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Grimoire gameplay and hints thread

Discussion in 'Golden Era Games' started by JarlFrank, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

    Lady_Retard
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    Ninjitsu is just like in Wizardry 7: you hide for one round and attack "from the shadows" in the next, increasing damage (and probably accuracy as well). In Wizardry 7, it was useful to "hide" your weaker characters in large fights and let them cast spells while staying hidden. It is kind of similar in Grimoire, though I used it much less often.
     
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  2. Piotrovitz Learned

    Piotrovitz
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    Okay, two more:

    1. Is lethal blow working for unarmed attack at higher levels?
    2. When doing excessive multiclassing for melee types, isn't it more beneficial to end on some basic class with low xp requirements, i.e warrior, and not pirate or assassin?

    I've started with my Naga as assassin to build up skill points quickly, since the race incentive, but for other classess is it really worth it? What's the benefit of having pirate or templar as a final class? Do they get some class specific items etc?

    Anyway, I'm thinking about restarting the game with 7 party members only, to have room for NPC. OTOH, I've heard that NPCs are mostly OPd and I'm not really sure if there's any benefit for taking them (special quests, interactions at certain locations etc etc). 8 man party was already OPd as fuck (at least at the point which I've reach on my first run, i.e Samhain/Uluk Mining company).
     
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  3. Butter Arcane

    Butter
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    As a general rule, you want to multiclass from low attribute requirements to high attribute requirements, so that you're steadily accumulating points across all your level-ups. Including a prestige class in your multi progression and not ending on it results in a lot of lost attribute points after you change from say Assassin (265 total req) to Warrior (90 total req).
     
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  4. Piotrovitz Learned

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    Yeah, that makes sense - so actually starting as naga assassin is a bit counterproductive - better to build her as a warrior/berserker>ranger>thief and finally land on assassin.

    The large skill points incentive that naga assassin is receiving had got me to create one, but it's true that in the long run it will be crippling - like you said, huge stat loss when changing to basic class. The only downside of not starting as an assassin would be the lack of lethal poisoned dagger, which my ranger uses, but I guess I can live with that, given the game is not that hard.

    That settles it I think - I'm starting again. The only question is whether I should left the 8th slot open for NPCs and the only question is whether it's worth it.
    While being OPd, I heard that they cannot multiclass. Is it gimping or not - it purely depends on their OPdness.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  5. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    NPC's can be stronger than your chars when you recruit them, but they cannot multiclass. Which means that your multiclassing chars can become stronger than them. And there are many average or even shitty NPC's as well.
     
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  6. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    Actually, I just saw that this skill is called "Stealth" in Grimoire. Many classes can get it. Ninjitsu is an elite class skill for Jesters and Assassins for more unarmed damage.
     
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  7. Gunnar Savant

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    NPCs tend to have high stats across the board, which is useful if you need someone with a high oddball stat that none of your characters are developing.
     
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  8. Contagium Learned Patron

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    Getting the Fairie Ninja early on was paramount to my success.
     
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  9. Piotrovitz Learned

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    Yeah, the question really is are they adding something to the game (banters, specific interactions at certain locations etc etc), or are they just party fillers.

    Do they at least have unique portraits?
    The original ones are atrocious tbh.

    Again - it would be great if someone could confirm if lethal blow is working with unarmed.
    I vaguely remember that some dozens or so pages ago Lady said that it works, but it has to be >80, but my memory may be hazy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  10. Gunnar Savant

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  11. Piotrovitz Learned

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    Thanks Gunnar, this is what I was looking for.

    Did anyone ran with high lvl unarmed chars?
    Do they outdamage (lethal blow aside) regular, weapon wielding ones?
     
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  12. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    There is no char-specific banter or interactions once they are inside your party. But each NPC has a unique portrait.

    They seem to outperform other melee characters until at least the mid-game. The high-end weapons probably outperform them.
     
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  13. Piotrovitz Learned

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    Alright guys, another round:

    1. Is there some differentiation between front and back row? I thought it's 4/4 split, but my ranger in slot 5 is able to hit anything with his dagger just fine.
    What's the benefit of long range weapons (spears/staves etc)?

    2. Is archery worth it? What's the benefit of it, if there's no front/back rows?

    3. On some random late-game screenshots posted here and there, I see that most of the chars are using swords - are other weapon types are falling behind later on?
    I'd like to keep my assassins using daggers and metalsmith with hammer/mace, just for RP purposes. Does weapon type even matter if you have maxed out lethal blow?

    4. For casters multiclass career - how long it's reasonable to stay in one class? Until you get all the cool spells? i.e Sage seems to peak at lvl 8 with ressurrection, cleric at 12th with cure paralysis, but wizard otoh, has solar flare which requires lvl 18 - is it worth to stay wiz that long, or are those high lvl spells are just shit and you will cast deep freeze/other mid-lvl effective spells anyway?

    5. Drake armor limitations - is it crippling? I already have Naga in my team, and I know he cannot equip pants and boots. What types of armor Drakes cannot wear? I'm restarting again and want to make Drake metalsmith instead of burrower, just to have some racial diversity (lol).

    6. Stealth - is it connected somehow to backstabbing skill, or if you hide successfully it's enough to dish out extra dmg with next attack? Is backstabbing increasing dmg done from stealth? Is it even worth investing skill points in, considering one-shot lethal blows?

    7. Multiclassing - is it possible to return to the class you were already in? I'm thinking about wolfin cleric going through couple of casters classess, and then return to cleric and finish on templar. Is that possible?

    Guess that's it for now d: - )
     
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  14. Butter Arcane

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    1. I'm pretty sure it's 4 rows of 2, which affects whether different enemies can/will target you. However melee attacks seem to work regardless of what row your character is in.

    2. I'm not sure arrows are plentiful enough to justify using Archery. I'm also not sure if any bows get Lethal Blow.

    3. Lethal Blow and damage values matter most. I think you should invest some skill points into a variety of weapon skills at level-up and then rely on usage to max them out.

    4. IMO you should usually class change around 5-6. Leveling up gets really slow after that, and single classed characters may not even reach level 12 by the end of the game.

    5. Not sure.

    6. I think Backstabbing requires successfully hiding first, so you'd want both. Lethal Blow is strong enough that you can build your battle plans around it. 3-4 people with high Lethal Blow can get you through many fights with their regular attacks.

    7. It's not possible.
     
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  15. Piotrovitz Learned

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    Thanks for all the answers Butter :+)

    As for this one - if xp requirements grows exponentially to such degree, that attaining lvl 12 before finishing the game is impossible, then how the hell necromancer can get, say, Death Wish, which Grimoire wiki says it's a spell with required level of 21? Are those spells for people running with smaller parties, where attaining such high lvl is possible?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  16. Butter Arcane

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    I just loaded up an endgame save, and my highest level characters are a level 11 cleric (single class), level 11 pirate (multi), and level 13 sage (single class). You do get extra experience for using less than a full party, so it might be plausible to hit level 18 or 21 that way.
     
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  17. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    Strap Yourselves In
    Some bows do have Lethal Blow, but in general bows are kind of nerfed in both Grimoire and W7 due to having to find arrows. There is a place where you can buy a lot of them in the early mid-game, but in general there is not much that bows offer compared to "unlimited" melee attacks.

    As to weapon classes, the most powerful weapons in the game are Hammers, Swords and Axes (as well as one particular Bow). Spears, Blades and Lash & Chain max out slightly below them. Good Swords and Hammers are the most plentiful.

    One caveat: There aren't many Hammers with Lethal Blow apparently, while almost all Swords, Axes, Spears and Blades have it. Lash & Chain as well the Staffs have no Lethal Blow.

    One more while I am at it: There are also a few weapons for unarmed combat, sort of like brass knuckles. Not so easy to find though.

    Grimoire is not exactly super-balanced. ;) But you can find many of the high-level spells as spellbooks and learn them that way. Plus, the Arcanum and Eldritch spells can only be found in spellbooks and are among the most powerful ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  18. Gunnar Savant

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    You can buy levels to reach those high level spells. Are they worth it? Not really. Archery sucks, armor isn't that important, stealth and damage builds in general are inferior to lethal blow.
     
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  19. Piotrovitz Learned

    Piotrovitz
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    Here's another wave:

    1. Are bards worth it? I'm thinking of having one, just for some diversity and to avoid having only pure melees and pure casters.

    Assuming that in order to use instruments and not using exploits, you have to end on either bard or sage class - is that right? That would mean that multiclass career of Bard is rather short (i.e bard>cleric>maybe templar>sage). I'm used to always having a bard on my Wiz 8 playthroughs and there he/she is a powerhouse, able to cast spells from instruments on much higher level than my casters.

    2. Was V1 significantly more difficult? I've browsed some threads on steam forums and saw lots of people bitching about getting their asses kicked in briarpatch woods etc. Are those casuals running with some wonky, less than sub-optimal parties, or was the game really much harder? On my longest run (up to Samhain/Mines) I rarely had any troubles on Veteran - the only instant-reload cases for me were encounters with fire beetles in Crowl at the beginning, where one fireball kills half of my party. Note that I'm no expert on blobbers are have rage quit Wiz 7 due to it's difficulty several times now d: - (

    3. Are the puzzles more or less logical and easy to figure out without having to resort to walkthroughs?
    I admit that during my first run I had no idea that I have to get the key from Gorlo and go to the catacombs - probably missed some clue?
     
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  20. Gunnar Savant

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    Bards are useful throughout the game. You have to be Bard or Sage to use instruments.

    The gang in Briarpatch woods is usually where new players get killed, so that's why they bitch about it. The combat is actually not difficult, you remember correctly.

    There are puzzles of varying levels of difficulty, some are easy, some are super hard. You can use Charm and Mindread to gather clues on stuff from NPCs.
     
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  21. Dorateen Arcane

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    I missed that too, and found out you can force doors open with two strong characters. That was an awesome moment. Multiple solutions to overcoming obstacles.
     
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  22. Piotrovitz Learned

    Piotrovitz
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    Is there even a full walkthrough floating somewhere on the net?

    The best that I found is this one https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1102535369, but it covers only early/mid game.

    I always treat those as a last resort, but given the time constraints associated with adult life, sometimes I have to look up something on the net, especially with games with such cryptic puzzles like Wiz or Grimwah. I just don't want to get stuck somewhere and get burned out by spending hours of backtracking and looking for vague clues.
     
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  23. Gunnar Savant

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    I don't know if there exists a full and complete walkthrough, but what's out there will be enough that you can at least finish the game.
     
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  24. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    Strap Yourselves In
    Music instruments were actually the biggest exploit in V1, which made Bards overpowered. The music skill increased much faster and one of the instruments in particular could pretty much destroy everything. Other than that, the difficulty is the same now as in V1.

    Most puzzles are quite logical, with a few exceptions. There are less such cases than in Wizardry 7 though. You can look up the solutions to the hardest puzzles in the Grimoire wiki without spoiling anything else: http://grimoire.wiki/index.php/Puzzles

    There is a full walkthrough of the game on Steam as well: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1107532654
     
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  25. Piotrovitz Learned

    Piotrovitz
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    Ehh, I've cleared out the Samhain Gorge, got the royal seal and headed to Eyrie/Raptor Grotto now, and starting to feel burned out.

    Difficulty is wonky as hell. I'm playing on Veteran and so far I steamrolled everything - most of the fights I don't even have to cast any spells, the only exceptions were oreworms (to kill them asap, before they melt my weapons/armor) or mad miners (to speed up the fights, since non-lethal blow melee attacks often didn't have enough penetration. Now in Eyrie I bumped into those wasps that someone mentioned here earlier, and before any of my chars had chance to move, half of the party was instakilled.

    Cycling through professions is not as fun as I though it would be (didn't like it in Wiz 7 neither, though it's implemented better here) - I just ended up with bunch of melees with lethal blow and one or two weapon skills maxed out, plus casters with same repertoire of spells. I've completed, what, maybe 10-20% of the game and already feel like I have nothing to look up to when it comes to party development, other than putting points in speed on lvl ups.

    Random loot so far has been absurdly useless and repetitive - same rings pro-fire/frost, sandals, useless alchemy ingredients, books of identify or fire shield, dozens of keys etc.
    The only useful things that I've found so far were weapons in the garrison's armory, but those were hand placed.

    Other thing that bums me out are the useless skills like metallurgy, nature's lore, mephistics, ancient history and probably few more I cannot recall right now. Inspection and lockpicking also seem worthless, since high lvl knock knock opens and disarms every chest. Potential that has been wasted here (like crafting system, mixing more potent and actually useful poisons and potions) makes my heart ache. Everything so far boils down to instakilling things left and right with lethal blow, and occasionaly throw some spells in boss fight or on tougher mobs.
    This could have been mitigated by slowing down skill gains, so with each lvl up there is constant feeling of progress until end of the game, like in Wiz 8. And nerfing the fuck down lethal blow - it should be available only for prestige classes from mid to late game, not from the get go, where 5 mins after starting the game you can already buy poisoned dagger and broad axe that both have instakill properties.

    It makes me sad that I feel like I've already reached the peak of getting fun from combat/puzzles/exploration so early - I was hooked within first few minutes and loved everything about it, and now I'm just jaded and cannot see any reason to go on.

    Please save me from this abyss of ambivalence and tell me the gameplay gets better and it's worth to go on - I feel that when I abandon my current run, I will never do another one. And I don't want to do that, since I have a gut feeling that this is probably one of the last great turn based western blobbers. It has it's flaws, but I don't think we will get anything better soon : |
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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