Solanacean
Educated
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2017
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- 42
I hate to say this, but I believe there's a big fat problem with Grimoire's rendering code: it doesn't seem to be thread-safe at all.
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Grimoire Thread
- Thread starter LESS T_T
- Start date
Dorateen
Arcane
On this second anniversary of Grimoire Release Day, I wanted to once more praise the quality of the art used for the area transitions. Each screen is atmospheric and evocative of what the party is about to encounter. These images have never failed, not once, to color the tone for every new location.
Breaking Ahriman's hold on Kublai Axis and restoring the Khan Raji to power was one of the greatest triumphs I've enjoyed in any computer role-playing game.
Breaking Ahriman's hold on Kublai Axis and restoring the Khan Raji to power was one of the greatest triumphs I've enjoyed in any computer role-playing game.
luj1
You're all shills
What happened to Shams? Is he still around?
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2012
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- 1,879,250
Yes, happy birthday to Grimoire! It's now a two year old Golden Baby (after a 20 years pregnancy)
- Joined
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And to celebrate the 2nd anniversary, Grimoire is now the 22nd best RPG of all time according to the Codex. Not bad for a one-man project competing with decades of AA and AAA titles.
The only blobber that ranked somewhat higher is Wizardry 8 at #20, while Grimoire overtook its spiritual origin Wizardry 7, which is at #29.
The only blobber that ranked somewhat higher is Wizardry 8 at #20, while Grimoire overtook its spiritual origin Wizardry 7, which is at #29.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2012
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- 1,879,250
Yay, a new title screen for a new year. Some traditions should always continue...
luj1
You're all shills
Logged in after more than a year and have some questions about game options...
Has anyone played with wandering monsters on Onslaught?
Also, how important are Journal hints? Has anyone tried turning them off for increased EXP?
What are adaptive Critical item lock and Tablet robbers?
Thx
Has anyone played with wandering monsters on Onslaught?
Also, how important are Journal hints? Has anyone tried turning them off for increased EXP?
What are adaptive Critical item lock and Tablet robbers?
Thx
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I have. difficult at the beginning and you have to rest a lot. but you get tons of xp and it all gets pretty easy, quickly.
I played V1 with the default difficulty and had more problems tbh. "onslaught" is kind of the grinding equivalent, but I don't mind since combat is the most fun and important aspect for me anyway and with that setting you pretty much have a combat encounter per tile.
note that when you're resting it's very likely that an encounter will interrupt the resting action and that powerful enemies could surprise your party, especially when some of them are still sleeping. therefore I'd recommend setting the wandering monsters to "never" in the starting area, whenever you rest. and save each time before resting, if you leave the setting on "onslaught".
Gunnar
Arbiter
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- 819
Critical item lock prevents you from being able to discard quest items. Tablet robbers will make it so that the tablets may be gone from their fixed locations when you get there.
You can always get the stolen tablets from the White Owl near the end of the game.
Dorateen
Arcane
Adaptive Critical Item Lock allows you to drop inventory items that are flagged as "critical". By default, I believe, this is on so that you don't accidentally drop on the ground something that is needed to progress. But being able to discard these items once you are done with them is important for making room in the inventory. You can toggle this option from the menu any time during the game.
Tablet robbing was a feature added in one of the later updates that would increase the chance of NPCs stealing the plot specific tablets before the party reached them. However, I think I was too far into the game to see this working in action. The option in the menu is to disable this completely, so you don't have to worry about missing tablets.
I have suspected that the journal hints option has to do with when you Super ID critical items, there is often additional text in their journal entry giving a clue about its use. I would say the puzzles in Grimoire are difficult enough to unravel, that leaving this option on is worth it.
very very nice, just like the roaming NPCs in Wizardry 7 that take main quest relevant items if you're not fast enough. I didn't even know that such a feature exists in Grimoire. Kudos, Cleve.
Voids
Augur
I do, the extra xp makes it worth it. You might even find yourself up feeling a little under leveled if you don't.
luj1
You're all shills
Thanks, for the moment I forgot that all options are toggleable. Guess I'll play around with them
I am thinking about Onslaught + No journal hints for a massive EXP boost. I just like fast progression in RPGs (you could reach like lvl 30 in earlier version of Grimoire IIRC)
Gunnar
Arbiter
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The amount of XP needed for levelups grows with each level and becomes so large that you will stop progressing at some point if you remain a single class. You should consider planning multiclass routes for your characters, they will be much stronger and its more fun. Lots of good advice for that in the hint thread.
luj1
You're all shills
Yeah I found this post of yours Gunnar and had some questions
Why did you say it's "optimal"?
Can the cycle be shorter?
At which levels you do the switch?
Why did you say it's "optimal"?
Can the cycle be shorter?
At which levels you do the switch?
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Gunnar
Arbiter
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Optimal in the sense that you could gather the highest number of classes before reaching the class you want. I don't actually recommend doing that for all of them this since you don't want to be spending all your time levelling through classes, only to arrive at your final class at the very end of the game. For example if you want a THAU you could start somewhere around BAR, CLE or SAG. It also matters what level you class change - if you class change at a lower level, say 5 or 6, then you can have more classes and it wont take so long to get through them all because you can get to level 5 rapidly. If you class change at 8 or 9, then you want to plan for fewer class changes because it will take longer. I found the characters I made that had about 5 classes worked well. There are some classes, like NEC for example that can work well as single classes (because he needs to reach as high a level as possible to get high level spells).
luj1
You're all shills
So I should choose either 3 classes w/ 9 levels each or 5 classes w/ 5 levels each? Something like that?
Gunnar
Arbiter
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Right, you want to hit that sweet spot. It also matters what race and class you take because you might need a certain number of attribute points to get to the next class. You should check the wiki and plan the characters out, or you could wind up stuck in one class unable to progress to the next because you lack the attribute points.
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Since the Grimoire Wiki is down, here is the multi-classing information from there:
Multi-Classing
You can change class after Level 4 (right click on the picture of the character and select "change profession"), if you have the attributes required for the class. Each class has only a few classes it can change to.
After you change your class, your attributes reset to the racial stats and the required stats of the new class (whichever is higher). XP required to level up is increased by 25% for your new class.
Skills, HP, Mana and VIT are kept. If you don't spend attribute points they are also kept, same with spells.
Outgoing class changes allowed:
Spells available to learn on level-up are based ONLY on your current class. The list of spells available do not transfer between classes. E.g., if you are a level 10 cleric and multiclass into templar, you do not get spell picks for your first two templar levels, and when you start learning spells from the Cleric list at templar level 3, you only get the spells available that a level 3 templar (level 1 Cleric) would get.
Multiclassing Careers by Race
The numbers in brackets (0p, etc.) are the attribute points needed for that race to change to that class (see the full table here). Saving the extra attribute points on levelup is necessary to change into classes with higher attribute requirements. Note: If you go through 8 Levels before changing class, you will get 8-48 extra attribute points per class which can be saved for more difficult class changes.
WOLFIN
The Wolfin have the fastest mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are low (only resistance to COLD is 25, everything else is 10 or 0).
Wolfin Ranger (+60% bonus multiplier) to Assassin or Pirate:
DRAKE
The Drakes have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are high. With a Metalsmith their resistances increase 55% too: SYSTEM goes from 30 to 45, SORCERY 20 to 30, FIRE 50 to 75 (walk on lava), CAUSTIC(ACID) 20 to 30.
Drake Metalsmith (55% bonus multiplier) to Assassin or Pirate:
BARROWER
The Barrowers (Dwarves) have the fastest mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (TOXIC 20 and EARTH 25, everything else at 10).
Barrower Thaumaturge (30% bonus multiplier) to Jester:
RHATTU
The Rhattu have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (COLD 20, DEATH 15, TOXIC 15, CAUSTIC(ACID) 15, everything else at 10 or lower). With a Rhattu Assassin, all resistances increase by 80%.
Rhattu Assassin (80% bonus multiplier) to Spellcaster:
NAGA
The Naga have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (TOXIC 50, CAUSTIC(ACID) 40, everything else at 10 or lower). With a Naga Assassin, all resistances increase by 50%. NOTE: Naga cannot equip any pants or boots.
Naga Assassin (50% bonus multiplier) to Spellcaster:
GENERAL INFORMATION ON MAXIMUM MULTICLASSING:
There are really only a few routes for 10 - 12 class changes:
1) Start with the Spellcasters, go through the Bard to the Melee Classes and end up as Assassin or Pirate.
2) Start with the Melee classes, become Assassin or Pirate (optional) and go through the Bard to the Spellcasters.
3) Start with the Spellcasters, go through the Cleric and Templar to the Melee Classes and end up with a Jester, Assassin or Pirate.
4) Theoretically, you could also start with the Spellcasters, go through the Bard to the Jester, then change to an Assassin and go through the Melee classes that way to end up with a Pirate. However, it requires collecting enough extra points for a Jester after just 5 class changes - this would require consistenly good rolls of extra attribute points on level up.
NEW: GET THROUGH 14 OUT OF 15 CLASSES AND END ON A JESTER
You can definitely get through 14 classes and still leave Jester for last. I arranged these, looking at stat minimums, to try and minimize the extra points needed to spend. In no case will you have to spend more bonus points to class change than you can get from random (non > save > scummed) level ups in the new class. This is what I used for Diamond Jack:
(Barrower) Thau > Wiz > Necro > Sage > Cleric > Templar > Warrior > Bers > Ranger > Pirate > Assassin > Thief > Bard > Jester
Cleric to Templar:
Ranger to Pirate is more costly but actually gets you three classes:
This is in fact a better deal than the time in Necromancer, which costs 20 bonus pts (in WIL) for just one class.
Basically, the free pts from level ups and stats needed by mutliple classes create some opportunities to chain stats together in efficient ways, if you look hard for 'em.
SOME SIMPLE BUILDS
Since many people are buying Grimoire for the first time today and will be building parties, I'll share some character ideas I had:
Open Hand Expert Assassin (ROW1)
Sword Templar (ROW2)
Hammer Alchemical Mage (ROW2)
They can all class change at low levels to rapidly reach their end classes, no grinding required. You must save attribute gains on levelups and distribute them only when you need to for class change, and then when you reach the final class.
You can change class after Level 4 (right click on the picture of the character and select "change profession"), if you have the attributes required for the class. Each class has only a few classes it can change to.
After you change your class, your attributes reset to the racial stats and the required stats of the new class (whichever is higher). XP required to level up is increased by 25% for your new class.
Skills, HP, Mana and VIT are kept. If you don't spend attribute points they are also kept, same with spells.
Outgoing class changes allowed:
- Warrior: Berserker, Pirate, Ranger
- Berserker: Warrior, Pirate, Ranger
- Ranger: Warrior, Thief, Assassin
- Thief: Bard, Pirate, Assassin
- Metalsmith: Warrior, Berserker, Pirate
- Wizard: Necromancer, Sage, Thaumaturge
- Thaumaturge: Necromancer, Sage, Wizard
- Necromancer: Sage, Wizard, Thaumaturge
- Sage: Cleric, Wizard, Thaumaturge
- Cleric: Bard, Sage, Templar
- Bard: Jester(!), Cleric, Sage
- Jester: Thief, Bard, Assassin
- Pirate: Thief, Berseker, Assassin
- Templar: Warrior, Cleric, Bard
- Assassin: Warrior, Thief, Berserker
- ASSASSIN: JESTER,PIRATE,RANGER,THIEF
- BARD: CLERIC,JESTER,TEMPLAR,THIEF
- BERSERKER: PIRATE,ASSASSIN,METALSMITH,WARRIOR
- CLERIC: BARD,SAGE,TEMPLAR
- JESTER: BARD
- METALSMITH: (NONE)
- NECROMANCER: THAUMATURGE,WIZARD
- PIRATE: BERSERKER,METALSMITH,THIEF,WARRIOR
- RANGER: BERSERKER,WARRIOR
- SAGE: BARD,CLERIC,NECROMANCER,THAUMATURGE,WIZARD
- TEMPLAR: CLERIC
- THAUMATURGE: NECROMANCER,SAGE,WIZARD
- THIEF: ASSASSIN,JESTER,PIRATE,RANGER
- WARRIOR: ASSASSIN,BERSERKER,METALSMITH,RANGER,TEMPLAR
- WIZARD: NECROMANCER,SAGE,THAUMATURGE
- Note: When you click on changing profession, you change to Level 1 of the new class immediately (and likely lose a lot of attribute points). But to get to Level 2 of the new class you still need to level up once in your old class first. After that you will level up very quickly, because above Level 2 the XP requirements are reset again.
- So it is best to wait until you are close to leveling up in your orginal class and then change the profession. That way you won't have the problem of having a Level 1 character with reduced stats for a long time.
- To get some of the premium classes (Jester, Pirate, Assassin, Templar) it makes sense to multiclass several times through different professions and save the extra attribute points each time - to finally use them for the Jester requirements, for example.
- You can class change upon reaching level 4 (not level 3, as stated in some of the guides).
- Changing classes does NOT affect your resistances, so if they were buffed by your class/race combo multiplier at character creation, that buff remains. As is well documented elsewhere, your attributes are reset to minimum for your new combo (but unused bonus pts are retained). Skills are not affected, nor are HP, Vitality, etc.
- Also, you cannot change back to a previous class.
- NPC's you recruit cannot multi-class. This means that in the beginning, many NPC's will be more powerful than your original characters, but after switching class a few times that difference should be more or less gone. Towards the end game, your original characters should be more powerful than NPC's, with a few exceptions (some NPC's such as Kroondegraf have very high resistances which are almost impossible to reach).
- You should make a plan on which classes you will change to and which class you want to arrive at (you cannot go back to a class you already used). Check the racial stats and the class requirements to see if it will require a lot of attribute points to change classes or not. Some classes, such as Saurians are very bad for multiclassing due to their very low numbers in some stats.
Spells available to learn on level-up are based ONLY on your current class. The list of spells available do not transfer between classes. E.g., if you are a level 10 cleric and multiclass into templar, you do not get spell picks for your first two templar levels, and when you start learning spells from the Cleric list at templar level 3, you only get the spells available that a level 3 templar (level 1 Cleric) would get.
Multiclassing Careers by Race
The numbers in brackets (0p, etc.) are the attribute points needed for that race to change to that class (see the full table here). Saving the extra attribute points on levelup is necessary to change into classes with higher attribute requirements. Note: If you go through 8 Levels before changing class, you will get 8-48 extra attribute points per class which can be saved for more difficult class changes.
WOLFIN
The Wolfin have the fastest mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are low (only resistance to COLD is 25, everything else is 10 or 0).
Wolfin Ranger (+60% bonus multiplier) to Assassin or Pirate:
- 4 class changes, the Melee career:
- RANGER(start) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(15p) > THIEF(0p) > ASSASSIN(60p) or PIRATE(60p)
- Only Melee classes, ends in a Prestige class, Lethal Blow starting with the Berserker
- Easy to do, since 4 class changes should be enough to collect the 60 extra attribute points for an Assassin or Pirate in the end.
- 75 points required or 75/4 = 19 extra points on average per class.
- 7 class changes, the short Magic career:
- RANGER(start) > THIEF(0p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(0p) > SAGE(25p) > WIZARD(0p) > THAUM(15p) > NECRO(50p)
- Mostly magic classes, no Prestige class, NO Lethal Blow
- Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- Easy to do, since only the Necro requires a larger amount of attribute points in the end.
- 125 points required or 125/7 = 18 extra points on average per class.
- 10-12 class changes, the long Magic career:
- RANGER(start) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(15p) > PIRATE(65p) > (ASSASSIN? or skip)> THIEF(0p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(0p) > (Templar? or skip) > SAGE(25p) > WIZARD(0p) > THAUM(15p) > NECRO(50p)
- Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 10 class changes, the superman career (ends in Assassin or Pirate):
- WIZARD(start) > THAUM(15p) > NECRO(50p) > SAGE(25p) > CLERIC(0p) > TEMPLAR(75p) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(15p) > RANGER(0p) > THIEF(0p) > ASSASSIN(60p) or PIRATE(65p)
- All magic classes and most melee classes, Lethal Blow, ends in a Prestige slass
- Considering that each level up will increase Mana, you may go through the Melee classes in the end, but still continue using the Wolfin as a Magic class.
- Easy to do, though requires more luck with getting enough extra attribute points for the Bard and Templar. The Necro can be skipped if you do not get enough points for him after one class change. This will also make it easier to have enough points for the Bard and Templar.
- 240 points required or 240/10 = 24 extra points on average per class.
- 11 class changes, the superman career (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(15p) > RANGER(0p) > ASSASSIN(60p) or PIRATE(65p) > THIEF(0p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(0p) > SAGE(25p) > WIZARD(0p) > THAUM(15p) > NECRO(50p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin or Pirate and has enough class changes after that to bring those skills up quickly.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- Easy to do, since there are 3 class changes to collect extra attribute points for the Assassin or Pirate and then 5 class changes to collect points for the Necro in the end.
- 265 points required or 265/11 = 24 extra points on average per class.
DRAKE
The Drakes have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are high. With a Metalsmith their resistances increase 55% too: SYSTEM goes from 30 to 45, SORCERY 20 to 30, FIRE 50 to 75 (walk on lava), CAUSTIC(ACID) 20 to 30.
Drake Metalsmith (55% bonus multiplier) to Assassin or Pirate:
- 4 class changes, the short Melee career with 55% multiplier bonus:
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(14p) > RANGER(25p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(65p)
- Only melee classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin or Pirate.
- Average to do: for the Assassin or Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points.
- 119 points required or 119/4 = 29 extra points on average per class.
- 11 class changes, the super > superman career with 55% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(14p) > RANGER(25p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(65p) > THIEF(18p) > BARD(40p) > CLERIC(30p) > SAGE(30p) > Wizard(15p) > THAUM(25p) > NECRO(35p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin or Pirate. Has many class changes after that to raise those skills quickly.
- Average to do: for the Assassin or Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Assassin or Pirate can be skipped.
- The magic classes will all require some luck in getting enough points for each class change. If the Drake gets stuck on a magic class, he can level up a few more times to get the missing extra attribute points and by then he will have already 6 > 9 class changes behind him, meaning a lot of HP, Mana and Skill Points (including a maxed out Lethal Blow).
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 287 points required or 287/11 = 26 extra points on average per class.
- 10 class changes, the superman career (ends in Assassin or Pirate):
- WIZARD(start) > THAUM(25p) > NECRO(35p) > SAGE(30p) > CLERIC(30p) > TEMPLAR(75p) > WARRIOR(0p) > BERSERK(15p) > RANGER(25p) > THIEF(18p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(65p)
- Most magic classes and most melee classes, Lethal Blow, ends in a Prestige slass
- Considering that each level up will increase Mana, you may go through the Melee classes in the end, but still continue using the Drake as a Magic class.
- Difficult to do, since many extra points may be required for the class changes.
- 320 points required or 320/10 = 32 extra points on average per class (meaning that with 8 levelups per class, you will need an average of 4 out of 6 extra attribute points on each levelup - in 11 classes!).
BARROWER
The Barrowers (Dwarves) have the fastest mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (TOXIC 20 and EARTH 25, everything else at 10).
Barrower Thaumaturge (30% bonus multiplier) to Jester:
- 11 class changes, the Jester non > plus > ultra career:
- THAUMATURGE(start) > WIZARD(0p) > NECRO(40p) > SAGE(25p) > CLERIC(10p) > TEMPLAR(65p) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(10p) > RANGER(0p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > JESTER(175p)
- You go through all but three classes (except Metalsmith, Pirate and Assassin)
- Easy to do, though requires more luck with getting enough extra attribute points for the Necro, Templar and of course Jester. The Necro can be skipped if you do not get enough points for him after one class change.
- 290 points required or 290/11 = 26 extra points on average per class.
- 10 class changes, the superman career:
- THAUMATURGE(start) > WIZARD(0p) > NECRO(40p) > SAGE(25p) > CLERIC(10p) > TEMPLAR(65p) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(10p) > RANGER(0p) > THIEF(20p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(75p)
- All magic classes and most melee classes, Lethal Blow, ends in a Prestige slass
- Considering that each level up will increase Mana, you may go through the Melee classes in the end, but still continue using the Barrower as a Magic class.
- Easy to do, though requires more luck with getting enough extra attribute points for the Necro and Templar. The Necro can be skipped if you do not get enough points for him after one class change.
- 240 points required or 240/10 = 24 extra points on average per class.
- 12 class changes, the Assassin > Jester career:
- THAUMATURGE(start) > WIZARD(0p) > NECRO(40p) > SAGE(25p) > CLERIC(10p) > TEMPLAR(65p) > WARRIOR(10p) > RANGER(0p) > BERSERK(10p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > JESTER(175p) > ASSASSIN(70p)
- You go through all but two classes (except Metalsmith and Pirate)
- Easy to do, though requires more luck with getting enough extra attribute points for the Necro, Templar and of course Jester. The Necro can be skipped. This is the same as the Jester career above, only that you change from Jester to Assassin in the end.
- Going from the Jester to Assassin is really optional and requires no extra points since the Jester has higher attributes.
- 11 class changes, the superman career with 40% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(10p) > RANGER(0p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(75p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(10p) > SAGE(25p) > Wizard(0p) > THAUM(10p) > NECRO(40p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin or Pirate. Has many class changes after that to raise those skills quickly.
- Easy to do: for the Assassin or Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Assassin or Pirate can be skipped.
- The magic classes will all require some luck in getting enough points for each class change.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 230 points required or 230/11 = 21 extra points on average per class.
- 7 > 8 class changes, the Lethal Blow Templar career with 40% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(10p) > RANGER(0p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(75p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(10p) > TEMPLAR(65p)
- Mostly melee classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Templar and Assassin or Pirate.
- Easy to do: for the Assassin or Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Assassin or Pirate can be skipped.
- The magic classes will all require some luck in getting enough points for each class change.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career).
- 220 points required or 220/8 = 28 extra points on average per class. Or if skipping the Assassin or Pirate: 150/7 = 21 extra points on average per class needed.
- 6 class changes, the Jester career with 40% multiplier bonus (ends in Jester):
- METALSMITH(start) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(10p) > RANGER(0p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > JESTER(175p)
- Only Melee classes.
- Difficult to do: You will need a lot of luck (or savescumming) to get on average 4 > 5 extra attribute points on each level up in 6 classes to get together the points for the Jester.
- 250 points required or 250/6 = 41 extra points on average per class.
- 10 class changes, the superman career with 25% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- BERSERK(start) > WARRIOR(10p) > RANGER(0p) > ASSASSIN(70p) or PIRATE(75p) > THIEF(20p) > BARD(35p) > CLERIC(10p) > SAGE(25p) > Wizard(0p) > THAUM(10p) > NECRO(40p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from and other special skills from Assassin or Pirate. Has many class changes after that to raise those skills quickly.
- Easy to do: for the Assassin or Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Assassin or Pirate can be skipped.
- The magic classes will all require some luck in getting enough points for each class change.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 220 points required or 230/10 = 22 extra points on average per class.
RHATTU
The Rhattu have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (COLD 20, DEATH 15, TOXIC 15, CAUSTIC(ACID) 15, everything else at 10 or lower). With a Rhattu Assassin, all resistances increase by 80%.
Rhattu Assassin (80% bonus multiplier) to Spellcaster:
- 11 class changes, the super > superman career with 80% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- ASSASSIN(start) > WARRIOR(15p) > BERSERK(25p) > RANGER(25p) > PIRATE(50p) > THIEF(0p) > BARD(45p) > CLERIC(30p) > SAGE(30p) > Wizard(10p) > THAUM(25p) > NECRO(50p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin and Pirate. Has many class changes after that to raise those skills quickly.
- Easy to do: for the Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Pirate can be skipped to collect the points for the Bard instead. Going from the Bard to Cleric should be easy, since the Bard has higher attributes, except DEV where the Rhattu needs to come up with just 10 points.
- The magic classes rely mostly on the same attributes, so that changes should be easy.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 305 points required or 305/11 = 27 extra points on average per class.
- 7 class changes, the Templar Melee career with 80% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- ASSASSIN(start) > WARRIOR(15p) > BERSERK(25p) > RANGER(25p) > THIEF(0p) > BARD(45p) > CLERIC(30p) > TEMPLAR(105p)
- Most melee classes and the Cleric Magic school (Templar keeps it in the end), gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin and Templar.
- Easy to do: for the Templar you have 6 class changes to collect the points. Going from the Bard to Cleric should be easy, since the Bard has higher attributes, except DEV where the Rhattu needs to come up with just 10 points. The Cleric will receive automatic increases in some of the high attributes the Templar needs (WIS and DEV), so it should be an easier class change than it looks (with extra saved points from previous classes).
- 245 points required or 245/7 = 35 extra points on average per class (though in practice it should be easier than that, see above).
NAGA
The Naga have average mana regeneration. Their natural resistances are average (TOXIC 50, CAUSTIC(ACID) 40, everything else at 10 or lower). With a Naga Assassin, all resistances increase by 50%. NOTE: Naga cannot equip any pants or boots.
Naga Assassin (50% bonus multiplier) to Spellcaster:
- 11 class changes, the super > superman career with 50% multiplier bonus (ends in Necro or another magic class):
- ASSASSIN(start) > WARRIOR(10p) > BERSERK(25p) > RANGER(20p) > PIRATE(55p) > THIEF(0p) > BARD(40p) > CLERIC(20p) > SAGE(25p) > Wizard(0p) > THAUM(15p) > NECRO(40p)
- Most melee classes and all magic classes, gets Lethal Blow from the start and other special skills from Assassin and Pirate. Has many class changes after that to raise those skills quickly.
- Easy to do: for the Pirate you have 3 class changes to collect the points. The Pirate can be skipped to collect the points for the Bard instead. Going from the Bard to Cleric should be easy, since the Bard has higher attributes, except DEV where the Naga needs to come up with just 5 points.
- The magic classes rely mostly on the same attributes, so that changes should be easy.
- Note that there are not many weapons for magic classes with the *LETHAL* feature (use assaying to see it). The Necromancers can use some lethal daggers (final class of that career). Note that the spellcaster you end up with won't be able to use heavy armor (except if you use the Cleric and even they are limited in armor).
- 250 points required or 250/11 = 23 extra points on average per class.
GENERAL INFORMATION ON MAXIMUM MULTICLASSING:
There are really only a few routes for 10 - 12 class changes:
1) Start with the Spellcasters, go through the Bard to the Melee Classes and end up as Assassin or Pirate.
2) Start with the Melee classes, become Assassin or Pirate (optional) and go through the Bard to the Spellcasters.
3) Start with the Spellcasters, go through the Cleric and Templar to the Melee Classes and end up with a Jester, Assassin or Pirate.
4) Theoretically, you could also start with the Spellcasters, go through the Bard to the Jester, then change to an Assassin and go through the Melee classes that way to end up with a Pirate. However, it requires collecting enough extra points for a Jester after just 5 class changes - this would require consistenly good rolls of extra attribute points on level up.
NEW: GET THROUGH 14 OUT OF 15 CLASSES AND END ON A JESTER
You can definitely get through 14 classes and still leave Jester for last. I arranged these, looking at stat minimums, to try and minimize the extra points needed to spend. In no case will you have to spend more bonus points to class change than you can get from random (non > save > scummed) level ups in the new class. This is what I used for Diamond Jack:
(Barrower) Thau > Wiz > Necro > Sage > Cleric > Templar > Warrior > Bers > Ranger > Pirate > Assassin > Thief > Bard > Jester
Cleric to Templar:
- 40 > 45 INT: automatic from cleric level ups
- 45 > 60 WIS: automatic from cleric level ups, usually by level 6, definitely by level 8 > 9
- 40 WIL: already at req
- 45 > 50 STR: needs 5 bonus pts
- 45 > 60 FEL: needs 15 bonus pts
- 45 > 65 DEV: potentially automatic from cleric level ups or needs a few bonus pts
Ranger to Pirate is more costly but actually gets you three classes:
- 40 > 55 WIL: ~10 pts likely free from ranger level ups, spend ~5 bonus
- 45 > 50 STR: spend 5 bonus
- 35 > 55 SPE: spend 20 bonus
- 35 > 60 AGI: spend 25 bonus
- 40 > 50 FEL: likely all free from ranger level ups
This is in fact a better deal than the time in Necromancer, which costs 20 bonus pts (in WIL) for just one class.
Basically, the free pts from level ups and stats needed by mutliple classes create some opportunities to chain stats together in efficient ways, if you look hard for 'em.
SOME SIMPLE BUILDS
Since many people are buying Grimoire for the first time today and will be building parties, I'll share some character ideas I had:
Open Hand Expert Assassin (ROW1)
- Drake MET->BER->RAN->THI->ASS
- Martial Skills: Shield, Backstabbing
- Physical Skills: Hand to Hand, Lethal Blow, Stealth, Iron Hands, Ninjitsu (learned from trainer)
- Mental Skills: invocation/incantation
Sword Templar (ROW2)
- Wolfin RAN->THI->BAR->CLE->TEM
- Martial Skills: Sword, Shield
- Physical Skills: Lethal Blow
- Mental Skills: Litany, Scribe/arcanum
Hammer Alchemical Mage (ROW2)
- Wolfin RAN->THI->BAR->SAG->THAU
- Martial Skills: Hammer, Shield
- Physical Skills: Lethal Blow
- Mental Skills: Alchemistry, Scribe/Arcanum, nature lore (optional, but dovetails with alchemistry)
They can all class change at low levels to rapidly reach their end classes, no grinding required. You must save attribute gains on levelups and distribute them only when you need to for class change, and then when you reach the final class.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2012
- Messages
- 1,879,250
The Grimoire Wiki texts are now all in this thread here in the subforum:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...re-copied-here-since-the-wiki-is-down.129093/
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...re-copied-here-since-the-wiki-is-down.129093/
Cleveland Mark Blakemore
Golden Era Games
I tried this on a very high resolution widescreen and it fixed the problem completely. Demm M$ progs why do I have to set a flag to tell the code to be aware there are discrepancies between DPI and screen resolution in pixels? Shouldn't that be the default?
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,169
GOLDEN ERA GAMES [developer] 17 hours ago
Originally posted by thewayward:
Cleve I see the golden baby and the winged Exemplar. Clever knight!
This is such an Easter Egg I never dreamed in a million years that anybody would ever realize I got the inspiration for both from the Salve Regina. Seriously. I was listening to it one night in 1996 and these phrases just stuck with me. It was like I was receiving a message from angels. I never imagined someone someday might find out where I got both from.
The music is very special. Very beautiful. Almost otherworldly.
I conceived of the Golden Baby as a cherub from another world who would just be in the game for the lulz and the fun, no real purpose other than to add a kind of "divine witness" to the proceedings.
Valky
Arcane
Is there a big difference in the different starting areas you can begin a playthrough in? Are they all reachable regardless later in the game?
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2012
- Messages
- 1,879,250
Some are very different, two open up different hidden areas later, one gives an NPC to resurrect whom you cannot get any other way, two give keys to reach some cool areas faster, etc.
Spoiler: http://grimoire.wiki/index.php/Beginners_Guide#Comparison_of_the_5_Starting_Areas
Spoiler: http://grimoire.wiki/index.php/Beginners_Guide#Comparison_of_the_5_Starting_Areas
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