Hearthstone

[Andhaira]

It's shit, you noob. It's not seen on ladder because CW doesn't run it.

It's not shit, duckface. Phage does kind of have a point in why it's not being used as much currently, however the Patron combo also requires 8 mana. It's not hard to make a game last at least 10 mana so it can be used; problem is if you are up against facetards or aggro Pally. However the meta has been slowing very, very slowly. Another expansion/adventure and some nerfs will slow it even more for VW to be used. And also as more people start pulling it and/or start having the dust for it.

 

[Revenant]

This week's brawl screen reads "portal battle", yet my brawls were "spiders everywhere". WTF, Blizzard. At least got three rares in the brawl pack, one of them golden.

 

[Phage]

LOL kwantards, of course Varian is in the CW.

http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/legendary-warrior-control-tgt-deck

Did you really just link an icy-veins decklist as proof that a card is used in actually tuned variants of the deck? That's embarrassing dude. Icyveins is notorious for being fairly shit - it's only good for people who are brand new to the game looking for ideas of archetypes.

You need to find real legend players who are actively using a deck - either via their write ups/guides, or on streams.

For example, this is an ACTUAL legendary control warrior deck:

https://i.imgur.com/FwH0eUN.jpg and the guy's accompanying proof: https://i.imgur.com/eev9jyJ.jpg (note he's rank 6 legend overall - infinitely better for discussion than someone spamming 5 variations of "legendary" decks for every class to get ad revenue on icy-veins)


Anyways, Varian isn't bad. The point is he's not optimal right now. What is the point of crafting a 1600 dust card for your CW deck if it makes the deck weaker overall? If you open it in a TGT pack, you can replace one of the other Big Guy legendaries you don't own, sure - and you can probably hit legend with it if you're persistent enough.

 

[Revenant]

Uh huh, there is definitely only one right version of CW and no others. The strength of CW is a high density of late game big minions and Varian puts many of them on board at once, how can this be anything else than insta win when you already control the board, which you usually do, as heavy control is the main purpose of this deck?

And Icy Veins is probably the best resource for WoW theory, can't think why its Hearthstone section would be as inferior as you claim.

 

[Phage]

The strength of CW is a high density of late game big minions and Varian puts many of them on board at once, how can this be anything else than insta win when you already control the board, which you usually do, as heavy control is the main purpose of this deck?.

Ok, I will explain the argument against Varian that has been said from the start: the majority of these cards want to be played from the hand for their battlecry. Varian summoning Shield Maiden or Justicar sucks. Varian summoning Dr. Boom or Alexstraza creates a strong board presence, but you're missing out on the battlecries. Varian summoning Ysera, Sylvanas, Emp T, Belchers and Grommash is insane - I'll grant you that; but it's still not that incredible for 10 mana unless you hit 2 of these.

As I said before, the card is strong but you're weakening your deck against the general field by playing it - it is far too slow. Additionally, Varian pulling your Justicar and/or Alex in this setup versus other hard control decks could cost you the match lol (a fringe case, but a consideration regardless)

And Icy Veins is probably the best resource for WoW theory, can't think why its Hearthstone section would be as inferior as you claim.

Because literally every single deck there is created by "Sottle", some low-tier professional who's doing it to earn an easy dime. Sottle hasn't hit high legend with this deck - he probably hasnt hit legend at all with it. Just like the other 10+ "legendary" TGT decks listed here. His credentials aside, I wouldn't (and you really shouldn't) trust ANY professional player with creating every single decklist for every single class. Nobody on earth has time to hit high legend 10 times in the season. That's why having 1 person make all of these lists automatically discredits them.

 

[hivemind]

just watched some hearthstone "esports" while eating dinner

shredder doomsayer wins the game that seals out the series

lmao @ the retards that actually play this game as a career

 

[Revenant]

Ok, I will explain the argument against Varian that has been said from the start: the majority of these cards want to be played from the hand for their battlecry. Varian summoning Shield Maiden or Justicar sucks. Varian summoning Dr. Boom or Alexstraza creates a strong board presence, but you're missing out on the battlecries. Varian summoning Ysera, Sylvanas, Emp T, Belchers and Grommash is insane - I'll grant you that; but it's still not that incredible for 10 mana unless you hit 2 of these.

As I said before, the card is strong but you're weakening your deck against the general field by playing it - it is far too slow. Additionally, Varian pulling your Justicar and/or Alex in this setup versus other hard control decks could cost you the match lol (a fringe case, but a consideration regardless)

This issue can be mitigated by replacing the battlecry legendaries with procing/deathrattling ones, such as Rag, Foe Reaper, Sneed or whatever. The only irreplaceable CW late game legendary is probably Alex, and the chance of it being drafted by Varian is low, and even in that scenario it's not a huge loss considering Alex's 8/8 body.

Because literally every single deck there is created by "Sottle", some low-tier professional who's doing it to earn an easy dime. Sottle hasn't hit high legend with this deck - he probably hasnt hit legend at all with it. Just like the other 10+ "legendary" TGT decks listed here. His credentials aside, I wouldn't (and you really shouldn't) trust ANY professional player with creating every single decklist for every single class. Nobody on earth has time to hit high legend 10 times in the season. That's why having 1 person make all of these lists automatically discredits them.

Well, I actually saw him playing Fast Discard Zoo - a deck introduced with TGT - at rank 2 yesterday on his twitch, so I'd wager he tests his decks at least somewhat. You don't really have to go from Rank 25 to Legend 1 to judge if the deck can hit legend at all.

 

[Phage]

This issue can be mitigated by replacing the battlecry legendaries with procing/deathrattling ones, such as Rag, Foe Reaper, Sneed or whatever. The only irreplaceable CW late game legendary is probably Alex, and the chance of it being drafted by Varian is low, and even in that scenario it's not a huge loss considering Alex's 8/8 body.

So you can make your deck worse to play a sub-optimal card. Nice. Or you can just use him when the metagame calls for it.

Well, I actually saw him playing Fast Discard Zoo - a deck introduced with TGT - at rank 2 yesterday on his twitch, so I'd wager he tests his decks at least somewhat. You don't really have to go from Rank 25 to Legend 1 to judge if the deck can hit legend at all.

Okay? So the guy plays 5 games with each deck while grinding on the ladder, then goes "THIS IS A LEGENDARY DECK!" and collects his icy-veins bucks. That doesn't mean that's an optimal version of the deck at all. We've also discussed in this very thread over and over that a deck hitting legendary doesn't make it good or optimal. On that note, playing some games with it at rank 3 or whatever means even less. This very month Trump may actually take his F2P priest started on Sep 1st to legend with shit like Stranglethorn Tigers in his deck (if he hasnt replaced them yet). If he manages that doesn't make the deck good, nor does it mean people should run it - just that skill and persistence can overcome suboptimal deck building choices.

 

[Revenant]

And how exactly will you judge whether a deck is optimal if not by how quick can it reach legend, eh? Doubt you did any accounting, you're just pulling judgments out of your ass.

 

[WhiteGuts]

Some guy just literally played a Mysterious Challenger that pulled 5 secrets out of the deck in arena. The disease is spreading men

 

[Phage]

And how exactly will you judge whether a deck is optimal if not by how quick can it reach legend, eh? Doubt you did any accounting, you're just pulling judgments out of your ass.

Getting flustered already?

By your own logic, none of Sottle's decks can be considered optimal since he has yet to hit legend in TGT, and he hasn't consistently used a deck either.

A rational person would use the ability to hit high legend for ladder play, or for competitive play to dominate lengthy conquest tournaments as an indication if it's optimized or not.

Step it up if you want to survive in the Banana Court.

 

[Phage]

Some guy just literally played a Mysterious Challenger that pulled 5 secrets out of the deck in arena. The disease is spreading men

that's legitimately pretty funny. must've been terrible to play against, but take solace that he's running 5 different secrets in a draft deck, so the deck is probably pretty bad

 

[Revenant]

A rational person would use the ability to hit high legend for ladder play, or for competitive play to dominate lengthy conquest tournaments as an indication if it's optimized or not.

So I just have to accept your two pictures as proof that your forementioned pro really piloted that exact CW deck, without revisions, to legend 6, as well as the fact that losing battlecries makes the deck suboptimal despite the enormous stats Varian puts on board, just because you say so. Okay, I guess the louder chirping bird wins the argument by default

*chirp chirp*

 

[Phage]

So I just have to accept your two pictures as proof that your forementioned pro really piloted that exact CW deck, without revisions, to legend 6, as well as the fact that losing battlecries makes the deck suboptimal despite the enormous stats Varian puts on board, just because you say so. Okay, I guess the louder chirping bird wins the argument by default

*chirp chirp*

There's an extensive writeup the guy made to go along with it if you'd really like to read it, though I have a feeling you're going to continue using Varian regardless and feel smug when he wins a game every now and then, discounting the times he was stuck in your hand while faster decks reamed you apart.

Just accept you got obliterated by Victor Von Phagenstein and move on with life, it happens to everyone eventually.

 

[Revenant]

Lel says the man who considered playing CW with Varian himself before the expansion launched. Must have been really easy to foresee the downsides of Varian even back then with your mighty prophetic skillz OR HAVEN'T IT BEEN

 

[hivemind]

thank you user 'Balme' for playing coin Millhouse on turn 1 in the tavern brawl so I could play 3 portals and a mortal strike

thank you for allowing me to finish two warrior victory quests very quickly

thank you

 

[Phage]

Lel says the man who considered playing CW with Varian himself before the expansion launched. Must have been really easy to foresee the downsides of Varian even back then with your mighty prophetic skillz OR HAVEN'T IT BEEN

Except I literally said "he is a a Big Guy (tm) that is strong but is extremely slow" which is... exactly what I said.

Try actually reading the things you're arguing against for once.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

While it's perfectly fine to argue that Varian is too slow for an aggressive meta, I don't think linking to a top16 Warrior list with Ysera AND Nef AND Gorehowl supports your argument here Phage. I'd expect Varian to actually be better against aggro than the aforementioned, as he actually has the ability to put shit on board.

At the very least, replacing Nefarian with Varian should make that deck more consistent.

 

[Phage]

At the very least, replacing Nefarian with Varian should make that deck more consistent.

More consistently... BAD



(I get what you're saying, but that extra mana between 9 and 10 is a huge difference in terms of the game's pacing)

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I don't care what anyone says, Nefarian is bad.

 

[Phage]

I don't care what anyone says, Nefarian is bad.

All I know is that guy is actual legend rank 6 with the deck. Sorry old man, but this is increasingly becoming No Country For Old Cowboys

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Deathwing Hunter was rank 1 as well.

 

[Phage]

Deathwing Hunter was rank 1 as well.

If he hit legend rank 1 with it, then maybe more people should git fucking good and play that then

 

[hivemind]

men, you got rekt

just admit it

 

[Phage]

men, you got rekt

just admit it

I'm actually very interested in a legend rank 1 deathwing hunter, so no.