Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption - adventure-RPG from the creators of Quest for Glory

suejak

Arbiter
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
1,394
But, with that said, I think you're maybe misunderstanding the line of Corey's you're quoting. I interpreted your post as saying that Corey claimed he could have run the QFG project out of his living room. (Right?) Then you quoted Corey saying something similar, but actually quite different. I think what he was saying was not that he could have run the QFG project from his living room, but that he could have run QFG as a GMed game, a la D&D from his living room. Hence "that would allow more input responses." The post of his you're quoting is an explanation for why a particular depiction of QFG (the 2.5D view created by SCI) wasn't intrinsic to QFG. He's saying it still would've been QFG -- only better -- if it had just been a GMed game run out of his house.
No, we interpreted it the same way. He really thinks that he and Lori are the (sole?) reason that QfG was as good as it was. At least, that's what he said in that quote.

He did not say that he thought he could have created the exact same product from his living room -- actually, he thinks it would have been better without the Sierra engine, art, and sounds.

Anyway, still not interested in the game for the same reason you're not, but I figured you might as well attack the game on its merits (or lack thereof) rather than on Corey having a big ego (which he may have; I have no idea; I just don't think you've proven it).
Well, there's no reason to let sycophantry obscure the truth, although the Codex is nothing if not sycophantic.

I don't think it's cool that Corey keeps trying to spin things he said in the past. He's the smallest of small businessmen, and he still whips up a storm of "I don't remember that!" and semantics games over the smallest issues.

He says he could have made Quest for Glory better in his living room, then denies it. He says gaming died when he quit Sierra in 1999 "except for some decent MMOs," then claims he was only talking about adventure games... even though adventure games have nothing to do with MMOs. He's trying so hard to play the savvy businessman instead of just talking to us. And now he has our money and doesn't have the backbone to say that things are going badly. Even though it's obvious to everyone.

Ugh. I miss Sierra.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
I would hope that Kickstarter would actually disallow repeat kickstarters for successful projects. The sketchiness of that is apparent without even saying anything.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
You'd think that but it translates into more money for them.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,718
Location
California

Fair enough, though I still think you're misreading his point, which was a narrower one: that QfG's core value is, I guess, its design flavor and not its trappings. He's not saying "he could have made Quest for Glory better in his living room"; "made" doesn't make sense with respect to a GMed game. He is saying that QfG would have been better as a GMed game. He's probably right in a certain sense; the bespoke experience of playing a game run by a live person means a greater variety of choices (as he says). Overall, though, it's sort of a weird point because I just disagree with his premise: for me, QfG is defined primarily by the experience of playing it in SCI. A GMed game set in Spielburg with the same set-up as QfG might or might not be a fun game, but it wouldn't be QfG. So I think at bottom, we agree, we just get there in different ways.
 

suejak

Arbiter
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
1,394

Fair enough, though I still think you're misreading his point, which was a narrower one: that QfG's core value is, I guess, it's design flavor and not its trappings. He's not saying "he could have made Quest for Glory better in his living room"; "made" doesn't make sense with respect to a GMed game. He is saying that QfG would have been better as a GMed game. He's probably right in a certain sense; the bespoke experience of playing a game run by a live person means a greater variety of choices (as he says). Overall, though, it's sort of a weird point because I just disagree with his premise: for me, QfG is defined primarily by the experience of playing it in SCI. A GMed game set in Spielburg with the same set-up as QfG might or might not be a fun game, but it wouldn't be QfG. So I think at bottom, we agree, we just get there in different ways.
I'm pretty sure you and I interpret his comments in the exact same way; it's just that I see hubris where you don't. We agree that Corey thinks the design and writing were the most important parts of QfG, and everything else was just "background graphics" that didn't matter to the core experience. We may not agree that Corey thinks he could have made "something as good as QfG" without Sierra. I believe 100% that he does think that. He's even said a text adventure would be good enough, because it would be By The Coles.

Anyway, I respect your temperate tone. At least Corey exposes himself to posts like this, when he could just take the money and run. It's obvious that what they really want is back into the games industry, even if it means they get a publisher. Oh well.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,399
Doing another ks campaign would be retarded and it would be just a lame attempt of milking people. The people who made QfG 2 remake, KQ 1,2, 3 and SQ 2 remakes, made them without funding and probrably had alot of headaches for games that were released for free, they are working now on Mages initiation and Quest for infamy that have a way smaller budget. The Coles can't ask for help from the Quest for infamy guys and the mages initiation guys? I know that making a game isn't cheap and having people working part time can be difficult but if they needed more money, they should had asked for more or if they couldn't ask for more they should accept the limitations, there is no need for voice acting, the only thing that is important on a QfG clone is the puzzles/RPG interaction and the awesome writing that I know the Coles are capable of.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,718
Location
California
Yeah, this thread made me check out the Kickstarter project again (I hadn't looked at it in forever), and I was distraught to say Corey say that he didn't think the project could be made for less than $500k, but asked for $400k to make sure that the project funded. While that is arguably permissible under Kickstarter's policies ("Figure out how much money you need to complete the project as promised (while considering how much funding you think you can generate), and select an amount close to that."), it strikes me as very problematic and bordering on fraud unless you're essentially positive you can get the remaining funding down the line. I think you really ought also to be upfront with contributors about what you're doing. Otherwise, what if the $100k never materializes? Then the game you're releasing is going to be something inferior to what you were pitching, if it's released at all.

I do realize I'm being a little naive here; obviously the "thing" is to pitch a low KS amount and then get some multiple of it, and presumably the Coles thought that they'd enjoy success comparable to the Broken Sword or DFA or other adventure game projects. Still, the whole thing sits poorly with me.

But I do think it's the right thing to at least be transparent now! So there's that!

In any case, I do wish the game success -- based on fondness for QFG, a desire to see KSed projects (and Kickstarter itself) flourish, and a hope that the people who ponied up $400k don't get shafted. And I hope the Coles continue being open about the development process, if for no other reason than that it's instructive to other developers and would-be-developers like me!
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I would hope that Kickstarter would actually disallow repeat kickstarters for successful projects. The sketchiness of that is apparent without even saying anything.

It depends on what you mean by successful. If you just mean that they get the game released but most of the sales were cannibalized by kickstarter than I think it's fine if they continue using that model. OTOH, if WL2 sells a couple hundred thousand copies than it gets a little more hairy. I mean, if they think it's a good promotional tool than they can at least wait until WL3 or whatever is at the alpha stage and call it more of a preorder than a funding drive.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
Yeah, it sounds disingenuous. Voice acting really isn't needed at all, but I do like narrators in some games. I think they just really undercut what they needed on the kickstarter and got the surprise of just barely meeting the goal rather than quadrupling it like other guys.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
The big problem with these Kickstarters is that they're being run by individuals, not studios. Al Lowe, Scott Murphy, Mark Crowe, Jane Jensen, Jim Walls, Lori Cole, and Corey Cole may have "designed" some of our favourite adventure games of two decades ago, but can you just drop money on a designer and expect them to turn into a small business? Or even a small businessman?
Yeah, these guys that are working solo or with hired help don't seem to be doing too well. Many seem to have management problems at the very least. Then you take guys like Brian Fargo and Feargus from Obsidian who already have business experience and are running successful companies and you can see how everything from the kickstarter campaign itself to the design of the game is executed much more smoothly.

You hear more negative press about kickstarters like this than ones from established companies.

Huh, and what is your solution? Only businessmen should run Kickstarters? When you donate to a Kickstarter you risk your money. If you don't want to risk it, then don't donate. Otherwise good luck if you expect that all projects will be managed by business savvy people.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
I don't know, I'm not the solution maker. But apparently Al Lowe and the Guys From Andromeda hired people to manage and their projects seem to be coming along. You have to admit that the totally independent, "let's come back from the 90s" kickstarters are doing pretty poorly, namely Pinkerton Road and The Cole's kickstarters. It seems like they have a revolving door of people coming and leaving.
 

suejak

Arbiter
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
1,394
Wadjet Eye and Himalaya Studios are probably better uses of our investments anyway. I don't know why all us old guard decided to fund a bunch of writers from the 90s and turn them into money managers.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
But apparently Al Lowe and the Guys From Andromeda hired people to manage and their projects seem to be coming along.

With Al Lowe I think it was the other way around. That annoying guy got the rights or the license or whatever the fuck for Larry and then got Al Lowe on the team to help promote it. At least that's how I got it.
Point taken about the 2 Guys, though. So far they seem to be doing fine and they didn't get too much over their goal either.

You have to admit that the totally independent, "let's come back from the 90s" kickstarters are doing pretty poorly, namely Pinkerton Road and The Cole's kickstarters.

Yes, but if there's a choice between not having them back and risking some money in the hope that some do it, I'd rather risk some money. As I said, it's a risk. Even inXile could go belly up and goodbye two Kickstarters.
Sure, I can't afford to spend too much on them, so I figure those who do might not be so easy about it, I don't know.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,399
I don't know, I'm not the solution maker. But apparently Al Lowe and the Guys From Andromeda hired people to manage and their projects seem to be coming along. You have to admit that the totally independent, "let's come back from the 90s" kickstarters are doing pretty poorly, namely Pinkerton Road and The Cole's kickstarters. It seems like they have a revolving door of people coming and leaving.
About Jane Jensen project, she is working with Phoneix Online, this could be a good thing (she finally have someone capable of making the game) or a bad thing (King quest and Cognition have technical problems). There is a talking about making the game episodic for non-backers, so more money can enter into the project. It appears that VA auditions started in february.
 

ColCol

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
An Update,

Once long ago, in that bygone era we now call 2012, we set out to create a simple game. It would involve turn-based combat in a dungeon-like setting with a simple plotline overlaid upon it. We would use cartoon-like graphics on a tile-based, flat world that would allow us to concentrate upon the story and game-play rather than upon the engine or graphics.
Then we held our Kickstarter and heard from you - our fans - what you actually want to see.
It was clear that what you really wanted was something more like the Quest for Glory series and less like yet another RPG.
As we read your comments, our vision evolved. We put more story and puzzles into the design. We went away from the cartoony look into a more realistic character style like the best Sierra On-Line characters of the 1990's.
Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption evolved from an RPG/Adventure Game into a modern take on Quest for Glory with turn-based, puzzle-oriented combat. We decided to let the players out-think the monsters in the game rather than out-mouse-click them.
One change leads to another

The flat tile system for the backgrounds was too unrealistic and distorted to work well with our new character designs. We had to find a better way to present the art and create the game magic than what we started with. Our team artists far too talented to let the game look anything less than amazing.
illo_seaview.jpg

We have a new team of programmers who are talented and passionate about our game. They are creating new ways to bring the visuals of the game to life.
We have spent the past few weeks testing new approaches and pushing the envelope of how 2D art will work with the Unity Engine.
So far, the strongest approach is to turn the 2D background artwork into 3D. We have come a long way from the flat little game we envisioned at the start. We are starting to create a huge, complex world full of fun and surprises.
Making Hero-U the Way a Game Should Be Made

Unlike those days when we worked for big companies where we had to make our deadline no matter what it takes, where creativity, bug-fixing, and polish are not important, and the game will ship whether it is ready or not, we control the vertical and the horizontal. We can strive to make the best possible game. We can push the boundaries of what has been done in the past to give you a game you love to play.
After all, now we are working for the best bosses in the world - You. We want to give you our absolute best, no matter what it takes.
By the way, we are still looking for one or two highly talented and experienced 2D animators. We do not pay as well as the big studios, but you get to work on your own schedule on a fun project. Interested artists need to be able to animate large, semi-realistic characters and create smooth "walk cycles". Contact jobs (at) hero-u (dot) net with a link to your portfolio and animation samples to apply.
Here is a very early look at the new Hero-U Composer design tool in action. It will let us define complex conversations and other interactions that we can import directly into the game code. More automation = Fewer errors and more player options.
Screenshot-of-Action-Editing.jpg

In Other Worlds

There are some very interesting projects out there currently. We would like to mention four Kickstarter projects and three other web sites, so we will keep the descriptions brief.
A Small Favor (http://kck.st/ZlhUxj) ends in less than four days. It looks like a side-scroller, but it is actually a science fiction adventure game with a good story line and nice animation. It looks fun, but needs serious support!
Among the Sleep (http://kck.st/11D7N79) is a horror adventure in which you play a two-year-old child. It is well along in development and is very close to reaching its goal in the remaining five days.
The Realm Game (http://kck.st/XZlFdU) is being developed by a studio more known for animation. As a result, it is gorgeous and you should visit its project page. The Realm has about 30% of its funding goal with nine days left, so they will need a serious push to make it.
Bashar, a passionate backer of Hero-U, is writing Derelict: A Short Story (http://kck.st/10kmLMF). If you like short-form science fiction, give this one a try.
Spellirium (http://spellirium.com/) is a "Kickstarter-like" project looking for funding on its own web site. If you enjoy spelling (think Boggle or Bookworm) and adventure, you might find this fun.
Adventure Burger (http://www.adventureburger.com/) is a site that follows Kickstarter adventure games. This is a good place to find out about adventure games that fall between our project updates.
KickstartVentures (http://www.kickstartadventure.com/home/) is a blog by Shawn Mills. Like Adventure Burger, this site will keep you up to date on new Kickstarter adventure game projects. In addition, Shawn's articles talk about great adventure games of the past as well as current news affecting players. Also check out the Infamous Quests site at http://www.infamous-quests.com/home/.
We hope you all had an excellent Mother's Day (or your local equivalent), and are enjoying the turn of the seasons. Lori got a nice gift and an AIM conversation from Michael. I sent flowers to my Mom and broke any semblance of a low-carb diet by making blueberry ricotta pancakes. And Lori and I romantically wrote this Kickstarter Update together. :)
 

Irxy

Arcane
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,932
Location
Schism
Project: Eternity
Among all of the ks I backed this one seems to be the most worrisome.
I almost considered this project dead after the spring update which stated they had zero progress for the 1st half year of "development", the programmer guy moved away and they wanted more money. Still skeptical, never expected the devs of the awesome qfg series to be this clueless about making games.
My expectations for bringing the qfg magic back are on the indies for now:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2112639455/mages-initiation-a-classic-sierra-style-adventure
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992695780/quest-for-infamy-an-adventure-game-by-infamous-que
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,399
Among all of the ks I backed this one seems to be the most worrisome.
I almost considered this project dead after the spring update which stated they had zero progress for the 1st half year of "development", the programmer guy moved away and they wanted more money. Still skeptical, never expected the devs of the awesome qfg series to be this clueless about making games.
My expectations for bringing the qfg magic back are on the indies for now:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2112639455/mages-initiation-a-classic-sierra-style-adventure
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992695780/quest-for-infamy-an-adventure-game-by-infamous-que
All that passive agressive ks updates from Corey Cole, with endless whining about the budget while other adventure game makers survive with even less is really depressing.This is indeed the most worrisome.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom