Hearthstone

[Jozoz]

Andhaira

WHAT???

They just got Muster For Battle literally one the best turn 3 plays in the entire game.

 

[Phage]

The card is decent in arena. You don't want to ever use your hero power in the first like 6 turns there unless you're mage/druid, and even then, developing an on-curve threat > pinging something like 80% of the time. (Rogue with deadly poison is another exception) When you see this guy lined up next to Target Dummy and Coldlight Oracle in your draft, he'll suddenly look pretty appealing. You can also strategically recall it when it has like 1 HP if you want to go full value (note: going full value usually loses due to tempo loss, but in some scenarios you have to let off the gas pedal)

As for constructed, Druid of the Flame is this card without the drawback and the ability to be a 5/2 late game, and that only sometimes sees play. It's actually an ok tech choice for ridiculously aggressive metagames, but I doubt it'll be used due to its inflexibility.

 

[Phage]

So, 1 week after the set was revealed, here's where we stand:


Could possibly create an entire new deck archetype and cause people to go insane with anger or will end up being complete garbage tier:
Lock and Load


God Tier:
Tuskarr Totemic


Might Fit Into a Deck Tier:
Totem Golem (need to see how badly it fucks up curves)
Effigy


Who gives a shit tier:
everything else


Disclaimer - This tier list is based off of only cards thus revealed. Things could change with future synergies.



Man this is depressing. What am I gonna do with my $15 amazon android credit!?!?

 

[Metro]

Buy some Stargate SG1 episodes.

 

[Andhaira]

So Magic the Gathering: Duels: Origins will be out tomorrow. Anyone here going to try it out, and anyone considering switching from Hearthstone to that?

I personally am going to check it out, but my time constraints means I can only focus on one game. I have a lot of time invested in HS, so Magic will have to be really good to make me switch. One advantage that game could have is the serious lore, rather than Hearthstones retarded comedy lore. The last and only Magic game I played was the 1997 Microprose single player version, and it was quite good. Playing against other hoomans ought to be better.

 

[Phage]

One advantage that game could have is the serious lore, rather than Hearthstones retarded comedy lore.

LOL

nice one m8.

almost took your post seriously until I saw that line.

As someone who played magic on and off for a decade (and played very seriously and competitively in 2013 and 2014) MTG has some of the most generic, banal, schlocky fantasy shit lore ever. It's full of edgy mary sues, contrarian grey morality, and every ounce of it is just straight up lifted from other sources. (Ok, so is World of Warcraft's, but at least WoW has funnily dumb shit like Wilfred Fizzlebang) They do entire blocks, like Theros, that are just "Let's steal every single Greek/Roman mythological creature".

Look, Hearthstone / WoW's lore is pretty stupid and cliche itself, but it's still more charming then magic's. Especially post-mending Magic.

Also, one of the problems with playing Magic online in general is the never ending stream of "DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THIS TRIGGER?!" after every action. It's really a game that's better played in meat space.

 

[Phage]

Turns out that King's Defender we saw was actually mistranslation.

Here is the real one:

So... it's actually worse. (Original was +1 dura for each minion with taunt you control)

Fairly unplayable overall. I mean, the original probably was as well, but now it's just dead.

This fucking set men. This fucking set.

At least we get to see 1, maybe 2 legendaries today. hurp.

 

[Jozoz]

That card will never see play anywhere. Too bad for constructed and no one plays Warrior in arena.

Fun fact I recorded the last few months of my arena games. In 435 games I faced 106 Mages and 13 Warriors.

Yeah...

 

[Phage]

That card will never see play anywhere. Too bad for constructed and no one plays Warrior in arena.

Fun fact I recorded the last few months of my arena games. In 435 games I faced 106 Mages and 13 Warriors.

Yeah...

I actually went 12 win Malfurian into 12 Win Garrosh about a month ago - posted the decks in this very thread. (Or was it the other way around?)

Anyway, while Mage is definitely over represented in arena, it's still weaker than both Warlock and Paladin. Rogue and Druid are also highly comparable with Mage in arena. I will admit that Mage is very easy to play (big board clears, strong removal) and people often fall into flamestrikes at sub-7 wins.

I think the ease of the class combined with the stigma of "omg mage in arena!! xDD" that originates from it being the best pre-GVG are the reasons you see so many.

 

[hivemind]

what makes Paladin stronger than Mage?

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't know about better but Muster For Battle and Truesilver alone are insane in arena. I also think the hero power is better than the mage's in arena.

 

[Phage]

what makes Paladin stronger than Mage?

I don't know about better but Muster For Battle and Truesilver alone are insane in arena. I also think the hero power is better than the mage's in arena.

Those class cards - plus Shielded Minibot is the strongest arena 2 drop in the entire game right now. Argent Protector is similarly powerful to Shielded Minibot. Consecration and Blessing of Kings are also amazing. Aldor Peacekeeper is pretty much the strongest 3 drop (other than Muster). Coghammer is pretty much the strongest Epic in the game if you're lucky enough to draft it. Similarly, Tirion is the strongest legendary.

Overall, Paladin just has the best class cards by a wide margin.

It was really GVG that put Paladin heads and shoulders above Mage. Mage got relatively weaker due to an influx of sticky minions (thus making removals weaker overall) and their powerful class cards growing diluted. Mage's additions have been fairly lackluster - cards like Unstable Portal are fun, but highly unreliable; and cards like Dragon's Breath, Soot Spewer, Duplicate, and Wee Spellstopper are weak. Adding onto that point, Paladin's class cards, such as Blessing of Kings and Argent Protector (already powerful cards pre GVG), became stronger due to the fact that it's much easier to keep a minion on the board.

Also, yeah, the hero power ends up being stronger in the long run.

Warlock and Paladin are decidedly God-Tier; while Mage is Great-Tier. That said, it is incredibly easy to pick mage, luck out with some fireballs + flamestrikes in your draft, and be guaranteed 7 wins, even if you're a poor player.

(The tl;dr on why Warlock is strong is: Best hero power, stronger neutral minions added in GVG, and the addition of godlike cards Imp Gang Boss and Implosion)

 

[Metro]

Yeah they have a ton of great value based common cards like minibot, protector, consecrate, truesilver, hammer of wrath, BoK, etc. Even stuff like Avenge (a secret that's hard to play around unlike mirror entity) and blessing of might are good. If you get a lot of quality three drop stuff then it's easy to control the match. I'd rather start off strong then hope I pull my flamestrikes/fireballs at opportune moments.

 

[hivemind]

Even stuff like Avenge

I also really like Avenge

Won me quite a few games.

 

[Zed]

Just pick all the paladin cards you can when drafting arena and you'll get at least 6-7 wins.
I have done exactly this just now. I'll report back with results.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Just pick all the paladin cards you can when drafting arena

Holy Wrath -> Avenge is a devastating move. But I like hero power into Blessed Champion.

 

[Andhaira]

LOL

nice one m8.

almost took your post seriously until I saw that line.

As someone who played magic on and off for a decade (and played very seriously and competitively in 2013 and 2014) MTG has some of the most generic, banal, schlocky fantasy shit lore ever. It's full of edgy mary sues, contrarian grey morality, and every ounce of it is just straight up lifted from other sources. (Ok, so is World of Warcraft's, but at least WoW has funnily dumb shit like Wilfred Fizzlebang) They do entire blocks, like Theros, that are just "Let's steal every single Greek/Roman mythological creature".

Look, Hearthstone / WoW's lore is pretty stupid and cliche itself, but it's still more charming then magic's. Especially post-mending Magic.

Also, one of the problems with playing Magic online in general is the never ending stream of "DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THIS TRIGGER?!" after every action. It's really a game that's better played in meat space.

I'm not saying MtG lore is scholarly level; it's the same level as any crpg and that still is 100 times better than the retarded 'humor' found in Hearthstone flavor texts, some card names and even some card art. This does make HS more accessible to the masses though; HS is seen as a cool pick up and play while MtG is likely seen as a neckbeard nerd hobby. I would still take the lore/flavor text and art of the latter

 

[Andhaira]

Holy Wrath -> Avenge is a devastating move. But I like hero power into Blessed Champion.

Holy Wrath into Avenge? Avenge is 1 mana, that's a shit use of Holy Wrath. I think you are mixing up cards here.

Hero Power into Blessed Champion is another retarded move, as that gives you a 2/1 minion.

I hope I get you as an opponent in arena next

 

[Phage]

I'm not saying MtG lore is scholarly level; it's the same level as any crpg and that still is 100 times better than the retarded 'humor' found in Hearthstone flavor texts, some card names and even some card art. This does make HS more accessible to the masses though; HS is seen as a cool pick up and play while MtG is likely seen as a neckbeard nerd hobby. I would still take the lore/flavor text and art of the latter

Aight, have fun with the story in which a giant evil dragon named Nicol Bolas gets cornered on some world by some planeswalkers (he is also a planeswalker, meaning he can planeswalk away at any time, yet he was still cornered) only for it to be revealed that that was just PART OF HIS PLAN and that wasn't the real Nicol Bolas, only a simulacrum!!

Literally silver age comic book tier writing.


My point is don't play either of these games for the lore. Play them for the mechanics. In my extensive experience with both, MTG doesn't really translate over to PC that well unless it's dumbed down to some degree. I'm not sure how Origins handles it, but in the actual Magic Online game client, you are bogged down with "DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THIS!?" after every single everything (even things like creatures entering the battlefield). This is necessary for how the game is played, but it's encumbersome as a computer game. Magic's supposed to be a game where you scream at your opponent "RESPONSE!!" and then your opponent goes "WE ALREADY MOVED TO THE NEXT PHASE" then you go "NUH UH" then you call a judge over who basically just flips a coin in his head to determine what happened.

 

[Metro]

Just pick all the paladin cards you can when drafting arena and you'll get at least 6-7 wins.
I have done exactly this just now. I'll report back with results.

Biggest issue I have is managing 4 drops since most of the good paladin spells are 4 mana. Then you have stuff like Shredder, Yetis, etc.

 

[Jozoz]

Those class cards - plus Shielded Minibot is the strongest arena 2 drop in the entire game right now. Argent Protector is similarly powerful to Shielded Minibot. Consecration and Blessing of Kings are also amazing. Aldor Peacekeeper is pretty much the strongest 3 drop (other than Muster). Coghammer is pretty much the strongest Epic in the game if you're lucky enough to draft it. Similarly, Tirion is the strongest legendary.

Overall, Paladin just has the best class cards by a wide margin.

It was really GVG that put Paladin heads and shoulders above Mage. Mage got relatively weaker due to an influx of sticky minions (thus making removals weaker overall) and their powerful class cards growing diluted. Mage's additions have been fairly lackluster - cards like Unstable Portal are fun, but highly unreliable; and cards like Dragon's Breath, Soot Spewer, Duplicate, and Wee Spellstopper are weak. Adding onto that point, Paladin's class cards, such as Blessing of Kings and Argent Protector (already powerful cards pre GVG), became stronger due to the fact that it's much easier to keep a minion on the board.

Also, yeah, the hero power ends up being stronger in the long run.

Warlock and Paladin are decidedly God-Tier; while Mage is Great-Tier. That said, it is incredibly easy to pick mage, luck out with some fireballs + flamestrikes in your draft, and be guaranteed 7 wins, even if you're a poor player.

(The tl;dr on why Warlock is strong is: Best hero power, stronger neutral minions added in GVG, and the addition of godlike cards Imp Gang Boss and Implosion)

I agree Paladin is by far the best class in Arena, but I do think you underestimate Mage.

Mage's strongest benefit is that all the OP class cards are commons.

Water Elemental, Fireball, Flamestrike, Frostbolt, Polymorph are all insanely good cards and they're all commons. Paladin does have some beastly commons notably Truesilver, Minibot, Consecration and arguably Kings, but their best card Muster is a rare. Not that it matters much since Paladin is strong enough to not rely on Muster/Aldor.

Mage is also incredibly easy to play. Divine Shields basically do not exist and the hero power is braindead easy to use compared to the Paladin hero power, which sometimes is better to use even when you have a card to play to avoid running out of cards.

I think I'd place Arena something like this (for skilled players):

God tier: Paladin

Tier 1: Mage, Warlock, Rogue

Tier 2: Druid, Priest, Hunter/Shaman

Tier 3: Warrior

I think Paladin is far above the rest, Warrior is far below everything and all the tier 2 classes are basically equally strong.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Holy Wrath into Avenge? Avenge is 1 mana, that's a shit use of Holy Wrath. I think you are mixing up cards here.

Hero Power into Blessed Champion is another retarded move, as that gives you a 2/1 minion.

I hope I get you as an opponent in arena next

This sounds like a challenge. Constructed game NAO!

Spoiler

Brb, crafting Eye for an Eye

 

[Andhaira]

This sounds like a challenge. Constructed game NAO!

Spoiler

Brb, crafting Eye for an Eye

Andhaira#1900

let's do this

 

[Phage]

Jozoz You literally put Mage in the same tier as I did, lol

On the contrary, I'd say you're underestimating Warlock. He requires more skill than the other classes to play though - one or two incorrect lifetaps and the game is finished.

Doesn't matter, we basically have very similar views on this all.

I would say the tier list is:

God = Warlock, Paladin
1 = Mage, Rogue, Druid
2 = Shaman, Priest, Hunter
3 = Warrior

That said, Warrior is still viable. Arena imbalance in the heroes isn't nearly as profound as a lot of people think it is. (Maybe they use it as an excuse? "I didn't get Mage! No wonder I lost!" )

 

[Zed]

re: pala draft arena
5-3

fervor sure is a useless card if you're not running mass low cost minion face-faggot in constructed.

I had some great drafts like a cog and a truesilver but the minions were all spunk, especially my sub-4 costs.

oh well. got the dailies done at least