Gothic Gothic remake from THQ Nordic

[Cryomancer]

If at any point enemies are magically invincible just because numbers, that's not fun and not immersive in any way

Implement a minimal damage of 1.

But as a fire mage for eg, as a circle 1 mage, i can't damage anyone wearing fire robes, nor armor with fire resist nor creatures with little fire resist... When i get fireball(circle 3), use fire vs fire resist become possible. And when i get Storm of Fire(circle 4), i can damage most fire mages and one/two shots most high level creatures. Fire Rain(circle 5) deals only 100 damage BUT a lot of projectiles hit making the spell good vs some enemies and useless vs another. I love it.

Games with %damage resistance make everything into "the better weapon/better spell". There are not even armor piercing .308 rounds on fallout 4 because would make no sense on the game. Armor absorbs the same percentage, from .38 special or for a .50 bmg.

 

[Alphard]

If at any point enemies are magically invincible just because numbers, that's not fun and not immersive in any way

Implement a minimal damage of 1.

But as a fire mage for eg, as a circle 1 mage, i can't damage anyone wearing fire robes, nor armor with fire resist nor creatures with little fire resist... When i get fireball(circle 3), use fire vs fire resist become possible. And when i get Storm of Fire(circle 4), i can damage most fire mages and one/two shots most high level creatures. Fire Rain(circle 5) deals only 100 damage BUT a lot of projectiles hit making the spell good vs some enemies and useless vs another. I love it.

Games with %damage resistance make everything into "the better weapon/better spell". There are not even armor piercing .308 rounds on fallout 4 because would make no sense on the game. Armor absorbs the same percentage, from .38 special or for a .50 bmg.

Idk why u think only flat damage system can take into account other factors like type of attack, element resistence etc.
most of good games have these elements while not having raw subtraction formula

 

[Steezus]

I was under the impression that you would be linked to a survey once you finish the teaser. Didn't happen for me.

edit: nmv, found it after some googleing.

 

[Cryomancer]

Idk why u think only flat damage system can take into account other factors like type of attack, element resistence etc.

All spells that i mentioned did fire damage and Gothic +10 STR is a meaningful from 10 to 20 str as from 90 to 100 because in all cases, it means that enemies that you could't damage now take 1~9 damage and enmies who you did 1~9 damage are not taking more than the double. Do you really think that Fallout 4 armor system aka power armor absobs -X% of damage, from a .22 LR and a .50 BMG is better than FNV? On FNV, i remember when i was with a carbine and .38 special rounds. There was enemies who even after firing all of my "tube", din't took any significant damage, so i switched to .357 magnum ammo and deal considerably more damage. Few points of damage increase can be very impactfull in a encounter, useless in another and a minor bonus in another.

All weapons feels the same on FL4. While on FNV, a 9mm SMG is amazing for unarmored humans but not that amazing against larger animals or heavily amored humans. Only because Dragon's Dogma did flat reduction bad, doesn't means that every game with it did badly Keep in mind that DD has it as a flat amount and as a percentage. And that as i've showed, you can at lv 9 kill golems with strategy, preparation and skills.

Okay, dear THQ, are you listening? DIALOGUE WHEEL BAD. NO DIALOGUE WHEEL.

You are right. Dialogue wheel is so bad that literally the most popular mod for FL4 removes this BS. Why THQ nordic is copying BS from other games that nobody likes?

 

[JDR13]

It's still there, but you can't buy it anymore, you can only buy the Remastered one.

Ah ok. Since I already own it on Steam, there would be no buy button for me anyways. That's why I couldn't tell it had been removed.

It's irrelevant if you already own the game on steam or not. The buy button doesn't go away unless the game has been removed.

Yes it does. Compare the store page of a game you own to one you don't.

If you don't own the game, there's a buy button on the top of the page directly underneath the game media. It's not there if you already own the game. You can still purchase the game as a gift, but you have to scroll down to see that.

 

[Dexter]

Again, it's just a concept demo. Nothing is set in stone. Yes, the dialogue wheel is garbage, but that's something that can be changed fairly easily. If enough people show their dislike for it, I'm pretty sure they'll go to a more standard system for the dialogue.

Okay, dear THQ, are you listening? DIALOGUE WHEEL BAD. NO DIALOGUE WHEEL.

I really don't get this autism and fixation on this one thing both here and in the News thread. I made fun of the Mass Effect "Paragon/Neutral/Renegade" Options with the best of them and even did a gif replacing the Dragon Age 2 symbols with le trool-faces since it was stupid (which for some reason I can't find anymore), but what the Gothic Teaser has is not a "dialogue wheel" as those games did. It's just a remapping of the classic dialogue options so they're more easily selectable with a controller. There is no seemingly Top-Good/Bottom-Bad/Left-Aggressive/Right-Pacifist Options, there isn't really even annoying paraphrasing so it ain't clear what exactly you are choosing since the full sentence is displayed below when you hover over an Option. They could 1:1 replicate Gothic's entire dialogue Options in this format without much of any problem. The only adjustment that would be needed is that for long or broader conversations Subtopics would be ordered under broader Topics like "Old Camp" or whatever, but they did this twice or thrice in the Demo already with "Q" heading back to the broader topics to choose something else:

 

[JDR13]

I was under the impression that you would be linked to a survey once you finish the teaser. Didn't happen for me.

edit: nmv, found it after some googleing.

Yeah, I was a little confused by that as well.

 

[Dodo1610]

Pb is like

 

[Jenkem]

If this game was not called Gothic, would you still hate it?

 

[Lord of Riva]

If this game was not called Gothic, would you still hate it?

I would still think it's bad. But if it wasn't called Gothic i would assume i'm not part of the target audience and ignore it.

There are various reasons for this, the graphical presentation is simply below average at best even though just like with the combat these are indeed things that can still be worked upon.

The Story however and how it is presented is just outright bad, from the quality of the VA, to the dramatic intro to the way how characters (diego especially with this first person cinematic view) interact with the character.
Also mentioned should be that the start of the game is so vastly different than the original that there is nothing that impresses me from the get go: "Getting a Weapon" quests are just not as interesting as "well yeah, here you are, good luck"

Also while they try to add things to the teaser they imho retain the wrong aspects of it, a quest to find a specific wine, or to kill some enemies were generic in Gothic as well it was only the context and the rest of the game that made them not completely shit.

So yeah, if it wasn't Gothic I wouldn't even have logged in here to see what people are saying.

 

[Cryomancer]

Facebook suggested me an article about THQ Nordic response to how Playable Teaser was received. Here's the full article (in Polish), unfortunately no sources were listed, but they seem to be pretty confident about what they are talking about. For those of you who don't know Polish, here are the major things:

1. It's still uncertain, whether the projet will be finished, but THQ plans on creating another prototype, acknowledging all the feedback they got. Reception of that one will probably pivot on their commitment to full game.
   
   
2. Combat system will be changed, as it was the most criticized thing.
   
   
3. Graphics will be changed, many people commented that it's too bright and colorful.
   
   
4. Scene with Bullit hitting Nameless Hero in the beginning will be back. Entire beginning will be rebuilt accordingly, no snappers, etc.
   
   
5. No collaboration with Piranha Bytes will be formed. They are currently busy with their own project and the only remaining member from the team working on original Gothic is Björn Pankratz.
   
   
6. It is possible that original music will come back. THQ has rights to it and Kai Rosenkranz isn't currently signed with any gaming company, so there shouldn't be any problem if there came to agreement between them. On a personal note - I'd love it so much. Also Kai seems to like his old Gothic work, so I think the ball is on THQ's side.
   
   
7. German version will probably have some recurring voice actors, but not all of them (understandable, some years have passed). As for other language version it'll probably come to local publishers.

If all of this is true (once again, no sources are given in the article), I'm soo hyped for the remake.

source : https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/comments/ebv4yf/thq_nordic_response_to_some_of_the_feedback/

 

[Tweed]

Still doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, but hey I could barely run the damn thing for some reason.

 

[UglyBastard]

About the flat vs % based damage reduction:

As far as I recall there IS actually a minimum damage threshold (5) for damage, so it can never be reduced to 0. So you could actually kill the guy in plate armor with a table spoon, given that you are nimble enough to avoid his hits (because a single one will devastate you). It's actually quite easy to grind some of the wildlife down with your basic sword because they have very easy patterns (if you don't run out of patience beforehand). Humans with combat training on the other hand have some erratic and very fast moves, so it's almost impossible to totally avoid getting hit.

What critics or the armor/damage system don't realize is that it is essential for the Gothic feel. Gear and skill upgrades are very noticeable and give you a better sense of progression. With your shiny new guild armor those goblins suddenly can't overwhelm you anymore because their makeshift weapons can't pierce it. After putting some points in strenght and getting that new axe you are finally dealing REAL damage to that troll, time to try him again.
This won't happen when upgrading from Shade armor to Gardist armor would net you +10% damage reduction. The difference is there but barely noticeable during a single fight sequence.
And the feeling of progression is why the Gothic games were so great. Everyone loves the early and mid game, because you explore and get noticeably more capable with every milestone, giving you new exploration options in turn.
Cleaving up a wolf pack that destroyed you beforehand with your new sword and armor feels amazing.

Of course this system has problems as well. There is an upper ceiling from where the scaling doesn't work anymore. Most of the content becomes trivial and you become overpowered. Nobody can hurt you or (in case of Gothic) you destroy everything in one hit. The Gothic games suffer from this as well, especially in the end game. When you focus your build, nothing can stop you later in the game. It's becoming boring and exploration options narrowing down are not helping either. That's part of the reason why the last chapters are not liked well.

A percentage based system would provide with an overall more balanced gameplay during every step of the game. But Gothic is not balanced and the lack of balance is (part of) what makes it so great.
A good example for a perfectly balanced game with no OP shit and decent percentages would be Pillars of Eternity. Who doesn't love increasing their damage by 1%?

On the point of flat reduction being unrealistic, percentage based is not better. Your plate mail providing 50% reduction against spoon attacks and nuclear warheads makes no sense either. It doesn't really have to, though, because it's a game system and if the gameplay is for the better with it, don't hold back. Just don't implement it in the Gothic remake and think players will feel the same as back then.

 

[catfood]

There is no feedback to give other than to stop making it. Everything that they changed about the original shows that they have no clue what made it so great to begin with.

Like if you need to be told that removing the scene with Bullit (you know, one of the most inconic scenes in the CRPG world) then there's nothing else to discuss. It's like hiring a driver who doesn't even know which pedal does what.

 

[toro]

If this game was not called Gothic, would you still hate it?

Unfortunately the answer is Yes. Main reasons: retarded combat system, retarded dialogue/characters, retarded cutscenes and consolized controls.

I would play Greedfall before this crap.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

retarded combat system

I still fail too see a concrete argument of what makes this combat system bad and where is it's QTE's?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

retarded combat system

I still fail too see a concrete argument of what makes this combat system bad and where is it's QTE's?

To me, it felt like a boring twitchfest designed with console gamers in mind.

Just move the mouse in time in a certain direction to block the attack, then quickly move it to the other direction and press the LMB or RMB.

Rinse and repeat until the enemy is dead.

To add insult to the injury, the terrible over the shoulder camera tends to be blocked by trees or other objects.

 

[toro]

retarded combat system

I still fail too see a concrete argument of what makes this combat system bad and where is it's QTE's?

Try to play For Honor with Kb + Mouse and ask me again.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

twitchfest

Twich gameplay has always been a part of action combat systems.
All good figthers, shooters and hack 'n' slash games have it to some degree.

Just move the mouse in time in a certain direction to block the attack, then quickly move it to the other direction and press the LMB or RMB.

Rinse and repeat until the enemy is dead.

If we're going to be this reducionist, you'll find no action game has good combat.

I agree the way it is currentely needs more work, features and moves to make be great.
Because system itself is great for sword fighting.

To add insult to the injury, the terrible over the shoulder camera tends to be blocked by trees or other objects.

For the objects obscuring the camera, it's an easy fix. They just have to make them transparent when they get in front of the camera.

The over-the-camera is actually pretty good to gauge distance when figthing 1 oponent.
And that's the real crux of the both the camera and the system.
It's great for fighting humanoid oponents, specially in the context of duels. Because it was designed for specifically for that.

And that's what worries me, is that they did not think this properly.
This system excels at duels but still works when fighting multiple opponents (as For Honor proves it). And while it may not favour you in such occasions, it fits well it Gothic since in those games you're not suposed to be an action hero that can put down hordes of enemies single-handedly and the combat system was at it's worst when also fighting multiple oponents. However monsters, or really any enemy that wasn't a humanoid shape and bears wepons, are a complete different matter because they're not something that this system isn't absolutely designed for.

Try to play For Honor with Kb + Mouse and ask me again.

I have.
If you're implying this remake's combat isn't as good as For Honor, I totally agree. However if you're implying For Honor's combat is bad I totally disagree.

 

[Harthwain]

retarded combat system

I still fail too see a concrete argument of what makes this combat system bad and where is it's QTE's?

Try to play For Honor with Kb + Mouse and ask me again.

Gothic I (and II) always had left-up-right combat system (using the arrow keys). Linking directions allowed for combos, depending on your proficiency and weapon. All they did was visualizing this, if I am not mistaken. For Honor did pretty much the same thing, only added Mouse to the equation to control which zone you use to strike (and added parry, in Gothic you could only block an attack).

 

[Lord of Riva]

Facebook suggested me an article about THQ Nordic response to how Playable Teaser was received. Here's the full article (in Polish), unfortunately no sources were listed, but they seem to be pretty confident about what they are talking about. For those of you who don't know Polish, here are the major things:

1. It's still uncertain, whether the projet will be finished, but THQ plans on creating another prototype, acknowledging all the feedback they got. Reception of that one will probably pivot on their commitment to full game.
   
   
2. Combat system will be changed, as it was the most criticized thing.
   
   
3. Graphics will be changed, many people commented that it's too bright and colorful.
   
   
4. Scene with Bullit hitting Nameless Hero in the beginning will be back. Entire beginning will be rebuilt accordingly, no snappers, etc.
   
   
5. No collaboration with Piranha Bytes will be formed. They are currently busy with their own project and the only remaining member from the team working on original Gothic is Björn Pankratz.
   
   
6. It is possible that original music will come back. THQ has rights to it and Kai Rosenkranz isn't currently signed with any gaming company, so there shouldn't be any problem if there came to agreement between them. On a personal note - I'd love it so much. Also Kai seems to like his old Gothic work, so I think the ball is on THQ's side.
   
   
7. German version will probably have some recurring voice actors, but not all of them (understandable, some years have passed). As for other language version it'll probably come to local publishers.

If all of this is true (once again, no sources are given in the article), I'm soo hyped for the remake.

source : https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/comments/ebv4yf/thq_nordic_response_to_some_of_the_feedback/

I was on the Discord just now and their community manager told me this is fake:

 

[Steezus]

retarded combat system

I still fail too see a concrete argument of what makes this combat system bad and where is it's QTE's?

Try to play For Honor with Kb + Mouse and ask me again.

Gothic I (and II) always had left-up-right combat system (using the arrow keys). Linking directions allowed for combos, depending on your proficiency and weapon. All they did was visualizing this, if I am not mistaken. For Honor did pretty much the same thing, only added Mouse to the equation to control which zone you use to strike (and added parry, in Gothic you could only block an attack).

Among all the things we've seen in the demo, the combat has by far the most potential. It's in-line with the old system and if (which admittetly is a huge if) they churn out some decent AI and make it more responsive, I'd be pretty dope.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Twich gameplay has always been a part of action combat systems.
All good figthers, shooters and hack 'n' slash games have it to some degree.

To some degree, unlike here. All I had to do is follow visual cues as quickly as possible to kill the enemy.

If we're going to be this reducionist, you'll find no action game has good combat.

There are quite a few action games with good combat. Maybe I haven't played more modern ones, where you just follow the QTE-style prompts?

The over-the-camera is actually pretty good to gauge distance when figthing 1 oponent.

With that kind of perspective and narrow FOV I don't know how you can gauge anything.

Sure, if they fix the QTE-style twitchfest and make something more tolerable out of it, it'll probably be okay.

 

[Cryomancer]

What critics or the armor/damage system don't realize is that it is essential for the Gothic feel. Gear and skill upgrades are very noticeable and give you a better sense of progression. With your shiny new guild armor those goblins suddenly can't overwhelm you anymore because their makeshift weapons can't pierce it. After putting some points in strenght and getting that new axe you are finally dealing REAL damage to that troll, time to try him again.
This won't happen when upgrading from Shade armor to Gardist armor would net you +10% damage reduction. The difference is there but barely noticeable during a single fight sequence.
And the feeling of progression is why the Gothic games were so great. Everyone loves the early and mid game, because you explore and get noticeably more capable with every milestone, giving you new exploration options in turn.
Cleaving up a wolf pack that destroyed you beforehand with your new sword and armor feels amazing.

Yep. On my templar run, when i killed the Troll without the need of the scroll was so amazing. Same with my mage run. My circle 3 magician could't do any damage on him. When he becomes a circle 4 magician, the troll died to some Storm of Fires...

Among all the things we've seen in the demo, the combat has by far the most potential. It's in-line with the old system and if (which admittetly is a huge if) they churn out some decent AI and make it more responsive, I'd be pretty dope.

The combat is the WEAKEST part of G1 remake. I mean, fighting packs of wolves at lv 0 and they needing 8 bites to kill you while you need to hit then 10 times and the combat is hard scripted is just awful.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

To some degree, unlike here. All I had to do is follow visual cues as quickly as possible to kill the enemy.

When I said to some degree I was implying that every action game has it, some more than others. And there's nothing wrong with a game being twichy. Alot of the best action games out there are incredibly fast paced.

And like I said, the game does lack more aspects for it's combat to be truly great. But the system they choose has that potential. The only problem being how to adapt it to figthing monsters.

There are quite a few action games with good combat.

Yeah I know.
But if we were to be as reductionist as you were in you last post, no action game could be consider good in it's mechanics.

With that kind of perspective and narrow FOV I don't know how you can gauge anything.

The FOV can always be increased.
But there's really nothing wrong with the perspective for 1v1 fights. It's built exactely for duels.
In all my hours of playing For Honor I never had any problem with it or any of my friends or for that matter the enitre game's community.

Sure, if they fix the QTE-style

A QTE, as far as my understands goes, is a context-sensitive action that limits the player's control and breaks the flow of the game.
Where the fuck are the QTE's here?
At no point in this combat system you are asked, or forced, to perform an action that takes away your control over the PC and breaks the flow of combat.