Grimoire Thread

[mondblut]

Before one would review Grimoire, one should first play those rpgs from 90s. But I don't mean 'I played and finished them decades ago", I mean play them right now. Must first clean your mind of modern rpg, then you should review Grimoire.

Better yet, never allow "modern rpg" to corrupt your mind to begin with. Stay clean.

 

[DashiDMV]

I could take my cock out, use a sharpie to draw a face on it, put some funny hat on, and it will be a game. Even an RPG if I so desire. And somebody could even write a review of my penis's performance.

You could also put it in your mouth and hit record like you said you would but I guess we'll see that around the same time as the Scrooge nudes.

 

[Biggus]

All right, fuck it, I posted a review my damn self because no peace with the trannies etc etc

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198149497247/recommended/650670/

Uboat if you like/agree.

"Here's what you shouldn't do. Don't buy the game, poke around for 10 minutes, leave a bad review and refund it. Don't be that person."

Alas, people that do that don't read / understand your review and this kind of wise advice.

It's like those signs on higway "stop throwing your garbage out of your car while driving". People that do that cannot read. Or can read, but are too stupid to understand / follow the advice anyway.

I left one too, for God's sake :

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046092811/recommended/650670

Had already read your review. 100% agree. Sadly there is a cloud of butthurt losers ready to push down honest reviews. They'll move on in time, they're attention spans rival those of a mollusc.

I did my honest review by not doing one, because if I did, no matter how much I danced around the pros (plenty of them) and the cons (nuff said) I would have to honestly say, no, don't buy it, I cannot recommend it.
I don't really want to say that, because I really do want to say, yeah, buy it, have fun with it, but I can't, because that would not be honest, in my opinion anyway. That is the most positive contribution I can make to Grimoire at the moment. Hopefully, that will change, but...

I 'honestly' think that a decent percentage of the early quit brigade, did so because they very quickly realised that the horrid thing that is the Grimoire GUI would never allow them to enjoy the game. The GUI isn't everything, but it is the first thing you see, and Grimoire's GUI is a disaster. Whether they were too millenial to figure it out, or just couldn't be bothered isn't the issue. It is a diabolical mess, even if you do know how to use it.

 

[gestalt11]

Smart move on the $40 price tag tho. Otherwise a lot of people would've bought this game on cheap and left a myriad of "wtf is this shit kys" negative reviews. The Steam rating would've been sub 50% for all we know.

But, at this price, it's mostly only the devoted old school RPG fans and people who've done their research who are buying the game and thus leaving mostly positive reviews. Still, the game's only 1% away from falling into "mixed".

78 negative reviews. 41 with less than 2 hours played. 34 with less than 1 hour played. 21 with less than 30 minutes played. 9 with less than 12 minutes played.

A very large chunk of the negative reviews were by people who only bought the game with the sole purpose of writing a negative review and then refunding it.

Plus, the backer reviews do not get counted in the percentage, since they are "free" keys.

Remove the reviews of people who didn't actually play the game and add in the backer reviews and the percentage of positive reviews goes to 89%.

No doubt you are right with some of these, but I reckon a fair chunk just couldn't get past the disaster that the GUI is. I like to play games, not fight with GUIs. It probably isn't a coincidence that the GUI gets a bagging in most reviews that go into reasons.

The UI is cretainly cumbersome at first but once you figure out a few right clicks its perfectly usable except for the shitty shitty party inventory. The GUI is non-standard but it not actually bad to use for the most part. It just shows in general that "reviewers" suck ass and actually can't figure anything out for themselves for the most part.

 

[gestalt11]

Yooka-Laylee reviews were split between two camps - those who wanted a faithful recreation of 90s platformers (warts and all), and those who wanted an updated modernised adaption. Judging it by either criteria made sense to me, but Grimoire isn't merely modelled after a 90s game. It IS a 90s game. How do you review an artefact? It's like what if a previously undiscovered 1920s movie was tidied up and released in cinemas today, only for the movie reviewers to snipe it with disparaging remarks about outdated cinematography and sound design? My initial reaction is that those reviewers would look like goddamn fools.

We're experiencing a p big retro craze wave at the moment, not in small part due to many indie developers using low-res/low-poly graphics to save money. How is Cleve's game any different from that?

Take a look at Sonic Mania, for example. They even made all the assets with Sega Saturn's hardware limitations in my mind, while the actual gameplay mechanics are based on the Megadrive games. So, the whole thing is early to mid 90's. Old af. Yet it's getting rave reviews now that it's out.

Ultimately, a game is just a game. I could take my cock out, use a sharpie to draw a face on it, put some funny hat on, and it will be a game. Even an RPG if I so desire. And somebody could even write a review of my penis's performance. Everything could and should be judged, maybe it's time to stop handling Grimoire with kids gloves.

I am pretty sure Fall of the Dungeon Guardians was made by one dude in about 3 years of coding and 3 years of design and honestly its considerably more accomplished than Grimoire in many ways. And its not small content wise either. Although it too had real UI issues (not on grimoire level) at initial release.

 

[Biggus]

Can't help but think the sudden brick wall in the updates is because being forced to produce a manual has forced Cleve to realise just how many things didn't actually work as intended.

Smart move on the $40 price tag tho. Otherwise a lot of people would've bought this game on cheap and left a myriad of "wtf is this shit kys" negative reviews. The Steam rating would've been sub 50% for all we know.

But, at this price, it's mostly only the devoted old school RPG fans and people who've done their research who are buying the game and thus leaving mostly positive reviews. Still, the game's only 1% away from falling into "mixed".

78 negative reviews. 41 with less than 2 hours played. 34 with less than 1 hour played. 21 with less than 30 minutes played. 9 with less than 12 minutes played.

A very large chunk of the negative reviews were by people who only bought the game with the sole purpose of writing a negative review and then refunding it.

Plus, the backer reviews do not get counted in the percentage, since they are "free" keys.

Remove the reviews of people who didn't actually play the game and add in the backer reviews and the percentage of positive reviews goes to 89%.

No doubt you are right with some of these, but I reckon a fair chunk just couldn't get past the disaster that the GUI is. I like to play games, not fight with GUIs. It probably isn't a coincidence that the GUI gets a bagging in most reviews that go into reasons.

The UI is cretainly cumbersome at first but once you figure out a few right clicks its perfectly usable except for the shitty shitty party inventory. The GUI is non-standard but it not actually bad to use for the most part. It just shows in general that "reviewers" suck ass and actually can't figure anything out for themselves for the most part.

The GUI is cumbersome AND shit. It is inconsistent, unintuitive, overly difficult, overly clicky. It cannot do even the simplest of things.

What is it about the fanboys that assume that because someone is critcial, they are clowns and can't figure things out? That is almost like saying, look at me, I am smart, I figured it out, you don't like it, therefore you are dumb, and ner ner. FFS, it is shit by any measure you want to apply to it. Why do you think every pro review says it is shit? They said it, not because of some global freaking conspiracy, they say it because an assclown can see it.

It was shit in the 90s FFS, in a time when shit GUIs were the norm rather than the exception, but when it takes the time tunnel to 2017, it is beyond shit. Stop pretending that it is ok, because it isn't.

 

[gestalt11]

Can't help but think the sudden brick wall in the updates is because being forced to produce a manual has forced Cleve to realise just how many things didn't actually work as intended.

Smart move on the $40 price tag tho. Otherwise a lot of people would've bought this game on cheap and left a myriad of "wtf is this shit kys" negative reviews. The Steam rating would've been sub 50% for all we know.

But, at this price, it's mostly only the devoted old school RPG fans and people who've done their research who are buying the game and thus leaving mostly positive reviews. Still, the game's only 1% away from falling into "mixed".

78 negative reviews. 41 with less than 2 hours played. 34 with less than 1 hour played. 21 with less than 30 minutes played. 9 with less than 12 minutes played.

A very large chunk of the negative reviews were by people who only bought the game with the sole purpose of writing a negative review and then refunding it.

Plus, the backer reviews do not get counted in the percentage, since they are "free" keys.

Remove the reviews of people who didn't actually play the game and add in the backer reviews and the percentage of positive reviews goes to 89%.

No doubt you are right with some of these, but I reckon a fair chunk just couldn't get past the disaster that the GUI is. I like to play games, not fight with GUIs. It probably isn't a coincidence that the GUI gets a bagging in most reviews that go into reasons.

The UI is cretainly cumbersome at first but once you figure out a few right clicks its perfectly usable except for the shitty shitty party inventory. The GUI is non-standard but it not actually bad to use for the most part. It just shows in general that "reviewers" suck ass and actually can't figure anything out for themselves for the most part.

The GUI is cumbersome AND shit. It is inconsistent, unintuitive, overly difficult, overly clicky. It cannot do even the simplest of things.

What is it about the fanboys that assume that because someone is critcial, they are clowns and can't figure things out? That is almost like saying, look at me, I am smart, I figured it out, you don't like it, therefore you are dumb, and ner ner. FFS, it is shit by any measure you want to apply to it. Why do you think every pro review says it is shit? They said it, not because of some global freaking conspiracy, they say it because an assclown can see it.

It was shit in the 90s FFS, in a time when shit GUIs were the norm rather than the exception, but when it takes the time tunnel to 2017, it is beyond shit. Stop pretending that it is ok, because it isn't.

Yes the UI is bad. But its also usable once you do a little bit of due diligence. I don't expect a normal consumer to do that, but for a reviewer if you can't be assed to do even the small amount of due diligence of figuring out how to right click the action button so you get a context menu and don't have to click through things (which was obviously a dumb idea UI-wise) then you just plain fucking suck as a reviewer because you clearly don't have what it takes to figure anything out about the game and therefore have no business trying to write a pieces that analyzes.

Yes the UI sucks. And yes judging a game solely by the UI is shallow and shows no perspicaciousness which is the entire point of a real review. But then again assuming that I am a fanboy of a game I have obviously criticized is par for that course right there. Shallow and presumptive.

 

[Lady_Error]

The UI is cretainly cumbersome at first but once you figure out a few right clicks its perfectly usable except for the shitty shitty party inventory.

I don't know what's so difficult to figure out about the UI, other than the right clicks for actions and maybe how to access inventory vs character screen. What's so shitty about the inventory itself?

 

[PEACH]

I don't know, with some additional hotkeys it would be fine by me save for the inventory which really has no reason to function as it does.

Maybe I've just put enough time into it where it doesn't phase me anymore but while I can see exactly what people hate about it / why they call it shit I still feel comfortable using it regardless and have since the first two or three hours.

If UI is the reason for someone dropping the game it's one of the worst reasons I can think of, and i can think of plenty. Sure it's not the sleekest thing ever, but for the most part it serves its function on a rudimentary level and really- what did you expect going in by now? If the aforementioned problems were fixed and the manual existed to convey the information it lacks I'd probably have no issue with it.

 

[Tigranes]

Inventory sucks for obvious reasons - fuckton of scrolling to get anything done.
Lack of mouse scroll sucks, especially in later game journal and the like.
No hotkeys for things like spells.
Right click to show item properties in a larger screen would have made sense.

Other than that, generally it looks and feels fine after a while.

 

[Lady_Error]

Okay, I thought you meant the inventory screen of the characters . The party inventory is much better now with the fast scrolling and the advantage of Grimoire/Lands of Lore party inventory is that you always have access to it from the main screen, instead of having to go to the inventory screen of a character.

If there was an option to expand the inventory and see all items at the same time, that would make it much better.

 

[Biggus]

lol, it's like some weird Blakemoreesque dream.

"The GUI is fine", then later in the same sentence, "but it could be improved, if you fixed... hotkeys, inventory, properites, larger screen, contextual menus, tooltips, RMB..."

Which is it guys, ok, or shit? Can't be both.

The only way to improve it is to knock it down and start again.
If you need evidence of that, look at the 'fix' (which I admit is an improvement, but not a solution) to the inventory. Add two arrows, lose two slots. Yup, design awards for sure for that piece of genius

Anyway, I think the GUI is least of the problems at the moment. Making the game match the manual, or is it making the manual match the game, is probably the biggest hurdle for now.

"now, let's see, FEL, that does... consults notes, consults code, ah yes, DEV influences the... umm, no wait, it er. hmmm"

 

[jfunk]

Turning off random encounters unless I was a hair's breadth away from leveling up helped alleviate the problem of unrewarding combat. Not that it was "unbalanced" and I couldn't bear it any longer... but why should I endure these combats to get 200xp when I need 50k more to level up?

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Lady_Error]

"The GUI is fine", then later in the same sentence, "but it could be improved, if you fixed... hotkeys, inventory, properites, larger screen, contextual menus, tooltips, RMB..."

Which is it guys, ok, or shit? Can't be both.

UI is fine, but can be improved. Can be improved =/= it's shit.

The only way to improve it is to knock it down and start again.

No.

Anyway, I think the GUI is least of the problems at the moment. Making the game match the manual, or is it making the manual match the game, is probably the biggest hurdle for now.

Or you're probably just talking out of your ass.

 

[jfunk]

The one thing that really bugs me, and I realize it's common in games like this, is that you can't target individual critters. So if I Charm / Sleep one critter, my characters still seem to pick targets randomly and often strike them, thus waking them up or breaking the Charm (which someone said will rarely happen). Obviously if there's only one critter in that row, fine, but otherwise, it would be nice to be able to target specific critters in melee range ala MM-X which would add significantly to the tactical layer. Of course that would make combat easier, but that could be mitigated in other ways.

Or maybe you should develop your party around that traditional for blobbers gameplay element instead of crying that it should be remade in more casual fashion? Like, um, I don't know, making sure those who charm/sleep act after those who strike by virtue of having lower Speed?

Thank you. These thoughts are along the "no RNG" bullshit. When in a battle involving 15+ combatants, you can't necessarily choose to stab THAT particular bug. You gotta fight the target that presents itself. So many people miss concept around the phased combat system. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it was a beautiful and unique approach to simulating the chaos of battle in a turn based environment. It's still my favorite today. That may be 1992 nostalgia talking, but I don't care.

I've only put 30 hours into Grimoire so far, because it's all the hours I have to spare. But so far I have loved every one of them and it's taken me straight back to my school years playing Wizardry. So many of the complaints I see are about the general state of gaming at the time. I understand why people may not have patience for that now, and I actually DON'T in normal circumstances due to limited time. But I feel like a kid again playing this game. It's everything I hoped it would be, flaws and all. And I'm looking forward to rerolling again for the 20th time after V2. If classics were ever held to the standards Grimoire is being held to they never would have been classics to begin with.

Cleve, keep grinding. I've paid you more money for this game than I ever have any game ever (and I paid $86.19 for Phantasy Star II with tax) yet I feel like I haven't paid enough.

This post written by a lifelong gamer that played Scuba Venture on a PCjr and also has 387 hours in Rocket League.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Hey Biggus, I'll refund your $40 if you fuck off out of here.

 

[Biggus]

"The GUI is fine", then later in the same sentence, "but it could be improved, if you fixed... hotkeys, inventory, properites, larger screen, contextual menus, tooltips, RMB..."

Which is it guys, ok, or shit? Can't be both.

UI is fine, but can be improved. Can be improved =/= it's shit.

The only way to improve it is to knock it down and start again.

No.

Anyway, I think the GUI is least of the problems at the moment. Making the game match the manual, or is it making the manual match the game, is probably the biggest hurdle for now.

Or you're probably just talking out of your ass.

Is that Mrs Dunning, or Mrs Kruger I am talking to?

If you can't see how broken it is, then nothing I say will convince you that you are wrong.

I don't think that the fanboys actually believe their own words, I just think that they are such fanboys that anyone who DARES to raise anything constructively critical, is vilified . They shoot themselves in the foot, and contradict themselves. They dream up conspiracy theories to explain why Grimoire hasn't sold the 360,000 copies yet. (Must be the missing DRM!)

Have at it. I couldn't care less, I have a GUI to do battle with

 

[Grauken]

Broken implies it stops you from playing, which it doesn't. It's cumbersome early on, but once you've figured it out, it becomes second nature. You might just have a low threshold for these kind of things, but not all players are made equal

 

[Tarrant]

For the past 2 pages of posts, Lady Error has been using his alternate "rpgdude19" to rate literally any negative comments about the game as retarded or shit, and has used the alternate to agree with his own posts.

That's par for the course... but then he used his alt to *bro fist* himself a few posts back and I just lost it. So damn funny.

 

[Viata]

For the past 2 pages of posts, Lady Error has been using his alternate "rpgdude19" to rate literally any negative comments about the game as retarded or shit, and has used the alternate to agree with his own posts.

That's par for the course... but then he used his alt to *bro fist* himself a few posts back and I just lost it. So damn funny.

Let me tell you a secret:

Spoiler

They are not the same person.

 

[Tigranes]

We do know that you are drog tho

 

[buru5]

Where's the video

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

"The GUI is fine", then later in the same sentence, "but it could be improved, if you fixed... hotkeys, inventory, properites, larger screen, contextual menus, tooltips, RMB..."

Which is it guys, ok, or shit? Can't be both.

UI is fine, but can be improved. Can be improved =/= it's shit.

The only way to improve it is to knock it down and start again.

No.

Anyway, I think the GUI is least of the problems at the moment. Making the game match the manual, or is it making the manual match the game, is probably the biggest hurdle for now.

Or you're probably just talking out of your ass.

Is that Mrs Dunning, or Mrs Kruger I am talking to?

If you can't see how broken it is, then nothing I say will convince you that you are wrong.

I don't think that the fanboys actually believe their own words, I just think that they are such fanboys that anyone who DARES to raise anything constructively critical, is vilified . They shoot themselves in the foot, and contradict themselves. They dream up conspiracy theories to explain why Grimoire hasn't sold the 360,000 copies yet. (Must be the missing DRM!)

Have at it. I couldn't care less, I have a GUI to do battle with

You really are the greatest loser in human history, Phil. God has stopped to reconsider human biology after he has seen how far it can go astray in something like you. If the Australian government had not been giving you pity jobs for the last thirty years you'd be dead in an alleyway of starvation a long time ago. Anybody ever wonders why these people got deported from Britain, look at Phil Moore. Not wanted in anybody's living space anywhere. Your genetics amount to a blast of chromosomal skidmarks in a pair of sodden underwear stuck to a wall. You should be thankful the British had mercy, earlier cultures stick people like you out on ice floes.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

The UI is cretainly cumbersome at first but once you figure out a few right clicks its perfectly usable except for the shitty shitty party inventory.

I don't know what's so difficult to figure out about the UI, other than the right clicks for actions and maybe how to access inventory vs character screen. What's so shitty about the inventory itself?

The UI is a whole different ballgame for people who have the upper body strength of 8 year old girls. A couple clicks here, a couple mouse movements there and they are exhausted, heaving their sunken chests and sallow skinned vulture frames in a heap, puffing and out of breath, desperate for any relief from this grueling hardship. They've barely got enough strength to play spacebar and infinite runner games as it is, Grimoire is way out of their league. Their poisoned, unhealthy bodies cannot cope with anything more difficult than clicking giant red buttons in the middle of the screen reading "WIN." Their fragile psyches can't handle any game unless it is scaled such that even retards like themselves could win at it.

Grimoire is a Darwinian arena and we mostly hear from the narrow hipped popamole scarecrow bone rack millennial kids who end up discarded by the incline super train, lying softly alongside the tracks after they have been bum-hurled over the side to their slow and painful deaths rasping in the high oxygen atmosphere left behind by the mighty locomotive of win and excellence.

 

[Biggus]

"The GUI is fine", then later in the same sentence, "but it could be improved, if you fixed... hotkeys, inventory, properites, larger screen, contextual menus, tooltips, RMB..."

Which is it guys, ok, or shit? Can't be both.

UI is fine, but can be improved. Can be improved =/= it's shit.

The only way to improve it is to knock it down and start again.

No.

Anyway, I think the GUI is least of the problems at the moment. Making the game match the manual, or is it making the manual match the game, is probably the biggest hurdle for now.

Or you're probably just talking out of your ass.

Is that Mrs Dunning, or Mrs Kruger I am talking to?

If you can't see how broken it is, then nothing I say will convince you that you are wrong.

I don't think that the fanboys actually believe their own words, I just think that they are such fanboys that anyone who DARES to raise anything constructively critical, is vilified . They shoot themselves in the foot, and contradict themselves. They dream up conspiracy theories to explain why Grimoire hasn't sold the 360,000 copies yet. (Must be the missing DRM!)

Have at it. I couldn't care less, I have a GUI to do battle with

You really are the greatest loser in human history, Phil. God has stopped to reconsider human biology after he has seen how far it can go astray in something like you. If the Australian government had not been giving you pity jobs for the last thirty years you'd be dead in an alleyway of starvation a long time ago. Anybody ever wonders why these people got deported from Britain, look at Phil Moore. Not wanted in anybody's living space anywhere. Your genetics amount to a blast of chromosomal skidmarks in a pair of sodden underwear stuck to a wall. You should be thankful the British had mercy, earlier cultures stick people like you out on ice floes.

Phil? Don't think so old bean.