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Gothic Gothic remake from THQ Nordic

Lord of Riva

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I love Gothic and it is quite excellent in what it does but this seems to me like hair-splitting. Gothic just used existing ideas in their original system from the times.

From what I can tell, Gothic has excelled in combining these ideas into a well working package and had their spin on it but that is, in my opinion, not the same as creating something new.
 

OctavianRomulus

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You can very well finish both gothics without ever blocking.

You can also finish all DS games without blocking. And on DS3 you can dodge spam easily. I prefer the moving back and blocking than rolling from gothic. Makes more sense IMO

Fully agree with Panda here, Gothic has merely average combat. Its just janky animation cancelling where you learn which animation loop deals the highest damage and has the highest chance to stagger your opponent to death with your current weapon and training level. The majority of the combat is decided by clever pulling, kiting and positioning.

The combat however was never the main selling point, it just has to exist to give the roleplaying system a reason to exist. Your armor upgrade and your new sword would not feel as good if the combat was unfun.

In therms of a combat game, Gothic is AT BEST average however, Gothic combat is a masterpiece in one aspect. Immersion. Using a weapon like a anime protagonist and when someone teaches you how to proper use a weapon, using in a way that makes sense in Old Camp was so amazing. What other game had you changing stances/combat animation to fit your character knowledge according? That a pack of wolves is a threat to a unarmored unskilled peasant with no supernatural abilities?

I would rather see Trump reelected than for them to defile the Gothic series zoomer-style.

You will get both.

I have to disagree. G2 has a great combat system. Risen 1 perfected it. The only thing that could make it perfect would be to implement a stamina system and shields but as an improvement to the formula and not the way G3 did it, which sucked.
 

Cryomancer

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I have to disagree. G2 has a great combat system. Risen 1 perfected it. The only thing that could make it perfect would be to implement a stamina system and shields but as an improvement to the formula and not the way G3 did it, which sucked.

What do you think about the way that returning implemented stamina?
 

OctavianRomulus

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I have to disagree. G2 has a great combat system. Risen 1 perfected it. The only thing that could make it perfect would be to implement a stamina system and shields but as an improvement to the formula and not the way G3 did it, which sucked.

What do you think about the way that returning implemented stamina?

I only briefly played Returning. I thought it changed the game too much. But basically a meaningful stamina system would be cool. You raise it by investing in Vitality, which also increases Health. You can't attack unless you have Stamina, blocking reduces it and if an attack depletes all your remaining Stamina you are exposed to an attack. Parrying does only half the Stamina damage but is harder to pull off as the window is more strict. With blocking, you can just hold the right mouse button. The stronger your attack, the greater the Stamina damage. If you Parry or Block at the right moment, the enemy is exposed to a counter attack that deals increased damage but you need to learn this skill. This damage is multiplied by Dexterity.

A Strength build focuses on on brute force. The harder you hit, the greater the stamina damage when your opponent blocks.

Dexterity build could instead rely on dodging, reducing Parry Stamina damage and instead of raising Vitality you invest into Dexterity with the tradeoff that if you get hit you really feel it. Dexterity also increases the damage of your Riposte.

A hybrid build mixes the two approaches and is basically how soldiers would train lore-wise.
 
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baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Is Piranha Bytes considered "indie"? Just curious. The fact that they're based in Europe would kind of indicate this. But they've been around for a long time, had a few critically-acclaimed "hits", etc. On the other hand, CDPR are raking in the dough but are still independent, I guess.

for starters, Piranha Bytes is a subsidiary of THQ Nordic, so they're not even independent legally. Indie is also a label that's applied to small studios and at 30 people, PB is way to big
 
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It's pretty impressive what they do though. From what I understand, they developed ELEX with around 25 people. Compare to 700+ for Cyberpunk 2077, 100+ for KCD, 300-400+ for witcher 3, that is insane for an open world game.
 

OctavianRomulus

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Either way, I don't get it. What's wrong with the Gothic 2 and Risen 1 combat system? I thought they were really good. Kinda like a proto Dark Souls. I especially like how as you put points in fighting skills, you get new animations and if you invest into Two Handed you also get a bit of One Handed. Sure, they are rough around the edges but I love them.
 

Perkel

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Either way, I don't get it. What's wrong with the Gothic 2 and Risen 1 combat system? I thought they were really good. Kinda like a proto Dark Souls. I especially like how as you put points in fighting skills, you get new animations and if you invest into Two Handed you also get a bit of One Handed. Sure, they are rough around the edges but I love them.

Mechanically they are good but they can easily be made to look better and fucking control much better. I played it back on release and even then control scheme was dogshit, same with rest of ui interactions. And this was the time when some people still played with keyboard only their fpses. Imagine now trying it now

If they can improve it is entirely other question.
 
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For the time, Gothic 1/2 combat was absolutely revolutionary and amazing. Again, you can't compare it to today's Dark Souls or whatever. Compare it to the Morrowinds, Arx Fatalis, Daggerfall, Oblivion, etc. That was the alternative back then.

Gothic 3 combat was absolute dogshit at release, they got rid of all the things that made g1/2 combat special, no idea why. I can understand the argument that G3 scope was too much for them when it comes to world design, quests, content, etc, but it never made sense to me when it came to basic mechanics. Why take something that was really good and throw all of it away for something worse? That is an excellent question for PB if anyone ever does a real interview with them.
With community patches, it actually becomes decent against humanoid enemies (humans, Orcs, skeletons, etc), but not as good as the first two games.

Risen 1 combat is excellent also, kinda like a polished version of G1/2, though it was also missing some good stuff from the first 2 gothic games (like the animations improving with skill). But they made parrying more streamlined, introduced dodging against animals, and other nifty stuff.

Risen 2 had some kind of a fencing system, which I hated, because it relied too much on reflexes. Haven't played Risen 3 yet.

ELEX combat is also not that good. They have timed blocks but they only work against 1 handed weapons and freeze the enemy in place forever, which is weird. So mostly, people roll and block with shields.
 

Perkel

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Combat was great but how you control your character and ui elements were always dogshit. It never felt "right" even after playing full game multiple times.
 

Tavar

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Is Piranha Bytes considered "indie"? Just curious. The fact that they're based in Europe would kind of indicate this. But they've been around for a long time, had a few critically-acclaimed "hits", etc. On the other hand, CDPR are raking in the dough but are still independent, I guess.
No, they're not indie and it is doubtful whether they ever have been. They are now owned by THQ Nordic and were an independent double A studio before that.
 
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I thought the combat was janky low tech ass.
It was, but it seems that people on this thread have only played Morrowind aside from these games to say this kind of shit

Which RPGs had better melee combat at the time Gothic was released?

For the time it could have been good, but since then there has been countless games games with infinetly better combat that make the combat of Gothic 1 and 2 look plain and janky in comparison
 

Ravielsk

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Every proper RPG, and every MMO too.
Then name at least two?
For the time it could have been good, but since then there has been countless games games with infinetly better combat that make the combat of Gothic 1 and 2 look plain and janky in comparison
Well, yeah its been 20 years since G1 released and the brunt of the development took place in the 90s. Kinda hard to stay ahead of the curve for over 2 decades.
 
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For the time it could have been good, but since then there has been countless games games with infinetly better combat that make the combat of Gothic 1 and 2 look plain and janky in comparison
Well, yeah its been 20 years since G1 released and the brunt of the development took place in the 90s. Kinda hard to stay ahead of the curve for over 2 decades.

What I'm trying to say is that the combat in the Gothic games is not anywhere near great by today standards, and it is certainly something that should be reworked in the remake (I just hope it isn't the trashy copy of For Honor that we've seen in the teaser)
 

Dishonoredbr

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I hope they really take all feedback to the heart because even if you never played Gothic , there so much wrong with that demo lmao.
 
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