Gamepad vs Mouse & Keyboard Discussion

[Communist]

Seriously though, very precise, but not quite as fast as a regular mouse. So great for most shit but FPS games.

This is some kind of nonsense.
She needs my cock in her hands.
Why does she need this thing? Does she satisfy her better? I feel sexually depressed.

 

[DemonKing]

I don't mind controllers for 3rd person action games on console.

FPS, strategy etc though I need my mouse/keyboard on PC Master Race.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I simply won't use a controller for gaming. I have found them useful for recording animation paths in realtime, in 3d animation software.

IIRC... Didn't Microsoft have to stop cross platform Halo multiplayer because M&Kbd players would always mop the floor with controller players?

 

[Raskens]

I simply won't use a controller for gaming. I have found them useful for recording animation paths in realtime, in 3d animation software.

IIRC... Didn't Microsoft have to stop cross platform Halo multiplayer because M&Kbd players would always mop the floor with controller players?

Just played a match and it's not true. Also, I haven't seen m&kbd players mop the floor with controller players. They might be better, but not so much that it's very noticeable.

 

[gurugeorge]

To my mind, the mouse and keyboard "came of age" with the implementation in Half Life (which had clearly taken some inspiration from the Looking Glass games setups of UU and SS1, which weren't exactly WASD but pioneered the idea of getting away from the arrow keys to move).

After HL, WASD and mouselook became absolutely standard, whereas before developers had still been doing their own things with control systems.

As to gamepads, I'm sure they have their charms for people who grew up with part console games and part PC games, but I never, ever had a console in my life, so I just never got any muscle memory for gamepads and controllers. And I don't intend to learn the use of the obnoxious gadgets now. To me, consoles, and the requirement to design and build for their market, have been nothing but a curse on PC games. Ever since I fired up Deus Ex: Infinity War and saw what horror designing the game for consoles had wrought with Deux Ex, I have loathed consoles and their entire grisly entourage of awful game design, with an absolute passion.

 

[Average Manatee]

I simply won't use a controller for gaming. I have found them useful for recording animation paths in realtime, in 3d animation software.

IIRC... Didn't Microsoft have to stop cross platform Halo multiplayer because M&Kbd players would always mop the floor with controller players?

Just played a match and it's not true. Also, I haven't seen m&kbd players mop the floor with controller players. They might be better, but not so much that it's very noticeable.

Every FPS nowadays has massive amounts of aim assist applied when you plug in a controller. That quote was from before all devs figured out that FPS on console could only succeed if controllers were coddled like babies. Console FPS is designed so that you aim in the general direction and just shots to win. Even better if you just shake your aim back and forth over someone.

 

[HansDampf]

I play 2D platformers and most third-person action games with a controller, everything else with KB. But that's mostly because I grew up with the SNES and I'm used to playing 2D games with a controller. The main advantages of a controller are analog movement and the analog shoulder buttons. If those aren't used in a game, it's just a matter of preference. Many speedrunners even play games like Hollow Knight or Celeste with a keyboard, so it can't be that bad. There also aren't many games that benefit from both analog controls and the precision of a mouse.

 

[Twiglard]

I'd buy a controller in no time if only it had a throttle.

 

[Bad Sector]

I never, ever had a console in my life, so I just never got any muscle memory for gamepads and controllers.

FWIW while i had some console at ancient times (Atari and NES), i never developed muscle memory in them as sadly they both broke down very early and never really had any games on them aside from whatever came by default. I was always playing games with the keyboard on PC during the 90s - as i wrote in another post i was even playing FPS games with just the keyboard up until around 2003 or so when i got a new PC and the GPU came with Will Rock that didn't have any key bindings for turning, so i was forced to use the mouse. However around the same time i also bought this gravis gamepad and then some PS1-styled gamepad, though i used both for 2D games (in fact i wrote some small platformer that could be played with two gamepads at the same time and i played it with a friend whenever he came to visit). Also friends of mine at the 90s did use joysticks for some games, so i got to use them a bit but i never found them enjoyable (but then again i wasn't into flying sims at the time - might be interesting to buy one nowadays for something like Overload though, but i think it is perfectly playable with the mouse too). When it comes to using a gamepad for 3D games it is only in recent years i got used to them when i bought an Xbox 360 controller around 2015.

So for me at least controllers were always a thing on PC (even when i didn't have on my own), not something i saw "from the other side". If anything it is only since the last decade with Reddit, etc, that i noticed people having this sort of dichotomy.

 

[gurugeorge]

I simply won't use a controller for gaming. I have found them useful for recording animation paths in realtime, in 3d animation software.

IIRC... Didn't Microsoft have to stop cross platform Halo multiplayer because M&Kbd players would always mop the floor with controller players?

Just played a match and it's not true. Also, I haven't seen m&kbd players mop the floor with controller players. They might be better, but not so much that it's very noticeable.

Every FPS nowadays has massive amounts of aim assist applied when you plug in a controller. That quote was from before all devs figured out that FPS on console could only succeed if controllers were coddled like babies. Console FPS is designed so that you aim in the general direction and just shots to win. Even better if you just shake your aim back and forth over someone.

And they call it a "controller" lol.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Anything that involves moving a cursor, aiming or even just controlling a camera efficiently is better with mouse and keyboard.

Gamepads are good for games with a lot of focus on timed input, like platformers and fighting games.

 

[Morenatsu.]

People playing with keyboards are just mad that they got wrecked playing a fps on a console. Controllers>>>m&k. That Xbox 360 controller is a fine controller btw. Just feels so natural.

Ok betfag. Play UT against us and see how that goes.

 

[Citizen]

Ok betfag. Play UT against us and see how that goes.

You underestimate the amount of aimbot controllers get in most FPSes, in some games it's so absurd controller players are actually massacring k&m ones because they have insane advantage on long distances due to perfect target tracking their aimassist gives them

Controller players shouldn't play in k&m lobbies #inputDeviceSegregation

 

[Morenatsu.]

Ok betfag. Play UT against us and see how that goes.

You underestimate the amount of aimbot controllers get in most FPSes, in some games it's so absurd controller players are actually massacring k&m ones because they have insane advantage on long distances due to perfect target tracking their aimassist gives them

Controller players shouldn't play in k&m lobbies #inputDeviceSegregation

Autoaim? In my UT?

 

[Herzog]

I like using gamepads. I find them comfortable and relaxing. Nothing better than playing PSX and PS2 classics with my shitty Chinese Dualshock knock-off. There is an inverse relationship between the regular use of gamepads and the likelyhood of virginity — as opposed to keyboard and mouse, where the relationship is of opposite nature. More gamepad use? Lower virginity rate, probably going to turn out OK eventually. Heavily K&M? Chances are high that you're doomed to a life of celibacy, you know, the My main is on Eredar kind. With that said competitive shooters in the truest sense mean shooters with keyboard and mouse. Keyboard and mouse are indispensable to anything that involves serious strategy and the use of dense UI's. But know that the price is forfeiting all carnal pleasures...

 

[Morenatsu.]

I like using gamepads. I find them comfortable and relaxing. Nothing better than playing PSX and PS2 classics with my shitty Chinese Dualshock knock-off. There is an inverse relationship between the regularity of use of gamepads and the likelyhood of virginity — as opposed to keyboard and mouse, where the relationship is of opposite nature. More gamepad use? Lower virginity rate, probably going to turn out OK eventually. Heavily K&M? Chances are high that you're doomed to life of celibacy, you know, the My main is Eredar kind. With that said competitive shooters in the truest sense mean shooters with keyboard and mouse. Keyboard and mouse are indispensable to anything that involves serious strategy and the use of dense UI's. But know that the price is forfeiting all carnal pleasures...

better to be a virgin than fuck retards like you who joined on sunday

 

[JarlFrank]

I used a controller two times in my life.

Once was back in 2009, my last year of high school. I was around 20 at the time and had never used a controller before. We had a Gamecube in the class's recreation room and some people would play some console FPS on there occasionally. I hopped into a match with them and even just moving my character around was a fucking pain. Terrible.

The second time was when I visited Gamescom with Bubbles in... 2016 I think? We had a bit of downtime between interviews and found two consoles where you could play the console version of Risen 3. Neither of us had much experience with controllers and we both found it incredibly clunky and uncomfortable to play.

Those were the only two times in my life I ever used controllers. Those things feel incredibly clunky and uncomfortable to use compared to the good old mouse and keyboard which I have been using since I was 3 years old. I even play games like Dark Souls and emulated Super Mario with M&KB (or KB only in case of platformers) and it feels perfectly fine.

Funnily enough, I don't have any issues at all when switching to other input devices like steering wheels for driving games or joysticks for flight sims/space games. Those feel perfectly useable and natural, no clunkiness whatsoever, even though I rarely use joysticks (I do use steering wheels IRL a lot cause my car is my main method of transport).
Controllers, on the other hand, feel very clunky and uncomfortable to me and I don't feel the desire to ever use them again. There's nothing they do that M&KB can't do better, and for some special types of games like driving and flying games, specialized devices like steering wheels and joysticks are infinitely superior to either M&KB or controllers.

I think my main issue is how the different input devices are used.
Mouse: you use your wrist for movement, you can rest your wrist on a gel mousepad, you use index and middle fingers for buttons. Comfy.
Keyboard: you rest your wrist on a gel pad in front of the keyboard, and can move your hand from key to key. Your hand rests comfortably while all your fingers can use 40+ buttons. Highly versatile and also comfortable.
Joystick: your hand is positioned on the stick and you perform movement by moving your wrist. You use your thumb and index finger for buttons. Comfortable and intuitive.
Steering wheel: both hands rest on the wheel. You move by turning the wheel. Movement is done with foot pedals. It's like driving a car. Hands always rest in a comfortable position on the wheel.
Controller: you hold this small thing in both hands, having both hands close together and holding the controller in the air, rather than resting your hands on a device that's standing solidly on your desk. You don't use your wrists at all, it's fingers only, and you can't even use all your fingers unlike with a keyboard.

A controller is the least comfortable and least versatile input device of them all.

 

[Morenatsu.]

You're supposed to use your hands, not your feet.

 

[JarlFrank]

You're supposed to use your hands, not your feet.

Yes. My hands which are attached to wrists. The existence of wrists means mouse and keyboard is way more comfortable and versatile than a controller I need to hold in my hands, and where I only use my fingers for inputs.

Controllers are the worst input device of them all.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

keyboard, no mouse is the optimal choice for everything but shooters
keyboard is just a controller for people with above room temperature IQs

 

[Herzog]

better to be a virgin than fuck retards like you who joined on sunday

I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[aweigh]

the recent patch for Pathfinder: Kingmaker added controller gamepad support scheme and I tried it out of curiosity, gotta say those Crazy Russians really did it. They fucking implemented the best ever RTwP controller scheme ever devised, the game plays very well with a controller in RTwP mode, and shines in Turn-Based mode with the controller.

Amusing that the russians did it in a simple patch and did it so well on their first try, meanwhile Obsidian's PoE games play abysmally on console, with PoE 1 being almost unplayable since it doesn't have a TB mode.

 

[Bad Sector]

Those were the only two times in my life I ever used controllers. Those things feel incredibly clunky and uncomfortable to use compared to the good old mouse and keyboard which I have been using since I was 3 years old.

Well, yes, you only played for a few moments with a gamepad, it makes sense that you can't use it effectively. But this is the same with KBM, you just forgot about it because you are so used to them by now. It took me a long time to get used to playing with a gamepad with 3D games (i never had issues with 2D games though) and the first time i used it in an FPS i couldn't even keep the camera looking straight forward. Nowadays however i can play with them perfectly fine, it is a matter of getting used to them.

Also gamepads are more comfortable because you can lay back on your chair/sofa and play with your hands resting on your thighs, with KBM you have to stand straight (or alternatively, crow over the keyboard :-P) and if you have long and/or heavy arms you have your wrists or parts of your arm be pushed against the edges of the desk. Even with a desk with smooth corners, it still gets annoying since it affects the blood flow and after a while it becomes uncomfortable. Similarly with the mousepad with gel (i do not use those at all but from the little i used one, it gave me an uncomfortable feeling in my wrist). And depending on your chair, your elbows may be floating in the air or pushed against the chair arms.

FWIW i wasn't noticing these things until a few years ago. Might be me getting older :-/

 

[Morenatsu.]

You're supposed to use your hands, not your feet.

Yes. My hands which are attached to wrists. The existence of wrists means mouse and keyboard is way more comfortable and versatile than a controller I need to hold in my hands, and where I only use my fingers for inputs.

Controllers are the worst input device of them all.

You don't have to hold the controller up 50 feet in the air. You can, in fact, rest your hands on something as you use it. This is like complaining that toilets are hard to use while you're sitting on the rim instead of the seat.

 

[JarlFrank]

You're supposed to use your hands, not your feet.

Yes. My hands which are attached to wrists. The existence of wrists means mouse and keyboard is way more comfortable and versatile than a controller I need to hold in my hands, and where I only use my fingers for inputs.

Controllers are the worst input device of them all.

You don't have to hold the controller up 50 feet in the air. You can, in fact, rest your hands on something as you use it. This is like complaining that toilets are hard to use while you're sitting on the rim instead of the seat.

And it's still a less comfortable hand position than hovering over mouse and keyboard.