First person is not more immersive than Third person view

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Problem is some idiot devs started to claim officially first person is more immersive. ((justify their conversion of a pen and paper game in to a dull FPS))

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 i am looking at you

 

[smaug]

Both are shit, isometric is the only way to go. Anyone that says otherwise can get fucked.

And what are these immersive qualities of isometric?

 

[DalekFlay]

That's telling though. Kids who actually play with dolls can be immersed in the activity. We're sapient creatures, our minds can fill in the blanks. It's like how you understand what goes on when you look in a mirror. What it takes to get you immersed in something then seems pretty subjective itself.

You can't "get immersed wrong" after all. Immersion is the responsibility of the developer to deliver, not the player to get right. Issues like vision extending beyond what the character sees is more of an issue of skill. Unless you're playing an ARPG skill is in the hands of the character more than the player. Difficulty through perception is similar to difficulty through reflexes.

We're kind of back to "immersion" being a relative term I guess. You can get "immersed" in a movie that has zero interaction, in a sense. Still when I play The Witcher 3 or similar games, I feel like I'm watching Geralt's adventure. I can be immersed in the story, but I don't really feel like it's me, there, doing the thing. In a first-person game I'm more likely to feel like that, which is a big reason games like Skyrim work better than they should considering their quality. They make you feel a little bit like you're there, in that place. Again though I'm not saying which is better, and obviously some games are less like this than others, but it's just a general feeling I have.

Honestly though I'm 90% sure I prefer first person because it's a lot better with keyboard and mouse control (IMO).

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

And that is prefectly fine the whole argument is that Immersion is subjective. What is immersive for you could be not immersive for me and viceversa.

 

[tritosine2k]

Where does this sentence lead us? Could it be to a first person game? Let's find out!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss

Wow!

Not really:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flight+simulation+immersive&channel=new&espv=1&source=lnt&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:12/26/1988,cd_max:1/11/2000&tbm=

FP games were always quixotic because excessive demand for fov, close up gfx, LOD, etc.

Not to mention it takes gamebryo of them all to have corpses and debris that stay put, because others just cull whatever for a few more frames within those garbage shooter engines.

 

[Harthwain]

Problem is some idiot devs started to claim officially first person is more immersive. ((justify their conversion of a pen and paper game in to a dull FPS))

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 i am looking at you

Mike Pondsmith, the guy responsible for the creation of Cyberpunk 2020, said that he "thoroughly supports the first person perspective": link.

 

[taxalot]

I find that both have strength and weakness.

First person, of course, duh, you see what you would see.
But you lack a few things : body awareness, more info about your body inside its environment. I find it hard to describe, but I do believe that third person gives you also information that you would know and see at all time if you truly were there.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Problem is some idiot devs started to claim officially first person is more immersive. ((justify their conversion of a pen and paper game in to a dull FPS))

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 i am looking at you

Mike Pondsmith, the guy responsible for the creation of Cyberpunk 2020, said that he "thoroughly supports the first person perspective": link.

Yeah sadly there is also that. Is a shame that the pen and paper community are not getting this crap.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Want immersion? Read a book.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Third person is ok for platformers I suppose. But still, maybe 2D is even better.

 

[Sigourn]

First person is more immersive than third person, which doesn't mean a first person game will inherently be more immersive than third person.
That's because atmosphere, graphics, degrees of interaction, all of those contribute to immersion. The Witcher 1 is one of the most immersive RPGs I've ever played, and I played it in 3rd person isometric view.

If we define "immersion" as forgetting we are in a game, few gameplay-related elements are more immersion breaking to me that constantly telling my dudes where I want them to be going (Baldur's Gate, Fallout; even The Witcher), as opposed of myself going where I want to go (Morrowind, New Vegas). Other gameplay-related elements that break my immersion are:

• Being unable to do some very basic shit I should be able to: obvious quest solutions which aren't present in a game; being unable to cross basic fences like you can't in The Witcher.
• Annoying inventories and interfaces which remind me some retard designed the game as opposed to simply poofing into existence.

Non-gameplay related elements that break my immersion:

• Long loading screens.
• Music abruptly ending.
• Technical issues.

That said, I have felt immersed in Fallout and The Witcher, but rarely in Baldur's Gate. That's because the former two are masterpieces of their own, while Baldur's Gate is a mediocre videogame.

 

[Silly Germans]

First person allows better combination of sound and vision. Turning your head will change the perception of sound which works best with first person. I don't see how this can be done properly in third person
without ending up with awkward controls.

Thief 1/2 use this par excellence and it adds immensely to the immersion and gameplay.

 

[Longshanks]

FPP is not inherently more immersive except in the most simplistic sense: "it is as though I'm looking through the character's eyes". There's nothing wrong with the argument but it's incomplete. It works fine for viewing things, but is limited for interacting with an environment or other characters. It may be the best view for making you feel as if you are "in the world" but that's only the most simplistic type of immersion. I'm not convinced FFP view conveys this feeling all that strongly anyway, there is still so much missing from the experience.

Another type of immersion which we feel when watching a movie or reading a book, as well as gaming, is to put ourselves in the shoes of characters without actually being them. I don't find FPP in movies to be more immersive, probably the opposite, though in the end it comes down to how well the movie draws you in, regardless of the view. Same goes for games really. Thief and SS2 are some of the most immersive games I've played, but games like Max Payne, Fallout, PST or RDR2 are also right up there as is VtmB which I played in both 3rd and first person.

For me non-FPP is more natural for RPGs. The player and the character are separate. For action RPGs where the two are intermingled then FPP makes more sense. As far as immersion goes, I have no real preference.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

It just depends on the type of experience the game wants to be.

FPP is more immersive and allows for better interaction with single objects and the player to notice details more easily
TPP allows for better and more advanced controls.

Honestly for ARPG's imho the best approach is Bethesda's, include both first and third person.

Both are shit, isometric is the only way to go. Anyone that says otherwise can get fucked.

Trying way to hard kid.

 

[DalekFlay]

TPP allows for better and more advanced controls.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

TPP allows for better and more advanced controls.

All the best hack 'n' slashes and 3D platformers are in TPP. That alone should tell you.

 

[Falksi]

I get immersed by whatever the game throws at me to immerse me funnily enough. Graphics, gameplay, audio etc They're all different pieces of the puzzle which stimulate me in some way, and the more of them do more stuff better the more immersed I get.

What perspective I'm viewing that from makes little difference. Generally I've found I enjoy 3rd Person Perspective games more than FPP, but that's down to the games not the view.

 

[Immortal]

And that is prefectly fine the whole argument is that Immersion is subjective. What is immersive for you could be not immersive for me and viceversa.

I think you are just confusing your argument more and more each post - and misunderstanding what people mean by "Immersion".

 

[nyjsu]

Perspective has nothing to do with immersion.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

TPP allows for better and more advanced controls.

I should say the opposite, ... or maybe that FPP needs more advanced controls than TPP

TPP allows for better and more advanced controls.

All the best hack 'n' slashes and 3D platformers are in TPP. That alone should tell you.

But this is a specific genre that is best suited for TPP (and basically all the games that originates from the classic 2D games), it doesn't mean that these have best controls in general. Think for example the advanced way to interact with the environment that the Frictional have implemented in their FPP games.

 

[Immortal]

Perspective has nothing to do with immersion.

Oh Cool, I'm going to make a 40 hour long RPG but stick the camera in the corner of the world behind a mountain. Have fun.

What a retarded statement.
Perspective is huge.. It gives scale and context to everything around you.
A game can make or break on camera.

Whatever place you crawled into here from, go back.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Perspective has nothing to do with immersion.

But it helps...

 

[Immortal]

Perspective has nothing to do with immersion.

But it helps...

If perspective helps with Immersion, then it has something to do with it.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I should say the opposite, ... or maybe that FPP needs more advanced controls than TP

You can't have something that plays like Ninja Gaiden on FPP, it's simply impossible.

But this is a specific genre that is best suited for TPP (and basically all the games that originates from the classic 2D games), it doesn't mean that these have best controls in general. Think for example the advanced way to interact with the environment that the Frictional have implemented in their FPP games.

I said has much in my first post:

FPP is more immersive and allows for better interaction with single objects and the player to notice details more easily.

Maybe I should I've phrased it better. Something like: "TPP allows for more complex and precise inputs".

 

[Nifft Batuff]

You can't have something that plays like Ninja Gaiden on FPP, it's simply impossible.

But you cannot have something that plays like games that need complex and precise way to interact with the environment, like Amnesia and Soma, in TPP. Even in simple shooters (and also hack and slashes, that are particularly apt to be played in TPP) you need some technical gimmick such as auto-aim or target locks.

Furthermore, usually TPP games can be played easily with simple controllers, while FPP not. This means that FPP inherently allow more complex interactions than TPP.