most people are dirt poor.

 

[Duraframe300]

Why does the entire game have to be expanded at the same rate that Midgar was? Sure, expanding Midgar by 30x while keeping the rest the same causes some weird problems, but it doesn't have to be a 1:1 ratio.

The thing is, the post-Midgar game doesn't actually have as much content as you think it would from the sense of space and freedom the game gives you. The world map is often a linear maze until late Disc 2 where you follow the breadcrumb from one scripted event to another. Many locations like Cid's town have nothing in them and nothing happening except the couple scripted events that you go for, and many areas are only used once.

So it's a question of whether they turn Cosmo Canyon into a "open world RPG town" with sidequests, or it stays more or less a scene in a scripted story-driven game just with some extra fights and cutscenes added in.

Except there's a fucking huge difference between a 30:1 ratio and a 1:1 ratio.

Imagine if Frodo was fucking around in the shire till midway through the second book. Yeah, I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem. No sir.
Would exactly be the Lords of the Rings we all know.

That isn't just some *weird problems*. That's a disaster. A disaster you need someone really quality to fix. SQE doesn't have that person, arguably nobody in gaming does.

 

[Necroscope]

I wonder how do they plan to pull off the rest of the game given that the first part, which takes place in Midgar, feels like a game within the game and the moment you enter the world map the tone of the journey changes completely; there are no more closed urban settings - only small towns and villages. I always thought it was a very inconsistent idea for a game.

What about Junon? Aside from that it makes sense to me. Their world is still in the early stages of industrialization and most people are dirt poor.

Junon is mid sized and you're there for a brief period of time during which you are supposed to be in a hurry.

I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense, I'm saying that it's executed in an inconsistent fashion. You spend first 4 hours in a closed urban setting and the remaining 36 (+/-) travelling the world. It's confusing the first time you play the game because till the end of the bicycle chase you think you already know how the game plays and feels, but then BOOM! - the world map.

 

[kaisergeddon]

The big reveal of the overworld is supposed to be a thematic quality. Like, the juxtaposition of nature and industrialization, and how urban living "traps" people. It's clumsy but it ties into the ending cinematic and is overall Miyazaki-esque and in flavor with the themes at the time in Japanese media.

I dunno how SQE is planning on communiating that, or if they are even aware that's a big meaning behind FF7's story. Glorifying Midgar and making it into an open world theme park game in itself really isn't in the spirit of the original. Who knows, they're a dumb company.

 

[Tigranes]

Duraframe - that's fair. I think you're right.

I think the original game had a lot of unresolved tensions around the juxtaposition kaisergeddon mentions, though. On one hand I liked how Shinra starts out as an overwhelming totality, but is shown up as a tiny speck in a world that in many ways remains untouched and not properly understood by Shinra. On the other hand it stretches the imagination when Shinra apparently have their hands deep in Gold Saucer, Wutai, and everywhere else, but even a village like Kalm next door seems pretty peaceful and unbothered. Honestly, I don't think the writers had it all figured it out, I think it was partly a byproduct of typical animu "oh bad guy X turns out to be just a puppet of supernatural extraordinary bad guy Y".

Hojo is the figure that maintains a more interesting set of connections between Shinra, Sephiroth, Jenova and the world, of course, as well as Aeris, Vincent and the Prof. Guy is the true thematic glue for the game beyond Midgar.

 

[Starwars]

I think one thing that will keep me from enjoying this, no matter what, is that they now have the power to go full on anime. And the fact that I can now recognize that. When I first played FFVII, it was just this weird Japanese thing where I couldn't really recognize that anime mannerisms. It was sort of charming and weird on its own. I didn't have experience with anime, or Japanese culture really.

But now, just looking at the gameplay of this... I don't think I'm gonna be able to stand listening to the voiceactors doing their typical anime thing where they grunt and make other noises all the fucking time. Or listening to Barrett be the typical "anime black guy" character. As soon as voices are introduced, it's just over. Am I gonna have to actually listen to Cloud being anime-dramatic? Ugh...

Aah, the innocence that was lost...

 

[Duraframe300]

Hojo is the figure that maintains a more interesting set of connections between Shinra, Sephiroth, Jenova and the world, of course, as well as Aeris, Vincent and the Prof. Guy is the true thematic glue for the game beyond Midgar.

Yes, but his role is a bit diminished by japanese devs tendency to be bathshit crazy.

I mean him just chillin' with two hot babes at costa del sol and your party being like *whatever* still ranks up there with the most bizzare thematic breaks in video gaming.

 

[Tigranes]

Hojo is the figure that maintains a more interesting set of connections between Shinra, Sephiroth, Jenova and the world, of course, as well as Aeris, Vincent and the Prof. Guy is the true thematic glue for the game beyond Midgar.

Yes, but his role is a bit diminished by japanese devs tendency to be bathshit crazy.

I mean him just chillin' with two hot babes at costa del sol and your party being like *whatever* still ranks up there with the most bizzare thematic breaks in video gaming.

I mean, yeah. Red is supposed to be a victim of tortuous experiments but generally spends the game being "I'm a grown up too but secretly I miss daddy so much" dude. Cait Sith joins your party by force-reading you tarot cards.

I do think that weird mix of tones helped FF7 be less of a cringy melodramafest that it will probably be in the remake, though. Can you imagine full on gritty cinematic DYNE NOOOOOO!!!! voiced by black animu Barrett? Or dear god any and every scene involving full voiced CG Vincent?

What we really need is FF7 Cid spinoff with the original animations

 

[aweigh]

I'd pay to see a CID spinoff if you can beat his wife in it. Maybe as a minigame.

 

[Tigranes]

Wife beating is extremely important to you, I see

 

[Necroscope]

I do think that weird mix of tones helped FF7 be less of a cringy melodramafest that it will probably be in the remake, though. Can you imagine full on gritty cinematic DYNE NOOOOOO!!!! voiced by black animu Barrett? Or dear god any and every scene involving full voiced CG Vincent?

I think that what really helped was the fact that the game has very basic 3D graphics and animations outside of combat, hence a lot is left to your imagination. In full modern glory it's bound to turn into a cringe fest.

 

[Beastro]

I do think that weird mix of tones helped FF7 be less of a cringy melodramafest

That applies to pretty much all Final Fantasies up to IX (Can't speak for the rest, never played them beyond it).

The closest Square ever got to a serious FF with fairly good boundaries between humour and drama was FFIII(VI), but even that had its silly moments too.

I think that what really helped was the fact that the game has very basic 3D graphics and animations outside of combat, hence a lot is left to your imagination. In full modern glory it's bound to turn into a cringe fest.

Same applies even more to the older, top down FFs where a handful of poses had to pass for a wide range of expressions.

Duraframe - that's fair. I think you're right.

I think the original game had a lot of unresolved tensions around the juxtaposition kaisergeddon mentions, though. On one hand I liked how Shinra starts out as an overwhelming totality, but is shown up as a tiny speck in a world that in many ways remains untouched and not properly understood by Shinra. On the other hand it stretches the imagination when Shinra apparently have their hands deep in Gold Saucer, Wutai, and everywhere else, but even a village like Kalm next door seems pretty peaceful and unbothered. Honestly, I don't think the writers had it all figured it out, I think it was partly a byproduct of typical animu "oh bad guy X turns out to be just a puppet of supernatural extraordinary bad guy Y".

Hojo is the figure that maintains a more interesting set of connections between Shinra, Sephiroth, Jenova and the world, of course, as well as Aeris, Vincent and the Prof. Guy is the true thematic glue for the game beyond Midgar.

There's massive gulfs in the game, and I blame that on typical JRPG creating of locations based upon plot that leave the world both massive and yet empty.

I think they wanted it to be two things at the same time and failed to mesh them well.

Worse, IMO, is the plotting, especially how the game is pretty much a beginning (Midgar), middle (End disc1 at the Northern Mountain) and end (Return to Midgar and the Northern Mountain) with mostly filler thrown in. The first disc beyond Midgar is an aimless travelogue of locations without much story going on and the second disc is plot filler of busywork (Huge Materia) to occupy the player until the end can properly be set up.

I'm far from expecting them to expand every location, in fact, I think it would a good idea to omit some of them and focus on those of particular interest.

You don't have much freedom in this game to begin with and Midgar is no exception to the rule. That said, wherever you go you can fool around a bit - get into houses and find some loot/talk to people, buy some stuff - even in Cid's town.

Less locations would only highlight the problem that the heart of the game is in two locations that cannot be closely located next to one another (Midgar and the Northern Mountain) so a thin string of stuff was laid out to tie them together.

You take away that string and everything falls apart, even if the string wasn't great itself.

 

[Tigranes]

I agree 100% - at the same time, it's funny for me to consider how this ill-fitting clash also produced what was for kid Tigranes (and many other kids) a really enjoyable spectacle. At the time Square was often unparalleled in not just 'grafix' but their ability to deliver sound, music, cutscene direction, etc. in a delightful junk food spectacle. And the plotting of going from Midgar to Chocobo Land to Fort Condor to Snow Village etc helped them showcase anything and everything.

I mean if I had to direct the remake (and if there was no choice but to do a remake) I wouldn't even try to 'fix' it. It is what it is.

 

[Grauken]

FF7 wasn't so much narrative Zeitgeist, but definitely technical Zeitgeist. Those ugly char models, those 3d graphics, it blew minds then and showed a way forward for jRPGs. I don't like the game from a narrative viewpoint and really hate the end, or lets say the epilogue, the final fight was okay. But the game was, despite being a tonal mess, fun to play to my younger self. I can't imagine that a remake, however good from a technical standpoint it is, even captures an idota of the audience as the original did. Times have moved one, etc.

 

[Beastro]

Those ugly char models, those 3d graphics, it blew minds then and showed a way forward for jRPGs.

The entire opening with the bombing mission is built around that fact and is the heart of why it's so beloved.

You go from playing a short life (for a kid) of playing JRPGs that came before only to have that opening smack you in the face showing how different it is.

The thing is, I don't think that could ever be properly replicated.

Now that I think about it, it makes me think about my niece asking for movie recommendations appropriate for her age (No Alien movies, yet. Can't wait to see how she reacts to the chestburster scene). I found out she hasn't watched Jurassic Park yet, only the first Jurassic World. JPs impact is based around a similar technical/cultural (dino lovers compared to video game lovers with FFVII) zeitgeist of people knowing dinosaurs as slow, lumbering creatures mostly made of stop-motion or dressed up lizards in films before that movie with the reveal hitting home showing them in a way people had never seen them before.

I think if she sees that movie it won't have that same impact, both from seeing JW as well as lacking that context to add power to seeing the dinosaurs in it.

 

[Grauken]

do kids these days even love dinosaurs? I loved them back then, but I have no clue if that's still something kids are into

My sister would have my head if I showed my niece Alien