Final Fantasy XVI

[Hassar]

I don't think we will ever see a return to "oldschool Final Fantasy". Really oldschool Final Fantasy, like the first 5 games, had a gameplay loop centered around exploration. This started fading away in 6 as the games gradually focusing more and more on constricting you to a linear story. By the time of FFIX, you're play a full blown movie game where you can't go off the rails and do your own thing until several hours into disc 3, at which point you realize that there is nothing to explore and that the combat sucks. FF10 gets rid of any pretense of exploration by cutting out the world map, and FF13 realized that hundreds of random encounters were detrimental to the movie game experience and allowed you to skip them.

So that leaves ATB combat and the aesthetics as the last defining features of the brand to cling to, which have also been eschewed. Gameplay wise, FF13 isn't much different from FF10, but it had futuristic aesthetics that FF didn't want. FF15 ditched the ATB combat so now you have a futuristic action game that is completely unrecgonizeable as a Final Fantasy game. To me, FF16 is in the same boat where it looks too much like Dragon Age or the Witcher or Game of Thrones with DMC button masher combat. It doesn't look FF at all.

I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

Let's see, I read some interviews with Yoshida and other members of the team and they all say they're fans of Matsuno. But honestly I think Square is too fall gone. And I really not digging the aesthetics.

Yoshida surely claims he likes Matsuno's stories but the writing of the last three FFXIV expansions says otherwise.

I’m glad I’m not the only player who felt that way about FFIX

 

[mediocrepoet]

Nice ratio

What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.

Honestly, as a medieval and ancient history dork, this is a major frustration, too. Black people were not common but they were there along with Muslims, Jews, and a host of other ethnic communities. It’s one of the most frustrating things about debating racists.

The Codex teaches the Truth: Muslims, Jews, and a host of other ethnic communities are an SJW creation to take down the West! Have you noticed that there are no real African bones prior to 1542!?

No idea what that has to do with any FF title though which have never been set on Earth in any era.

 

[Duraframe300]

I don't think we will ever see a return to "oldschool Final Fantasy". Really oldschool Final Fantasy, like the first 5 games, had a gameplay loop centered around exploration.

I mean I understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't say older FF games were particularly *centered* around exploration, especially in comparison to other games of the time.

But at least 4 is an exception here. That game is straight up as linear as later titles.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I don't think we will ever see a return to "oldschool Final Fantasy". Really oldschool Final Fantasy, like the first 5 games, had a gameplay loop centered around exploration.

I mean I understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't say older FF games were particularly *centered* around exploration, especially in comparison to other games of the time.

But at least 4 is an exception here. That game is straight up as linear as later titles.

4 and 6 felt similar in the focus on story and set characters that many of the other early titles weren't, but 4 felt more combat centric and like a classic blobber than 6. Both had things like long corridors with a treasure at the end, but 4 had (as I recall, feel free to correct me) more secret passages and a higher random encounter rate, particularly on the moon. This factor alone makes it feel more like say, Bard's Tale III, than Final Fantasy VII.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yoshida surely claims he likes Matsuno's stories but the writing of the last three FFXIV expansions says otherwise.

Can you elaborate for those of us that don't like to play MMOs?

The base game and the first expansion set up a grounded, FFXII-esque world where resources are not infinite and there is conflict and competition between countries and political intrigue within them. There is fantasy adventures where you fight monsters yes, but that stuff is a sideshow to the ground intrigue. While the player character is physically very strong, he and the other heroes struggle to improve society or the geopolitical situation as a whole. But then FFXIV starts turning into a fairy tale where the heroes overpower anything, anyone who isn't standing in their hugtub is automatically a villain, everything goes right for the heroes while the villains lose everything (and the heroes have the audacity to complain about "how they've lost so much!"). The legitimate grievances of the antagonists are ignored. Plotlines that had been built up since ARR are dropped or retconned. The FFXIV story shifts from being a grounded geopolitical struggle like in FF12, and turns into a Kingdom Hearts-esque plot about Darkness vs Light and fighting Organization XIII rejects. Any semblance of stakes evaporates as main characters stop dying and everything goes right for the heroes while the villains lose everything. The game became a toothless story.

Example. Spoilers for the ending of ARR

The ARR patch storyline is about Ul'dah. At first glance it is a fantastical disney kingdom in the desert, but when you look under the surface you find a nasty plutocracy where the rich buy seats on the council table and employ mercenary armies. Loansharks and slavers galore. There is a coliseum where slaves are devoured by monsters and fight each other to the death. One of the main characters, Nanamo, is the Sultana (queen) of Ul'dah, and becomes increasingly demoralized as she realizes just how little power she truly wields and just how incapable of changing the situation she is.

Then the plutocrats decide to get rid of her. You get framed and arrested for her murder and your party members stay behind and sacrifice themselves so you can escape.

Then comes the next expansion where everyone gets resurrected (Nanamo and the guys who stayed behind), the bad guys get off scott free, and the assassination is swept under the rug, just like that. And crap like this starts happening over and over and over.

FFXIV's trailers routinely lie, promising a return to the more nuanced and weighty ARR style of game, where there was weight, but time and again it turns out to be baloney. FFXVI is being made by the same devs so I can't help but wonder if the trailers are also lying too.

 

[Duraframe300]

FFXIV's trailers routinely lie, promising a return to the more nuanced and weighty ARR style of game, where there was weight, but time and again it turns out to be baloney.

Thanks for the write-up. But just to make it clear, did the plotline get worse post Heavensward or did it already start with Heavensward?

Takai and Maehiro were assistant director and main scenario writer respectively up until that point, so they might have just been replaced with worse people which sunk the game.

(Which would make sense considering those are exactly the two positions that would have an impact on quality. Takai by picking up Yoshida's slack up until that point and Maehiro by, well, being the main writer)

If the decline already started with Heavensward that would be a blow of course.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

FFXIV's trailers routinely lie, promising a return to the more nuanced and weighty ARR style of game, where there was weight, but time and again it turns out to be baloney.

Thanks for the write-up. But just to make it clear, did the plotline get worse post Heavensward or did it already start with Heavensward?

Takai and Maehiro were assistant director and main scenario writer respectively up until that point, so they might have just been replaced with worse people which sunk the game.

(Which would make sense considering those are exactly the two positions that would have an impact on quality. Takai by picking up Yoshida's slack up until that point and Maehiro by, well, being the main writer)

If the decline already started with Heavensward that would be a blow of course.

A lot FFXIV fans will tell you that the decline began in the expansion after, Stormblood, but IMO you see symptoms of the decline beginning during Heavensward. You have the aforementioned resurrections that happened straight off the bat, and then you have other stuff like the Ishgard story hyping up sacrifices, only to never deliver on it (3.2's ending monologue). You also have the Church's reasons for doing what they did being swept under the rug and the Church simply being made out as one dimensional antagonists before being ousted so the heroes can take over unopposed. The reason why HW usually gets a pass from FFXIV fans is that you still see some decent, grounded ARR-esque moments in HW, such as the heroes trying to broker a peace between Ishgard and the Dragons, but the aggrieved families of those who died in the war don't buy into it right off the bat.

 

[Duraframe300]

FFXIV's trailers routinely lie, promising a return to the more nuanced and weighty ARR style of game, where there was weight, but time and again it turns out to be baloney.

Thanks for the write-up. But just to make it clear, did the plotline get worse post Heavensward or did it already start with Heavensward?

Takai and Maehiro were assistant director and main scenario writer respectively up until that point, so they might have just been replaced with worse people which sunk the game.

(Which would make sense considering those are exactly the two positions that would have an impact on quality. Takai by picking up Yoshida's slack up until that point and Maehiro by, well, being the main writer)

If the decline already started with Heavensward that would be a blow of course.

A lot FFXIV fans will tell you that the decline began in the expansion after, Stormblood, but IMO you see symptoms of the decline beginning during Heavensward. You have the aforementioned resurrections that happened straight off the bat, and then you have other stuff like the Ishgard story hyping up sacrifices, only to never deliver on it (3.2's ending monologue). You also have the Church's reasons for doing what they did being swept under the rug and the Church simply being made out as one dimensional antagonists before being ousted so the heroes can take over unopposed. The reason why HW usually gets a pass from FFXIV fans is that you still see some decent, grounded ARR-esque moments in HW, such as the heroes trying to broker a peace between Ishgard and the Dragons, but the aggrieved families of those who died in the war don't buy into it right off the bat.

They went out (and presumably XVI began) directly after 3.0, so Patch content doesn't apply. Still shame about the resurrections.

 

[Abu Antar]

-The game will have a demo closer to release.
-There will be NG+ with character progress carrying over, and stronger enemies.
-There will be difficulty settings.
-Release date will be announced before the end of 2022. (At the VGAs?)

 

[Shrimp]

Seems like the PS5 exclusivity is for six months. Release is also 'anticipated' to be in summer of 2023. At least according to this ad.

 

[notpl]

Nice ratio

What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.

Honestly, as a medieval and ancient history dork, this is a major frustration, too. Black people were not common but they were there along with Muslims, Jews, and a host of other ethnic communities. It’s one of the most frustrating things about debating racists.

The Codex teaches the Truth: Muslims, Jews, and a host of other ethnic communities are an SJW creation to take down the West! Have you noticed that there are no real African bones prior to 1542!?

No idea what that has to do with any FF title though which have never been set on Earth in any era.

Did you actually read Yoshida's incredibly thoughtful, detailed response to the question?

 

[†††]

Fellow hate criminals, we finally got our game

 

[welly321]

Ok now im hyped

 

[mediocrepoet]

Fellow hate criminals, we finally got our game

View attachment 31201

Man, I would've thought this was awesome when I was 13.

 

[Dadd]

They meant they hate crimes.

 

[Palomides]

What I love are some of the comments in other places, where upon seeing some of the whitest people ever, say, "aren't they Asian?"

 

[Duraframe300]

 

[Duraframe300]

Confirms Party and Cities/All the other stuff (you only see it for like 1 second though).

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I am puzzled why Square waited TWO YEARS to show that the game wasn't just going to be you by yourself, but there would be a party of characters you would get to fight alongside with.

Really not keen on the generic orchestra/choral music.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Oh thank God, games are finally copying movies enough so that we now get the shaky cam just in case you could figure out what the hell was happening.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fellow hate criminals, we finally got our game

View attachment 31201

Man, I would've thought this was awesome when I was 13.

I'm sorry you're gay.

 

[Duraframe300]

I am puzzled why Square waited TWO YEARS to show that the game wasn't just going to be you by yourself, but there would be a party of characters you would get to fight alongside with.

Really not keen on the generic orchestra/choral music.

Whoever makes the trailers really goes for the cinematic appeal and fast editing. That's why.

 

[Duraframe300]

Some Artwork


Clive Rosfield

Jill Warrick

Cidolfus Telamon

Torgal

Torgal as a pup

Then some screens

 

[Dadd]

Do helmets exist in this universe?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Holy shit
I actually hyped
For a Final Fantasy game