Squeenix Final Fantasy VII Remake Integrade - now on Steam

[Abu Antar]

People calling FFIX shit. Cool bros, too.

"I'm sharpening my knife, Kupo."

"Farewell my sweet, lovable morons."

 

[Tigranes]

It's literally one random dude who was seized with distaste for it for whatever reason that doesn't make much sense to the rest of us. Oh well. It happens.

 

[Viata]

Parasite Eve 1 & 2.

Amazing games from the time when Square used to make good games. The union of Square and Enix killed two companies, sadly.

 

[Duraframe300]

Parasite Eve started as Sakaguchi's original pitch for Final Fantasy VII! (The reason for Midgard's existence and presumably the existence of body horror in VII's plot.) Sakaguchi himself then took to get the PE license for the game instead after it was rejected.

Still wanted to hear your take though.

Eh, it would lead to pointless, subjective arguing. I have a vastly different view on FF7's customization (which ended up boring for me more than anything) and if you call Kuja a cuck, you wouldn't want to know the 3 page rant I have about Sephiroth. Not worth it. I do get where you're coming from as well, so again, not like we'll get something out of this.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

If you think Tactics or Vagrant Story could ever be numbered FF games you're delusional. They're clearly much lower budget games than the PS1 FF trilogy.

Final Fantasy VII was at the time the most expensive video game ever produced, with a development budget estimated between $40,000,000 (equivalent to $64,000,000 in 2020) and $45,000,000 (equivalent to $73,000,000 in 2020). Development of the final version took a staff of between 100 and 150 people just over a year to complete.

I can't find the numbers for Tactics, but it is a very focused game, largely just story and combat, with simple (though consistent) graphics. Compare to FF7 with its many FMVs, varied & more detailed graphical styles (except the chibi dolls), features a world map and all that entails (e.g vehicles, rendering challenges), plenty mini-games that are almost games in themselves: two racing games, a RTS game, submarine game, a snowboarding game and then some, they went absolutely crazy with the mainline PS1 Final Fantasy games, kitchen sink design galore.

They're both good as they are; spin-off and an alt IP. They're not even anything like Final Fantasy, especially Vagrant Story. Tactics just uses some loose concepts and does it own thing.

Speaking of alt. Squaresoft IPs, I highly recommend you check out Parasite Eve 1 & 2. Yes I'm talking to YOU. Both very good. Parasite Eve is easily Square's second best IP after FF. Better than Vagrant Story (which comes in at third place?). Forget any nonsense you may read about it being a "cinematic" RPG. As usual the shit marketing hellspawn spews is taken as gospel by gamers. It is considerably less cinematic than FF, and adequately gameplay-centric.

Vagrant Story is like the best looking game on the PSX. I'm just saying the way they started doing stuff in the PS2 era changed. Going by how they did things during the PSX era you wouldn't expect things like a X-2 and the main numbered game to be a MMORPG...but they were. If they were operating in the '90s like they were in the 2000s there's no reason to think they wouldn't just give Tactics a number and have it be the thing between the 7 and 8 we got. The big "I see why this isn't Final Fantasy 8" thing with Tactics at the time, even though the classes and look are all throwbacks to older FF games, was that it was a Tactical RPG as opposed to the normal Final Fantasy combat system; but having a normal Final Fantasy combat system wouldn't be a thing the numbered games would always have starting with FF11. Would've probably also helped sell more copies; main Final Fantasy games selling better is why Final Fantasy 11 is called Final Fantasy 11 as opposed to just being called Final Fantasy Online.

I don't think Tactics looking like it did, and it looked pretty good, (it's sprites and 3D environments have also aged better than FF7) would've matter as much as you're making out. It was a '97/'98 game. The competition of the time was other sprite based games like Tales of Destiny, Star Ocean: Second Son, Breath of Fire 3, and Grandia. As far as I remember the graphics were praised at the time it released.

I had a friend that loved CRPGs and JRPGs and had a PSX, so I basically played every JRPG on the system that came here. I didn't play everything, but I do think I played all the SquareSoft stuff, both the original PSX stuff and the rereleased stuff.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Ash FF7 is fairly linear as all hell. It was a complete step back from FF6. After the first third of the game, when the player enters the world of ruin, it becomes completely open.

 

[Hassar]

Parasite Eve started as Sakaguchi's original pitch for Final Fantasy VII! (The reason for Midgard's existence and presumably the existence of body horror in VII's plot.) Sakaguchi himself then took to get the PE license for the game instead after it was rejected.

Still wanted to hear your take though.

Eh, it would lead to pointless, subjective arguing. I have a vastly different view on FF7's customization (which ended up boring for me more than anything) and if you call Kuja a cuck, you wouldn't want to know the 3 page rant I have about Sephiroth. Not worth it. I do get where you're coming from as well, so again, not like we'll get something out of this.

I’d be interested in reading your three page rant if you ever get around to writing it. But I have a higher tolerance for personal opinion than most and don’t think most JRPG antagonists are that intriguing.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's literally one random dude who was seized with distaste for it for whatever reason that doesn't make much sense to the rest of us. Oh well. It happens.

The JRPG subforum is the only one where Codexers start to cry when someone doesn't share the opinion of the hivemind (and IGN). Very monocled indeed.

"In truth, Final Fantasy IX is probably the most definitive Final Fantasy experience ever" https://sea.ign.com/final-fantasy-i...-fantasy-game-that-came-out-at-the-wrong-time

 

[Duraframe300]

It's literally one random dude who was seized with distaste for it for whatever reason that doesn't make much sense to the rest of us. Oh well. It happens.

The JRPG subforum is the only one where Codexers start to cry when someone doesn't share the opinion of the hivemind (and IGN). Very monocled indeed.

"In truth, Final Fantasy IX is probably the most definitive Final Fantasy experience ever" https://sea.ign.com/final-fantasy-i...-fantasy-game-that-came-out-at-the-wrong-time

(and IGN)

And Hironobu Sakaguchi. Which the article mentions btw right after your quote.

as well as series creator Hironobu Sakaguchi’s favourite entry in the franchise.

So, I don't really know what the point here is. You aren't the only one and won't be the last disliking IX. Believe me. Nothing to do with a *hivemind*.

 

[Abu Antar]

It's literally one random dude who was seized with distaste for it for whatever reason that doesn't make much sense to the rest of us. Oh well. It happens.

The JRPG subforum is the only one where Codexers start to cry when someone doesn't share the opinion of the hivemind (and IGN). Very monocled indeed.

"In truth, Final Fantasy IX is probably the most definitive Final Fantasy experience ever" https://sea.ign.com/final-fantasy-i...-fantasy-game-that-came-out-at-the-wrong-time

JRPG section is the sanest place on the Codex. It's okay if you dislike something that others enjoy. No one will self-eject, flip out or start rambling.

At most, we might try to explain what we like about a game, or make some jokes.

This section is very chill.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's literally one random dude who was seized with distaste for it for whatever reason that doesn't make much sense to the rest of us. Oh well. It happens.

The JRPG subforum is the only one where Codexers start to cry when someone doesn't share the opinion of the hivemind (and IGN). Very monocled indeed.

"In truth, Final Fantasy IX is probably the most definitive Final Fantasy experience ever" https://sea.ign.com/final-fantasy-i...-fantasy-game-that-came-out-at-the-wrong-time

JRPG section is the sanest place on the Codex. It's okay if you dislike something that others enjoy. No one will self-eject, flip out or start rambling.

At most, we might try to explain what we like about a game, or make some jokes.

This section is very chill.

My post was primarily at Tigranes. I feel I should explain that since apparently it went over like a lead balloon.

Other than that, I'd generally agree with you. At least most/all of the jrpg posters actually play games.

 

[Abu Antar]

Nah, I know it was aimed at him, but even he is sane.

 

[Ninjerk]

Was Final Fantasy created because of their love of Phantasie?

The wikipedia has a good overview of all we know about FF creation:

Hironobu Sakaguchi had intended to make a role-playing game (RPG) for a long time, but his employer Square refused to give him permission as it expected low sales of such a product.[9] However, when the RPG Dragon Quest was released and proved to be a hit in Japan, the company reconsidered its stance on the genre and approved Sakaguchi's vision of an RPG inspired by Ultima and Wizardry.[9] Only three of his colleagues volunteered to join this project headed by him because he was thought of as a "rough boss" in spite of his unsuccessful creations.[10] Eventually, Final Fantasy was developed by a team of seven core staff members within Square referred to as the "A-Team".[11][12] Sakaguchi convinced fellow game designers Koichi Ishii and Akitoshi Kawazu to join the project. Kawazu was mainly responsible for the battle system and sequences, which he based heavily on the tabletop game Dungeons & Dragons and the RPG Wizardry. For example, enemies' weaknesses to elements such as fire and ice had not been included in Japanese RPGs up until that point. Kawazu had grown fond of such aspects of Western RPGs and decided to incorporate them into Final Fantasy. He also advocated the player's option to freely choose their own party member classes at the beginning of the game as he feels "the fun in an RPG begins when you create a character".[9]

The scenario was written by freelance writer Kenji Terada, based on a story by Sakaguchi.[4][12] Ishii heavily influenced the game's setting with his idea of the crystals.[10] He also suggested illustrator Yoshitaka Amano as character designer, but Sakaguchi declined at first as he had never heard the artist's name before. When Sakaguchi showed Ishii some drawings on magazine clippings and told him that this was the art style he was looking for, Ishii revealed to him that these were actually created by Amano, hence leading to his involvement in the game.[10] The music for Final Fantasy was composed by Nobuo Uematsu and marked his 16th video game music composition.[6] Iranian-American programmer Nasir Gebelli was hired to code the game. He initially tried to understand all aspects of the gameplay but was soon advised by Sakaguchi to just program the design concepts so he did not have to explain everything to Gebelli in detail.[10] Gebelli was also responsible for creating what is considered to be the first RPG minigame, a sliding puzzle, which he added into the game despite it not being part of the original game design.[13] Among the other developers were graphic designer Kazuko Shibuya, programmers Kiyoshi Yoshii and Ken Narita, as well as debugger Hiroyuki Ito.[14][15][16][17][18] When the project started to show promise, designer Hiromichi Tanaka and his "B-Team" joined to aid development.[10][11] The lack of faith in Sakaguchi's team, as well as its unpopularity within the company, motivated the staff members to give their best.

I don't know if DnD, Wizardry and Ultima were the only western inspiration for FF, but they are the only ones mentioned as far as I know.

Interesting to read this with Fallout's development in mind. Put some motivated, unpopular people in a closet at the studio and see what comes out.

 

[Ash]

Ash FF7 is fairly linear as all hell. It was a complete step back from FF6. After the first third of the game, when the player enters the world of ruin, it becomes completely open.

Not true.

FF7 is not entirely linear: Wutai, Gogonga Swamp, Sunken Gelnika, Forest of the Ancients are all optional locations, not including smaller areas (e.g Chocobo Sage, Materia Caves, Lucrecia's Waterfall) or optional opportunities to return to locations late game for varying purposes.

FF6 WoR is also largely linear until you get the airship. By this point you've already done half of WoR. Once it opens up it is indeed nicely non-linear, however:

FF6 also comes with the polar opposite to WoR too, that being the first third or so of the game prior to Zozo. The gameplay is very (not wholly) linear and basic until espers come into play to add some non-linear character building and progression, you get the airship etc. FF7 starts to slowly branch as a game approximately the moment you leave midgar (well, after the annoying flashback I suppose). Once you get more materia and more materia slots, and Enemy skill materia, and the game lets you start choosing party members from this point. FF6 on the other hand doesn't introduce much new in the way of gameplay until Zozo and it is quite painful. Also FF6 RPG systems are (slightly) declined over FF5 if you want to talk about decline from previous entries. FF5 also introduced its form of the espers/non-linear character building (crystals) like 2 hours in. It is a real shame that FF6 keeps things simple and on-rails for so long. 6-8 hours?

Dungeon/level design is another matter with largely the same outcome. They both have their linear locations and not so linear locations (Magitek Factory (FF6), Great Glacier (FF7)).

Stop hating. FF5-FF9 are all magical. Gameplay, Story, Music, charming Art, they got it all. Liking one but not the other makes zero sense to me. ...except 8 and its broken systems, weird ass story, and emoAnimeNomura characters. But I still like it regardless. Still a lot to love (Triple Triad motherfucker!).

 

[Tigranes]

FF7's nonlinearity is weird in the sense that it's only nonlinear if you actively don't check out a new location that's on your way or shows up on the map - and there's really not much branching involved, only when/whether you take care of certain sidequests. I mean, the entire world map is essentially drawn to conceal a corridor that winds out from Midgar. I don't think it's a huge problem, and FF7 is such a cinematic story driven experience in the first half anyway that it comes part and parcel.

FF9 also flatters to deceive for exploration in a different way, where locations often look expansive but once you know the place inside and out, you realise it's like three rooms and corridors. But I think this is down to the weird Wizardry heritage here: if you're playing blind and your nonoptimised party is lost in a dungeon like the Desert Palace, it can get really dangerous. The issue is that you can't blast through combat quickly like in a real Wizardry, so it can get frustrating for an FF game to actually present attrition.

 

[Ash]

Nah, the issue is FF9's slow as fuck battle speed. All the rest either have relatively fast battle speed (5 for example) or reasonable speed (7, stupid summon materia aside). I have no idea what they were thinking with 9. Its most fatal flaw.

FF with proper attrition is awesome (I play them all with much-needed hard difficulty mods these days).

 

[Viata]

The fatal flaw goes away when you play it in an emulator(which is the default option to play any jrpg, anyway).

 

[Ash]

It does not. Playing at faster speeds fucks with the audio-visual experience, something pretty important to a FF game. The ability to set lightning fast speeds also encourages easy as fuck grinding which is also decline. Grinding is degeneracy (in extreme contexts) so it taking a lot of time (in any RPG) at least discourages it and amplifies how degenerate it really is, goes hand-in-hand together perfectly. That said, the game is so slow that abusing FForward should indeed probably be normalized practice regardless. But it doesn't solve the problem without downside. The game should have just had speeds seen in older FF games by default. Battle load fade effect is long, intro battle initialization & cinematics are long, ATB gauge fill time is super slow, even the time after you select a command and the character actually performs that command is long. Then the animations themselves.
What the hell were they thinking. Surely it wasn't a matter of processing speeds too, the 3D battle graphics are good for the time/hardware but it clearly isn't that demanding. They fucked up real bad. Either no optimization efforts or it is this way by design, which is just stupid...
FF8 is similar graphically but is of a reasonable-ish speed, so it implies FF9 is this way by design (or neglect). I can't believe how stupid this is. I look past it and love the game but it is just fucking stupid and drags the game down.

 

[Viata]

If you are grinding in a jrpg, you are playing it wrong. More so in a FF game. If it encourages people to do x, it's not a reason to complain about it. Allowing a player to save anywhere in a game encourages people to savescum their way, but it also allows people to save it anywhere they want and then go back to play it later. Also, speeding the frames during the battle loading will not kill your game, so there is no flaw in that game for me at all.

 

[Ash]

If it encourages people to do x, it's not a reason to complain about it.

It absolutely is. What a designer encourages a player to do or not do through design, directly or indirectly, is a very important factor to consider in game design. Baseline example being your game design is shit, frustrating, boring or unnecessarily slow, that it encourages a player to turn it off! But it applies to everything, and is especially important with gameplay design e.g balance.

 

[Tigranes]

I emulate now of course, and even Switch versions have speed up options, but I was speaking about the design flaws in the original releases. FF9 is definitely slower, but FF8 had criminally long GF's, for example (and broken Draw system anyway), while FF7 I would argue still isn't that fast. But I can't see how they'd get any faster than that without abstractions that give up on the style, so it's become a non-negotiable tradeoff for them.

 

[Viata]

If it encourages people to do x, it's not a reason to complain about it.

It absolutely is. What a designer encourages a player to do or not do through design, directly or indirectly, is a very important factor to consider in game design.

You should never punish players because some people will abuse a system. Trying to avoid that always make us having a shit game at the end.

 

[Ash]

Literally all game designers try to avoid abusable systems and mechanics to varying, but typically strict degrees. If you don't you get a broken unbalanced mess of a game, such as Morrowind (and this is not even an extreme example as the balance to some degree does hold out at first, for a time). It's not "punishing" players, it's just game design.

"Here's an infinite rocket launcher on the first level dear player, but it's your fault if you abuse it hahahaha *evil laugh*. It wouldn't be fair to "punish" other players who don't abuse it!"

Horseshit. Same as save anywhere an unlimited amount of times retardation. The player has no way of gauging what even is sensible use of an infinite resource, how in the world could they when they have no idea what type of challenges and resources and so on is ahead? Only the designer that actually knows the game inside out can determine that.
Instant death trap? Oh you should have saved! But wait, I'm not supposed to abuse save!? Too bad sucker!

The proper way to address FF9 without any downsides is to make the battle speed itself faster, not just slap on a FForward feature. But since that isn't really possible without the source code, FFward it is.

 

[Viata]

"Here's an infinite rocket launcher on the first level dear player, but it's your fault if you abuse it hahahaha *evil laugh*. It wouldn't be fair to "punish" other players who don't abuse it!"

If you are comparing that with my case about being able to save everywhere, then we are talking about completely different things and we might as well just agree to disagree and move on.

Horseshit. Same as save anywhere an unlimited amount of times retardation. The player has no way of gauging what even is sensible use of an infinite resource, how in the world could they when they have no idea what type of challenges and resources and so on is ahead? Only the designer that actually knows the game inside out can determine that.
Instant death trap? Oh you should have saved! But wait, I'm not supposed to abuse save!? Too bad sucker!

My point was about people savescuming in crpgs to be able to pass some skill checks. That is abusing a mechanic(being able to save anywhere) so you can check the requirement of some skill check, see if it's worth and if not, load and not waste any item to pass it. Some devs use that argument not to allow people to save anywhere.

 

[Sykar]

Not sure if it was posted since it is a year old already but found it by accident today watching a best combat system video and that YTber mentioned her channel and I thought that this was quite cute:


Think around 1 hour 14 minutes is the first interaction and her reaction? Never played the remake so I assume that is the first time she talks.

Had a nice laugh when she asked "Where did I go?" while she was playing Cloud trying to go after Aerith.