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Harebrained Schemes General Discussion Thread

Will HBS stay on the path of the incline?

  • Yes, it will always stay on the right side

    Votes: 26 9.6%
  • For some time yes, then it will inevitably fall

    Votes: 45 16.6%
  • It already started becoming a decline

    Votes: 33 12.2%
  • It is alrady a decline

    Votes: 31 11.4%
  • It was never an incline to begin with.

    Votes: 71 26.2%
  • How the fuck could I know?

    Votes: 47 17.3%
  • kingcomrade in order to make well thought answers meaningles

    Votes: 18 6.6%

  • Total voters
    271

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,967
I don't get it..... Harebrained Schemes was brought by Paradox shortly after Battletech was released. Which means they must have shown Paradox pitches of this Lamplighters League game and something about it made Paradox go "Wow, this looks amazing and is easy money! We need to buy these people!" Do people seriously think the Indiana Jones wannabe genre is huge or something?

Probably just, "Wow indie studio and art style soaked in woke aesthetics, this will sell like gangbusters based on their past games and cultural trends!"

Corporations really are that stupid right now. Paradox has fucked the pooch so many times now that while I have no sympathy for the studios involved I kind of think it's also not mostly their fault. Paradox has a habit of mismanaging outside studios. The only good games they've made are all internal, and even then they are like 10+ years old.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,710
Glassdoor review from last week
Best place I ever worked
Principal Software Engineer/Manager
Former Employee

Pros

Open, person-first leadership. Great people to work with.

Cons

It's been shut down. :(

On resetera, a former HBS employee claimed that Paradox laid off 80% of the company back in July, likely on account of Lamplighters League's incredibly poor sales forecast. Just keeping a skeleton crew to fulfill their obligations before turning the lights off.

Note how the happier the employees are, the more likely a studio is about to shuttered. These garbage indie studios always have really "happy" employees--probably because the heads are more focused on pandering to their progressive interns than producing good games.

Going by this review from last year, the leads were ultra-stressed out realizing that the future of the company relied on the success of this game.
Haven't been any Glassdoor reviews for Harebrained in over a year and then this one pops up

Pretty Toxic, imo
Sep 3, 2022 - Programmer

Pros

- Pretty okay pay
- "jam week" where folks get to make up a project, meet coworkers they wouldn't normally meet, and just generally vibe
- There are some good folks here
- Good effort at diversity

Cons
==== tl;dr

In my experience, the culture here was toxic. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads. Worked with a few folks who lied about their work.

==== Some Bad Culture Experiences

- Lot of screaming. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads.

- A lead ordered me to not speak to leads (except for 2), and to not announce deadlines

- Worked with a lead who wasn't performing well, and started lying about his work to cover for it

- Had a lead who sometimes forgot the work I did, then announced that I hadn't done the work in a meeting

- Had a lead who misattributed my work to others

- Had a lead who got red and shouted at me during a meeting. Afterwards, he sat there, red-faced and slightly twitching.

- A guy pulled me into a call one time. Red-faced, screaming. Went on for about 10 minutes. Eventually, I pointed out that the thing that was making him mad was his mistake, not mine. He put on a forced laugh and left.

- Had a lead who frequently shouted at me until I stopped talking when we disagreed.

==== Non-culture cons

- Low PTO. It starts at ~10 days per year

- Decent pay, but software engineers could make a lot more elsewhere. Even at other game companies.

- Not a lot of room for growth

Game company that focuses on diversity ends up with unqualified rage monsters, you say? :M That would be a shame considering the previous reviews talked about what a chill place it was.

Wonder if rusty_shackleford is going to dismiss this guy because he used the word "toxic." :P
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,967
Glassdoor review from last week
Best place I ever worked
Principal Software Engineer/Manager
Former Employee

Pros

Open, person-first leadership. Great people to work with.

Cons

It's been shut down. :(

On resetera, a former HBS employee claimed that Paradox laid off 80% of the company back in July, likely on account of Lamplighters League's incredibly poor sales forecast. Just keeping a skeleton crew to fulfill their obligations before turning the lights off.

Note how the happier the employees are, the more likely a studio is about to shuttered. These garbage indie studios always have really "happy" employees--probably because the heads are more focused on pandering to their progressive interns than producing good games.

Going by this review from last year, the leads were ultra-stressed out realizing that the future of the company relied on the success of this game.
Haven't been any Glassdoor reviews for Harebrained in over a year and then this one pops up

Pretty Toxic, imo
Sep 3, 2022 - Programmer

Pros

- Pretty okay pay
- "jam week" where folks get to make up a project, meet coworkers they wouldn't normally meet, and just generally vibe
- There are some good folks here
- Good effort at diversity

Cons
==== tl;dr

In my experience, the culture here was toxic. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads. Worked with a few folks who lied about their work.

==== Some Bad Culture Experiences

- Lot of screaming. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads.

- A lead ordered me to not speak to leads (except for 2), and to not announce deadlines

- Worked with a lead who wasn't performing well, and started lying about his work to cover for it

- Had a lead who sometimes forgot the work I did, then announced that I hadn't done the work in a meeting

- Had a lead who misattributed my work to others

- Had a lead who got red and shouted at me during a meeting. Afterwards, he sat there, red-faced and slightly twitching.

- A guy pulled me into a call one time. Red-faced, screaming. Went on for about 10 minutes. Eventually, I pointed out that the thing that was making him mad was his mistake, not mine. He put on a forced laugh and left.

- Had a lead who frequently shouted at me until I stopped talking when we disagreed.

==== Non-culture cons

- Low PTO. It starts at ~10 days per year

- Decent pay, but software engineers could make a lot more elsewhere. Even at other game companies.

- Not a lot of room for growth

Game company that focuses on diversity ends up with unqualified rage monsters, you say? :M That would be a shame considering the previous reviews talked about what a chill place it was.

Wonder if rusty_shackleford is going to dismiss this guy because he used the word "toxic." :P

That sounds like people promoted beyond their competence to me. People who shouldn't be managers managing, etc. I mean, hell, I work in blue collar hell, and managers there never shout to people under them. It's practically something that could get them disciplined or terminated if they keep it up.
 
Last edited:

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,555
Location
Bulgaria
Going by this review from last year, the leads were ultra-stressed out realizing that the future of the company relied on the success of this game.
Sounds like the gay was incompetent tranny. One thing is to have one or two idiots at work,whole different thing is everyone is screeching at you for being incompetent.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,555
Location
Bulgaria
Glassdoor review from last week
Best place I ever worked
Principal Software Engineer/Manager
Former Employee

Pros

Open, person-first leadership. Great people to work with.

Cons

It's been shut down. :(

On resetera, a former HBS employee claimed that Paradox laid off 80% of the company back in July, likely on account of Lamplighters League's incredibly poor sales forecast. Just keeping a skeleton crew to fulfill their obligations before turning the lights off.

Note how the happier the employees are, the more likely a studio is about to shuttered. These garbage indie studios always have really "happy" employees--probably because the heads are more focused on pandering to their progressive interns than producing good games.

Going by this review from last year, the leads were ultra-stressed out realizing that the future of the company relied on the success of this game.
Haven't been any Glassdoor reviews for Harebrained in over a year and then this one pops up

Pretty Toxic, imo
Sep 3, 2022 - Programmer

Pros

- Pretty okay pay
- "jam week" where folks get to make up a project, meet coworkers they wouldn't normally meet, and just generally vibe
- There are some good folks here
- Good effort at diversity

Cons
==== tl;dr

In my experience, the culture here was toxic. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads. Worked with a few folks who lied about their work.

==== Some Bad Culture Experiences

- Lot of screaming. I got screamed at by ~half the leads I worked with, and a handful of non-leads.

- A lead ordered me to not speak to leads (except for 2), and to not announce deadlines

- Worked with a lead who wasn't performing well, and started lying about his work to cover for it

- Had a lead who sometimes forgot the work I did, then announced that I hadn't done the work in a meeting

- Had a lead who misattributed my work to others

- Had a lead who got red and shouted at me during a meeting. Afterwards, he sat there, red-faced and slightly twitching.

- A guy pulled me into a call one time. Red-faced, screaming. Went on for about 10 minutes. Eventually, I pointed out that the thing that was making him mad was his mistake, not mine. He put on a forced laugh and left.

- Had a lead who frequently shouted at me until I stopped talking when we disagreed.

==== Non-culture cons

- Low PTO. It starts at ~10 days per year

- Decent pay, but software engineers could make a lot more elsewhere. Even at other game companies.

- Not a lot of room for growth

Game company that focuses on diversity ends up with unqualified rage monsters, you say? :M That would be a shame considering the previous reviews talked about what a chill place it was.

Wonder if rusty_shackleford is going to dismiss this guy because he used the word "toxic." :P

That sounds like people promoted beyond their competence to me. People who shouldn't be managers managing, etc. I mean, hell, I work in blue collar retail hell, and managers there never shout to people under them. It's practically something that could get them disciplined or terminated if they keep it up.
Come on,that is nothing new,paradox are notorious for bad management lol.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,628
I've said it before, but I think a large part of Dragonfall's success is because it was a small B team that was supposed to take a few months to make a short Berlin expansion to Shadowrun Returns. It's telling that the best game the company has put out was also the one that probably had the least amount of input from most of the people in the company.

For what it's worth, Mike McCain's LinkedIn says he's just started working on games again.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,114
I don't get it..... Harebrained Schemes was brought by Paradox shortly after Battletech was released. Which means they must have shown Paradox pitches of this Lamplighters League game and something about it made Paradox go "Wow, this looks amazing and is easy money! We need to buy these people!" Do people seriously think the Indiana Jones wannabe genre is huge or something?
The acquisition of Harebrained Schemes by Paradox was announced 6 weeks after the release of Battletech. They probably hadn't even settled on the concept for Lamplighters League at that point; the game is more explicable as HBS being forced to pursue a new IP, without having any good ideas of their own, by Paradox post-acquisition.
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
341
Location
Greece
Harebrained Schemes died after the release of Shadowrun: Hong Kong Dragonfall: DC.
Hong Kong was a good game (not great but still good).
The main problem of the game was WAY TOO MANY WORDS!
But the game still had a nice story / missions and some excellent companions (some even better than those in Dragonfall).
I am not talking about the mechanics since the whole trilogy had more or less the same mechanics.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,498
Glassdoor review from last week
Best place I ever worked
Principal Software Engineer/Manager
Former Employee

Pros

Open, person-first leadership. Great people to work with.

Cons

It's been shut down. :(

On resetera, a former HBS employee claimed that Paradox laid off 80% of the company back in July, likely on account of Lamplighters League's incredibly poor sales forecast. Just keeping a skeleton crew to fulfill their obligations before turning the lights off.

Note how the happier the employees are, the more likely a studio is about to shuttered. These garbage indie studios always have really "happy" employees--probably because the heads are more focused on pandering to their progressive interns than producing good games.
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game; one must take risks with something truly new or execute something old perfectly, like the game XCOM, with a mature and adult style as it used to be. However, all of this will require a tremendous amount of work and risk-taking. I have the impression that someone who posts at restera does not have the shoulders for it and will only end up launching something well-intentioned but conformist and as mind-numbingly boring as those forums.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,957
Pathfinder: Wrath
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,498
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
What you describe, can apply to many many steam releases.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,710
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
The lesson here is to not let your damn budget spiral out of control. HBS's previous successes were made on low-seven-digit-figure budgets. They spent 6+ times as much as they usually do and expected their success to scale..? Spendthrift Ebba's the one who likely deserves the brunt of the blame for this, but Wester should have done a better job of reeling them back once he became CEO again in late 2021. Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,957
Pathfinder: Wrath
Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

In the end this in a way them trying (and I guess willingness to try considering they are part of Paradox which gives them money) to break into the mainstream. You can't deny that say, Larian, pretty cementing themselves as modern Bioware would be possible if they are not going full cinematic + VA. It is those stuff that usually easily will put you to the mainstream.

But in the end they pretty much underestimated how much their studio brand name carries too (the fact that there are a lot of disatisfaction with Battletech too) that their non IP game ended up garnering 0 interest from the public.

E.g. one of the reason Shadowrun games are such a hit are because there themed as Shadowrun. If, with the same quality/gameplay, they released the same game without the IP they would've probably died after Returns
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,806
What's funny is that isometric games with a lot of text would benefit from celebrity voice acting far more than something like Cyberpunk 2077 or Death Stranding whose production values and gameplay are already stellar, but the devs haven't caught on yet. Nobody wants to play Shadowrun, but Shadowrun starring Liam Neeson and Louis CK?
:positive:
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
686
Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

In the end this in a way them trying (and I guess willingness to try considering they are part of Paradox which gives them money) to break into the mainstream. You can't deny that say, Larian, pretty cementing themselves as modern Bioware would be possible if they are not going full cinematic + VA. It is those stuff that usually easily will put you to the mainstream.

But in the end they pretty much underestimated how much their studio brand name carries too (the fact that there are a lot of disatisfaction with Battletech too) that their non IP game ended up garnering 0 interest from the public.

E.g. one of the reason Shadowrun games are such a hit are because there themed as Shadowrun. If, with the same quality/gameplay, they released the same game without the IP they would've probably died after Returns

Feargus Urquhart tried to copy Larian and added full VA into Pillars of Eternity 2. The end result did not save the game or put them into mainstream.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,498
Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

In the end this in a way them trying (and I guess willingness to try considering they are part of Paradox which gives them money) to break into the mainstream. You can't deny that say, Larian, pretty cementing themselves as modern Bioware would be possible if they are not going full cinematic + VA. It is those stuff that usually easily will put you to the mainstream.

But in the end they pretty much underestimated how much their studio brand name carries too (the fact that there are a lot of disatisfaction with Battletech too) that their non IP game ended up garnering 0 interest from the public.

E.g. one of the reason Shadowrun games are such a hit are because there themed as Shadowrun. If, with the same quality/gameplay, they released the same game without the IP they would've probably died after Returns

Feargus Urquhart tried to copy Larian and added full VA into Pillars of Eternity 2. The end result did not save the game or put them into mainstream.
Pillars of Eternity 2 had a generic story; everything was already unveiled in PoE. Repetitive and boring real-time with pause combat without anything tactical, lacking the reactivity of BG3, but also missing the depth of much more ancient games like Fallout or Arcanum. The ruleset was dull and added nothing positive nor new to the genre . POE2 had good art direction, and that's pretty much all i can remember about it. You want to have success with mainstream public ? You need to release something a lot more fun.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,625
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
The lesson here is to not let your damn budget spiral out of control. HBS's previous successes were made on low-seven-digit-figure budgets. They spent 6+ times as much as they usually do and expected their success to scale..? Spendthrift Ebba's the one who likely deserves the brunt of the blame for this, but Wester should have done a better job of reeling them back once he became CEO again in late 2021. Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

The sad thing is that Harebrained were actually a very efficient low budget operation. They pushed out three Shadowrun games (including modding tools!) in the time it took many developers to produce one game. At the time many Codexers were impressed by this, and wished other studios could be like Harebrained.
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
341
Location
Greece
E.g. one of the reason Shadowrun games are such a hit are because there themed as Shadowrun. If, with the same quality/gameplay, they released the same game without the IP they would've probably died after Returns
While the IP certainly helped the quality of their writing, stories, npc/companions also helped alot.
Not to mention the fact that they made a series of quality semi-linear rpgs that a good number of gamers wanted
(after all not every gamer want or have the time to play yet another massive openworld crpg that most devs make or try to make)
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,967
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
The lesson here is to not let your damn budget spiral out of control. HBS's previous successes were made on low-seven-digit-figure budgets. They spent 6+ times as much as they usually do and expected their success to scale..? Spendthrift Ebba's the one who likely deserves the brunt of the blame for this, but Wester should have done a better job of reeling them back once he became CEO again in late 2021. Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

The sad thing is that Harebrained were actually a very efficient low budget operation. They pushed out three Shadowrun games (including modding tools!) in the time it took many developers to produce one game. At the time many Codexers were impressed by this, and wished other studios could be like Harebrained.

I don't understand why they didn't keep doing it. Did they not make money, despite seeming to be quite successful on the player end? Or is this another story of bored devs leading to the collapse of a company because they don't want to do the same thing again? Although I have to question the sanity of devs who want to make something that looks like Lampfucker Lounge over Shadowrun.
 

Hellraiser

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Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,773
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Considering the IPs are in MS now, I am sure Microsoft has one talented studio known for successfully continuing someone else's franchise, a studio which is perfect for a new Shadowrun or Battletech game.

800px-ToddHoward2010sm_%28cropped%29.jpg


:happytrollboy:

 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
4,334
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
The lesson here is to not let your damn budget spiral out of control. HBS's previous successes were made on low-seven-digit-figure budgets. They spent 6+ times as much as they usually do and expected their success to scale..? Spendthrift Ebba's the one who likely deserves the brunt of the blame for this, but Wester should have done a better job of reeling them back once he became CEO again in late 2021. Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

The sad thing is that Harebrained were actually a very efficient low budget operation. They pushed out three Shadowrun games (including modding tools!) in the time it took many developers to produce one game. At the time many Codexers were impressed by this, and wished other studios could be like Harebrained.

I don't understand why they didn't keep doing it. Did they not make money, despite seeming to be quite successful on the player end? Or is this another story of bored devs leading to the collapse of a company because they don't want to do the same thing again? Although I have to question the sanity of devs who want to make something that looks like Lampfucker Lounge over Shadowrun.

The idea that company should grow no matter the cost is essential to the current state of capitalism. Your question is a little like asking a gamer why he is collecting loot. Even if HBS was privately owned, the mindset is so prevalent that decision makers may not even notice how it influenced their choices.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,114
Considering the IPs are in MS now, I am sure Microsoft has one talented studio known for successfully continuing someone else's franchise, a studio which is perfect for a new Shadowrun or Battletech game.

800px-ToddHoward2010sm_%28cropped%29.jpg


:happytrollboy:

Bethesda certainly would have been better off developing an Open World RPG using the Shadowrun IP, rather than an Open World space RPG that isn't actually Open World, has nothing to do in space other than ship-to-ship combat, and isn't much of an RPG. :M
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,628
Hong Kong was a good game (not great but still good).
The main problem of the game was WAY TOO MANY WORDS!
But the game still had a nice story / missions and some excellent companions (some even better than those in Dragonfall).
I am not talking about the mechanics since the whole trilogy had more or less the same mechanics.

Hong Kong was a huge decline from Dragonfall in almost all areas. I'll repost what I said before:

SR:HK is a pretty steep decline from DF: DC. Probably the biggest problem was the mission design - there just weren't any missions as good as Dragonfall’s, and there were barely any challenging fights. Dragonfall also had a decent amount of non-combat gameplay. For instance, in a single mission in DF you have a choose your own adventure type element where you're sneaking up on an employee (with skillchecks as well), then you have an office where you have to guess the password for the computer by looking at hints on the guys personal devices, then you have a dialogue with the cleaning person you have to successfully navigate to not get the alarm raised (which is more complicated than the usual "Etiquette Cleaning: Is that a model 450F broom? Awesome! You won't call security, right?" stuff you get in HK).

In HK, you're mostly just clicking on every hotspot to trigger the next event (kind of like SRR). The only exceptions to this I can think of are the broken PDA in the bonus campaign and the knapsack puzzle in the museum mission (there's also a guess the password puzzle in the museum mission, but it requires that you Google it). You also get the feeling that they were trying to do more complex things, but didn’t have the time to do them correctly. You’re left with silly stuff like walking up to a cook who doesn’t know you at all and telling them they should poison their guest for being demanding (they readily agree), or walking up to another cook that doesn’t know you at all and telling them they should help you break into the apartment of their guest because the guest is demanding (different mission; they also readily agree).

The combat was a cakewalk 98% of the time. Part of this might stem from the lack of a Very Hard difficulty mode, but it's also because less attention was paid to encounter design in general. For instance, Dragonfall used turrets well in a number of missions. I don't think they showed up in HK at all, except that you could use them yourself in one part of the bonus campaign. The only two encounters I thought were decent were the one in the lobby during the fengshui mission (if you shoot your way in and don't try to sneak through the lobby) and the final fight in the bonus campaign. Dragonfall had a number of challenging encounters, so the lack of them in HK was pretty disappointing.

The backer content is also terrible. You have a lot of runners looking like comic-con attendees, and of course they all have to be super nice people. Shadowlands in Dragonfall seemed like an online forum for shadowrunners, and in HK it seemed like Reddit.

A lot of little touches were missing. There seemed to be a lot fewer checks than in Dragonfall. Definitely more racial checks (I don't remember any in HK), but also skill checks. They barely used e-mail, whereas it was used quite well in Dragonfall (people in the hub contacting you about updates, people from previous runs contacting you to catch up, etc.). They also did away with the claim payment system from Dragonfall (not a big thing, but it was a nice touch).

As for the writing - as others have said, the quantity isn’t an issue so much as the text dump nature of it. Dragonfall had some pretty text heavy sequences (like the team meetings or the conversation with Vauclair), but I always enjoyed it. SRHK is bad because it has really boring walls of text, and there’s little interaction from your character (other than selecting one of three different variations of “go on” every few paragraphs).
 

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