KickStarter Grim Dawn

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Honestly unless you have a huge fucking boner for getting shit legit via farm/grind it's so much simpler just to bring in set pieces and shit with programs like GDStash. The loot tables in this game are so bloated it isn't funny. Just cheat them in, I can assure you that even with full BiS gearings on bleeding-edge builds you will still encounter some hellacious fights. Your mileage may vary but I find building characters and putting them through their paces to be infinitely more entertaining than doing Cronley run after Cronley run trying to get that son of a bitch's ring to even drop.

 

[Lacrymas]

I tried that Reaper build I linked and it's pretty cool. Starting as a Nightblade is rough on Veteran, due to not having any readily available AoE, I recommend Necro and getting Bone Harvest (it is indeed a way better skill than Phantasmal Blades, I tried both, even without taking into consideration bonuses) as soon as possible while wielding a two-hander. It's all good now, though, at level 17 with 2 epic swords the mobs melt and whirling around leeching health and impaling mobs on bones is fast and exciting, I like it. I'm testing what other alt I want to level, either this one or the Aether Ray Arcanist. Anyway, I have some thoughts on the story, or at least the pacing. I feel like they went epic too fast, what with the aetherials infesting Burrwitch. I propose switching Krieg for Cronley for act one and Burrwitch being overran by bandits instead, with only a hint of aetherial here and there, like Cronley and his most trusted lieutenants. That way the tension won't deescalate when you get to act 2.

 

[Lacrymas]

After getting to level 30 with the Reaper and getting even more items for my Aether Ray Arcanist, I can definitely say that either melee builds are worse than casters for leveling, or I'm doing something wrong with the build, or AAR Arcanists are overpowered. I have the (almost) best possible gear on my Reaper (dual-wielding Omens is ridiculously cool) and I still die too frequently than I'd like (aka more than 0) due to some freak damage spike from somewhere; the damage isn't nowhere near as brutal as the Arcanist; you are frustratingly often cockblocked by mobs with shields or high defensive rating, which simply doesn't happen with casters; and you (I) can't get higher than Crucible 40 for now (while my Arcanist could get to 70 at the same-ish level). Here's my current build, devotions and equipment (you can assume I've put a few components here and there), if anyone has any suggestions for improvement.

 

[Aeschylus]

After getting to level 30 with the Reaper and getting even more items for my Aether Ray Arcanist, I can definitely say that either melee builds are worse than casters for leveling, or I'm doing something wrong with the build, or AAR Arcanists are overpowered. I have the (almost) best possible gear on my Reaper (dual-wielding Omens is ridiculously cool) and I still die too frequently than I'd like (aka more than 0) due to some freak damage spike from somewhere; the damage isn't nowhere near as brutal as the Arcanist; you are frustratingly often cockblocked by mobs with shields or high defensive rating, which simply doesn't happen with casters; and you (I) can't get higher than Crucible 40 for now (while my Arcanist could get to 70 at the same-ish level). Here's my current build, devotions and equipment (you can assume I've put a few components here and there), if anyone has any suggestions for improvement.

As you observed, melee builds are tough to level compared to casters (AAR arcanists are not overpowered, they kind of suck in the end actually) -- you'll have an easier time maxing out one or two good ranged skills and just nuking everything in Veteran until you can get good enough equipment/enough skill points to make the melee side a bit stronger. As a necro, Ravenous Earth is a good choice for this purpose. You can then respec into your proper build once you're ready. Also, if you're aiming for a vit damage melee build, your best possible weapons are probably going to be MIs, unfortunately.

In terms of long-term advice for your build, I'd suggest a few things: more Pneumatic Burst; Blade Barrier as a ohshit button; Anatomy of Murder is generally p. good; as is the Nightblade debuff aura. You might want to minimize your skillpoint investment in the DW WPS skills (except for Whirling Death, which is quite good) in order to have more points to toss into more useful stuff. Bone Harvest is indeed very good for a vitality-focused melee build, and you should max it + soul harvest asap. Unless you really want Execution (hint: you don't) you should stop putting points into Nightblade and focus on Necro so you can grab Harbinger of Souls later. Make sure you max spectral wrath (and ideally get some other means of giving -resist) before you get to Ultimate or you'll have a rough time with certain enemies.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

How is nightblade bad at autopiloting normal? The chill aura is ridiculously easy and quick to max and then with a bit +skill/cold support everything dies just because you exist. I don't think there are many clasess with better cleaning speed:cost:effort ratio.

 

[Okagron]

Max Night's Chill, get Amarasta Blade Burst, max Lethal Assault, pick Shadow Strike for mobility. Done. I have leveled this way and it's super fast.

 

[Lacrymas]

As you observed, melee builds are tough to level compared to casters (AAR arcanists are not overpowered, they kind of suck in the end actually) -- you'll have an easier time maxing out one or two good ranged skills and just nuking everything in Veteran until you can get good enough equipment/enough skill points to make the melee side a bit stronger. As a necro, Ravenous Earth is a good choice for this purpose. You can then respec into your proper build once you're ready. Also, if you're aiming for a vit damage melee build, your best possible weapons are probably going to be MIs, unfortunately.

In terms of long-term advice for your build, I'd suggest a few things: more Pneumatic Burst; Blade Barrier as a ohshit button; Anatomy of Murder is generally p. good; as is the Nightblade debuff aura. You might want to minimize your skillpoint investment in the DW WPS skills (except for Whirling Death, which is quite good) in order to have more points to toss into more useful stuff. Bone Harvest is indeed very good for a vitality-focused melee build, and you should max it + soul harvest asap. Unless you really want Execution (hint: you don't) you should stop putting points into Nightblade and focus on Necro so you can grab Harbinger of Souls later. Make sure you max spectral wrath (and ideally get some other means of giving -resist) before you get to Ultimate or you'll have a rough time with certain enemies.

I meant AAR Arcanists are op at leveling, not at endgame, I know AAR has the disadvantage of not having any life leech. I'll get rid of most of the points in the DW techniques and get Whirling Death and Soul Harvest asap. Perhaps this is my end-game build -> https://www.grimtools.com/calc/vNQJ3YR2 I got rid of most of the DW techniques and got Harbinger of Souls. Also notice how I got the summoning constellations cause I think it's going to be cool, and that's why I also have Blade Spirit. Perhaps I can remove points from Phantasmal Armor and put them in either Shadow Dance or Anatomy of Murder. Check out the Chillwhisper set I equipped, I was hoping they'd put a vitality/cold set in FG and they indeed did that.

EDIT: After shuffling around some points, I managed to get to Crucible 70 at lvl 30, it's not bad for a melee build, but it was a very lucky run. Crucible gives a lot of experience btw, I'm not sure whether it doesn't give more than the main campaign itself, which is weird. I mostly played it for Devotion points, but I also casually gained 3 levels. The turn-in at 70 gave me a whole level of experience.

EDIT2: The twinking potential in this game is intense. Once I got to lvl 35, my damage almost tripled from Deathchill relic alone, I'm pretty sure the Reaper does more damage than the Arcanist now. I'm curious what will happen in Crucible, will try it out tomorrow. I also must commend Crate for being able to create a system where almost every skill is unique in itself and it crates potential for interesting builds *that play differently* and all are equally engaging. My main still remains my favorite, but I can't pick between the Reaper and Arcanist, which speaks volumes, and I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface. Obsidian, take note.

 

[Aeschylus]

Looks like a cool build concept -- I'm honestly not sure how well it will work in Ultimate, so good luck. A few small suggestions: I think the points in Nightfall are wasted as SS is really only good if you heavily over-level all the skills in the line. I'd put the points into the PB skills instead. It's worth dropping a few points in Dread, especially for your build. I'm not really sure about Blade Spirit; it used to be super strong, then got nerfed all to hell, then re-buffed a bit. I suspect you'll want to try to get that to 26/16 if possible if you're relying on it for damage.

 

[Lacrymas]

For leveling, it's better to go all out on vitality and cold damage, I tried the skellies, but they are very weak and have a needless 2 second cooldown that makes it hard to sustain them on non-spammable skills. Perhaps at max level, when I have Blade Spirit, Living Shadow and the skellies, it will work better. My Reaper has officially overtaken the Arcanist in leveling speed and damage, I find the Arcanist quite slow and squishy now, having to be played very methodically, while the Reaper just blazes through the battlefield, leeching health and never really dying unless there's some freak damage spike.

 

[Lacrymas]

I just managed to rush Elite difficulty in around 2ish hours, maybe a little less than 3. You don't need to do act 1 and the majority of quests. You do need to kill the amalgamation near Homestead, which is pointless, but 'k. You also want to do the attribute quests and the skill point quests (which means the Hidden Path). The Sentinel is the toughest fight when you rush (he is incidentally in the 99th wave of the Crucible and he's grotesquely overpowered, he managed to one-shot my 30k+ health Ritualist). The mobs at the end are lvl 65, and the damage they deal is not insignificant since I was underleveled (55-6). Using consumables is recommended. You can do normal Crucible for the missing Devotion points.

You unlock Ultimate by killing Log, which is great. What is not great, however, is the existence of Elite difficulty in the first place. It's filler of the worst kind, rushing through it really puts into perspective how much filler bullshit is in this game. I doubt anyone goes through it normally after their first char. It's good they are adding a way to skip it in the expansion, and I foresee people doing Normal and then skipping directly to Ultimate, which is the sane thing to do. I really can't overstate again and again how boring and atmosphere-less the map is (including AoM), I really, really hope the new expansion's areas are better. The screenshots look cool, and they can't fill a desert with swamps and forests, so there's that. I can't help but feel the plot is meandering and going nowhere, which I don't see changing in FG. It needs *story* and direction.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I disagree about needing story. ARPGs do not need story, they need complex mechanics and meaningful itemization choices (two things Crate has already shown they’re committed to imo). The Diablo series, for one example, got progressively weaker as each installment focused more and more on narrative.

I do agree that GD could use more varied environments though.

 

[Lacrymas]

Crate have populated their game with dozens upon dozens of lore notes, characters explaining the setting and the setting itself. You also have the grand narrative of the actual Grim Dawn, which hasn't been addressed at all and everything is hanging lifelessly in the air. I bring this up because Crate themselves brought it up by trying to have a narrative. I would've been fine with Diablo 1 style "demons bad, kill leader of demons" story, but that's not what we are getting. The atmosphere in Diablo is also much, much better, it gets progressively more oppressive the more you delve below the cathedral. Diablo 2 ruins everything after that, though. GD stumbles around and has no pacing and no direction. I also think the Loghorrean is kinda cute. That's bad for the tone they are going for.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

... I bring this up because Crate themselves brought it up by trying to have a narrative...

That is a fair rebuttal. Perhaps I've just lost perspective on this since I've made enough characters now that I am completely comfortable ignoring all of the lore bits present, but yes, thinking about it, you are correct that they clearly put a lot of work into this side of things.
I still don't think things are quite as bad as you make out though. In terms of the Act structure, 2, 3 and 6 shit the bed on pacing (with 3 being the egregious offender). The rest seem fine, if ultimately unsatisying when taken as a narrative whole.
It does seem slightly weird to me that FG is allegedly just a "side-story" about the Old Gods, but I'm not prepared to judge it until I've played it. AoM showed (kick-in-the-teeth difficulty spike included) on the whole that Crate was interested in listening to the GD community and responding to its wishes and needs, and that's bought enough faith and goodwill that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Lacrymas]

Has anyone discussed this on their forums, though? I fire up Grim Dawn very rarely because I burn out on this type of game very fast and don't think to write anything on their forums or read them after I'm done. It's too late to do anything about this anyway, I got the itch to play GD after the FG announcement and leveling a new char invoked these concerns. What I think happened is they wanted to go all out during their early access, when only act 1 was available, so they had to do something unique to stand out and not default to bandits. After that, however, they thought "holy shit, we went too epic" and backpedaled to bandits for act 2. Act 3 is atrocious and pointless, act 4 has a bit of urgency and you do feel like you are besieging the Necropolis (I've never thought a whole city of graves could be so boring and atmosphere-less). AoM's story is very self-contained and it doesn't gel well with the rest of the game, I predict FG being the same. So, yeah, we have no narrative payoff or a satisfying plot and conclusion. GD is a hodge-podge of ideas that make no sense together and they would've worked better as separate, more developed, stories. The interesting bits are underdeveloped (aetherials vs chthonians, the reason for the Grim Dawn, what happened to the rest of the world, what are we supposed to do now), while trivial shit is extended beyond good taste (petty conflicts like Devil's Crossing vs Krieg, Homestead's farm infestation, Cronley's Gang, etc.).

The more down-to-earth moments could've been interesting if Crate kept it in their pants and made the corresponding acts only about those things and really show how much people are struggling against their fairly minor in the grand scheme of things problems. F.e. act 1 has too much walking towards Burrwitch, but a fairly anti-climatic fight against Krieg. AoM is also literally retelling of Act 1 btw, just more expanded. You go through a swamp and a forest to reach a city which is being used as an experiment by the aetherials. This just shows how much shit they cram into a single act and having it go nowhere, AoM itself goes nowhere too, which is shocking. Too much is happening in GD and the tonal shifts are jarring. Is this a post-apocalyptic survival story or an epic fight between cosmic powers and us being caught in the middle? It's trying to be both and failing at both.

 

[Aeschylus]

You unlock Ultimate by killing Log, which is great. What is not great, however, is the existence of Elite difficulty in the first place.

Well, on the bright side, apparently the next expansion will add the ability to start the game in Ultimate difficulty, scaling from level 1.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, you'll get all the bonus ability/skill points and all 55 devotion points unlocked. Which is good and you can go straight to the actual reason you play this game - go crazy with different builds. It's suspicious how a thing that lets you skip 66% of the game is an improvement, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't think all builds/masteries will be able to go directly to Ultimate at level 1 though, starting as a Nightblade is cancer on Normal, let alone Ultimate. You'll level faster, though, so there's that.

 

[Zakhad]

I don't have an issue with the plot or pacing--I actually like the Act 2 bit where you're wandering through different areas and enemies trying to get to Homestead.

I do agree that elite difficulty is totally pointless, but I think everyone agrees with that. I assume they just included it as some legacy of Diablo 2, and didn't really ask themselves "why?" until it was too late.

 

[Sykar]

As you observed, melee builds are tough to level compared to casters (AAR arcanists are not overpowered, they kind of suck in the end actually) -- you'll have an easier time maxing out one or two good ranged skills and just nuking everything in Veteran until you can get good enough equipment/enough skill points to make the melee side a bit stronger. As a necro, Ravenous Earth is a good choice for this purpose. You can then respec into your proper build once you're ready. Also, if you're aiming for a vit damage melee build, your best possible weapons are probably going to be MIs, unfortunately.

In terms of long-term advice for your build, I'd suggest a few things: more Pneumatic Burst; Blade Barrier as a ohshit button; Anatomy of Murder is generally p. good; as is the Nightblade debuff aura. You might want to minimize your skillpoint investment in the DW WPS skills (except for Whirling Death, which is quite good) in order to have more points to toss into more useful stuff. Bone Harvest is indeed very good for a vitality-focused melee build, and you should max it + soul harvest asap. Unless you really want Execution (hint: you don't) you should stop putting points into Nightblade and focus on Necro so you can grab Harbinger of Souls later. Make sure you max spectral wrath (and ideally get some other means of giving -resist) before you get to Ultimate or you'll have a rough time with certain enemies.

I meant AAR Arcanists are op at leveling, not at endgame, I know AAR has the disadvantage of not having any life leech. I'll get rid of most of the points in the DW techniques and get Whirling Death and Soul Harvest asap. Perhaps this is my end-game build -> https://www.grimtools.com/calc/vNQJ3YR2 I got rid of most of the DW techniques and got Harbinger of Souls. Also notice how I got the summoning constellations cause I think it's going to be cool, and that's why I also have Blade Spirit. Perhaps I can remove points from Phantasmal Armor and put them in either Shadow Dance or Anatomy of Murder. Check out the Chillwhisper set I equipped, I was hoping they'd put a vitality/cold set in FG and they indeed did that.

EDIT: After shuffling around some points, I managed to get to Crucible 70 at lvl 30, it's not bad for a melee build, but it was a very lucky run. Crucible gives a lot of experience btw, I'm not sure whether it doesn't give more than the main campaign itself, which is weird. I mostly played it for Devotion points, but I also casually gained 3 levels. The turn-in at 70 gave me a whole level of experience.

EDIT2: The twinking potential in this game is intense. Once I got to lvl 35, my damage almost tripled from Deathchill relic alone, I'm pretty sure the Reaper does more damage than the Arcanist now. I'm curious what will happen in Crucible, will try it out tomorrow. I also must commend Crate for being able to create a system where almost every skill is unique in itself and it crates potential for interesting builds *that play differently* and all are equally engaging. My main still remains my favorite, but I can't pick between the Reaper and Arcanist, which speaks volumes, and I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface. Obsidian, take note.

Since 1.1.0.0 there is a green off hand which grants AAR 6% attack damage converted to health. I just brought one of my newest characters to level 100, an ARR Spellbinder and she was by far the easiest to level and is plowing through everything like a hot knife through butter even Flesh Hulks and aether resistant bosses with pretty mediocre gear with the only level 90+ item being my Mystical Iskandra's amulet. Zero deaths occured on the road to 100 by the way. I can't wait to raise my average items level from 67 to 90+.

 

[Lacrymas]

What offhand is that?

EDIT: It's an MI from the Amalgamation, the boss at the end of the Homestead farms.

 

[Zakhad]

Yeah, with that MI (plus MoE) an AAR Arcanist can facetank most bosses on normal, no need to dodge when you're causing millions of points of damage and healing yourself faster than they can harm you. No idea what it's like on higher difficulties, I'm only just at lvl 55, I suspect it might not scale that well. Seems pretty good on higher levels of crucible, though. You do have good aether-resist-reduction if you dual inquisitor (death sentence). Like Sykar said, you can be under-levelled with gear as long as you have that piece. The gear flexibility might help on higher levels with making sure you get the right resists.

What devotions do you run, Sykar ? I went for hourglass to keep mirror up when needed and then spear since it's the same requirements and is aether, but that doesn't leave you with that much... maybe some ascendant defensive devotions like scales/dryad which are pretty cheap?

Overall surprised by how much I like AAR, had always been put off it as a skill because of the channelling.

 

[Lacrymas]

Widow and Bard's Harp are good too.

 

[Sykar]

Yeah, with that MI (plus MoE) an AAR Arcanist can facetank most bosses on normal, no need to dodge when you're causing millions of points of damage and healing yourself faster than they can harm you. No idea what it's like on higher difficulties, I'm only just at lvl 55, I suspect it might not scale that well. Seems pretty good on higher levels of crucible, though. You do have good aether-resist-reduction if you dual inquisitor (death sentence). Like Sykar said, you can be under-levelled with gear as long as you have that piece. The gear flexibility might help on higher levels with making sure you get the right resists.

What devotions do you run, Sykar ? I went for hourglass to keep mirror up when needed and then spear since it's the same requirements and is aether, but that doesn't leave you with that much... maybe some ascendant defensive devotions like scales/dryad which are pretty cheap?

Overall surprised by how much I like AAR, had always been put off it as a skill because of the channelling.

I'll just link grimtools: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLDGnOV
Bear in mind this is for a build which converts much of the elemental damage into aether damage. Also I have yet to look more closely into the new constallations, I might change something. Since I run a Spellbinder with 10/10 MoT and 12/12 MoE in addition to leech and Siphon Souls I do not feel the need for Hourglass. That and I run an Eternity relic now, which just makes me realize that I have 2 not just one level 90+ item, though I ran Haunt for 99% of the time until now.
For other classes I think Hourglass is still a top choice. I also run a Magehunter variant which converts AAR to lightning mostly and a Warlock with Chaos Ray though I am a bit stuck at Log Legendary since I have 0 gear for him and his stats are simply put crap for Legendary.

 

[Lacrymas]

The new constellations aren't that interesting tbh, I checked them out recently and didn't see anything particularly special or noteworthy. Maybe Azrakaa, the Eternal Sands is fun or maybe I'll pick up Yugol, the Insatiable Night, since it's the only summon which doesn't require an active ability and I don't have a spammable one. Btw, I'm pretty sure the forgotten god they are talking about in FG is either Yugol or Korvaak.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Tbh it was kinda implied ingame it was Korvaak

 

[deama]

Is the new expnasion gonna add a new continent or something so I don't have to playthough the OG? Cause I've tried playing through ashes of malmouth, but always get really bored trying to get to it cause it gets boring at the last 1/3rd of the original game.

Also, what new classes?