Half-Life: Alyx - Valve's full-length flagship VR game set between HL1 and HL2

[Sentinel]

Was there anything in Alyx that couldn't be done on a M&KB?

 

[ADL]

Was there anything in Alyx that couldn't be done on a M&KB?

No but everything that Alyx did excellently would be done significantly worse via M+KB. Thing people don't seem to understand is that VR inherently turns any semi-competently designed game into a full blown immersive sim and it's fucking awesome. I totally understand why a bunch of out of shape neckbeards online wouldn't be too fond of their hobby becoming dependent on their physical abilities but I really do prefer VR. Things you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking makes all those years of Wii/Kinect motion control gimmicky bullshit totally worth it.

The fact that you can have a compelling hour long presentation about how to handle doors in virtual reality speaks volumes.

 

[Sentinel]

I'm just wondering if theoretically HL3 with both VR and KB&M modes could be done.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

 

[Wunderbar]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

this isn't about realism.
It's about using motion controls to eject an empty mag and load a fresh one, while being shot at and scrambling to find a cover.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

this isn't about realism.
It's about using motion controls to eject an empty mag and load a fresh one, while being shot at and scrambling to find a cover.

It's muscle memory for experienced shooters.

 

[Wunderbar]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

this isn't about realism.
It's about using motion controls to eject an empty mag and load a fresh one, while being shot at and scrambling to find a cover.

It's muscle memory for experienced shooters.

so what?
moving your hands to imitate reloading is still drastically different from simply pressing a button.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

this isn't about realism.
It's about using motion controls to eject an empty mag and load a fresh one, while being shot at and scrambling to find a cover.

It's muscle memory for experienced shooters.

so what?
moving your hands to imitate reloading is still drastically different from simply pressing a button.

yea and it's going to get annoying after about 30 minutes.

 

[Dexter]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

Most Gunfags playing VR are afaik into this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1690962518

 

[schru]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

I recall reading that Valve at least used to encourage its employees to frequent shooting-ranges.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hings you don't really think about like pressing R on a keyboard versus reloading your weapon in a realistic fashion using precision motion tracking

doubt
I've played enough video games to know that videogame devs know absolutely nothing about guns

I recall reading that Valve at least used to encourage its employees to frequent shooting-ranges.

in before they get sued for emotional damage

 

[Doktor Best]

Its not that easy to explain the difference between VR and flatscreen gaming. It takes away almost all form of abstraction of the gameplay. In fact, there are games like table tennis or boxing (thrill of the fight) that are almost like the real thing, or at least close enough that you can train your movement patterns with those games.

VR shooting is much more akin to lasertag or paintball, only difference is that you do not actually run but press a button to run. VR shooting is as different to flatscreen shooting as turnbased rpgs are to realtime rpgs.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Imagine going full retard and releasing a VR game.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Do those VR guns simulate recoil?

 

[Dayyālu]

I'm still angry months later.

Let's hope Alyx gets entombed in Valve Time and in another 15+ years we get another standard game after the fad is over.

Yeah, I'll be dead by then-

Hey! Ferguson! He's a great guy.

For a Brit.

 

[Mortmal]

Do those VR guns simulate recoil?

Pavlov and even population one have it , you need to hold the gun with two hands for more precision. In alyx i dont think so or its not noticeable.

 

[tritosine2k]

Its not that easy to explain the difference between VR and flatscreen gaming. It takes away almost all form of abstraction of the gameplay. In fact, there are games like table tennis or boxing (thrill of the fight) that are almost like the real thing, or at least close enough that you can train your movement patterns with those games.

VR shooting is much more akin to lasertag or paintball, only difference is that you do not actually run but press a button to run. VR shooting is as different to flatscreen shooting as turnbased rpgs are to realtime rpgs.

difference between VR and flatscreen gaming.

Severe misconception there,
& maybe this is the reason Valve & FB never gave credit where it's due.
"Just get carried away thinking current gen VR isn't flatscreen gaming bro."

IN FACT, it IS FLATSCREEN GAMING:
https://archive.md/P0y8S
Just widely flat & ORTHOSCOPIC.

Actual distortion is required; it involves the process of bending lines that are straight in the original object space. Distortion is certainly necessary, for example, if a 180° field of view, or even something approaching it, is to be contained on a flat plane, as it must be in order to appear in most video systems. In the case of the LEEP system, a very wide field of view is warped onto a plane surface by a fisheye-like transformation. Of course this transformation must be undone and the correct angles of view restored if the space is to be correctly rendered for the person viewing, who, we then say, sees an "orthospace."

Figure 2 Linear Projection
2.5.3. Ceiling corner projection

Figure 3 Corner Projection
Figure 3 shows what might be done by painting a scene in the corner of a room. The little stick figure is viewing tall buildings that occupy almost 180° of his lateral field of view. When a person stands at the exact spot for correct perspective, simple painted block shapes can create a startling illusion of reality; there is no need for any trompe l'oeille artistry. None of the illusion would be presented, however, if the scene were limited to the little video monitor suggested as a black form, no matter how high the resolution of the monitor.

 

[tritosine2k]

More proof OLED errand-boy doorknob-level-dimwit NPC's just spew nonsense and have no problem with lack of proper credit.

 

[Dexter]

More proof OLED errand-boy doorknob-level-dimwit NPC's just spew nonsense and have no problem with lack of proper credit.

OLEDs have proper blacks because they can skip pixels being illuminated, while CRTs have to shoot electron beams top-to-bottom at the screen and the luminescent material the screen was covered in wouldn't be able to display said blacks due to color/luminescence bleeding into other parts of the screen. I've used plenty of relatively good CRT monitors back in the day EIZO Flexscan/SONY Trinitron etc. and when you paused a movie between two scenes where it was supposed to be near perfect black it was glowing brightly across the screen to the point that it could still illuminate parts of a dark room by itself. With OLED you get near to true blacks.

Not to mention that OLED screens inside VR HMDs, aside from being able to deliver close to proper blacks and a better contrast ratio for dark scenes can do color reproduction much better. The reason why many HMD manufacturers still use LCD is because a) it's cheaper/easier to produce at scale, b) they can drive them at higher refresh rates (120/144Hz) much easier, c) they don't have other problems and visual artifacts that come with OLED displays like the dreaded "black smear" that is a lot worse in VR (e.g. it takes longer to turn on a pixel from its "off" position on OLED than switching pixels on an LCD and the black/off pixels can "smear" into other parts of the image before they're turned on when moving your head around, what they usually did to prevent this was a driver-level hack to not turn off the pixels entirely, but display dark greys that still looked more black than what LCDs could display)

Also, you have some sort of mental issues regarding this topic, dude:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/146197612/?q=OLED+errand-boy
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/146197602/?q=jGNJP_VIhNo

difference between VR and flatscreen gaming.

Severe misconception there,
& maybe this is the reason Valve & FB never gave credit where it's due.
"Just get carried away thinking current gen VR isn't flatscreen gaming bro."

IN FACT, it IS FLATSCREEN GAMING:
https://archive.md/P0y8S
Just widely flat & ORTHOSCOPIC.

The first part of your cited text seems to be about a commercial stereoscopic video viewer from the early 90s from the producer of its optics, a technology which had existed since the early 60s and before in a more "immersive" way and didn't have much to do with Virtual Reality:

The second part of the text seems to draw a comparison to what sounds like the concept of a CAVE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environment as opposed to VR, something that became reality a few years after said paper was written: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey61u9J5Bgs to make some sort of comparison about the sense of scale when viewing something through a stereoscope.

Yes, images are rendered in 2D, once for each eye on one or two screens displayed next to each other representing the view of each eye and are distorted through fish-eye optics, for which the computer has to correct said distortion given the proper formula, as well as chromatic aberration and other visual artifacts, appearing for the human visual system as naturally looking into a 3D environment and to proper scale when presented correctly:

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with what people were talking about and I'm not sure what "Valve & FB" are supposed "give credit where it's due" to though.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to accomplish by pedantically/autistically quoting obscure citations from the 80s or 90s, some of which aren't even about the things people were directly talking about or what it's supposed to prove other than derailing current discussion.

I guess it's at least a nice nostalgic trip into the past seeing some buzzword terms of the 90s like "orthospace adventurer"; "cyberspace" and droll passages like:

The user (traveler, actor) seems ready to consent to an agreement with the devil in which he or she will ignore the poor resolution, much of the system lag, the monochrome display in the widest angle systems, and the limited field of view in the present color systems, for the privilege of continuing to enjoy the cyberspace romp.

In the course of working with the "LEEP" system we have come to think of the experience of wide-angle orthostereo "as stepping through the window."

Other than your pedantic "akshually" objection, what Doktor Best said is almost entirely correct, well maybe aside from the "pressing a button to run", it's actually using an Analogue Stick to walk/run, and not sure about his RPG comparison:

Its not that easy to explain the difference between VR and flatscreen gaming. It takes away almost all form of abstraction of the gameplay. In fact, there are games like table tennis or boxing (thrill of the fight) that are almost like the real thing, or at least close enough that you can train your movement patterns with those games.

VR shooting is much more akin to lasertag or paintball, only difference is that you do not actually run but press a button to run. VR shooting is as different to flatscreen shooting as turnbased rpgs are to realtime rpgs.

 

[tritosine2k]

Why not just go out on a limb and proclaim this recent flat "wave of" VR was enabled by handheld oled with its pentile pixels ( designed by a tranny )
(+ obviously noone nicked LEEPVR-s stuff EVER )


AMAZINGLY GUYS, YOU ARE ALREADY HALFWAY THERE
WELL DONE, VR PRIDE WHEN?

PenTile was invented by Candice H. Brown Elliott, for which she was awarded the Society for Information Display's Otto Schade Prize in 2014.[3] The technology was licensed by the company Clairvoyante from 2000 until 2008, during which time several prototype PenTile displays were developed by a number of Asian liquid crystal display (LCD) manufacturers. In March 2008, Samsung Electronics acquired Clairvoyante's PenTile IP assets. Samsung then funded a new company, Nouvoyance, Inc. to continue development of the PenTile technology

 

[Dexter]

What the fuck are you even trying to say? How did you make a post that's even more retarded and nonsensical than your last one? Also would you like to show everyone where OLED touched you, on the puppet here?

 

[tritosine2k]

Maybe they've nicked LEEPVR-s stuff because they knew snowflakes just can't stand the thought their VR is wholly UNORIGINAL

just like they can't stand the cognitive dissonance about OLED ...

 

[Dexter]

Trying to decipher and make sense of whatever points you seem to be trying to make inbetween your delusional rambling...

Why not just go out on a limb and proclaim this recent flat "wave" of VR was enabled by handheld oled with its pentile pixels

The recent "wave of VR" was enabled by mobile devices and Smartphones becoming popular commonplace items owned by billions of people, and leading to a lot of R&D and improvement into mobile-scale display technologies and rapid decrease in cost with an increase of resolution in said, as well as improvements and further miniaturization of sensors almost every phone is using like Gyroscopes and Accelerometers.

Here's a chart of the type of display the most relevant commercially available VR HMDs are/were using for your edification:

( designed by a tranny )

What the fuck does the sub-pixel pattern layout/arrangement of a specific display technology have to do with some guy that apparently worked on it? This ain't Social sciences theories here. How do you even think this constitutes some sort of argument? And what is this supposed to prove in your mind?

(+ obviously noone nicked LEEPVR-s stuff EVER )

I'm not sure why you're of the belief that Palmer Luckey knew about or "stole" anything from some company that worked on camera optics in the early 80s and/or applied for a patent called "Wide angle color photography method and system" that expired when he was 8: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4406532A/en

It all started here, if you want to know his thoughts and inspirations just read along:
https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=4123

Spoiler

HMD help, and introduction.
Post by PalmerTech » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:05 pm

Hi! First thread here, so first an introduction, and then what I need help with.

I am a computer enthusiast, have a lot of practical electrical knowledge with many devices, and also have good computer skills. I am one of the top 15 posters on forums.benheck.com, a game console modding community that focuses on making retro systems into handhelds, and I am also the owner of forums.modretro.com, a newer forum with the same aim.

I am building a new desktop rig, and am probably going to go Nvidia, since as lame as they seem to be about drivers, I have a better shot with them than ATI. I am looking to build a 3D setup, and after ruling out anaglyph, I narrowed down my options. Currently, I have a pretty nice 22" Westinghouse LCD that is great for 2d use. That said, here are what I perceive to be my options after a lot of research:

1. Buy a 120hz monitor and nvidia/edimensional shutter glasses.

Not really an option for me, I do not really want to spend $300+ on a new monitor, then more for glasses, when my current setup is fine for 2d. As far as I know, no IZ3D drivers.

2. Buy an IZ3D monitor.

I could do this, but the same thing applies as the above. Hard to justify spending when it is the same size/lower 2d specs than my current monitor, and a brand new 28" LCD with good quality is going to end up costing less.

3. Buy a VR920.

Looks good, but low res and FOV seem to be a bummer. Plus, I heard that you need to be able to focus well about 9 feet away. I am nearsighted, wearing my glasses is possible, but not optimal. Has modern driver support from IZ3D, but costs $49.99 for the driver. Quick question to confirm, it only supports 30hz per eye in 3D mode, yes?

4. Buy a Headplay.

Looks nice, has adjustable optics (Hooray, a fix for no glasses?), good res, seems to have a very slightly wider FOV than the VR920, and the vast array on inputs does not hurt. I can rig up motion tracking on my own hardware, so lack of it built in is no problem. Issue is that I cannot really understand the status of IZ3D drivers on it, it uses a shuttering format, any way to get this to work on modern GPUs?

5. Buy a Z800.

I am really liking this headset the best, looks and feature wise. It seems to something close to the Headplay for 3d, correct? I have read stuff about how it will work, but you need to keep the FPS above 60fps or the stereo reverses, is this the only issue? I can probably manage keeping the frame rate of my games above 60 at 800x600 if that is all that is needed.

Another thing: It seems like almost all HMDs are limited to 30hz per eye. If that is the case, is there any reason I cannot use a 60hz monitor and shutter glasses for 30hz per eye? Obviously not optimal, but it sounds like it would be about the same as most lower end HMDs. Thoughts? If this were the case, a 28" monitor and some shutter glasses would be awesome.

That is about all for now, could anyone back up what I am thinking is correct, and make suggestions? I am sure I will have more to ask, but that is all for now, as I have already ranted on long enough!

Thanks in advance for any help!

https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=14777

Part 2 was Carmack looking into the same thing on the same forum, writing him and Palmer immediately sending him his Prototype, which he showed off at E3 2012 to the Gaming/Tech press as a credible figure in a slightly modified form, drumming up some excitement before the KickStarter:


There were several Schizos that were going around claiming he "stole their idea", the most prominent one was from said forum that you can see participating in the first thread and going Full Prosper at the end of the 3rd page of said, and continuing to post mentally unstable gibberish not much unlike your own on the 4th ("Martin Landau") that followed him around on the Oculus forums and Leddit in the early days and made various YouTube videos with abstruse conspiracy theories and claims that it was his idea all along:
https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1gulud/palantir_now_funding_oculus_is_this_a_good/
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/360roe/the_real_history_of_palmer_luckey/

But there were several claims once it became clear $2 billion were involved: https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archiv...ead-mounted-display-total-recall-v-luckey.htm

Not least Zenimax itself claiming Oculus stole their IP due to Carmack's early involvement with Palmer and his prototype: https://www.fastcompany.com/4017453/lawsuit-claims-palmer-luckey-stole-idea-for-oculus-rift

I doubt some company developing camera optics from the early 80s whose patents ran out 12 years before the Kickstarter was ever in the running or even a consideration.

 

[tritosine2k]

LMAO what a braindead zealot . "Palmer never lied dude , he'd never just nick stuff from a 80's camera company " .

 

[tritosine2k]

Yeah lets list some

stuff.

Apparently it's alien to you:

1. giving proper credit
2. not drooling over oled

apparently, second IS SO ALIEN TO YOU, you have no problem using oled with critical weakness ( pentile) AND amazingly YOU STILL DO after x years down the line.
In fact, apparently , it's so important, it can be argued the first commercial headset release was a clear case of COAT-TAIL RIDING on handheld oled and used its marketing pull.

"Faustian bargain" if this hits any bells. :doubt: