Hearthstone

[Gragt]

Last card pack was sucky: that mountain giant, two shieldbearers (had none before but didn't feel their lack), an unleash the hounds and i don't know what else but nothing impressive. At least I got 40 dust from the unleash the hounds since it still has the bonus to dust. Wondering what to craft, maybe a second dark iron dwarf or spellbreaker (those two helped me a lot since I got one of each) or maybe my first loot hoarder …

 

[J1M]

arena

 

[Newfag-er]

Is this some new trendy net deck?

Because it's very inconsistent to get a certain deck running, it's just much easier to spam dudes and go for the face

That doesn't mean it doesn't take thoughts to do it well, but in arena given the way drafting currently works this is probably the meta right now. (or has been for a long while)

 

[J1M]

Sure, that would be easy enough to guess, but I posted it here because the complete lack of any 3/2 creatures made me wonder if some youtube celebrity had presented some math about value and the mage's hero power that led to this person making questionable picks.

 

[Newfag-er]

Sure, that would be easy enough to guess, but I posted it here because the complete lack of any 3/2 creatures made me wonder if some youtube celebrity had presented some math about value and the mage's hero power that led to this person making questionable picks.

Even if this comment is probably directed at me, I

 

[Disgruntled]

Man, the rng and cheesiness of this game has me swinging. On one hand it makes for a very fun game, on the other i feel like being sent into blind rage.
I can see now why Blizzard prevented ingame chat, I often feel like typing the worst obscenities at my opponent.

Especially to mages, that flamestrike or threat of one has screwed me too many times now. Might have to read a pro meta arena guide before i smash my keyboard.

 

[Brother None]

It would actually be fun to talk to people but it's obviously a good idea they didn't. It makes it feel like a much more polite, respectful game, even though the dude on the other side is probably raging.

A few more shouts would be nice, particularly a "lucky" one for those guys who get exceptional mad bomber luck.

 

[Grunker]

It would actually be fun to talk to people but it's obviously a good idea they didn't. It makes it feel like a much more polite, respectful game, even though the dude on the other side is probably raging.

A few more shouts would be nice, particularly a "lucky" one for those guys who get exceptional mad bomber luck.

Meh, MMDoC has like 1 rager for each 100 games, and I doubt Hearthstone has a significantly worse community.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Mages are really a pain. At least in Arena you never know but in ranked it's just dull to play against them.

About chat: Usually 1v1 games have way cleaner chats, for obvious reasons. I doubt if removing it really has big significance.

 

[DakaSha]

Especially to mages, that flamestrike or threat of one has screwed me too many times now. Might have to read a pro meta arena guide before i smash my keyboard.

And as i have said many many times: STOP PLAYING MORE THAN 3 MINIONS TOP, ESPECIALLY AGAINST MAGES.
There is literally nothing wrong with flamestrike. Pyroblast on the other hand is retarded. Not even super imbalanced. just fucking retarded

(But as ive also said multiple times: arena is fucked in that you cant reliably bait out any cards so meh)

 

[Disgruntled]

And as i have said many many times: STOP PLAYING MORE THAN 3 MINIONS TOP, ESPECIALLY AGAINST MAGES.
There is literally nothing wrong with flamestrike. Pyroblast on the other hand is retarded. Not even super imbalanced. just fucking retarded

(But as ive also said multiple times: arena is fucked in that you cant reliably bait out any cards so meh)

The threat is enough. Ill play cautiously with minions and a mage will still keep control with the odd fireball and freeze without wasting the flamestrike.
Before you know it, he has his own minions out and you've lost the game.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Unless you dominate the early game and have great card draw.

 

[DakaSha]

i really do not see why mages are so hard (in constructed yada yada as always)

 

[J1M]

It is counter-intuitive, but the way to beat the mage's long game is to play an even longer one. Once they have expended all of their spells on your high HP minions you will win the game.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Do we win before or after two pyroblasts?

 

[DakaSha]

If the mage gets two pyroblasts in their hand and can pull them off without you killing him (not hard because of iceblock) then he wins. This isnt as often the case as people make it out to be but it IS STILL BS.

Apart from pyro, mage is fine imo. If flamestrike wins him the game you were most likely playign wrong. If pyro wins him the game you prob couldnt do anything about it

 

[J1M]

Ideally, you force them to pyro your 8/8 instead of your face.

 

[1451]

This is my favourite part of playing mage. His spells can be used for removal or direct damage to enemy hero. In both cases they are very effective. Pyroblast, Frostbolt, Arcane Missiles, Fireball offer removal for almost every turn of the game.
While priest's shadow words for example can be strong they can't be used for finishing enemy hero. Rogue and druid also have their share of removal but in their case they must take damage to remove minions whilst mage can do it from the safety of his frozen throne.

 

[Brother None]

Just had a lot of fun playing my mage deck, I'm hovering in rank 14 but seem to win a lot of games there with this deck (was also playing priest but that deck needs work), and that deck doesn't even have pyroblast. Pyro is definitely a pain in the ass but again, I'm not so sure mage is OP, they're just really frustrating to play against because there's no defense. It'd be interesting if there were some ways to counter spells (other than mage secrets)

Had an awesome game against a pally. Kept him controlled for the early game by hitting him with water elemental to keep that bloody truesilver off me, but he had a card and health advantage by midgame. We went into very end-game with me having half his health, he ran out of cards first, and would've won, if my final cards weren't Antonidas one turn, then next turn magic missiles into two fireballs from the archmage. Good fun. I had 1 health left at the end, neither of us had any cards, closest finish I've ever had.

 

[Zeriel]

Just had a lot of fun playing my mage deck, I'm hovering in rank 14 but seem to win a lot of games there with this deck (was also playing priest but that deck needs work), and that deck doesn't even have pyroblast. Pyro is definitely a pain in the ass but again, I'm not so sure mage is OP, they're just really frustrating to play against because there's no defense. It'd be interesting if there were some ways to counter spells (other than mage secrets)

Had an awesome game against a pally. Kept him controlled for the early game by hitting him with water elemental to keep that bloody truesilver off me, but he had a card and health advantage by midgame. We went into very end-game with me having half his health, he ran out of cards first, and would've won, if my final cards weren't Antonidas one turn, then next turn magic missiles into two fireballs from the archmage. Good fun. I had 1 health left at the end, neither of us had any cards, closest finish I've ever had.

Allow me to reiterate your thoughts for you: "I'm not so sure mages are OP, they just have tools that are way better than other classes, and to which those classes have no answer."

Might as well say you're not so sure about the theory of gravity, but things seem to fall to the earth when you drop them from heights.

 

[Brother None]

Allow me to reiterate your thoughts for you: "I'm not so sure mages are OP, they just have tools that are way better than other classes, and to which those classes have no answer."

Frustrating is not the same as "way better than". The priest tools are frustrating to play against too, but a few mana cost tweaks on and it's more balanced. It's not like we have stats available to us, other than to point out Trump's vs mage stats shows them as like 3rd or so best class in arena. Obviously Blizzard felt they needed a nerf but nothing as significant as hunter got (which certainly does hunter no favors in arena).

What I'm saying is that even with mages not necessarily winning a lot more games than other classes, a perception is created that they do because the losses you suffer against mages feel like bullshit (much like priests before their nerfs), and they feel like bullshit because even tho they need a lot of things to break right for them.

I'm up to ranked 13 by now. I do enjoy how everyone up there seems to have unlocked every ideal high-value card, including high-value legendaries like Sylvanas or Ragnaros, and I'm in there with a fairly cobbled together deck. Yes, yes, I know rarer cards aren't necessarily better, just saying, there's some that would be nice to have. Fun.

 

[Zeriel]

You have Antonidas. That's at least equivelant to Ragnaros or Sylvanas.

All I can say is that you sound like the legions of people who played mages, arguing that "yo it's not as broken as it looks, because like, I can actually lose games!". People didn't complain about mages at the top level because they felt frustrating or "seemed" like bullshit, they complained because they were literally unbeatable unless you ran 1-2 specific decks that then had maybe a 50-60% chance to win. This is a meta that was literally 100% of the top tournament results at its height. I can't speak to what it's like after the freeze cost changes, but you have to understand that the complaints were during a time when these decks required the top players in the world to build a very specific counter to have a chance.

By the way, there is no randomness/inconsistency in properly built mage decks. That's part of what made them so broken. You just run a particular number of draw cards, and had a full hand/drew 1/3rd your deck by the time the enemy even had the opportunity to start pressuring you. There was never any "oh I wonder if maybe he didn't draw cone of cold/frost nova" scenarios. They always did, drew to draw engine.

 

[Brother None]

I actually don't play mage all that much. I went up to 13 with priest.

Anyway, I have no visibility on the very top players, so fair enough.

 

[Newfag-er]

Fireball > morality strike in every way

Just sayin, not sure if it's fair to make this comparison because they are two different class, but hey, just saying

 

[Aldebaran]

The problem I have with mages is that pyroblast simply massively outranks all other class finishers. As far as I am aware, the only counter to it is counterspell (which can be easily danced around as pyroblast only costs 8). Meanwhile King Krush is an 8/8 charge which can be stopped dead by taunt or any number of secrets, most notably misdirect, but noble sacrifice is about as effective in arena. Grom can potentially do more damage than pyroblast with a two card combo, but as a creature he is under all the same restrictions as King Krush. Meanwhile avenging wrath relies on complete board dominance, at which point you have probably won without it. Tirion Fordring fares better, as he can often force a 2 for 1 which gives you a weapon, but he is still a creature which can be silenced, turning him into an 8 mana 6/6. Priest's mind control has the potential to give board dominance but it relies on your opponent playing big creatures, which outside of arena is by no means a guarantee. Lord Jaraxxus is the best designed class card in the game if you ask me, but if your opponent has board control, you are still going to lose, it is only really useful in giving an aggro deck those last few seconds to finish the enemy. Shamans and rogues have comparable finishers, but they all rely on the player drawing both copies of a card and keeping them in hand until the end, which is not nearly as reasonable. Double kill command comes close, but that requires a beast on the ground and both copies of one of hunter's best directed destruction cards in hand.

If I am going to invest all of my mana on the ninth or tenth turn into one thing, then I need it to win the game for me or have a chance of putting me in a great situation. Otherwise it is very likely that my turn was wasted, and I have now given them an endgame advantage or I have possibly lost. Mage is the only class which I think can safely boast that this is the case. I feel that it should be made more situational, if for no other reason then to let the opponent think they could have played differently and the game would have went in another direction. And I don't mean they could have played a different deck, that is non-advice in any situation, because against any broken card you could have played a different deck--specifically theirs, but there are usually other alternatives which only work against that specific deck. Especially in arena, it often feels like you lost merely because you failed to dominate them, and your only alternative was to have been given a better draft by the cards gods. I know I have won arena matches that I had no business winning merely because I had pyroblast in hand.

That said, against really aggressive decks, Pyroblast isn't exactly what you want to see in your hand.

 

[Brother None]

Well, wouldn't a simple pyroblast nerf in that case be "must target enemy taunt creatures if present". I suppose that'd go against the mage's discourse tho.
That'd help make taunt more actually useful as well. A superfluity of terrible taunt cards makes it rather bleh right now, I'm learning to avoid most of em when putting together arena decks.

Morality strike sounds like an awesome card.