Development Info Guido Henkel returns to cRPGs with Thorvalla?

[Kraszu]

Guido clarified over at crystals-dsa-foren.de that it will be a pc-centered game and that it will not be for mobile devices and the like. Quite remarkable considering that mobile gaming is what he does for a living now.

Most of us have to do filthy things for a living.

Guido Henkel ‏@GuidoHenkel
There is already quite a bit of discussion going on over at @RPGCodex among RPG fans about my new project, THORVALLA — http://ow.ly/faT6G
Details

Since Guido is very likely checking this thread, we might as well anticipate butthurtness and post here what he want to see.

For me... make it fully isometric





Without even knowing what game he will be pitching (especially the production aspects of it) it's too early to tell, but I have to wonder on how much he will be able to fund.
How big is Das Schwarze Auge in the 4th Reich anyway? Or better put, how big are the RoA games there?

Maybe I'm being a pessimist here, but asking more than $250k may not be wise.
One has to remember that the BaK guy, some months ago, went ahead and tried to size up his fanbase on how many could gather $500(?)... and there weren't enough of them to make the game happen (silly poll he made anyway it would have been better to ask on how many would pledge $15 or $20).


Now, this is a very rough comparison, but if you look at GOG's forum page for both series (BaK and RoA) you see they have about the same amount of activity. So maybe they have about the same fanbase size too.
It could also make a world of difference if he already has some working prototype to show

But almost nobody knew about it, it reminds me of the speculation that Wasteland could never get 900k$ based on how many people post on NMA, and rpgcodex forums, there is obviously much more people that are potentially interested.

It is hard to say how much is wise, on one hand it seems that getting less must be easier since less people need to pledge, but consider that for more money you could make a project that much more people could get excited about (and you will get much more media coverage) so paradoxically getting funding for 1.5mln$ game might be easier then getting funding for 250k$. I think that you can take some risk of that, if you ask for 1.5mln$, and you don't get it, then you can scale down the game, and ask for less for cheaper project month later.

As for timing, now might not be the best time after people had just pledged on few games, but again that is guessing.

 

[kaizoku]

There will always be new projects popping up, but if were him, I would wait until paycheck day because that is the best time for people to commit to the game instead of other things.

 

[kaizoku]

As with Planescape: Torment, the player will begin in Thorvalla alone and meet different people in the course of the game that can be included in the party.

I do not think I'm going to pose on the cover, but hey, that's all a long way off. Who knows ...
The game will have a completely new engine, as I have plans to create a completely new and "other" role-playing system that breaks with many of the traditional pen & paper conventions something.

 

[curry]

Let me guess, it's a another Kickstarter project begging for money?

 

[Brother None]

As with Planescape: Torment, the player will begin in Thorvalla alone and meet different people in the course of the game that can be included in the party.

I do not think I'm going to pose on the cover, but hey, that's all a long way off. Who knows ...
The game will have a completely new engine, as I have plans to create a completely new and "other" role-playing system that breaks with many of the traditional pen & paper conventions something.

Hmmm. That doesn't sound too good. I mean, breaking and innovating are cool and all but they've got to take into consideration budget and time constraints and experience. Henkel is plenty experienced, luckily. But still, for smaller-scale, lighter-budget games I'd generally look carefully at breaking convention because stuff works for a reason. Wasteland 2 and P:E will both do something interesting things, but generally small touches, light in scope, they're not looking to revolutionize, because they don't have the scope to, they're more focused on getting things right.

Building a new engine and create a completely new RPG system that breaks traditional P&P conventions...on a kickstarter budget? Well...if you say so.

 

[Murk]

The system part doesn't bother me, the engine part does. Then again, it may just be a revamped engine -- I'm not too technically savvy but from what I've read it seems that quite often the core code of an engine remains the same and some things are changed and touted as "a new engine". Regardless, this sounds pretty interesting and I'm hoping to see some cool things.

 

[kaizoku]

He did use the word "engine": http://www.crystals-dsa-foren.de/showthread.php?tid=3947&pid=112105#pid112105
But I don't know if he is referring to RPG engine/system or to game engine.

Interesting tweet https://twitter.com/GuidoHenkel/status/267888823990640640

I can tell already, I will have to word my responses VERY carefully when I talk about THORVALLA. People are very quick to make assumptions…

 

[Mother Russia]

Hmm, single pc generation and then recruiting others as you go along doesn't sound too attractive to me. Fucking Baldurs Gate mainstreaming this shitty trend.

But oh well, I am willing to give it a pass if the game is turnbased with deep char gen...

 

[Misconnected]

Sorry Mr. Henkel. I'd love to pitch in, but I've already spent as much money on other people's projects as I'm willing to this year. But hey, if it doesn't work out, do try again next year. Just.. Try before November, yeah?

 

[kaizoku]

Hmm, single pc generation and then recruiting others as you go along doesn't sound too attractive to me. Fucking Baldurs Gate mainstreaming this shitty trend.

But oh well, I am willing to give it a pass if the game is turnbased with deep char gen...

I never understood the whole butthurt with "I need to create all of my party characters according to all of my whims so that I can assemble the perfect power gaming party, otherwise I won't play the game".
Sure, that is nice, but that's not a game stopper for me.

Besides, maybe he'll add the possibility of creating your own party too, like PE did.

 

[Dorateen]

Hmm, single pc generation and then recruiting others as you go along doesn't sound too attractive to me. Fucking Baldurs Gate mainstreaming this shitty trend.

But oh well, I am willing to give it a pass if the game is turnbased with deep char gen...

I never understood the whole butthurt with "I need to create all of my party characters according to all of my whims so that I can assemble the perfect power gaming party, otherwise I won't play the game".

I'd expect this response on a biodrone forum, but not at the Codex, good sir. Party Creation is not inherently about making the most maxed out power-gaming party. If people want to do that, fine (how about that player choice, eh?) and if that is what you personally end up doing when given the opportunity to make your own characters, then you are projecting.

However, cRPG veterans know that the heritage of these types of games allowed the player to assemble his own roster of companions. This was to best simulate a group of friends gathering for adventure in PnP. A developer imposing its own "recruitable" or "joinable" NPCs is no substitution, despite their best efforts to write overbearing and sophmoric companion relationships. In other words, players will create their own backstory for their characters, which have more depth and intrinsic value than any RPG delevoper could ever manufacture.

Also, full party creation goes hand-in-hand with deep meaningful combat with consequences. If the player is forced to bring along the developer's pet NPCs, then combat will be inferior, as it has been since the biodrone mentality started the trend of watering down RPGs.

As for this particular title, if he wants to return to the roots of RoA, then that means full party creation. Otherwise, this will only be a shadow of the true RPG experience and I'll pass.

Onward, Grimoire and Chaos Chronicles!

 

[nealiios]

Howdy all. Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. Guido recently asked me to come aboard his Thorvalla project, and I was more than happy to accept. We've narrowly missed the opportunity to work with each at least a couple of times over the past twenty years, and Guido has worked on several of the titles of which I've been a very big fan. As for who I am, I was co-lead designer and writer on another "traditional" RPG called Betrayal at Krondor which was pretty well known for its story. I also worked on a few other titles you may have heard of including Might & Magic III: Isles of Terra, Planet's Edge, Champions of Norrath, Lords of Everquest, and Dungeon Siego.

Recently old BAK team has been talking a lot about doing a "spiritual sequel" to our old game, but at the moment we need more time to "get the band back together", and in the meantime I wanted to get back to work on a traditional RPG that will immerse you in an incredible world and tell you a great story along the way.

I hope you'll support Thorvalla, and enjoy the ride we're about to take together.

-- Neal

 

[Misconnected]

Eff... Guess it's time to mug another old lady

But damn man, please hold off on a BaK-like till next year.

 

[hoverdog]

Neal and Guido together?

 

[Jaesun]

Neal and Guido together?

 

[Jasede]

Braving our vile hive of angry cunts?
That calls for a reward!

 

[Anselmus]

What is this... lack... of hate I'm feeling?

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I think he has potential to get decent donations on Kickstarter because this franchise has a huge German fan base.

The crux of the matter is how much he will simplify the difficulty, game mechanics and lack of hand holding.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Neal Hallford?

This changes everything.

 

[Rhuantavan]

Wow, I am... crying... tears of joy. Two of my favorite designers working on a single project.

 

[Cosmo]

 

[Overboard]

Guido recently asked me to come aboard his Thorvalla project, and I was more than happy to accept.

 

[Zed]

I will so pledge for this.

 

[Johannes]

As with Planescape: Torment, the player will begin in Thorvalla alone and meet different people in the course of the game that can be included in the party.

I do not think I'm going to pose on the cover, but hey, that's all a long way off. Who knows ...
The game will have a completely new engine, as I have plans to create a completely new and "other" role-playing system that breaks with many of the traditional pen & paper conventions something.

Hmmm. That doesn't sound too good. I mean, breaking and innovating are cool and all but they've got to take into consideration budget and time constraints and experience. Henkel is plenty experienced, luckily. But still, for smaller-scale, lighter-budget games I'd generally look carefully at breaking convention because stuff works for a reason. Wasteland 2 and P:E will both do something interesting things, but generally small touches, light in scope, they're not looking to revolutionize, because they don't have the scope to, they're more focused on getting things right.

Building a new engine and create a completely new RPG system that breaks traditional P&P conventions...on a kickstarter budget? Well...if you say so.

Nah. If you have a clear vision, doing something unconventional is not necessarily more costly than following an old formula.

As far as WL2 and PE, they're following conventions because that's what they promised and set out to do. Their whole marketing was about being old-school (relatively at least) RPGs, and being really vague about specifics - would be weird if they suddenly wanted to break conventions against that background. Yet neither of them have still shown anything really tangible about their character and combat systems, so I'd take it that they are still designing and experimenting with the basics- and that takes time.
But if you've got a good, concise idea about how your game will work, right from the beginning, that saves time and money. How unorthodox that idea is, is secondary.

 

[kaizoku]

nealiios can you tell us what is your ETA for the KS launch? Are you thinking on launching it during this month?