How to fix Gnomes, Hafllings, Orcs, and Elves.

[catfood]

I just spent 10 months playing an Orc on WoW classic, vs. LOTS of people who chose to play female elves...

Fixed.

 

[Serus]

Halflings & Dwarves are great, but really what's the point of gnomes.

Simple really. Dwarfs are Scottish or Germans. Halflings are English (or at least they should be, that's how Tolkien made them). That leaves Gnomes and everyone knows who they are.

 

[catfood]

Halflings & Dwarves are great, but really what's the point of gnomes.

Simple really. Dwarfs are Scottish or Germans. Halflings are English (or at least they should be, that's how Tolkien made them). That leaves Gnomes and everyone knows who they are.

The dwarfs being scottish is a Blizzard invention. Didn't Tolkien envision them rather as (((dwarves)))?

 

[luj1]

Dark Sun's cannibal halflings.

Totally forgot about that

I did some reading about the history of Dark Sun, isn't it interesting that halflings once ruled Athas (when it was all water). Halflings and thri-kreen being the eldest of races on Athas

Arcanum gnomes still haven't been surpassed.

That too.

I liked Gnomes in Nwn 1 too

 

[Ol' Willy]

Talking of space fantasy: W40k orcs. Just WAAAAGH

 

[Latro]

Halflings and thri-kreen being the eldest of races on Athas

I like Thri-Keen a lot simply because they are the most alien and offer unique-ish mechanics with the four arm thing. I think mutants and genuinely un-human races deserve more slots than the standard fantasy racial cliches.

 

[TemplarGR]

You can't fix them. They are what they are. What we need to do is stop using them altogether and create some new mythical races instead. I am bored to death with thinner people and shorter people and green people. One of the good things in weeaboo rpgs, is that they make some insane race designs in various games. Now THAT is fantasy. Relying on Tolkien tropes for decades has made western crpgs stale in that department.

 

[luj1]

Latro TemplarGR More originality is always good. I always use humanoid variants in Star Trek as an example of dullness.

 

[Serus]

On a more serious note.
Gameplay wise those popular non-human races have little sense in CRPGs. They are simply not different enough from humans. In most systems the differences boils to some slight changes to a few stats, some minor adjustments to some mostly irrelevant - in CRPG - secondary stuff. Almost all of those could be attributed to differences between humans themselves anyway.
In D&D-base CRPGs the biggest differences are what? Darkvision? Rarely plays a role in practice and most non-humans have it anyway. Size? It does play some role if implemented right in CRPG but at most would, guarantee 1 non-human + 1 small race. There also used to be a big difference coming from age/level limits but that was very long time ago.
If different races would be implement so that the world and its people reacted in significantly different ways to different races, that would make the races relevant. But that is not the case. Besides, most differences could be again attributed to different races of humans.
So in the end, all those elves/dwarfs, etc. in computer RPGs are just mostly about feeling nice. Look, I'm a dwarf! It mostly doesn't matter except the feels. Which is nice but some real differences in playing different races would be much better.
It would be really nice to, if we have to have inhuman races - for them to be really different gameplay wise. The differences in size as mentioned can be potentially one of those differences. A flying playable race would be different enough - if someone would be able to devise a system around it. And more, not just humans but with bigger beards or no beards.

 

[mondblut]

So the question is, is there something wrong with how these races are implemented, and if there is, what should be done about it?

Halflings are the go-to race for thieves, and thieves usually suck and are the one primary class most people easily do without.

And gnomes... what's gnomes?

 

[luj1]

Gameplay wise those popular non-human races have little sense in CRPGs. They are simply not different enough from humans. In most systems the differences boils to some slight changes to a few stats, some minor adjustments to some mostly irrelevant - in CRPG - secondary stuff. Almost all of those could be attributed to differences between humans themselves anyway.

Imo give races inherent stats, inherent growth rates and inherent passives from the get go, they need to feel different and unique enough to differentiate. +2 Dex or -2 Str doesn't really mean anything like you pointed out. Like, basic movement speed can be a huge factor in identifying a race.

 

[Norfleet]

Other suggestions I'd have to fix the other races would be to make Orcs almost entirely brutes and savages, kind of like how they're implemented in Battle Brothers. Have a few Outcast Orcs and their Shamans/Chieftans be intelligent, but due away with them entirely as a playable race.

I think if we have to do away with them as a playable race, "fixing" them becomes irrelevant. But frankly, there's nothing actually wrong with orcs. They're just a species that happens to inhabit some rather marginal terrain with resulting cultural practices that brings them into conflict with humans.

Elves should also be changed to be nonplayable races. They should be incredibly rare, aloof creatures, with a view of the world that essentially borders on apathy.

Elves as a strange bunch because HOW DOES THEIR CIVILIZATION EVEN FUNCTION? They're known for their high-quality craftsmanship in both metal and wood. But have you ever heard of an elven farmer? An elven miner? An elven lumberjack? Who, exactly, is performing these decidedly less-than-refined activities that support the functioning of their civilization? Who disposes of all the elf-poop? Have you ever seen an elven plumber? I mean, we know humans dispose of their poop by throwing in it in the streets or at each other, but clearly, elves are too refined for such things. But everyone poops. Where does all the elf poop go? Elf lairs may vary in scope, but they're always beautiful places that don't smell like piss and shit. That doesn't just happen.

So, what does this tell us? Is there an oppressed underclass of elves, or maybe slaves, that somehow keeps thus going? Are elves actually secretly brutal slavers that steal human children and enslave them? Because THAT is certainly not out of line with traditional mythological portrayals of elves, that totally steal human babies. Does the orc-elf conflict actually originate from this sordid history, like orcs are actually the escaped slave caste, or perhaps it was the elves that started it by stealing orc babies?

 

[Serus]

You can't fix them. They are what they are. What we need to do is stop using them altogether and create some new mythical races instead. I am bored to death with thinner people and shorter people and green people. One of the good things in weeaboo rpgs, is that they make some insane race designs in various games. Now THAT is fantasy. Relying on Tolkien tropes for decades has made western crpgs stale in that department.

Well, the thing about the weeaboo crpgs is that those races are still usually no different mechanically. They aren't creative - just weird for the sake of weirdness. But then I haven't played many weeaboo games so maybe there are some hidden gems there. But I agree with the sentiment. More of diversity (no, not of THAT kind) would be nice.

 

[Norfleet]

And gnomes... what's gnomes?

Gnomes are basically just nerdier dwarves. Like dwarves, they're short, live in holes, and build things. They may or may not have beards. They build these little machines, but unlike dwarf machines, these machines are downright nerdy. Gnomes are just nerd dwarves. I wouldn't honestly be surprised if gnomes were actually hybrid elf-dwarves, either.

 

[Norfleet]

Talking of space fantasy: W40k orcs. Just WAAAAGH

40K orks are the only people who are actually happy with the universe they're living in.

 

[laclongquan]

Gnomes overlapped with halflings. They really should fix that~

Also need to fix is the size (dis)advantage. Like extra bonus to Knock-down and Force attack. When my Enlarged Yuanti attack a tiny Halfling/Gnome, there should be a clear difference.

 

[Ol' Willy]

40K orks are the only people who are actually happy with the universe they're living in.

Yeah, like, let's invade Eye of Terror to have some fun! Battling for eternity!

 

[Ol' Willy]

One of the good things in weeaboo rpgs, is that they make some insane race designs in various games. Now THAT is fantasy. Relying on Tolkien tropes for decades has made western crpgs stale in that department.

Check out Planescape D&D setting. Sadly, there's almost no games using it.

 

[thesecret1]

All of those races are shit if used poorly. If your setting's halflings are just manlets that like to steal, then of course they are shit. If your elves are immortal douchebags that love nature and abhor all metallurgy yet SOMEHOW always come to battle in full plate, then of course everyone will hate them. The whole point of having different races in your settings is to actually make shit different, not to have several different flavours of humans (you can just have an all-human settings with different cultures instead, if that's all you want). The issue is that most settings just cram in the standard races just because and don't give them further thought.

Example of shit use of races: You're in a multicultural city where members of every race are and carry on their bussiness. They all act like regular humans and save for one muh racism side quest, the only thing the different for each race is minor alterations to crunch (orcs get buff to STR, debuff to INT, that kinda shit).
Example of more thought out kind of world building: "I want to have people living underground, inside mountains. Humans cannot do this because they need sunlight and wouldn't voluntarily spend all their lives crammed in underground passages. Ergo, I need a new race, with beliefs and behavior to fit. I also want to have a long-lived, ancient people that is slowly dying out due to low reproduction rates. Again, I cannot use human. Again I therefore need a new race. Next, I want thieving, cowardly people. No need for a new race, I will just use gypsies." etc.

 

[Citizen]

Hobbits are chill dudes living in super cozy holes tho, very solid choice of race to larp as. If you're not an irl manlet with insane inferiority complex that is, this thread is a good detector btw

 

[Lyric Suite]

Halflings & Dwarves are great, but really what's the point of gnomes.

Simple really. Dwarfs are Scottish or Germans. Halflings are English (or at least they should be, that's how Tolkien made them). That leaves Gnomes and everyone knows who they are.

The dwarfs being scottish is a Blizzard invention. Didn't Tolkien envision them rather as (((dwarves)))?

(((they))) aren't known for their warrior skills so that idea doesn't make sense to me. I remember reading they were based on some kind of Norse mythology but don't quote me on that as the last time i checked was eons ago.

(((Gnomes))) however...

 

[catfood]

Halflings & Dwarves are great, but really what's the point of gnomes.

Simple really. Dwarfs are Scottish or Germans. Halflings are English (or at least they should be, that's how Tolkien made them). That leaves Gnomes and everyone knows who they are.

The dwarfs being scottish is a Blizzard invention. Didn't Tolkien envision them rather as (((dwarves)))?

(((they))) aren't known for their warrior skills so that idea doesn't make sense to me. I remember reading they were based on some kind of Norse mythology but don't quote me on that as the last time i checked was eons ago.

(((Gnomes))) however...

It's been a while since I've read the book (and I don't intend to ever pick it up again since it's more boring than watching paint dry), but weren't the dwarves depicted as being very greedy and obsessed with wealth, which led to their downfall? Also they are hook-nosed and isolationist.

 

[JarlFrank]

Stop using generic fantasy races.

Easiest solution.

 

[Desiderius]

Orcs shouldn't be playable races.

Are the short races disliked? I had no idea. I used them a lot in all the games i played, but not for a main character position, 'cause i don't want to identify as a manlet lmao.

With that said, the reason halflings exist is because of the lore. Why have an halfling thief when you can have a human thief? Because of the character traits attached to the race. Because i read The Hobbit and i have a fondness for the little guys. I mean seriously, does nobody care about this stuff anymore?

They care too much. The burden of the past weighs heavily on the Modern.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/165081.The_Anxiety_of_Influence

They've decided to bite the ankles of giants rather than stand on their shoulders.

 

[Desiderius]

Stop using generic fantasy races.

Easiest solution.

The races themselves are the opposite of generic. The (ab)use on the other hand, well there is your problem.

Nonjudgmentalism is nihilism with plausible deniability.