X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Monk]

Thanks for mentioning Xenonauts.

Why are some so butthurt about this? You can still enjoy the original, right? Or do you think there are major improvements that can be done on the original?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I simply don't see why I or anybody else should get butthurt over a dead franchise.

Love ? It might seem a bit strong a word for a computer game, but I have real strong memories of the original X-Com back then, in 1993. I remember my friend, who had just bought it, pimping out the game to me, showing me some 25/30 minutes of gameplay. I couldn't believe it, managing a worldwide operation and yet being able to "zoom in" so close that you could see what was in any of your recruits' pocket. He made me a copy (shame I know), I went home, quickly leaned about PKunzip, unpacked the shit and played... To this day, I hardly remember a game that provoked so many jaw-dropping moments. Saving the Earth took me a long time but I don't regret a single minute of it. Damn, sometimes the research tree in this game was more exciting than some of the real deal I did at the university. And the macro-management, and the micro-management, and the tactical missions... so many good games rolled into an ultimate one.
I spent too much time playing the shit out of that game to think of it as "just another game". So yes, love it is. And the road from love to butthurt is a short one.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks for mentioning Xenonauts.

Why are some so butthurt about this? You can still enjoy the original, right? Or do you think there are major improvements that can be done on the original?

Are you implying that game development peaked in the 90s? Evolving concepts further is simply not possible (no way to go but down, sir!)?

Everything can be improved. That's pretty much a fact. While XCOM was a very well designed game without obvious flaws, the beauty of it was how well all the different design elements worked together (which is a rare thing these days). Individually, every element, from intercepting ships and base management to character system and combat, can be easily improved and expanded.

As for enjoying the original, I'm sure that many people do, but that's not the point. Nobody expected a 1:1 XCOM remake with better graphics. People expected an XCOM game that's at least as good but hopefully better than the 20 years old original (it's not too much to ask, is it?), and while we don't know enough to be absolutely certain, the initial info isn't very inspiring and suggests that the game might be shit.

 

[sea]

I am cautiously optimistic about this. On the one hand, Firaxis are competent developers and no strangers to making good strategy games for PC. On the other hand it might become a DLC whore-fest and the console direction might result in a vastly dumbed-down game compared to the originals. Not that you cannot make a deep, complex and interesting strategy game for the mass market, but the temptation is always there (and the demands by publishing and marketing) to keep things simple. Frankly, it's a lot easier to make simpler game mechanics than it is to teach them to players effectively.

Still, beggars can't be choosers I guess. I honestly have to wonder if the decision to make this game was a result of the backlash against the "other" XCOM game.

 

[Achilles]

They think that by removing all these little bits and pieces they're going to make the game more appealing to the masses. What they're actually doing is removing little bits of fun from the game, stuff that helps elevate a game from "competent" to "fucking great".

So yes, you're removing ammo clips so that gamers won't have to micromanage that. But you're also depriving your audience of the chance to run out of ammo when on a mission and devise some way to pick up the weapon of an alien or a fallen comrade while dodging enemy fire.

You're limiting the initial squad to four members, so that gamers won't have to manage many soldiers and get bored. But you're also denying them the chance to plan squads with specific objectives and load-outs, balancing between exploring the maps and having fire support.

You're making sure that the player will not get overwhelmed and slaughtered when exiting the Skyranger, so that they don't get frustrated. But you're also depriving them of the fucking awesome moment where most of your squad is killed in one turn and you turn tail and run from the mission thinking "oh shit, these motherfuckers mean business".

The Xenonauts creator already described it much better than I ever could: "But put them all together, it does seem rather like death by a thousand tiny cuts. And the big 4-soldier slash across the neck. What they're making may well be a good game, but it's not looking a lot like X-Com any more."

 

[Morgoth]

Couple new screenshots.

 

[EG]

The xenonauts guy sounds better and better. I initially kind of wrote that project off for some reason but it's looking and sounding very good.

You might have been thinking of Project Xenocide, http://www.projectxenocide.com/. A failed attempt at recreating and improving X-COM. I can't remember if Xenonauts were linked with them for a while or just mentioned on their forums for comparison.

 

[SkepticsClaw]

People expected an XCOM game that's at least as good but hopefully better than the 20 years old original (it's not too much to ask, is it?), and while we don't know enough to be absolutely certain, the initial info isn't very inspiring and suggests that the game might be shit.

Lol. It's no wonder you live in a state of rage. It seems to me that's something like being told that your young toddler nephew drew a picture of you and then being terribly angry and disappointed that it's not on a par with Michaelangelo. "But my face isn't purple! Why are all these squiggles there?!"

But no argument from me that mainstream games are simpler, less complicated, less ambitious, and less original than they could be. No argument that the trend is towards simplification and streamlining over expansion and addition of choices and elements. This is a society of consumers, devouring a sequence of products one after the other and casting aside the half-finished remains. God forbid you should provide a blocker to that with a bit of thought and challenge!

That said, I'm honestly as bad as anyone - I buy the modern games, and I enjoy them like the mental junk food that they are.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You're limiting the initial squad to four members...

... because every tard wants to play XCOM the way it was meant to be played - over the shoulder view! You can't do that with a large group.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

It seems to me that's something like being told that your young toddler nephew drew a picture of you and then being terribly angry and disappointed that it's not on a par with Michaelangelo. "But my face isn't purple! Why are all these squiggles there?!"

It's more like having your nephew drawing a way crappier picture at 25 than the one he did as a toddler.

 

[janjetina]

It's more like having your nephew drawing a way crappier picture at 25 than the one he did as a toddler.

While using the picture he drew as a toddler as a model.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

And that was indeed, on par with Michelangelo.

Damn, that nephew is really stupid.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Lol. It's no wonder you live in a state of rage.

You really think that drawing conclusions based on the announced design elements is raging?

If you dislike the word shit and think it was an emotional outburst (you are new to the Codex, aren't you?), replace it with a "dumbed down game with easy combat". Typing "shit" is faster.

Sure, it's turn-based, but it doesn't mean much if the difficulty is low. Civ 5 was way too easy which ruined the game and made your military conquests meaningless.

But no argument from me that mainstream games are simpler, less complicated, less ambitious, and less original than they could be.

Then what are we arguing about?

 

[Silellak]

the original's Time Units have been removed for a simple move+action

What.

no more Aimed/Snap/Auto shots

The.

there are classes

Fucking.

you only have one base.

Shit.

Squads of soldiers will consist of only 4 members

Apparently your squad can only have 4 members "to start with", but you can eventually unlock more:
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=3020646&postcount=482

It's still fucking dumb, though. Who the fuck would play X-Com and think "You know what this needs? A 4 person squad limit."

 

[Syril]

New xcom that i cna play on my console? GUD GUUUUUUUUUUUUD

 

[Drakron]

Apparently your squad can only have 4 members "to start with", but you can eventually unlock more.

Well I need to read more about it, if its tied with the transport then I can understand but if its some kind of completely arbitrary "unlock" then its just BS.

 

[Syril]

I don't mind, i never used more than 3 or 4 guys anyway, i was too scared to send more so they don't have to die.

 

[Spectacle]

With only 4 soldiers to start it means the game can't be very deadly, which means it won't be anywhere near as tense as the original.

 

[Marobug]

Well if you read the thread you WOULD know they are NOT in. If you can't bother to pay attention no one should have to read your dumb opinion. All we really need of the rules is the exact stats for weapons to judge the combat system, and those are really immaterial.

What's up with the recent invasion of retarded newfags ?

And yes we would like to hear what you have to say about those "things I didn't read that lay out the core of the rule system".

Yeah and I must eat shit to validate my opinion about eating shit, right?
Those statements and preliminary screenshots say nothing about how the game will be, see no evil hear no evil. You need to put your hand in fire to know it burns and that it is fire, right? Perfect logic for everything in life.

Totally retarded comparisons. You know fire burns because either your parents told you it does or because you burned yourself at some point in your life. You know shit isn't meant to be eaten because well it stinks, which is your brain's way of saying "don't eat this".

And I never said the screenshots or the info we have until now says nothing about the game. I just think they are not enough for someone to state like it's a proven fact that this game is going to suck balls when the game isn't even finished and the info we have is still very little.
But who gives a shit anyway, this game was always going to receive it's fair share of hate for many different reasons and regardless of the quality of the final product. As an example the day it was announced some retard in here was already saying the AI, sfx, graphics etc were going to be worst than the original when the only info we had was a piece of concept art.
I don't think there's anything more to add, proceed with the hate.

 

[Black]

If you dislike the word shit and think it was an emotional outburst (you are new to the Codex, aren't you?), replace it with a "dumbed down game with easy combat". Typing "shit" is faster.

And now you *understand*.

 

[Drakron]

With only 4 soldiers to start it means the game can't be very deadly, which means it won't be anywhere near as tense as the original.

Depends, the Small Scout only had one alien and pretty much earlier UFOs did not had very large crew complements, the worst was the Terror Missions.

I dont think it would be less deadly are before, if you had a Terror Mission at the start you would be better forget about it since you really could not win and we just recovered small UFOs at start because anything bigger would simply destroy your squad ... of course there were touch-and-go were people did limited engagements to capture or kill a alien and then lift off, if anything starting with just 4 means you be less inclined to risk the squad as having 10 troopers usually lead to players being careless and taking on missions they really could not win.

A lot depends on how they will implement missions, even 10 aliens vs 4 humans is feasible as long you dont fight all 10 of then at once.

 

[Monk]

Are you implying that game development peaked in the 90s? Evolving concepts further is simply not possible (no way to go but down, sir!)?

Everything can be improved. That's pretty much a fact. While XCOM was a very well designed game without obvious flaws, the beauty of it was how well all the different design elements worked together (which is a rare thing these days). Individually, every element, from intercepting ships and base management to character system and combat, can be easily improved and expanded.

As for enjoying the original, I'm sure that many people do, but that's not the point. Nobody expected a 1:1 XCOM remake with better graphics. People expected an XCOM game that's at least as good but hopefully better than the 20 years old original (it's not too much to ask, is it?), and while we don't know enough to be absolutely certain, the initial info isn't very inspiring and suggests that the game might be shit.

I'm not implying that. I just want to know what major improvements can be made to the original besides the graphics (which some might not consider necessary).

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not implying that. I just want to know what major improvements can be made to the original besides the graphics (which some might not consider necessary).

Like I said, XCOM's strength was how well different elements worked together, not the quality of each individual element. Was XCOM combat as good as, say, JA2 or even Silent Storm? No. That's one (tactical options, improved enemy AI, improved and better balanced weapon system, improved character system, etc). I'm not saying it has to be as good as JA2, but it can (and should) be easily improved. It would be nice to have damage types to give you a reason to carry back up weapons/different ammo.

Was the intercept system anything more than a quick mini-game? No. That's two (adding tactical options and such). Research and manufacture would benefit from some love, a bit of complexity, and balance (mass producing and selling weapons without any cost (other than paying engineers) worked against the game's "you need the funding to operate" concept. Also, it would be nice to be able to customize your interceptors and all other equipment (similar to what Firaxis did in Alpha Centauri). Etc.

Scientists were nothing but research speed modifiers in the original game. This too can be improved. I liked the (poorly-implemented) idea in UFO games to send scientists and engineers on missions to gain research bonuses.Since XCOM was always more than kill the aliens, it would make sense to include scientists (thus weakening the team and risking potentially precious scientists) to support the team (help them operate some machinery? computers? control system? use complex scientist-only XCOM devices to mind control aliens? etc).

 

[Vault Dweller]

THIS! IS! XCOM!!!

more screens here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458283

 

[Morgoth]

Looks fucking awesome, thanks for posting the link.

I knew you'd stalk infos for your secret new favorite game, VD.