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Dadd

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What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.
 

TheImplodingVoice

Dumbfuck!
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Didn't care for 10, seemed like it was made for pre-teen girls
Oh you should definitely play X-2 then.
Both X and X-2 were good. The teen-pop bullshit was just for flare. But X-2 had a great story. Dressphere were a great addition to the battle system. The story was also pretty good. And if you go through the trouble of getting 100% you are rewarded with a fantastic ending. XIII is where the decline began. X was great as well.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
My headcanon is that the most powerful men in Square-Enix are old Enix guys who were jealous of FF back in the day and have decided to sabotage the brand beyond repair as revenge.
it's just retarded exec in SE really really want to be a "globul" company and ape western design and appeal in their market, it's just they are like 5 years behind

with Forespoken as a start in 10 years time you will see diverse final fantasy with dozens different sexuality

they at least acknowledge there are some appeal to older style JRPGs and try to make a small studio creating a checklist based games (the Setsuna devs) but ended up getting something with quality made by Kemco albeit with nicer graphics

then there is these smaller studios making Braverly series and the newer games such as Triangle Strategy but these are probably getting made because they are coop with Nintendo which reigned SE most retarded impulses
 

Duraframe300

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Nice ratio
What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.
Japanese devs

the-truman-show-jim-carrey.gif
 

Duraframe300

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X was great as well.
Don't you mean XII?
XII was good enough as well. If you pretend Vaan and Penelo doesn't exist.
Not hard considering that's how much they talk or do anything.

Vaan and Penelo hate is another one of those popular opinions I haven't really gotten over the years. Personally *indifferent* is the best way to describe my feelings towards them. They're not annoying, they're not bad, they're just *there*. They never stopped me from enjoying what FFXII actually does well.

So, meh.
 
Last edited:
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Codex Year of the Donut
Nice ratio
What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.
The source they cite:
Black saints were proclaimed in parts of medieval Europe when the Holy Roman Emperors, beginning with Charles IV's ascension in 1346, adopted blacks into the iconography of their realm. The statue of St. Maurice in the chapel of St. Kilian at Magdeburg and the 17th-century bust and older relics of St. Gregory the Moor at the church of St. Gereon in Cologne testify to the strength of these notions.
:nocountryforshitposters:
  1. Nobody alive knows what Saint Maurice looked like. The first portrayal of him as black was over a millennia after his death. There are just as many, if not more, portrayals of him as another race. We don't even know if he really existed.
  2. Moor did not and does not mean black.
The person who wrote this was a professor at Howard University, and I'm not surprised in the least. For non-Americans, it's one of our black colleges that regularly rank at the absolute bottom of every positive statistic you can think of. Yep, that's right, they have their own special segregated adult daycare centers so they don't have to interact with wypipo.
 

S.torch

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Dadd if you're going to put that trash at least put it on spoiler. Imagine waking up in the morning and having to read propagandistic vomite.

Especially after all those years of Kitase/Nomura/Toryiama/Nojima/Tabata Final Fantasy's we're finally getting one again by devs from the Ivalice side of things.

Literally every single people you mentioned here has more to do with actual Final Fantasy titles and JRPGs.
 

Duraframe300

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Dadd if you're going to put that trash at least put it on spoiler. Imagine waking up in the morning and having to read propagandistic vomite.

Especially after all those years of Kitase/Nomura/Toryiama/Nojima/Tabata Final Fantasy's we're finally getting one again by devs from the Ivalice side of things.

Literally every single people you mentioned here has more to do with actual Final Fantasy titles and JRPGs.
Meh.

Like really meh.

I enjoy a lot of their titles but Kitase & Co are exactly the ones responsible for the decline of Square Enix in the last 20 years.
 

Duraframe300

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Since Kitase took over as Creative Director from Sakaguchi the company declined:

- Kingdom Hearts 2+ shit
- Final Fantasy VII expanded universe shit
- Final Fantasy 13, 15
- The buttfucking Parasite Eve experienced with 3rd Birthday

All stems from that clique inside Square Enix getting unrestricted access to the company. If you have a fetish for this shit and consider it the height of jrpgs, I won't stop you. But yeah. :obviously:
 
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Machocruz

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Even if minorities were in medieval Europe, they weren't making world altering power plays that these games' plots revolve around and often take to even further extremes. The vast majorities of Euros weren't either, they were in the background like most little people, but blacks are supposed to be on stage right up there with the mystical heroes, kings, demigods, etc. in these stories. Sure, put brown folks in the game, but they shouldn't be standing next to the hero or villain in the trailers, but in the background running away with the other commoners when Ifrit is destroying their village.
 

S.torch

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Since Kitase took over as Creative Director from Sakaguchi the company declined:

- Kingdom Hearts 2+ shit
- Final Fantasy VII expanded universe shit
- Final Fantasy 13, 15
- The buttfucking Parasite Eve experienced with 3rd Birthday

All stems from that clique inside Square Enix getting unrestricted access to the company. If you have a fetish for this shit and consider it the height of jrpgs, I won't stop you. But yeah. :obviously:

I was talking before they throwed the original fans and their roots under the bus. Yes, most of what you said is right. But this game doesn't look exactly like a return to tradition.
 
Self-Ejected

Dadd

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@Dadd if you're going to put that trash at least put it on spoiler. Imagine waking up in the morning and having to read propagandistic vomite.
I thought people reading this thread were used to trash.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
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Since Kitase took over as Creative Director from Sakaguchi the company declined:

- Kingdom Hearts 2+ shit
- Final Fantasy VII expanded universe shit
- Final Fantasy 13, 15
- The buttfucking Parasite Eve experienced with 3rd Birthday

All stems from that clique inside Square Enix getting unrestricted access to the company. If you have a fetish for this shit and consider it the height of jrpgs, I won't stop you. But yeah. :obviously:

I was talking before they throwed the original fans and their roots under the bus. Yes, most of what you said is right. But this game doesn't look exactly like a return to tradition.
Maybe, but that's why I said I'm willing to give this one a go by different personal.

I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

That said, Hiroshi Takai actually got quite a bit of credit in the bank with me as I very much enjoyed Last Remnant (PC version) and the Romancing Saga remake.

The huge issue is the battle system. It's a hard one to take, but that pill I've had to swallow for a while regardless. And I hate FF7 Remake's hybrid system so much that I'm willing to try something different regardless as long as its actually done well. Not even mentioning how shit Forspoken looks.

Of course, this is as *fabulously optimistic* as it gets. And I'd rather have a new Final Fantasy by Hiroyuki Itou all day, but it is what it is.
 

S.torch

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I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

Let's see, I read some interviews with Yoshida and other members of the team and they all say they're fans of Matsuno. But honestly I think Square is too fall gone. And I really not digging the aesthetics.
 
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I don't think we will ever see a return to "oldschool Final Fantasy". Really oldschool Final Fantasy, like the first 5 games, had a gameplay loop centered around exploration. This started fading away in 6 as the games gradually focusing more and more on constricting you to a linear story. By the time of FFIX, you're play a full blown movie game where you can't go off the rails and do your own thing until several hours into disc 3, at which point you realize that there is nothing to explore and that the combat sucks. FF10 gets rid of any pretense of exploration by cutting out the world map, and FF13 realized that hundreds of random encounters were detrimental to the movie game experience and allowed you to skip them.

So that leaves ATB combat and the aesthetics as the last defining features of the brand to cling to, which have also been eschewed. Gameplay wise, FF13 isn't much different from FF10, but it had futuristic aesthetics that FF didn't want. FF15 ditched the ATB combat so now you have a futuristic action game that is completely unrecgonizeable as a Final Fantasy game. To me, FF16 is in the same boat where it looks too much like Dragon Age or the Witcher or Game of Thrones with DMC button masher combat. It doesn't look FF at all.


I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

Let's see, I read some interviews with Yoshida and other members of the team and they all say they're fans of Matsuno. But honestly I think Square is too fall gone. And I really not digging the aesthetics.

Yoshida surely claims he likes Matsuno's stories but the writing of the last three FFXIV expansions says otherwise.
 

Duraframe300

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I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

Let's see, I read some interviews with Yoshida and other members of the team and they all say they're fans of Matsuno. But honestly I think Square is too fall gone. And I really not digging the aesthetics.

Yoshida surely claims he likes Matsuno's stories but the writing of the last three FFXIV expansions says otherwise.
This is made and written by people that left post-Heavensward. Yoshida is *just* the producer on this.

So, if anything that seems to be a good indication for XVI if XIV got worse without them.
 
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I do admit that I have to stretch myself in hope as I haven't actually played FFXIV and so can't accurately judge Realm Reborn/Heavensward myself, so especially Kazutoyo Maehiro is a leap of faith with me. I'm mainly hoping here that working with Matsuno on the Ivalice games over basically his entire time at SQE rubbed off on him. Which yeah. Strong dose of hopium.

Let's see, I read some interviews with Yoshida and other members of the team and they all say they're fans of Matsuno. But honestly I think Square is too fall gone. And I really not digging the aesthetics.

Yoshida surely claims he likes Matsuno's stories but the writing of the last three FFXIV expansions says otherwise.
Yoshida doesn't write them though. This is made and written by people that left post-Heavensward. Yoshida's *just* the producer on this.

My biggest fear is that Yoshida will use his producer power to veto things he doesn't like. We'll see but FFXIV has rather soured my opinion of him creatively.
 

mediocrepoet

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I don't think we will ever see a return to "oldschool Final Fantasy". Really oldschool Final Fantasy, like the first 5 games, had a gameplay loop centered around exploration. This started fading away in 6 as the games gradually focusing more and more on constricting you to a linear story. By the time of FFIX, you're play a full blown movie game where you can't go off the rails and do your own thing until several hours into disc 3, at which point you realize that there is nothing to explore and that the combat sucks. FF10 gets rid of any pretense of exploration by cutting out the world map, and FF13 realized that hundreds of random encounters were detrimental to the movie game experience and allowed you to skip them.

So that leaves ATB combat and the aesthetics as the last defining features of the brand to cling to, which have also been eschewed. Gameplay wise, FF13 isn't much different from FF10, but it had futuristic aesthetics that FF didn't want. FF15 ditched the ATB combat so now you have a futuristic action game that is completely unrecgonizeable as a Final Fantasy game. To me, FF16 is in the same boat where it looks too much like Dragon Age or the Witcher or Game of Thrones with DMC button masher combat. It doesn't look FF at all.

This is a really great synopsis of the single player Final Fantasy series and its phases.
 

Hassar

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Messages
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What’s really frustrating about all of this is that Black and brown people have always existed in medieval Europe. If the creative leadership had done more research or checked their biases, then they might have noticed that Black people have been living in Britain for two thousand years. Or that some Black Europeans were canonized in the Holy Roman Empire. Or realized that Iberia was under Islamic rule for approximately 500 years. Instead of a realistic imagining of medieval Europe, we got FFXVI instead.
Honestly, as a medieval and ancient history dork, this is a major frustration, too. Black people were not common but they were there along with Muslims, Jews, and a host of other ethnic communities. It’s one of the most frustrating things about debating racists.
 

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