Incline Hollow Knight

[Unkillable Cat]

It goes without saying that if you haven't played Aquaria I'd start there.

Then there's Cave Story+.

Another decent (but ultimately flawed) effort is UnEpic.

The only other game of this caliber that I've played in recent years is The Aquatic Adventures of the Last Human, a small indie title where you pilot a submarine through the murky depths of a post-apocalyptic underwater world. It's OK-ish.

These (plus Hollow Knight) should keep you occupied for months, if you dare down that path.

 

[Heretic]

Dust: An Elysian Tale, Valdis Story, Ghost 1.0, Shadow Complex, Ori, Aztaka, Dex, Guacamelee, Axiom Verge

Of those that I played I liked Cave Story and Dex the most. Neither of them is actually a pure metroidvania.

I always get lost in these games.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Du--ll

Fanboy detected. Cherry picking set pieces ain't gonna save you.

In case you didn't get the memo, I'm not shitting on the game. Just pointing out the most obvious reasons why it isn't the Second Coming of Jesus In Cline.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

This game rips off Aquaria wholesale and then steals many pages from Dark Souls, both in terms of gameplay and aesthetics. It does absolutely nothing new, so the big question is whether it does something well.

What "many pages" does it steal from Dark Souls in terms of gameplay and aesthetics? Having to recover your stuff once you die is the only example I can think of. If anything, the largest DS inspiration comes in the way the narrative is presented. Haven't played Aquaria, but judging from your DS comparison, I'm going to retain skepticism as to just how much HK rips it off.

Like I said earlier, I think it does exploration better than basically any other metroidvania, but I guess you wouldn't know that from playing it for 2 hours or so.

With combat being the centerpoint of the game, it's good to know that they didn't screw that up. Enemies are varied enough that things never get dull, though I have to remark that getting above enemies and hacking downwards seems to be a universally viable tactic. The controls are simple and fluid enough that a keyboard works fine.

It's not a universally viable tactic. In fact, I think this is the only platformer I recall where enemies with shields will block above their heads if you try to attack them from above. They appear very early in the game as well, which is what tells me you really didn't get far in.

The first is the map system. In order to get a map you need to find the cartographer. Then you buy the map from him, then he directs you to a vendor in the starting town whom sells all the accessories for the map, like markers, the option to update the map and even something as basic as being able to tell where you are on the map has a price tag on it. Buying the accessories is a one-time affair, but for every new zone in the game the "find the cartrographer and buy the map from him"-thing needs to be done EVERY SINGLE TIME. This is easily the dumbest implementation of an in-game map system I've seen in years. I can understand doing it once, but until you've secured a map of the zone you're in you have NO MAP at all - even though you've spent good money buying everything needed to make your own map! And once you do find the cartographer and buy his map, your own map is automatically added to his, making the whole effort absolutely meaningless! (And being unable to add your own markings to a map in a metroidvania game is inexcusable.) I have good spatial awareness but even I ended up going in circles a few times in mapless zones, and the biggest reason for that lies in the second major problem of the game.

The second problem is the aesthetics. To put it bluntly they're dull. It's dull and grey, then it's dull and blue, then it's dull and green, then it's dull and brown, then it's dull and grey AGAIN, etc. Both Aquaria and Dark Souls have environments that made you stop and admire them from time to time. Hollow Knight has environments that make you want to kill yourself as they're all monotonous, uninteresting and look the same. This is not a game that motivates you to keep playing.

"So I played Dark Souls for an evening, and I spent my whole time getting lost amongst all the samey dull and grey environments. Can you believe the game doesn't even have a map? I pride myself on my good spatial awareness, but I kept going in circles nonetheless - a testament to the game's poor level design. Would not recommend."

In all seriousness, Hollow Knight areas are not hard to navigate without a map. They tend to be much less abstract than your typical metroidvania levels (I'm trying to play Axiom Verge again, and it has so many samey rooms and corridors, it'd be basically impossible to get anywhere without automapping) - their layout tends to reflect the fiction (so a city is actually a collection of tall buildings, for example), and they have lots of functional and non-functional landmarks. In the one area where this isn't true (as it's dark, claustrophobic labirynth), you get the map for free at the very start.

Clearly, the developers want you to rub a few braincells together and try to form a mental map of the area before rewarding you with a real one - and indeed, the map is supposed to be a reward for exploring dilligently, and this is also why it's partially filled-in with places you haven't seen yet, and why it only updates when you save, and not in real-time. It's fine if you don't like this, but it's not dumb, or not any dumber than Dark Souls not having a map - it's an intentional design decision forcing you to play the game in a particular way.

One criticism I can agree on is the lack of custom map markers, but that doesn't seem to be a universal feature of metroidvanias in general unfortunately. Does Aquaria have them? I don't think Cave Story did.

As for the supposedly "dull" environments... let's just say tastes differ, and anyone is free to look at screenshots in this thread, or on Steam/GOG store pages and verify for themselves whether what they see qualifies as dull.

In all honesty, bro, your post sounds like you've gotten lost in an area (good spatial awareness my ass), became frustrated, and then came up with a bunch of reasons to justify disliking the game. I'd suggest giving it until you get to the city area (maybe 6 hours in?), and dropping it if it still doesn't click.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Wow. That's a double-somersault spinning backflip jump to conclusions you're making there, based on nothing but perceived slights against a video game you seem to like a little too much. I hope you're not like this outside of the Internet.

Before you make any follow-up jumps (because you're obviously trying to build a case against me here):

I did reach the city. Got as far as the Soul Sanctum at 6 hours, 13 minutes. What I wrote is based on that. The game is done and gone anyway, and I won't be returning to it.

I made a mental note of seeing if anyone would go aspie over the "universially viable tactic" comment in regards to attacking from above. (Congrats, a winner is you.) Attacking from above against shielded enemies is still a good idea because they'll raise their shields to block you or maybe even perform an attack animation, leaving them exposed and you in a perfect position to exploit that. Hence the term I used.

I don't care for your defense of the map system, because both that and the map system are stupid. It's very simple: The game has everything for sale that you need to make your own maps, yet doesn't allow you to make the maps yourself. Why?

Hopefully you understand that the above question is rhetorical, because any attempt at answering it will underline the stupidity of either the map system, or the person answering the question.

 

[Matalarata]

I must admit I agree with Unkillable Cat, but for different reasons. I have very limited time to play, and sometimes I only get a couple hours each two or three days, I noticed that when I start playing I lose a lot of time just to get my bearing...
I can understand the design motivation behind having to find Cornifer in each area, but it surely doesn't help if you need to abandon the game for a day or two. As stated above, a simple system of custom markers would go miles in fixing this.

That said, I think I will actually finish this game. It's well ported, responsive and interesting enough to keep me coming back. Controls are slick, a bit too much platform-y in some areas for my tastes but never frustrating. I apreciate that some early secrets are gated behind ostacles you can overcome with player skill, instead of the usual back tracking once you have collected the mandatory jump/dash powerups.
Worldbuilding is good, not Souls level good but they clearly learned a thing or two from FromSoftware. Intuitive shortcuts, interconnected world with more than one access to many areas and each area makes sense within itself and the bigger context. I had a strong Souls vibe when I found the Moos Prophet behind an hard-to-find breakable wall. Also, exposition and NPCs, in general, are souls-like imho.
The death mechanic is actually just superficially similar, since you can just quit game when low on health and you'll get teleported back to the safety of the last bench you visited, without losing anything or having to fight your shade.

That said I don't think they ripped it. I prefer to believe that developers are learning and that some of the incline from Souls games is slowly permeating other genres. A good worldbuilding is not something you can rip off, after all.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

(...)

"Wow bro, please stop jumping to conclusions about me. Also, you are autistic and stupid, end of line." Well played.

I guess that's fine. Maybe I'll try Aquaria one of these days, since you seem to hold it in such high esteem.

I must admit I agree with Unkillable Cat, but for different reasons. I have very limited time to play, and sometimes I only get a couple hours each two or three days, I noticed that when I star playing I lose a lot of time just to get my bearing...
I can understand the design motivation behind having to find Cornifer in each area, but it surely doesn't help if you need to abandon the game for a day or two. As stated above, a simple system of custom markers would go miles in fixing this.

That said, I think I will actually finish this game. It's well ported, responsive and interesting enough to keep me coming back. Controls are slick, a bit to much platforme-y in some areas for my tastes but never frustrating. I apreciate that some early secrets are gated behind ostacles you can overcome with player skill, instead of the usual back tracking once you have collected the mandatory jump/dash powerups.
Worldbuilding is good, not Souls level good but they clearly learned a thing or two from FromSoftware. Intuitive shortcuts, interconnected world with more than one access to many areas and each area makes sense within itself and the bigger context. I had a strong Souls vibe when I found the Moos Prophet behind an hard-to-find breakable wall. Also, exposition and NPCs, in general, are soul-like imho.
The death mechanic is actually just superficially similar, since you can just quit game when low on health and you'll get teleported back to the safety of the last bench you visited, without losing anything or having to fight your shade.

That said I don't think they ripped it. I prefer to believe that developers are learning and that some of the incline from Soul games is slowly permeating other genres. A good worldbuilding is not something you can rip off, after all.

Ultimately, I think you need to find Cornifer in each area simply because it's rewarding to do so, and the developers clearly care a lot about rewarding exploration in general. I'm almost inclined to believe the Charm system exists mainly to let the player find more charms, rather than providing any real character customization. Unfortunately, currency and use of it is half-baked, and dropping it on death does seem like something that was lifted from Souls without much thought. Why do you need to pay for map markers that so upset Unkillable Cat? Why does unlocking stag stations cost money, or even benches in some cases? It all seems like a last-minute moneysink, because developers reward you with money, but haven't really thought of any interesting ways to spend it.

In DS, spending souls is easy (you only need a bonfire), and the game is much more lethal than HK, allowing for some nice risk/reward decision making - if you're carrying a lot of currency, will you go back to the save point and need to fight your way back to where you are; or will you press on, risking losing all of it, but potentially gaining even more? This doesn't exist in HK, because spending currency is really awkward and tedious, and getting back to your corpse is not dangerous at all most of the time.

On the other hand, I do agree that they did the "Soulsy" narrative and worldbuilding quite well, if in a much more straightforward manner.

 

[sullynathan]

was gonna ask if there was a map in this game, but looks like I'm too late.

 

[Machocruz]

I came in here just to get triggered by the stupid gamer term "metroidvania." Axiom Verge...all that 'vania in there.

 

[---]

This is going to be my next game. Heard very good things about it, and I fucking love well-done metroidvania
Is it playable with k+m?

 

[hajro]

Yes i prefer KB tbh

 

[RuySan]

I'm really eager to play one metroidvania. And the best ones (according to Steam ratings) that i haven't played yet, are this, Ori, Owlboy, Axion Verge and Pharaoh Rebirth. Since this looks fine and looks better priced than most, I'm probably going to buy this one. I hope i don't come out disappointed.

It goes without saying that if you haven't played Aquaria I'd start there.

Then there's Cave Story+.

Another decent (but ultimately flawed) effort is UnEpic.

The only other game of this caliber that I've played in recent years is The Aquatic Adventures of the Last Human, a small indie title where you pilot a submarine through the murky depths of a post-apocalyptic underwater world. It's OK-ish.

These (plus Hollow Knight) should keep you occupied for months, if you dare down that path.

My opinion on the genre:

I hated Cave Story. It's probably the worst metroidvania i've played.

As for my favourites, i'll say Valdis Story and Guacamelee (even though level design is quite mediocre in this one).

Dust: An Elysian Tale looks great but is quite dull

Unepic looks kind of amateurish, but it's a lot of fun, even if some bosses are really rage inducing.

Strider is absolutely shit

Shadow Complex is almost as shit as Strider, but not quite. It controls fine but looks way too dull. And has the worst story of all time.

VVVVVVV might be considered a metroidvania, and is fantastic. And the soundtrack is glorious.

 

[---]

I wouldn't consider Cave Story a proper metroidvania. One of the core pillars of the genre is the free exploration, and that game was SUPER-straightforward.
It's a simple platform/adventure. My two cents.

But yeah, it's pretty overrated.
It might be good at the time, but nowadays his only good aspects are the nice graphics & art direction, and the soundtrack (which was pretty good).

I love the genre, and I would add La-Mulana at the list, which was hard (and dull, sometimes) as hell, but... Fuck, I loved every minute I spent with it (and I still didn't finish it - it's basically impossible without a guide).
Lovely art direction, an AMAZING soundtrack, and excellent lore & level design.
Can't wait for the sequel, which seems to be a little less obsure (fortunately).

Never played Valdis Story - always heard mixed things about it - and Guacamelee is one of the next games I'll play.

EDIT: Owlboy is quite mediocre (I wrote something about it in its specific thread: I liked it at the beginning, but it becomes boring pretty early). Ori is amazing, and Axiom Verge is very very good (though it has some big problems, imo). Never heard about the last game.

 

[---]

Another metroidvania I can't wait to put my hands on is Konjak's Iconoclasts.

 

[Ivan]

check out Guacamelee too. Shadow Complex is also another good one.

Didn't like Cave Story

 

[---]

maybe not in the traditional sense but cave story has lots of exploration - of secrets, of branching, of C&C... in many instances you have to backtrack considerably to find all of these stuff.

Of course, there are some secrets.
But I wouldn't still call it "metroidvania".

 

[hajro]

I heard that Rain World is pretty incline so far, could have another metroidvania to play so
on.

 

[Blaine]

Wew, I just got Jewed hard by you-know-Jew.

This fuckin' game, man. I'd estimate I'm around 2/3 of the way done, given that I've got 24 charms, 2/3 techniques, 3/3 (3/4?) spells with a damage upgrade, 2 and 3/4 bonus masks, 1 and 1/3 bonus soul orbs, two Nail upgrades, and seemingly the vast majority of the mobility/accessibility shit.

I recently got the ground pound thing, and I'm not looking forward to laboriously searching all the zones for those very occasional shaky ground patches I happened across previously. I take notes, and I suppose I should have noted all of them too... fuck.

Hollow Knight is definitely right up there with the likes of Super Metroid and the best Castlevanias.

 

[Visperas]

It's a great game. I'm playing Dead Cells now and it's a pretty good Metroidvania but I think Hollow Knights is a bit better.
I'm actually looking for a game similar to Hollow Knight and Salt and Sanctuary.

 

[Leechmonger]

I watched a streamer play about an hour of it, he thought it was alright but it looked boring as shit to me. Maybe it gets better later on, dunno. I'd rather play CSOTN, Super Metroid, Guacamelee, etc.

EDIT: How was Salt and Sanctuary?

 

[Blaine]

Guacamelee is pretty much hot garbage compared to Hollow Knight. You definitely got the wrong impression from watching that stream if you think you'd prefer Guacamelee... or you might have shit taste.

I played about seven hours of Guacamelee, but the often horrible design of the platforming challenges finally caused me to quit in disgust. The challenges are nowhere near as difficult as those in (for example) Super Meat Boy, N++, etc., but they're just... bad. It's been years since I've played, so I don't remember the specifics, but there's a huge difference between tough but fair and outright obnoxiously bad design.

Guac is also a good deal shallower, simpler, and easier than Hollow Knight, I'd say. It certainly didn't strike me as coming anywhere close to the greats of the genre.

 

[---]

EDIT: How was Salt and Sanctuary?

Excellent.

'nuff said.

 

[Leechmonger]

Guac is also a good deal shallower, simpler, and easier than Hollow Knight, I'd say.

The hour I watched of Hollow Knight left me with the impression that the opposite was true.

 

[Blaine]

You've watched one hour of a Hollow Knight Let's Play. According to HLTB.com, the all-playstyles median playtime to finish Hollow Knight is 29 hours, whereas the all-playstyles median playtime to finish Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship is 8 hours.

I've played 20 hours of Hollow Knight so far, and nearly 7 of Guacamelee. I didn't quite finish Guacamelee, but I was fairly close. Having actually played both games, there's absolutely no question in my mind which game wins on all fronts: Hollow Knight has harder and hard but fair platforming challenges (without any retarded design fuckups); MUCH harder and hard but fair bosses, and more of them; MUCH more challenging and extensive exploration and secrets to uncover; significantly more character customization with the charm system; much more nuanced itemization in general; many more unique shops and characters; I could go on.

In terms of theme, they're as different as can be, but both are well presented. Guacamelee's luchador theme is quite unique, but then again so is a BONE/Tim Burton-style surreal, dark world of anthropomorphic insects.

If you don't mind the retarded design decisions of some of Guacamelee's platforming challenges, which is what put me off the game, then I'm sure it's completely fine. Hollow Knight is on a whole other level, though. In terms of difficulty alone, it's significantly tougher than Super Metroid.

No one's forcing you to play it, but to me it seems silly to pass it up based on a Let's Play. I can think of many legendary games that would almost certainly look boring as shit if you watched someone else play the first 45-60 minutes. It may seem slow to start, but it sure as shit doesn't stay that way. I'd suggest trying the Steam refund "demo" or pirating it and either paying for it or not as you like.

 

[waterdeep]

I'm surprised this game isn't more talked about here on the codex, it's incline and fantastic