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Hearthstone

Grinolf

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Mar 6, 2013
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It's not even 3 knights but 2 Fire Elementals, who are together with yeti are main stars there. And solid number of strong shaman spells, as well as decent synergy between already good cards. Not sure what one could wish more there. Well, probably Flametongue and second Lighting Storm. Another Fire Elemental wouldn't be bad either. But that is just asking too much from luck.

Also, big suprise there, but UtH would be nerfed... again. One could hope, that it would increase a popularity of Shamans, and Paladins would make a comeback. But more likely it would mean even more zoo, since UtH was one of the few things, that efectively countered them.
 

MicoSelva

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I didn't make it. Ended up with 11 wins and a bad aftertase after being thoroughly defeated by a rogue. Still my best run by far, and most profitable (a pack, 200 gold and two rare cards, including one golden). I even got Pyroblast from the pack.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Oh man, I just had the best game. I was doing okay (winning quite well) against a Miracle Rogue as a Budget Mage until suddenly, disaster struck: I had committed too much and Poison/Poison/Blade Flurry cleared my board! After spamming two Auctioneers he finally ran out of cards and had his lethal combo in hand - I still had 15 cards left to draw, he was already taking Fatigue damage from all his spells / auctioneer draws. It was his turn: Preparation, Leeroy, Cold Blood, Cold Blood, to the face. 6 HP left on me, the mage. Shadowstep (he still had both), Leeroy, I am ready to hit Well Played- and he BM's me, pulling out his second Shadowstep to Leeroy a third time, skipping the second attack!

Well, that's when his time ran out and his turn ended with the third Leeroy on the board, having had no time to issue the attack command.

Whoops indeed.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Just drafted this arena Hunter deck:
2 Kill Command
2 Arcane Shot
4 UTH
3 Starving Buzzard
3 Scavenging Hyena

etc...
 

MicoSelva

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Don't forget to post your final arena record with this.

I, on the other hand, got a really terrible Druid draw. Only a few good cards. It quickly ended 3-3 and I went back to Shaman, sobbing.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
My record was 6/3. Yeah, I know. All 3 losses were at 6/0, and they were all paladins that all seemed to have drafted nothing but truesilver blade, equality and consecrate.

Ah well, karma.


PALADINS? BRB sudoku
 

Metro

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Game has descended into derpiness. After muddling around with Priest for several months I got tired of the constant rush opponents and joined them. I play some cheap-p basic aggro mage and win around 75% or more of my games. I probably won't get past rank 8 or so but I just log in for dailies and sometimes Arena. Half or more of the players I face are Miracle Rogues who usually die to fast aggro depending on draw.
 

Cowboy Moment

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So, I tried Hearthstone out today, and after unlocking all the classes and winning a bunch of ranked games, I have to ask... Does this game have any kind of depth once you have access to enough cards for deckbuilding? Because, as a former MtG player, it just seems like a dumbed down version of that game. No instants, no stack, no real turn phases (well, they're there, but completely noninteractive), no enchantments and greatly simplified mana management; deckbuilding seems really homogenized because there aren't any neutral spells, so in practice at least half of any deck needs to be composed of creatures, and also no lands. The game basically comes down to combat, which doesn't seem deep enough to carry it.

Is there something I'm missing?
 

Grinolf

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So, I tried Hearthstone out today, and after unlocking all the classes and winning a bunch of ranked games, I have to ask... Does this game have any kind of depth once you have access to enough cards for deckbuilding? Because, as a former MtG player, it just seems like a dumbed down version of that game. No instants, no stack, no real turn phases (well, they're there, but completely noninteractive), no enchantments and greatly simplified mana management; deckbuilding seems really homogenized because there aren't any neutral spells, so in practice at least half of any deck needs to be composed of creatures, and also no lands. The game basically comes down to combat, which doesn't seem deep enough to carry it.

Is there something I'm missing?

Well, game really needs a new cards, expanding existing mechanics and adding a new ones. And an expansion was already announced, that would focus on the first two things. Until now Blizzard focused only on bugfixing and balancing what was already in the game and not adding anything new. How good addition an expansion would be is yet remain to be seen, since most of the new cards are still unknown.
There is potential to create an interesting deck, but you wouldn't see them in ranked games, since these decks are not consistent enough and people in ranked prefer play something that are boring, but have a good % of winrates. Only at the legend ranks, where you no longer lose ranks, or on arena, where you play with random cards, you could see some nonstardard deck. Also Blizzard didn't liked the idea of heavy combo decks, that killed the enemies in one turn with an insane amount of damage, so most of them were nerfed. Miracle Rogue and Frost Mage are the only ones, that left, so they are probably is the border of comboing that Blizzard would tolerate in the game.
And yes, most decks are very minion heavy. But not because of lack of neutral spells, but because minions is the ones, who win you the games. Spells are only there to help them or to finish the enemy when conditions are met. But it isn't the case for all decks. In the current most popular deck, Miracle Rogue, only 25% of cards are minions. Frost Mage, Rush Hunters and Control Warrior also tend to no have many minions.
 

Metro

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The 'expansion' is not even an expansion. Just a 'raid tier' with thirty cards. And, yes, it's a casual game meant to draw in a lot of people. That's been Blizzard's MO for a while. It also has a very small team (maybe half a dozen or so developers) so don't expect frequent content updates or... any updates at all. Moreover the game is currently dominated by three or four deck types and poorly balanced overall.
 

Grunker

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Speaking of balanced, did some stats on my Arena runs (I only play constructed to make gold for arena)... I win roughly 4 games more on average with Mage compared to my #2, which is Paladin. 'course, this could just be that I have a predilection for mage, but I sortta doubt that.

I average 6 wins overall. Pretty decent I think. I have 4 11's but not a single 12 yet though.

Cowboy Moment said:
Does this game have any kind of depth

No. It's the only F2P card game with a decent draft mode, that is literally all it has going for it. For anything else, there are better games. If you like constructed and want a free game, Duel of Champions is your game. Still no MtG, but then what is?
 

J1M

Arcane
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May 14, 2008
Messages
14,721
Sadly, all of the cards in hearthstone with depth are locked away as the most expensive because they are higher rarity by design.
 

Grinolf

Arcane
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The 'expansion' is not even an expansion. Just a 'raid tier' with thirty cards.
Well it's not just 30 cards, since Blizzard has clearly expect that players would create a decks with deathrattle synergies. How viable these decks would be isn't clear, but an aim to expand a mechanic is pretty obvious. From what is revealed, the new Shaman card looks very powerful when played with cards like Sylvanes or Cairne. It would be almost like turn 8 mind control. New Warrior and Priest cards look pretty strong also. Not sure how to feel about the other cards or how well they would work with the other new cards.
 

Grinolf

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It's still just 30 cards.
The most recent change was increasing the cost of just one card on one mana and as result there aren't mny people who play as Hunters anymore and Shamans became pretty popular. Well, it more shows how broken that particular card was, but it is pretty likely, that most of the current decks will became obsolete as a result.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
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Messages
4,407
So, I tried Hearthstone out today, and after unlocking all the classes and winning a bunch of ranked games, I have to ask... Does this game have any kind of depth once you have access to enough cards for deckbuilding? Because, as a former MtG player, it just seems like a dumbed down version of that game. No instants, no stack, no real turn phases (well, they're there, but completely noninteractive), no enchantments and greatly simplified mana management; deckbuilding seems really homogenized because there aren't any neutral spells, so in practice at least half of any deck needs to be composed of creatures, and also no lands. The game basically comes down to combat, which doesn't seem deep enough to carry it.

Is there something I'm missing?

Well, game really needs a new cards, expanding existing mechanics and adding a new ones. And an expansion was already announced, that would focus on the first two things. Until now Blizzard focused only on bugfixing and balancing what was already in the game and not adding anything new. How good addition an expansion would be is yet remain to be seen, since most of the new cards are still unknown.
There is potential to create an interesting deck, but you wouldn't see them in ranked games, since these decks are not consistent enough and people in ranked prefer play something that are boring, but have a good % of winrates. Only at the legend ranks, where you no longer lose ranks, or on arena, where you play with random cards, you could see some nonstardard deck. Also Blizzard didn't liked the idea of heavy combo decks, that killed the enemies in one turn with an insane amount of damage, so most of them were nerfed. Miracle Rogue and Frost Mage are the only ones, that left, so they are probably is the border of comboing that Blizzard would tolerate in the game.
And yes, most decks are very minion heavy. But not because of lack of neutral spells, but because minions is the ones, who win you the games. Spells are only there to help them or to finish the enemy when conditions are met. But it isn't the case for all decks. In the current most popular deck, Miracle Rogue, only 25% of cards are minions. Frost Mage, Rush Hunters and Control Warrior also tend to no have many minions.

I suppose Miracle Rogue is the closest one can get to a combo deck in this game. But it's still really limited. Minions are the only permanents, and they're really easy to kill in general, so most games come down to minion management, which greatly limits interactivity in the game. in MtG, it was often enchantments and artifacts that provided interesting global interactions - stuff like Smokestack, Opposition, Rising Waters, Astral Slide, and many more.

I mean, I've played Hearthstone for about two days, and the matches are already starting to feel samey. It's kind of funny, really, card games have the advantage of not needing to adhere to any kind of "class balance", and can instead have a fluid metagame of decks. In MtG, nobody will give a shit if White is, on average, weaker in a certain block. But Blizzard, in their infinite genius, decided to voluntarily inflict the joys of class balance upon themselves with this weird system they've dreamt up. I predict the game will end up extremely homogenized as a result of their attempt to fix things, that's how it's always been with them.

Cowboy Moment said:
Does this game have any kind of depth

No. It's the only F2P card game with a decent draft mode, that is literally all it has going for it. For anything else, there are better games. If you like constructed and want a free game, Duel of Champions is your game. Still no MtG, but then what is?

You mean this is a decent draft mode? I can barely imagine a bad one then.
 

MicoSelva

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Cowboy Moment said:
HEARTHSTONE SUCKS AND YOU GUYS SUCK FOR LIKING IT TROLOLOLOL
We've already had that conversation. Read the thread to catch up or go away.
 

Cowboy Moment

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You mean this is a decent draft mode? I can barely imagine a bad one then.

You got another free game CG with a draft mode? I'm all up for better alternatives here.

I don't, I just think the Arena format is monumentally boring. I'd hesitate to even call it a draft. Drafts are supposed to be interactive, like bidding in bridge. In MtG terms, this is more like Sealed than a Draft, imo.

Cowboy Moment said:
HEARTHSTONE SUCKS AND YOU GUYS SUCK FOR LIKING IT TROLOLOLOL
We've already had that conversation. Read the thread to catch up or go away.

I was hoping someone would explain how I'm wrong in thinking this, bro. The combat mechanics actually do have more depth than I gave them credit for. But ultimately it is very dumbed down/streamlined. Feels like something you'd casually enjoy on a tablet while lying in bed or travelling, but which gets old really quickly if you dedicate some time to it.
 

Grunker

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You mean this is a decent draft mode? I can barely imagine a bad one then.

You got another free game CG with a draft mode? I'm all up for better alternatives here.

I don't, I just think the Arena format is monumentally boring. I'd hesitate to even call it a draft. Drafts are supposed to be interactive, like bidding in bridge. In MtG terms, this is more like Sealed than a Draft, imo.

True. Still the only limited CG format I can do digitally for free though ;)

Also it might be monumentally boring for you. It isn't for me. What can I say?
 

Grinolf

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I suppose Miracle Rogue is the closest one can get to a combo deck in this game. But it's still really limited.
Yes, but there are Control Warriors and Priests that also carried mostly by combos. But Warrior deck are very costly one and Priest was already inconsistent, but with Rogues on rampage playing with him isn't worth it both because he is class with the worst tempo and rogues have the best one, and because it is very hard to exhaust the Rogues to the point, when they can't kill you, and in order to defeat them you need to kill them faster than they kill you, that Priest can't do.
So amongst combo decks Miracle currently is the most efficient and accessible

Minions are the only permanents, and they're really easy to kill in general

That is reallly depends. Like it is very hard to kill a Piests minions, when he controling the board. You need or spells or very powerfull minions in order to do it. Both of this isn't a problem for someone like a Control Warrior, whose deck is basically just spells or very powerfull minions, but for the most decks it could be almost impossible. Or Druids who have a very powerful minions and the ability to place them way before his enemy would have a mana to counter them.

Also minions like Cairne, Harvest Golems or the ones with Divine Shield, which are very problematic to deal with, are very popular for that reason.

I mean, I've played Hearthstone for about two days, and the matches are already starting to feel samey.

That's why Arena is preferable. Firstly, because you need to play with often not optimal cards, most of them you would never play in other circumstances, and try to use them on 100% of their value. And secondly, because you didn't know 25 card of your enemy's deck after the first turn.

It's kind of funny, really, card games have the advantage of not needing to adhere to any kind of "class balance", and can instead have a fluid metagame of decks. In MtG, nobody will give a shit if White is, on average, weaker in a certain block. But Blizzard, in their infinite genius, decided to voluntarily inflict the joys of class balance upon themselves with this weird system they've dreamt up.
Actually it doesn't look like Blizzard cares about some classes or cards being weaker than other. Only about classes or cards, that almost everybody use. So their balancing is mostly consisted of nerfing overpowered cards rather than buffing something.

We've already had that conversation. Read the thread to catch up or go away.

Actually he has some good points. And I wouldn't mind if the game would have a deeper mechanic. Game still fun and have a very good F2P model, so unlike MtG don't require money investmens and don't tie you to itself as a result of making them, so it is very good for a hour and a half of enjoiment once in a few days. But I would like it to develop further.
 

MicoSelva

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It won't be developed further, because it needs to stay as casual as possible, so more people play it. Unlike paid CCGs, which survive on each fan spending (a lot of) money on the game, Hearthstone needs a large playerbase, so the 1% of paying players are able to sustain its existence.
 

Metro

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Exactly. It's a cash cow for Blizzard. So long as momos keep buying packs they have no incentive to make it any deeper.
 

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