Star Wars How on earth did anyone think KOTOR is an acceptable game

[Gregz]

I remember when it was released on PC, or maybe year or two later, I was playing Jedi Academy a lot, and once upon a time a buddy of mine brought me a disc with pirated version of kotor he thought I'd like it. After playing for like 30 minutes I was completely disgusted with the absolutely horrible gameplay of this piece of shit, and uninstalled it forever, didn't talk to that guy for the next month.

And yet, I look at the internet and the game was received very well, people still have huge nostalgia for it etc. wtf is this, explain yourself KOTORDS. Don't even try to tell me that "hurr it couldn't be done differently", because Jedi Knight 2, that gameplay of JA is only an evolution of is like 3 years older than KOTURD. Maybe it couldn't be done differently to satistfy average KOTURDER but let's be honest, down-syndrome children are rare thanks to widespread eugenic abortions, and so by 2020 there shouldn't be that many alive for them to post on forums about videogames.

Translation: You were a child and you liked Jedi Academy because it's a children's game, and KotOR was too mature for you.

What if I like both?

 

[Harry Easter]

Because Despite of Bastila AND Carth.

Fixed that, mate.

 

[curds]

KOTOR is just mediocre. Not really bad* but certainly not very good, either. *As far as popamole RPGs go.

I liked it more than Neverwinter Nights' OC but slightly less than DA:O. Couldn't be bothered finishing it. Still want to try KOTOR 2 one day.

I find it hard to believe people would give a shit about KOTOR if it didn't have the Star Wars logo slapped on it.

 

[Daemongar]

I didn't play KOTOR until about 3 or 4 years ago. Never played it when it came out - saw the original trilogy when it came out but was never some kind of Star Wars fan. That being said, KOTOR wasn't bad. I actually liked the game up until about the last 10% - then you become a light-saber wielding wrecking ball and the ending was poor (but what ending ain't.) Things I liked:

• Varied locations, loot, and companions who you were free to (under)utilize as you see fit.
• D20 System and the feats were handled ok
• Some level of non-linearity and side things to do
• Story wasn't bad or at least was varied enough
• The light side/dark side mechanic was interesting and while the game lacked any form of deep moral choices, it kinda made me want to play it a second time only as a sith
• The fact that your companions could be turned to the light or dark was novel and unique
• It was a story told in the Star Wars universe and had a pretty good backstory - while not going all fanservice on Darth Vader and everyone else

There was a lot to like. My problem is the game really turns into a visual novel once you get a light saber but overall it was an enjoyable experience. It was a solid 7.5 / 10 - maybe a Star Wars fan would rate it higher. After finishing the game, I pissed and moaned about the bad, but I have to admit that I played it all the way through and for the most part enjoyed the game.

 

[Tigranes]

It was an objectively bad game. The combat was Dungeon Siege-style screensaver, and the RPG formula was diluted and mechanised everywhere, like going from a pointillist painting to a factory of monkeys tapping dots on canvas. You still did everything you do in a real RPG, but in a more Progress Quest-y way.

However, I think for many of us it felt more fun and substantial than that at the time. A massive aspect of it is simply channeling Star Wars in a halfway competent manner. I'm no big Star Wars fan at all, but even if you don't really care hugely about it it brings so much accumulated cool factor, the ultimate comfort food of fantasy setting (which simultaneously could purport to be a a bit 'fresh' after years of high fantasy). And I for one still held hope at the time that Bioware the company, and the Bioware RPG formula, could continue to provide decent experiences, and that we could write off NWN1 as a blip.

It looks worse and worse in retrospect, because we now understand how RPGs could have gone in so many different, interesting ways, and that KOTOR really pushed boldly for the most watered down, soulless version. And even the story looks worse in retrospect largely because they copypasta laundered it in 5 minutes for Jade Empire (and because KOTOR2 did the same thing a lot better).

 

[Machocruz]

It's mostly consolefags who think it's so amazing. Look at what kinds of...."rpgs" they were playing before KOTOR (and Morrowind). KOTOR was hardcore grognard level of choice and consequences/reactivity compared to the JRPGs that shaped their standards and expectations.

 

[Funposter]

I liked it when I was 12 and also you can get a dark side Bastila gf

 

[urmom]

I remember when it was released on PC, or maybe year or two later, I was playing Jedi Academy a lot, and once upon a time a buddy of mine brought me a disc with pirated version of kotor he thought I'd like it. After playing for like 30 minutes I was completely disgusted with the absolutely horrible gameplay of this piece of shit, and uninstalled it forever, didn't talk to that guy for the next month.

And yet, I look at the internet and the game was received very well, people still have huge nostalgia for it etc. wtf is this, explain yourself KOTORDS. Don't even try to tell me that "hurr it couldn't be done differently", because Jedi Knight 2, that gameplay of JA is only an evolution of is like 3 years older than KOTURD. Maybe it couldn't be done differently to satistfy average KOTURDER but let's be honest, down-syndrome children are rare thanks to widespread eugenic abortions, and so by 2020 there shouldn't be that many alive for them to post on forums about videogames.

Translation: You were a child and you liked Jedi Academy because it's a children's game, and KotOR was too mature for you.

You are literally retarded. JA has amazing gameplay, KOTURD is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIIIT.

I prefer JA2. Deidranna was such a bitch!

 

[A horse of course]

I tried playing KoTOR on release and despised it. It looked like shit and felt janky, like some horrible half-baked mix of action and tactical combat. I refunded it (you could do this with PC games at EB back in the day) and decided to try the Xbox version, which I thought the game might be designed around or something. Still terrible. Tried to replay it about 6 years ago but got bored after the tutorial. Maybe one day...

 

[Desiderius]

I always had scattered memories of some strange game that I never could place, and had no idea I'd ever played KOTOR but sure enough I picked it up cheap last year and realized as I was playing it that this was finally the game I had been remembering. Kinda reminds me of Morrowind.

 

[Harthwain]

I like space fantasy and space westerns but SW should have been 1 movie or maybe 1 trilogy and never receive any sequels whatsoever. Maybe I'm too young to get it but I don't understand how the original movie got so much popularity that it's still a money printer to this day. Was it really that groundbreaking in the early 80s?

It's not that complicated:

• Space Knights are cool (lightsabers).
  
• Space Magic is cool (The Force).
• It's a well executed light-hearted action movie.
  
• The Brave Rebels (Americans) fight the Evil Empire (British). No, I am not joking - the Rebels have American accents and the Imperials have British accents. Also, the Empire has more "monarchistic" structure (Emperor Palpatine), while the Rebels are a whole group of people united by a common goal, with the intent of re-establishing the old, glorious, Republic. On one hand it plays well into the American mindset, on another it's universal enough for everybody else to get it too. This kind of inclusiveness is a big part of the Star Wars, in the sense that it can fit almost anywhere.
  
• It's technically a sci-fi, but in reality it's a fantasy in space. It being "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." only helps to sell the approach that everything can go.

Frankly, the single defining feature of Star Wars is The Force. Obi-wan Kenobi, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine (even Yoda) are the staple of Star Wars (well, you can throw in Han Solo too). Take out The Force and I doubt Star Wars would be half as successful.

I don't get how SW survived being a toy selling franchise during the prequels or how it's still ongoing after Disney butchered its world and lore to the point that even the biggest, most unwashed fanboys complained about it.

It's too big to fail. The original trilogy cemented its place in the collective consciousness.

 

[mogwaimon]

KOTOR was mindblowing back when my friend got an Xbox and it for Xmas when I was a teenager, but I played the game again like two years ago and it was, in retrospect, pretty shit. But it was enjoyable shit, good way to kill like 40 hours and have an adventure and swing lightsabers around. sometimes that's all you really need I guess.

Y'all are gonna kill me for this but that Brotherhood of Solomon mod wasn't completely terrible either. There's no real character progression at that point but the story was aight and just engaging enough to keep me interested. Not bad for a fan mod, but be prepared to see certain quirks of the game revealed, like when a character starts dialogue and displays the same head cocked sideways movement for the umpteenth time

 

[EldarEldrad]

KOTOR was my first cRPG back in the time and I still like it because nostalghia. Basically it is simplistic biowarean RPG with typical biowarean plot (everything is not as it seems, yeah, yeah), typical biowarean companions (personal dramas included) and typical biowarean structure. It is not bad game per se, but it is barely can interest new player nowadays.

Also combat system is weird, but have some funny points. For example, blaster weapons can be more effective than lightswords even versus Jedis if you play your cards right.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Only things that KotOR has going for it are that it's a complete product and that the worlds are more lively, but otherwise KotOR 2 > KotOR in every regard.

 

[Whisper]

KOTOR is horrible game.

 

[Whisper]

Typical Bioware.

 

[DalekFlay]

Basically it nailed the Star Wars vibe for the mainstream console crowd. Remember Western RPGs were just starting to become popular on consoles in that time. Throw in a massive franchise and a fairly traditional story and boom, mainstream success.

I think it's still somewhat enjoyable on PC if you're a SW fan, but it's definitely clunky and has a very banal story. You have to really love being in that world to a large degree to get anything from it. I also think the sequel is overrated on sites like this, because it has all the same gameplay issues and the OMG AMAZING WRITING aspect is a bit overblown. Kreia is a morally grey force user, oh my god my brain cannot contain the amazement I feel.

 

[wahrk]

Bioware did a great job capturing the feel of classic Star Wars while still having its own unique identity, and that’s all most people wanted. Remember, it came out a year after Attack of the Clones, so the bad taste of the prequels was still fresh in everyone’s mouths.

The combat system was nothing special but it was just fun to be a Jedi, flying around the galaxy fighting the Sith, upgrading your party and completing all sorts of quests. It was all about the feel and the sense of adventure.

I do agree that you’re not likely to find it very interesting if you didn’t play it back in the day and have nostalgia for it. In hindsight the story and dialogue is really quite simplistic and juvenile (especially when compared to the second game). TSL aged much better in that regard and is much more interesting to replay now. But I still have a soft spot for the first game. I would bet that for a lot of people it was their first introduction to RPGs.

 

[garren]

I never understood the appeal. The game felt like a chore to play and was boring, after a few planets I started to feel like quitting so I rushed through to the end (back then I felt compelled to end games I've started, nowadays if a game doesn't appeal to me I'll just quit, why waste time.) The only thing I even remember from the game was the revelation of "No john you are the demons", and some bald baddie I think, did you even kill him in the end can't remember.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

I had high hopes back then but never liked that game. Everything felt so stiff and plastic-like, the story was boring and totally predictable, the characters didn't feel interesting at all, combat was uninspired... a very unmemorable game to me. There was nothing left of the magic and atmosphere I like in the original Star Wars movies, the game felt soulless like the three prequel movies to me. Strangely I found part two much more interesting, at least in the story departement. At least it had interesting characters and felt much different from the first part. Many seem to dislike it exactly because of that.

 

[Nano]

I think a lot of the people here complaining about the story only reached the light side ending. It's bland as fuck, and same goes for the whole light side path. Play dark side, the ending is actually awesome.

 

[Ocelot]

I like space fantasy and space westerns but SW should have been 1 movie or maybe 1 trilogy and never receive any sequels whatsoever. Maybe I'm too young to get it but I don't understand how the original movie got so much popularity that it's still a money printer to this day. Was it really that groundbreaking in the early 80s?

It's not that complicated:

• Space Knights are cool (lightsabers).
  
• Space Magic is cool (The Force).
• It's a well executed light-hearted action movie.
  
• The Brave Rebels (Americans) fight the Evil Empire (British). No, I am not joking - the Rebels have American accents and the Imperials have British accents. Also, the Empire has more "monarchistic" structure (Emperor Palpatine), while the Rebels are a whole group of people united by a common goal, with the intent of re-establishing the old, glorious, Republic. On one hand it plays well into the American mindset, on another it's universal enough for everybody else to get it too. This kind of inclusiveness is a big part of the Star Wars, in the sense that it can fit almost anywhere.
  
• It's technically a sci-fi, but in reality it's a fantasy in space. It being "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." only helps to sell the approach that everything can go.

Frankly, the single defining feature of Star Wars is The Force. Obi-wan Kenobi, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine (even Yoda) are the staple of Star Wars (well, you can throw in Han Solo too). Take out The Force and I doubt Star Wars would be half as successful.

I don't get how SW survived being a toy selling franchise during the prequels or how it's still ongoing after Disney butchered its world and lore to the point that even the biggest, most unwashed fanboys complained about it.

It's too big to fail. The original trilogy cemented its place in the collective consciousness.

I disagree, the Empire is based on Nazi Germany. Stormtroopers, grey/brown uniforms, Vader's helmet, speciesism etc. SW isn't sci-fi IMO. A sci-fi franchise would explain how lightsabers work, how the force works, why hyperspace exists, how Luke or Rey got powerful quickly while Anakin didn't etc. The prequels tried to explain some "space magic" concepts but the fans didn't like it e.g: Midichlorians.

I think a lot of the people here complaining about the story only reached the light side ending. It's bland as fuck, and same goes for the whole light side path. Play dark side, the ending is actually awesome.

Taking the story into account, I'd say KOTOR 1's light side ending is the best while KOTOR 2's dark side ending makes more sense. Revan going through all this effort to redeem himself and become a Jedi is more fitting IMO. The Exile's story feels like a journey towards becoming a Sith Lord and killing Kreia (more or less her mentor) is the culmination of this journey.

 

[Ranarama]

KOTOR was a highly innovative game that anticipated features of MOBAs and Autobattlers years before anyone else.

 

[Jvegi]

I've finished the first Kotor in four 10 hour sessions. It was amazing. Then. I was also a kid.

The cinematic style was something new for that time. It worked for me, even though I knew the gameplay was lacking. Someone here said it was a worse NWN. NWN tried to be graphically impressive and it failed miserably.

The second one is much better in every way. I have played it for straight 26 hours once.

 

[Harthwain]

I disagree, the Empire is based on Nazi Germany. Stormtroopers, grey/brown uniforms, Vader's helmet, speciesism etc.

I concur.

SW isn't sci-fi IMO. A sci-fi franchise would explain how lightsabers work, how the force works, why hyperspace exists, how Luke or Rey got powerful quickly while Anakin didn't etc. The prequels tried to explain some "space magic" concepts but the fans didn't like it e.g: Midichlorians.

I meant the theme, rather than the substance (spaceships, lasers, interplanetary travel, aliens, etc.). Maybe "space fantasy" is a better term. By the way, you reminded me of Star Trek's techno babble.