Anime How much do you hate consoles? (PC master race sentiment)

[Nutmeg]

I mean we're talking about a versus fighter. The point of a versus fighter is to defeat your opponent by hook or by crook and AFAICS, in this particular game you've brought up, there are no style points (to acknowledge non win or lose player actions, to use the vocab we developed earlier) or anything like that which would make it otherwise

I'm not even saying that it wouldn't be a fun simulation to mess around (play pretend) in, or even that without some house rules (playing pretend the game was actually well designed) you couldn't turn it into a fun competitive game for yourself, indeed it might be a serviceable versus fighter without any of that (though I doubt it). All I'm doing is (yet again) explaining the difference between the game and the simulation and drawing attention to the fact that your attraction to this product is almost certainly for the playing pretend possibilities the simulation is offering, rather than the complexity of the actual game that arises from the simulation on its own terms. I doubt you'd even disagree with this, even though you might think I'm autistic or whatever for constantly making this distinction.

 

[Nutmeg]

"AAA slop" (i have never met an intelligent person enamoured with the latter term) is a western phenomenon further localised in time.

In 1990s, the place of contemporary aaa slop was reserved for... console based weebshit. It dwarved any westoid game in terms of game budget, advertisement and press coverage, and was considered the commercial apex of gayming

FF7 is a good example of this. It even has the obnoxious political message, but instead of niggers it's climate change

aaa slop weebshit 1997:











You know nothing about the mid 90s Japanese gaming zeitgeist. You know nothing about anything. All you know how to do is repeat WEEBSHIT CLIMATE CHANGE NIGGERS like the retarded barely human rightoid you are. You are an ignoramus and a sad automaton whose soul got replaced by Tourette's syndrome like impulses to signal your (incredibly pathetic, might I add) tribal affinity all the time. You're a white worshipping self hating Russian Nazi that's hip with the Internet rightoids. We get it.

 

[Gastrick]

"AAA slop" (i have never met an intelligent person enamoured with the latter term) is a western phenomenon further localised in time.

In 1990s, the place of contemporary aaa slop was reserved for... console based weebshit. It dwarved any westoid game in terms of game budget, advertisement and press coverage, and was considered the commercial apex of gayming

FF7 is a good example of this. It even has the obnoxious political message, but instead of niggers it's climate change

AAA Weebshit 1997:

In case anyone doesn't know, every game Licorice has mentioned in this thread are ultra-niche games that outside of SRW, Front Mission 2, and maybe Gungnir, even people who regularly play old console games wouldn't have heard of, never mind played. You can tell by how for almost all of them, 0 localization companies decided to pick them up.

 

[Nutmeg]

In case anyone doesn't know, every game Licorice has mentioned in this thread are ultra-niche games that outside of SRW, Front Mission 2, and maybe Gungnir, even people who regularly play old console games wouldn't have heard of, never mind played. You can tell by how for almost all of them, 0 localization companies decided to pick them up.

OH REALLY?

Let's check what I've mentioned so far:

Carnage Heart - Had an official English release which even came with an exclusive video instruction manual CD. The expansion packs and spin off games weren't translated, but the PSP sequel Carnage Heart EXA was also officially released, in English, North America and Europe.

Steel Battalion - Had an official English release in both North America and Europe with great effort put in to distribute the gigantic controller it came with to target markets.

Chrome Hounds - Had an official English release and was an Xbox 360 launch title globally. Efforts are underway to reverse engineer the servers.

Armored Core: Verdict Day - Had an official English release and still has an active English speaking online multiplayer community 11 years later.

Knights in the Nightmare - Had an official English release for the DS and PSP in North America, and Atlus even went out of their way to produce a video tutorial in English that's still on YouTube.

Gungnir - Had an official English release in both North America and Europe.

Super Robot Wars Z - No official English release or unofficial translation patch, but you can substitute this entry in the series with e.g. Super Robot Wars OG 2 which did have an official English release. Not all games in the series are of the same quality, but nonetheless, it's a well known series of games.

Kunitori Zunou Battle - No official English release or unofficial translation patch. There's a video tutorial in English some guy made online, and even a thread on the codex about it which explains how to play it.

Asuka 120% Limit Over - No official English release (due to the history of this particular version of Asuka 120), but there is an unofficial translation patch, which is unnecessary, as it's a versus fighter.

Marvel vs Capcom 2 - Had multiple official English releases. This is one of the most well known games in its genre.

Gungriffon - Had an official English release, as did 2 out of 3 of its sequels.

Panekit - No English release or translation patch. Shame!

Great Peak - No English release or translation patch.

Front Misson 2 - The original had no official English release, though it did get an unofficial translation patch. There is an "remaster" out now, in English. The series is very well known and other games did have official English releases. The best game in the series is Front Mission 5, IMO, which also has a translation patch.

So I mentioned 14 games, 10 of which you can play in English, 8 of which had official localizations.

 

[Rincewind]

I don't quite hate them, I'm actually interested in checking out some console games. But I'm having serious problems adapting to using the controller, it's just confusing to me. Navigating menus and such seems to be a massive pain compared to the simplicity of using a mouse, or better yet, keyboard + mouse where you have 100+ custom keys at your disposal and the shortcuts are memorable (e.g., P for pause, I for inventory, etc, not the nonsensical red/blue/green/x/y/a/b whatever...)

I have an Xbox 360 controller and sometimes I try games with it that support both gamepads and keyboard+mouse. But unless it's a very simple walking sim, 9 times out of 10 I can't go back to keyboard+mouse fast enough.

So dunno, seems like a controller is just a bad fit for complex or menu-driven games.

My background: 1-button digital joysticks on C64 & Amiga, then keyboard + mouse for the next 30 years.

 

[GamerCat_]

"AAA slop" (i have never met an intelligent person enamoured with the latter term) is a western phenomenon further localised in time.

In 1990s, the place of contemporary aaa slop was reserved for... console based weebshit. It dwarved any westoid game in terms of game budget, advertisement and press coverage, and was considered the commercial apex of gayming

FF7 is a good example of this. It even has the obnoxious political message, but instead of niggers it's climate change

Final Fantasy 7 is about how Aryans are the custodians of nature. But you wouldn't get that because you're a nigger.

And as for the strategy game point, show me a computer beating God Hand. Not the best God Hand player. Just let it get to the end of the game. Since apparently the ability of machine-intelligence to handle a game means something important here.

idk, is real life fencing more or less complex than the fighting games you listed?

This tries to simulate how real swordfights work. Yeah, the AI is still bad, but if it's improved, or if multiplayer is added (the game is still in prototype phase, many things will improve and be added), how can you get more complex than this, a full physics simulation of medieval combat? It has pixel-perfect hitboxes so anything from the length to the shape of your weapon matters in how you approach a fight.

Complex construction doesn't make for a complex game. 'We Who Are About to Die' is a game I've played sort of recently. Similar system of pixel-contact free-form weapon handling. Potentially endless skill ceiling. In practice you win by doing massive drag swings into heads until everything dies.

Simpler gladiatorial combat systems, like the Japanese ones in 'Shadow of Rome' and 'Coliseum', demand far more thoughtful engagement to play well and win, because they were constructed with that end in mind. Not being praised by people like you who admire systems-complexity for its own sake (or potential, regardless of realisation).

Okay, I get it, all you care about is winning the game, not actually engaging with its systems.

The point is that most western games praised for their complexity are overengineered barely functional shit in which the only reason to engage with most of the "systems" is role-playing or living up to the fantasy that you're the kind of person who appreciates complex systems.

In case anyone doesn't know, every game Licorice has mentioned in this thread are ultra-niche games that outside of SRW, Front Mission 2, and maybe Gungnir, even people who regularly play old console games wouldn't have heard of, never mind played. You can tell by how for almost all of them, 0 localization companies decided to pick them up.

The only specific game named in opposition to this is Final Fantasy 7. And I think I know why. All of the actually retarded normalfag PS1 games are WESTERN.

 

[Gastrick]

In case anyone doesn't know, every game Licorice has mentioned in this thread are ultra-niche games that outside of SRW, Front Mission 2, and maybe Gungnir, even people who regularly play old console games wouldn't have heard of, never mind played. You can tell by how for almost all of them, 0 localization companies decided to pick them up.

OH REALLY?

Let's check what I've mentioned so far:

Carnage Heart - Had an official English release which even came with an exclusive video instruction manual CD. The expansion packs and spin off games weren't translated, but the PSP sequel Carnage Heart EXA was also officially released, in English, North America and Europe.

Steel Battalion - Had an official English release in both North America and Europe with great effort put in to distribute the gigantic controller it came with to target markets.

Chrome Hounds - Had an official English release and was an Xbox 360 launch title globally. Efforts are underway to reverse engineer the servers.

Armored Core: Verdict Day - Had an official English release and still has an active English speaking online multiplayer community 11 years later.

Knights in the Nightmare - Had an official English release for the DS and PSP in North America, and Atlus even went out of their way to produce a video tutorial in English that's still on YouTube.

Gungnir - Had an official English release in both North America and Europe.

Super Robot Wars Z - No official English release or unofficial translation patch, but you can substitute this entry in the series with e.g. Super Robot Wars OG 2 which did have an official English release. Not all games in the series are of the same quality, but nonetheless, it's a well known series of games.

Kunitori Zunou Battle - No official English release or unofficial translation patch. There's a video tutorial in English some guy made online, and even a thread on the codex about it which explains how to play it.

Asuka 120% Limit Over - No official English release (due to the history of this particular version of Asuka 120), but there is an unofficial translation patch, which is unnecessary, as it's a versus fighter.

Marvel vs Capcom 2 - Had multiple official English releases. This is one of the most well known games in its genre.

Gungriffon - Had an official English release, as did 2 out of 3 of its sequels.

Panekit - No English release or translation patch. Shame!

Great Peak - No English release or translation patch.

Front Misson 2 - The original had no official English release, though it did get an unofficial translation patch. There is an "remaster" out now, in English. The series is very well known and other games did have official English releases. The best game in the series is Front Mission 5, IMO, which also has a translation patch.

So I mentioned 14 games, 10 of which you can play in English, 8 of which had official localizations.

Didn't read the post where you mentioned the fighting-game Marvel vs Capcom 2; don't play Armored Core so won't recognize all the subtitles, but I guess that would be an exception (AC V being decently-niche instead of ultra-niche).

 

[Nutmeg]

But I'm having serious problems adapting to using the controller, it's just confusing to me. Navigating menus and such seems to be a massive pain compared to the simplicity of using a mouse, or better yet, keyboard + mouse where you have 100+ custom keys at your disposal and the shortcuts are memorable (e.g., P for pause, I for inventory, etc, not the nonsensical red/blue/green/x/y/a/b whatever...)

True, but there is a pattern to it.

The direction buttons move the cursor.

The lower 2 face buttons are always to confirm or cancel (tho Western and Japanese games have opposite conventions of which one is which)

Shoulder buttons are used to page up or down or cycle tabs.

The upper two buttons are often unused, but when they are it is to bring up additional info about whatever is under your cursor.

Sometimes start or select will show a button guide.

 

[Ol' Willy]

That's a good example. I don't see any maneuvering (aside from those jumps) or tactics involved, you just get close to the targets, switch to appropriate weapon and blast their HP away. Not much weapon settings, not much tactics, doesn't really matter where you aim... Looks like something you would play on arcade to have some easy fun. I mean yeah, the HUD looks really busy, but it doesn't matter if most of it is just for scenery. You could prove your point easier if you linked Panzer Front as this is the game where you have to actually use your brain

The second one looks atrocious to play due to how slow it is, probably the slowest tacticool I ever saw due to everything being a cutscene - graphic faggotry at its pure display. Can't say anything about the systems without firsthand experience

Third one looks interesting, but seeing how he uses wing as ailerons just makes me cringe. And the game has no problems with it

4th and 5th can't say anything by just watching the videos. I guess in your book the screen being busy equals complex?

 

[GamerCat_]

That's a good example. I don't see any maneuvering (aside from those jumps) or tactics involved, you just get close to the targets, switch to appropriate weapon and blast their HP away. Not much weapon settings, not much tactics, doesn't really matter where you aim... Looks like something you would play on arcade to have some easy fun. I mean yeah, the HUD looks really busy, but it doesn't matter if most of it is just for scenery. You could prove your point easier if you linked Panzer Front as this is the game where you have to actually use your brain

The second one looks atrocious to play due to how slow it is, probably the slowest tacticool I ever saw due to everything being a cutscene - graphic faggotry at its pure display. Can't say anything about the systems without firsthand experience

Third one looks interesting, but seeing how he uses wing as ailerons just makes me cringe. And the game has no problems with it

4th and 5th can't say anything by just watching the videos. I guess in your book the screen being busy equals complex?

If we want to use reductive language most games can be made to sound quite simple, because they in most cases actually are. In fact most things people do are simple.

The first problem here is that you seem to have shifted from defending underlying complexity to basing your attacks on practical complexity, in which case you would have to answer the 'peg and hole' charges against CRPGs. The second is that everyone seems to be lapsing into an unconscious standing assumption that complexity is inherently valuable.

The most coherent case for complexity is what has been called the "simulationist" aspect, that it can facilitate naturalistic interactions with virtual worlds. Which already means that the complexity is no longer an end, but a means. Breath of the Wild may use simple systems, but they are so robust that they allow for far more interesting organic problem solving than Underrail.

What is this thread trying to prove at this point? Are we looking for impressive feats and accomplishments in pop-art and entertainment media? Why don't we all just post our dicks, bank-accounts, and footage of ourselves trying to do handstands? That would make more sense than trying to quantify if beating God Hand or Underrail makes you more of an overman.

And I am the best in the world at video games because I am the best at appreciating them. They all become something most interesting in my mind. I have the most valuable experiences of them.

 

[Nutmeg]

That's a good example. I don't see any maneuvering (aside from those jumps) or tactics involved, you just get close to the targets, switch to appropriate weapon and blast their HP away. Not much weapon settings, not much tactics, doesn't really matter where you aim... Looks like something you would play on arcade to have some easy fun. I mean yeah, the HUD looks really busy, but it doesn't matter if most of it is just for scenery. You could prove your point easier if you linked Panzer Front as this is the game where you have to actually use your brain

The second one looks atrocious to play due to how slow it is, probably the slowest tacticool I ever saw due to everything being a cutscene - graphic faggotry at its pure display. Can't say anything about the systems without firsthand experience

Third one looks interesting, but seeing how he uses wing as ailerons just makes me cringe. And the game has no problems with it

4th and 5th can't say anything by just watching the videos. I guess in your book the screen being busy equals complex?

Dude I was limiting myself to 1997 because you mentioned Final Fantasy 7 as if it was representative of Japanese console gaming at the time.

Gungriffon is a well designed weapon switching and routing time attack game, but it's not a complex sim -- it is more akin to Quake (or rather Serious Sam) than anything else. My favorite weebshit mech sim at the moment is, as mentioned, Verdict Day. Here both the simulation and game are complex enough.



Game is all about building your mechs so they control and perform for their role in your team (or solo). You can also program a party of AI mechs and then fight them against human opponents (or other AI only teams, or mixtures of the two) or use them as allies in the missions:





As for Front Mission 2 being slow, it is, but you can turn the animations entirely off which speeds things up. It's good (but don't use the network parts!). That said if you want to play just one game in the series I recommend playing 5, which is all about setting up fat attack chains and managing AP:



I wrote a super long review of it here

Carnage Heart (5th game) is a mecha programming and TBS game. Here is the extremely 90s, extremely charming official tutorial video explaining how it works:

 

[Beastro]

I don't hate consoles because I feel they died around when I gave them up.

After 2000 consoles just became shitty PCs and the cross platform crap meant PC games were dragged down with them instead of consoles continuing to do their own thing.

 

[Rincewind]

What is this thread trying to prove at this point? Are we looking for impressive feats and accomplishments in pop-art and entertainment media? Why don't we all just post our dicks, bank-accounts, and footage of ourselves trying to do handstands? That would make more sense than trying to quantify if beating God Hand or Underrail makes you more of an overman.

Lol, that describes most of the codex. Most of what people do here is in fact dick waving.

The only thing that matters when playing a game: is it fun *for me* to play it? Yes or no? End of story.

And yeah, "complexity" doesn't mean shit. Anybody can make something complex by adding layers upon layers upon layers. That's not my idea of fun, that just sounds tedious. The best games are in fact pretty simple.

 

[BrainMuncher]

I can't bring myself to hate an inanimate object. But I do hate all the shitty design decisions developers think they have to make because they are targeting consoles.

 

[Humanophage]

I can't bring myself to hate an inanimate object. But I do hate all the shitty design decisions developers think they have to make because they are targeting consoles.

It's just a metonym. It even says so explicitly in the poll (I hate consoles and their fans).

 

[BrainMuncher]

I can't bring myself to hate an inanimate object. But I do hate all the shitty design decisions developers think they have to make because they are targeting consoles.

It's just a metonym. It even says so explicitly in the poll (I hate consoles and their fans).

Still, hate is not the word I would choose. It's more like frustration.

If you son was retarded and kept shitting his pants, would you hate him for it? Hopefully not, but it would be very frustrating.

That's what developers and their consoles are like. There's a toilet right there but they keep shitting their pants over and over, they can't help it. They don't have to, they could just choose to use the toilet, but they don't for some reason.

 

[PrK]

I can't bring myself to hate an inanimate object. But I do hate all the shitty design decisions developers think they have to make because they are targeting consoles.

It's just a metonym. It even says so explicitly in the poll (I hate consoles and their fans).

Still, hate is not the word I would choose. It's more like frustration.

If you son was retarded and kept shitting his pants, would you hate him for it? Hopefully not, but it would be very frustrating.

That's what developers and their consoles are like. There's a toilet right there but they keep shitting their pants over and over, they can't help it. They don't have to, they could just choose to use the toilet, but they don't for some reason.

No, I legitimately do hate them. The console makers, publishers, devs, fans and the hardware. I want the companies to go bankrupt and all the consoles in the living rooms around the world to spontaneously combust.

 

[Ash]

Only familiar with limited subsections of gaming and yet love to spend time online ranting nonsense? Cure your ignorance today!

Consoletards shall play:

True Immersive Sims: Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis etc. Some of the best games ever made.
Real FPS: Doom (1993), Duke Nukem 3D, Quake and many more. Quality shit before FPS became braindead.
cRPG: Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Morrowind. Do your best to avoid the many storyfaggot cRPGs and find the games with substance.
Turn-based Tactics: Xcom, Jagged Alliance 2, Battle Brothers. Play on Ironman for some serious strategic gaming.
Space games: Star Control 2, Everspace, Overload. Some very unfairly neglected games here in the gaming zeitgeist sadly.

PCtards shall play, ideally via emulation:

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996), Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Mario Bros 3. All three are TOP QUALITY.
Survival Horror: Resident Evil 2 (1998), Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, Silent Hill 1. All three come with disclaimers, but have mature themes and tone PC gamers will find comfortable.
Action-Adventure: Ninja Gaiden (2004), The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Hunt down the original version of Ninja Gaiden, not rereleases.
JRPG: Dark Souls, Parasite Eve 1 or 2, Final Fantasy 5 all the way through to 9. Do your best to avoid the many storyfaggot JRPGs and find the games with substance.
Shooters: Resident Evil 4 (2005), Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, Turok (1997). Consoles can do great shooters. Simpletons harp on about Goldeneye and the like because the quality shooters on console were too hardcore for them (and boy were they often hardcore, e.g no quicksaves), creating a vacuum of decline in public consciousness.

Many genres are missing from both categories, no multiplatform releases, and many missing classics in general of course. This is your starter kit for experiencing both sides of gaming greatness. For both console and PC games, keep in mind the glory of mods and romhacks, which can take many of these games to even greater heights of pure incline.
Arcade gaming I guess I'm not truly qualified to talk here, not being Japanese and all. And it's not really comparable or ever debated anyway.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I am ambivalent about consoles.

My preferred genres, RPGs, adventures, immersive sims, survival horrors, were born on PC. And all these genres basically disappeared during the wasteland period of western gaming (end of '00s beginning of '10s, i.e. the "xbox era"), when the kind of games that I loved were considered antiquated, and everything suddenly became a linear corridor shooter.

Ironically, old console games, in particular JRPGs, became a breath of fresh air when I discovered them retrospectively through emulation during/after this wasteland period. At least JRPGs were something different for me, they were even turn-based, a kind of heresy accordingly to western modern game design of that period! Many interesting survival horrors were made for consoles too, and I played then on PC with emulation, while this genre completely disappeared in the mainstream.

So my sanity was temporarily saved thanks to (eastern) console emulation, but I was able to play those games only because I was still using a PC. Now we are living in a "post wasteland-xbox era", and, mainly thanks to indies, many game genres reappeared, while any distinction between console and PC gaming has completely blurred.

 

[BrainMuncher]

while any distinction between console and PC gaming has completely blurred.

Not really, it's usually pretty obvious when a game is made for PC or made for consoles. There just aren't many PC games getting made any more. Most new games are console games that you can play on PC. Most PC focussed games these days are indie.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996), Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Mario Bros 3. All three are TOP QUALITY.

No Crash Bandicoot, wtf

 

[Lucumo]

PCtards shall play, ideally via emulation:

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996), Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Mario Bros 3. All three are TOP QUALITY.

Tomb Raider is very much a PC game. It's also where it sold most copies. I guess this is one of the better examples of historical revisionism.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

while any distinction between console and PC gaming has completely blurred.

Not really, it's usually pretty obvious when a game is made for PC or made for consoles. There just aren't many PC games getting made any more. Most new games are console games that you can play on PC. Most PC focussed games these days are indie.

Well, things are not clear anymore, apart the fact that now you see gamepad support everywhere.

I think however that the whole indie movement was mainly a PC thing, in particular at the beginning (mid '10s). Many of these indies were attempts to bring back old PC game genres, conceived to be played with keyboard and mouse. Indies on consoles where later ports, with "updated" interfaces made to accomodate gamepads.

 

[Nutmeg]

PCtards shall play, ideally via emulation:

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996),

What's wrong with the PC ports?

 

[Ash]

PCtards shall play, ideally via emulation:

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996), Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Mario Bros 3. All three are TOP QUALITY.

Tomb Raider is very much a PC game. It's also where it sold most copies. I guess this is one of the better examples of historical revisionism.

Yeah, you're engaging in one of the better examples of historical revisionism, fake news and stolen valor for sure.

First released on a console:

Tomb Raider is a 1996 action-adventure video game developed by Core Design and published by Eidos Interactive as the debut entry in the Tomb Raider media franchise. It was first released on the Sega Saturn,

Developed with a console as the target platform from the very start:

It was proposed by Gard to company head Jeremy Heath-Smith during a 1994 brainstorming session for game concepts for the then-upcoming PlayStation console.

As for sales figures, I can't find any concrete data either way. Did you pull that one out of your backside? Not that sales means anything at all here.

Why you and every retard that agreed with you would take issue with this, I don't fucking know. If a game released on PC first, any game, I would have thrown it under the PC gaming category. Console-first, then console category. That's generally how this works.

PCtards shall play, ideally via emulation:

Platformer: Tomb Raider 1 (1996),

What's wrong with the PC ports?

Trigger the monkeys: it's inferior. No in-game music, gotta fuck around tweaking, casual gamer save states, keyboard-only control.