First person is not more immersive than Third person view

[Norfleet]

"Immersive" is one of those shit buzzwords that lacks any objective meaning. It's just one of those things people throw around because they're not willing to just straight up say whether or not something is shit. If you ever have to stop and think about whether or not something is "immersive", IT ISN'T.

So you know what the most immersive game is? Some scuba simulator, because IT LITERALLY CANNOT GET MORE IMMERSIVE THAN BEING LITERALLY IMMERSED.

 

[tritosine2k]

Fo4 third button switch between views is doing it right, otherwise if you have unmatched fov eg IRL perspective is unmatched by screen perspective then third person is better and supports a smaller but more realistic fov and visible character is a better sense of scale than a "prop" weapon .
Carmack did a disservice to fps genre by unlocking >70fov and explaining fuck all about perspective distortion:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Rendering/PostProcessEffects/PaniniProjection/index.html

 

[octavius]

"Immersive" is one of those shit buzzwords that lacks any objective meaning. It's just one of those things people throw around because they're not willing to just straight up say whether or not something is shit. If you ever have to stop and think about whether or not something is "immersive", IT ISN'T.

Uh no. Immersive (to me at least) means the feeling of "being the game character" instead of being the guy who controls a character on screen (who partly blocks the screen). Not a big problem if the game is mostly about fighting, but in stealth games, where your character really should have limited vision and rely partly on hearing to get his bearing, it's a deal breaker (or should I say immersion breaker?).

To me it's somewhat analogous the difference between single character and party CRPGs. In a single character game I want to role play my character, while in a party game I'm more like a football coach on the sideline directing my squad of players, who in old games at least is hardly more than a bunch of stats.

Incidentally I'm convinced third person appeals more to the selfie generation.

 

[Funposter]

"Immersive" is one of those shit buzzwords that lacks any objective meaning. It's just one of those things people throw around because they're not willing to just straight up say whether or not something is shit. If you ever have to stop and think about whether or not something is "immersive", IT ISN'T.

So you know what the most immersive game is? Some scuba simulator, because IT LITERALLY CANNOT GET MORE IMMERSIVE THAN BEING LITERALLY IMMERSED.

"Immersion" as applied to video games has a pretty well accepted meaning, similar to the idea of "suspension of disbelief" in cinema or theatre. In this case, most people would agree that "immersion" is the state of empathizing so deeply with your character and their in-game state that you are able to ignore inherent "game-y" aspects, such as the rules and mechanics of the game, but also the literal mechanical inputs required to make the game work and progress. Obviously first person perspective works slightly better at achieving this, because you are not controlling a camera behind someone else. You are seeing the world through the eyes of your character, effectively becoming them. There is now one less barrier between your brain interpreting the virtual world as the real thing.

edit: consider a VR game played not through the eyes of the character, but instead controlling the camera behind them as in a third person game. It would be ridiculous, obviously.

 

[Skdursh]

FPP is more immersive, period.

Third-Person perspective sucks ass and doesn’t give you the feels, like at all.

Why do you hate Gothic so much?

Alpha Gothic nerds know about the FPP console commands.

 

[Nano]

It depends on the game. In RPGs specifically (especially pure RPGs, i.e. not hybrids), it's not about feeling like I'm in the world. I don't see it as "playing as myself", it's no different from looking at a tabletop game as far as I'm concerned. Especially when I'm replaying the game and doing a playthrough with an evil MC, I don't want to pretend that character is me.

Most immersive games are Bloodlines

Bloodlines switches to a third-person camera during melee combat.

 

[Metronome]

I like how your argument for "immersion" is "watching your doll do shit." That's the opposite of immersion dude, immersion is about feeling like it's you, being there, in that world. Watching a doll do things is more about being "cinematic" or whatever. There's subjective arguments for both being more enjoyable, though as a PC mouse and keyboard guy, who loves immersion, first-person is about a thousand times better.

That's telling though. Kids who actually play with dolls can be immersed in the activity. We're sapient creatures, our minds can fill in the blanks. It's like how you understand what goes on when you look in a mirror. What it takes to get you immersed in something then seems pretty subjective itself.

You can't "get immersed wrong" after all. Immersion is the responsibility of the developer to deliver, not the player to get right. Issues like vision extending beyond what the character sees is more of an issue of skill. Unless you're playing an ARPG skill is in the hands of the character more than the player. Difficulty through perception is similar to difficulty through reflexes.

 

[Harthwain]

Is beyond ironic that there are people trying to defend this saying that is more "inmersive" when a huge part of a "inmersion" in RPG is watching your character interact with the world.

Nothing ironic about it. FPP is immersive in the sense that you feel being physically there. Personally I don't find anything immersive in "watching your character interact with the world" from 3rd person perspective.

 

[ItsChon]

Both are shit, isometric is the only way to go. Anyone that says otherwise can get fucked.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

First person is more immersive and it is also a characteristic derived from the old school PC gaming.

Third person is a more recent thing, derived from the difficulty to play a fp with the console controls. Now third person is mainly justified to sell to the new brain damaged generations priced additional costumes & accessories to let them think they are cool. To the point that for many youngers RPG=the possibility to personalize the aspect of their character.

I applaud developers that have the balls to produce a fp in this time and age. (Such as Resident Evil 7 for example).

 

[Nano]

I applaud developers that have the balls to produce a fp in this time and age.

Literally all of them? FP is in vogue right now.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I applaud developers that have the balls to produce a fp in this time and age.

Literally all of them? FP is in vogue right now.

Are you sure?

 

[tritosine2k]

"Immersion" as applied to video games has a pretty well accepted meaning, similar to the idea of "suspension of disbelief" in cinema or theatre. In this case, most people would agree that "immersion" is the state of empathizing so deeply with your character and their in-game state that you are able to ignore inherent "game-y" aspects, such as the rules and mechanics of the game, but also the literal mechanical inputs required to make the game work and progress. Obviously first person perspective works slightly better at achieving this, because you are not controlling a camera behind someone else. You are seeing the world through the eyes of your character, effectively becoming them. There is now one less barrier between your brain interpreting the virtual world as the real thing.

edit: consider a VR game played not through the eyes of the character, but instead controlling the camera behind them as in a third person game. It would be ridiculous, obviously.

Wrong on all counts,
Immersive is simulator terminology since 90's ( it's not about muh feelz in front of a monitor) VR kool kids try to hijack the term ever since
and let me tell you, arguing about "immersion" in 2020 while sitting in front of an LCD monitor or TV is no less ridiculous than doing the same in 90's with 14-17" or arcade screens.
With >100" projection set up you might be onto something but that's still a trade off between enough distance for relaxed view vs. FOV.



Third person in VR is very much a thing because relaxed view is nowhere solved in VR and the closer the distances the more of a problem.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

What is immersive depends to personal taste. There are some games that immersed me a lot and they don't share a common visual of gameplay.

For sure being a pair of floating hands with the eye suck on my chest is not immersive for me mostly because 99% of first person games are prospectively wrong.

The human eye don't have a tunnel vision like it is in the first person in gaming.

Humans are aware of their surroundings they have a sense of location and space. ((for example you are prefectly aware how to move in a complicated area full of clutter looking in front of you)) In gaming first person this lacks.

To emulate first person of gaming in real life all you have to do is take a box open the bottom and look inside of it.

The true first person would be VR but is not remotely close to be controlled accurately.

Crippled movement and limitation.

Melee that will always sucks

Third person allow:

Being aware of your surrounding.

Being better in crontrol of your character.

Being able to see your character for some people like me create a disconnection between me and my character this helps me to imagine I AM NOT MY CHARACTER instead i am ROLEPLAYING a character i designed. This is a core feature for me in a rpg and is not tied to third person in general but even in isometric view as being a pen and paper player of many games is always bad when someone is recreating himself as character because that is not roleplaying.

This is pretty much why i favour rpg that are not in first person not to mention the dozen of gameplay limitation derived by doing a game first person only. ((unless is a game like Wizardry. That is turn based and works in a different manner but even there you are far way limited than being for example an isometric turn based))

Said that i don't think third person is more immersive or first person is more immersive.

What is immersive is tied to personal preference who claim one visual is more immersive than another is wrong by principle.

I want also to add this:

There is nothing bad in wanting to see your character when you explore the fictional world and see how cool he or she looks. Who bashed the people that have this preference by pure FPP fanboysm are idiots.
Sorry i had to write this.

 

[Norfleet]

Nothing ironic about it. FPP is immersive in the sense that you feel being physically there. Personally I don't find anything immersive in "watching your character interact with the world" from 3rd person perspective.

Well, this perspective is becoming all the more common as military commanders are increasingly directing people from overhead aerial and satellite imagery.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

What annoys me more than tunnel vision is the difficulty to see what is in front of my character, when I am looking at it from behind the character shoulders: "Can you please step aside to let me see too? Pretty please?"

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Always better than look trough a box and being a chest with eyes on your nipples

 

[Farewell into the night]

Any perspective can be fun and immersive. It just needs to be well developed.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Any perspective can be fun and immersive. It just needs to be well developed.

Exactly that is my point.
First person is very outdated today as you can chose to make the game play like a FPS or turn base like Wizardry but is a visual that have many gameplay flaws in movements and mechanics.
This is why i insist the true best First Person will happen when we finally get to control our character better in VR because that will open up at many gameplay elements that with the regular first person on FLAT SCREEN is not possible.
To me First Person is a visual that is simply outdated and needs to evolve thing is the only natural evolution of it is VR.

 

[Harthwain]

Nothing ironic about it. FPP is immersive in the sense that you feel being physically there. Personally I don't find anything immersive in "watching your character interact with the world" from 3rd person perspective.

Well, this perspective is becoming all the more common as military commanders are increasingly directing people from overhead aerial and satellite imagery.

I am not sure what do you mean.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

I used to enjoy a lot of first person games when i was younger but it was also the dawn of the 3d era.
Titles like Golden eye,Turok,Quake i played them till the nausea.
I stopped to play them because as i grown up i lost the appeal for that prospective it makes me feel limited like forced to follow a straight line.
This because in the time Third person or even Isometric games offered a wide variety of gameplay.

I don't get the love for first person RPG's as for me being able to see my character is an integral part to make me feel i am roleplaying a character. Is different tho when i play third person game or isometric game as well.
I don't need for me to being in the game. Because the moment i will do ME in a roleplay game it will be the moment i am not roleplaying a character.

And i am interested on the ROLEPLAY part of RPGS but maybe i am just weird.

 

[thesheeep]

Who is more immersed by what is subjective.

So, no, first person is not more immersive than third person. At least not in the sense that there would be an inherently stronger "immersion factor" that would apply to every player.
But more people are more immersed by first person perspective, no doubt about it. Probably because that perspective is how we humans go about in our ways. It is closer to our lives and therefore more relatable?

 

[Funposter]

Immersive is simulator terminology since 90's

Where does this sentence lead us? Could it be to a first person game? Let's find out!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss

Wow!

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Who is more immersed by what is subjective.

So, no, first person is not more immersive than third person. At least not in the sense that there would be an inherently stronger "immersion factor" that would apply to every player.
But more people are more immersed by first person perspective, no doubt about it. Probably because that perspective is how we humans go about in our ways. It is closer to our lives and therefore more relatable?

That is understandable however the first person presented on videogames is not remotely close or realistic at our vision. Like i said you take every game that feature first person and you end with the same problems all over agaim.

Eyes in your chest because apparently you have to show your hands all the time for people to feel Immersed. ((in rl you are not creeping around with the hands in front of your face like you are one of the characters of looney toons attempting to get sneaky.))

Severe limitation in movements and lack of perception ((some may argue this is false even if this is why if many ferst person game you have usually an arrow that tells you where you get shot from or the direction the grenade is nearby you ready to explode))

Severe restriction in gameplay ((Melee fighting and dodging will always suck in first person games because again you lack a sense of space perception being confined in a tunnel vision))

I don't claim first person is more or less immersive. I claim who claims this is more immersive than that is an idiot. As what is immersive is totally subjective.

My core problems with first person games is just i can't stand to play something that is defined close to the real vision that is perspectively total wrong.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Who cares about which is more immersive ?

First person is great for blobbers, third person isometric view for everything else.

Do i care about characters haircut or pants colors ? Nope.